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IRTEHWINTBH
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Posted - 2005.12.27 13:39:00 -
[31]
My opinion and point of view:
Good Raven Pilot Vs Good BlasterThron Pilot = Raven pilot Wins EVERY TIME!
Stop saying "Raven is Fine" and "Missiles have fligth time blah blah", Cause that shows that you have no clue what your talking about, AT ALL!
Raven is ultimaltly the best overall PwnMobil ... Again...
At long range, raven will just tank your damage and wait for the cruise/torps to r*pe you.
BlasterThron has no chance at all vs. a skilled Raven pilot anymore...
Seriously, how can a ship/weapons that was designed for extreme close range ¦berrap*age, be unable to kill a raven pilot, even if he started right beside him?
Where's the balance in that?
And no, its not the setup, its not the skills, its not the pilot... Darth solo and many others have proved that.. So tell me, where's the balance in that?
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Fire Hawk
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Posted - 2005.12.27 14:09:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Fire Hawk on 27/12/2005 14:09:33
 Originally by: Sarmaul
Some more numbers:
Tempest DPS @ 5k with Dual 650mm II, 3 damage mods + drones: ~740.
Raven DPS with Siege II, 3 damage mods + drones: ~740.
Raven DPS (above setup) vs a Tempest, 3 damage mods + drones: ~650.
It CAN be done in a well-setup tempest, but you have to be as close to the raven as possible.
It's not only a DPS matter. If u want to compare DPS, a blasterthron would break in 10 pieces ur Tempest and kill a raven. But it's not.
It's simply the tanking capabilities. You can not tank as a raven do with a gunboat, simple. While u can tank 800-1000 HARDENED HP every 4 sec, u can deal full damage.
Raven is just unbeatable cause it's simply the only ship that can do massive damage with massive tanking at same time.
If u beaten a raven on a 1on1 with your tempest, simply because he was to dumb to use it. 
_______________________________________________________
ATUK French Wing - Fear the french touch
Thanks to our enemies, they made us strong. |
Kaleeb
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Posted - 2005.12.27 14:11:00 -
[33]
I havent had much luck with my mega against ravens but when using the tempest I have average skills with the temp and seem to do pretty well using:
6x 650's
1x heavy nos
1x med smarty
100mn ab II
1x 20k scram
1x sensor booster II
1x cap booster
1x webber
2x large reps
3x hardners
2x damage mods
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darth solo
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Posted - 2005.12.27 14:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: IRTEHWINTBH
Seriously, how can a ship/weapons that was designed for extreme close range ¦berrap*age, be unable to kill a raven pilot, even if he started right beside him?
Where's the balance in that?
And no, its not the setup, its not the skills, its not the pilot... Darth solo and many others have proved that.. So tell me, where's the balance in that?
Yes, i think all u have said is correct, but more so on my starting position which iv highlighted... at 5k we say "GO". i dont even have a AB fitted. im at perfect range.. so it only would get WORSE for me the farther out i am and having to approach.
The point of the post is a 34million skill point PVPer specialised in a tempest and with years of experience seems now to have pretty much no chance against a good raven pilot.. And from the other posts it seems that the Mega pliots have the same probs.
I also have artillary specialisation 5, the same problems are also encountered with using 1400s.... i will lose and whats the point sniping when i cant hold.
Ack this is all making me very sad WTS darth solo .
d solo.
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IRTEHWINTBH
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Posted - 2005.12.27 14:54:00 -
[35]
Originally by: darth solo
Originally by: IRTEHWINTBH
Seriously, how can a ship/weapons that was designed for extreme close range ¦berrap*age, be unable to kill a raven pilot, even if he started right beside him?
Where's the balance in that?
And no, its not the setup, its not the skills, its not the pilot... Darth solo and many others have proved that.. So tell me, where's the balance in that?
Yes, i think all u have said is correct, but more so on my starting position which iv highlighted... at 5k we say "GO". i dont even have a AB fitted. im at perfect range.. so it only would get WORSE for me the farther out i am and having to approach.
The point of the post is a 34million skill point PVPer specialised in a tempest and with years of experience seems now to have pretty much no chance against a good raven pilot.. And from the other posts it seems that the Mega pliots have the same probs.
I also have artillary specialisation 5, the same problems are also encountered with using 1400s.... i will lose and whats the point sniping when i cant hold.
Ack this is all making me very sad WTS darth solo.
d solo.
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Sandokan
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:02:00 -
[36]
again the whining against Caldari.
So my 36 mil skillpoints are not alowed to kill a tempest or a Mega. Why should i bother to train more skills?
cheers
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:02:00 -
[37]
Hmmm darth, I just saw your setup... . Dual 650mms do pretty much the same damage as 800mms for less fitting reqs and better tracking, and shield tanking a tempest with it's awful cpu makes me some more.
