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xKillaH	Posted - 2005.12.27 17:32:00 - [61] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig I might be totally off road here but what about 2 launchers with defenders? Cud it be worth testing? well, at 5km defenders are useless against raven with torps + that u'll have to activate the launchers each time the raven fires. sooo it's not a good idea Need a Sig? Check Gallery
Nifel	Posted - 2005.12.27 17:47:00 - [62] I had this really strange vision of a tempest with 7 gunpoints, pg to support it, 6 medslots and 5 lowslots and enough cpu to properly shield tank it along with a boost to cap regen. "We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:00:00 - [63] "I had this really strange vision of a tempest with 7 gunpoints, pg to support it, 6 medslots and 5 lowslots and enough cpu to properly shield tank it along with a boost to cap regen." It already has enough cpu to 'properly shield tank' -- 125 cpu of difference between Tempest and Raven, but fitting 7x tech.2 projectile turrets costs 150-180 cpu less than 6x tech.2 siege launchers. So with identical slot layout would be actually better off than the "best" shield tanker, in that respect -.o Both cap recharge and size for Tempest and Raven is identical too, so doubt much of boost here is needed... Other than that sounds nice, though suspect it'd have Megathron pilots up in arms if it happened :s
ro prefect	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:11:00 - [64] The point of a raven is to be strong against other battleships as they do practically no damage to smaller ships and they can't mine like the other battleships. The only thing a raven can do well is kill other battleships and now people want to nerf that? Why not just get rid of the ship completely. Or lets just have one single battleship type that all races use so no one can complain that one is better then the other. I personally regret going with a raven as it is so specialized. I wish I went for an Apoc instead so I would have more options of things I could do with the ship.
LUKEC	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:18:00 - [65] Originally by: ro prefect The point of a raven is to be strong against other battleships as they do practically no damage to smaller ships and they can't mine like the other battleships. The only thing a raven can do well is kill other battleships and now people want to nerf that? Why not just get rid of the ship completely. Or lets just have one single battleship type that all races use so no one can complain that one is better then the other. I personally regret going with a raven as it is so specialized. I wish I went for an Apoc instead so I would have more options of things I could do with the ship. Mining with bs is crime and ccp should issue health warning... as 2x MDCM II fill cargo full... so you have to drop ore out every 10s... Mining has nothing to do with pvp. Raven can kill smaller stuff better than any other bs that has comparable range. For instance try hitting deimos at 1km with 425mm railgun. Or godforbid, inty. Yes cruises do 30dmg to inty that is orbiting without mwd. That actually kills inty better than any 1400mm/425mm/800mm, dual 425mm/neutron/electron blaster. They don't hit at all. Unless you fit 2 webs, but then cruises hurt too. Apoc is probably most useless bs except for mining or baiting, but there domi perform good enough too. And if you think apoc would give you more options... time to meet thorax :) HatePeace LoveWar[ATUK] > they ebayed the bs for grain
IRTEHWINTBH