Try this and tell me how it works out:
Dual 650mm II with EMP x 6
Heavy Dim Nos x 2
AB II x 1
Faint 20k Scrambler x 1
Fleeting Stasis Web x 1
Heavy Elec Cap Booster with 800 x 1
Large Accom Rep x 2
Energised Adaptive Nano Membrane II x 2
Gyrostab II x 2
Fits with 19pg, 80.5cpu, 1 midslot, and needs advanced weapon upgrades 5.
And yes, we all know 1400mms completely suck 
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:03:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Sandokan
again the whining against Caldari.
So my 36 mil skillpoints are not alowed to kill a tempest or a Mega. Why should i bother to train more skills?
cheers
actually it's more "why can't a 35m sp tempest pilot have a chance in hell of beating a 35m sp raven pilot?".
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
IRTEHWINTBH
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:06:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Sandokan
again the whining against Caldari.
So my 36 mil skillpoints are not alowed to kill a tempest or a Mega. Why should i bother to train more skills?
cheers
actually it's more "why can't a 35m sp tempest pilot have a chance in hell of beating a 35m sp raven pilot?".
Exactly... Sandokan, why dont you read before posting?...
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Jenna H4ze
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:07:00 -
[40]
cos he's an ass.
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darth solo
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:26:00 -
[41]
Well Sarmaul.. im not sure what others think, but i would say the tempest is meant to be shield tanked, im sure the fleet tempest has a shield increase as its major advantage.
Also using 650s would not be the answer, as iv said before i cannot out-tank a raven. the only way i can seem to overcome a good raven pilot is by outdamaging him...
i could take out the NOS and web and fit a heavy inj... this may be the answer, but would give me big problems with frigs.
I have no real issues with fittings, so using a lesser gun than a 800 would serve no purpose in this test, as the target is also webbed.
this is far from a moan, im looking to highlight the situation so we can share ideas and keep the game competitive.
d solo.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:38:00 -
[42]
Originally by: darth solo
Well Sarmaul.. im not sure what others think, but i would say the tempest is meant to be shield tanked, im sure the fleet tempest has a shield increase as its major advantage.
Ah the bane of the minmatar - high shields, but not enough midslots and CPU to shield tank properly.
Originally by: darth solo
Also using 650s would not be the answer, as iv said before i cannot out-tank a raven. the only way i can seem to overcome a good raven pilot is by outdamaging him...
There's more than one way to skin a cat, much like there's more than one way to beat a raven's tank. If you can't outdamage it's tank, then you need to stop it tanking :). A raven has huge difficulty fitting 2 heavy nos along with siege launchers and a cap booster (iirc it can't actually fit any, even with arbalast siege and an RCU II), meaning there is very little chance of being nossed back. Free cap for you, and his tank will collapse quicker.
If you activate your 2 nos with a 6 second interval, it will mess with his cap recharge too.
Quote:
i could take out the NOS and web and fit a heavy inj... this may be the answer, but would give me big problems with frigs.
Nonono, you fit all 3 :). Nos + Cap Injector + Web (with my setup you have enough for 2 webs + a scram). You now have a double-webbed scrambled frigate with 0 cap.
Quote:
I have no real issues with fittings, so using a lesser gun than a 800 would serve no purpose in this test, as the target is also webbed.
I only suggested dual 650mms as they are the only guns that fit on the setup I posted (besides dual 425mms, but I wouldn't insult your intelligence by suggesting those).
Quote:
this is far from a moan, im looking to highlight the situation so we can share ideas and keep the game competitive.
same here - there is a thread called RMR Tempest Tanking (eve-search.com it) that had some proper discussion in it - well worth a read.
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Sandokan
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:53:00 -
[43]
Quote:
There's more than one way to skin a cat, much like there's more than one way to beat a raven's tank. If you can't outdamage it's tank, then you need to stop it tanking :). A raven has huge difficulty fitting 2 heavy nos along with siege launchers and a cap booster (iirc it can't actually fit any, even with arbalast siege and an RCU II), meaning there is very little chance of being nossed back. Free cap for you, and his tank will collapse quicker.
Wrong!
I can fit 6 Arbi Siege and a Nos easy and if i find some better named stuf, i can even fit 2 Nos, i'm only 29 CPU short
And thats with Advanced Weapon Upgrade on 3, so i'm sure i could fit 2 nos with easy ones trained a lvl up
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.27 15:58:00 -
[44]
A Raven with 6 Arbalest Siege, an XL Clarity ward and a Cap Booster has 175pg and 369cpu left. With an RCU II, it has 1956.25pg and 354cpu. Heavy Nos takes up 2000pg.
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:02:00 -
[45]
Torps need splash damage reintroduced or an arming time. >_>
King Liu is RIGHT!!
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Sandokan
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:08:00 -
[46]
give me a url to place the pic, easy to profe.
BTW i even use a XL Booster tech2, and i still have about 2000 powergrid in reserve
Ofcourse i have the needed engineering skill maxed out, lol
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:15:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Sandokan
give me a url to place the pic, easy to profe.
www.eve-files.com
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Hugh Ruka
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:16:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Liu Kaskakka
Torps need splash damage reintroduced or an arming time. >_>
yeah and guns need also charge travel time ...
honestly splash damage is stupid, you cannot afford to use splash damage weapons in empire, too high a chance you'll hit somethin you do not want to.
but arming time is ok. then just make the raven a bit agile so it can actualy keep distance to shoot.
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Removed due to offensive content - Laqum
I realy liked my signature. Oh well ... |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:18:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Sarmaul on 27/12/2005 16:21:45
Originally by: Sandokan
give me a url to place the pic, easy to profe.
BTW i even use a XL Booster tech2, and i still have about 2000 powergrid in reserve
Ofcourse i have the needed engineering skill maxed out, lol
with a cap booster?
edit: Proof
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Sandokan
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:20:00 -
[50]
http://www.eve-files.com/media/12/2005.12.27.16.02.48.png
Only need a named XL shield booster and i can fit the second Nos
Cheers
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IRTEHWINTBH
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:24:00 -
[51]
Edited by: IRTEHWINTBH on 27/12/2005 16:23:51
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
one thing, why do ppl 90% scream nerf instead of boost the looser ?
I dont... i didnt intend to at least.. Boost Large Blasters Imo.. no idea when it comes to large AC's ..
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:25:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Sandokan
http://www.eve-files.com/media/12/2005.12.27.16.02.48.png
Only need a named XL shield booster and i can fit the second Nos
Cheers
you seem to be ignoring that I said with a cap booster, and you forgot to mention you have 4 pdus fitted
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:35:00 -
[53]
Multispec II ftw
sgb
(work it out, you tank with your lows in a tempy, he tanks with his mids. You can fit more ecm than him)
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Hugh Ruka
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:38:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Sandokan
http://www.eve-files.com/media/12/2005.12.27.16.02.48.png
Only need a named XL shield booster and i can fit the second Nos
Cheers
you seem to be ignoring that I said with a cap booster, and you forgot to mention you have 4 pdus fitted
and only one nos, with 19cpu left ...
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Removed due to offensive content - Laqum
I realy liked my signature. Oh well ... |
Sandokan
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:50:00 -
[55]
Sure...
I also forgot to tell ya that all harderners are Gistii even as the amp
The point is that with dual 650 (EMP) you need first get in your optimal range.
In that time you already getting hit alot.
And Raven is the master of shield tank, it starts with 6k shield (basic) and it has a midslot more.
I agree my fitting is very exspensive, but it can realy tank alot (still need to find a better shield booster, lol, but if the prices gets some lower, i will). The BCS is as good as 2 normals so i only use 1.
Its even possible to remove the sensor booster and add a small gistii shield booster (nice toy)
So what i mean to say is that short range ships takes to much dmg befor the even can hit, the extra shield bonus the raven has toward the Mega is hugh.
Tempest is very hard to get a good tank on it.
Btw what if the raven fits 1 multi spectral ECM, the last path changed alot.
cheers
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:52:00 -
[56]
what sarmaul said,
its not that easy to fit a raven on tranq.
- u need a backup arrays - as every1 ;)
- u need a sensor booster, as the raven has a rlly ****ty locktime, and without a sensor booster will it take like 20secs to lock a ceptor, or 15? way too long, for sure.
- u also need an ab atleast, as the raven like a real caldari and a close range ship, is sluggish as ****.
- u need a cap booster these days, simply mandatory.
all that leaves u with 3 medslots for tanking, and 4 lowslots for dmg or tanking or whatever.
u have definately no chance to fit heavy nos, so mediums will have todo it - while they disable frigs, they wont help ur cap much.
u could, maybe, get rid of the sensor booster, but ull regret it when u meet crusiers, or haulers, and when can u face a lonely bs?
and u know what? theres not even a damn scrambler onboard
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.12.27 16:55:00 -
[57]
while the raven at the same time, lacks the longrange/fleet ability ;)
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Sandokan
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Posted - 2005.12.27 17:02:00 -
[58]
Though this was about 1 against 1!
Fleet is a other thing.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.12.27 17:09:00 -
[59]
i read the raven is overpowered and blabla, not anything bout a 1v1?
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IRTEHWINTBH
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Posted - 2005.12.27 17:27:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
i read the raven is overpowered and blabla, not anything bout a 1v1?
Wtf? 0_o
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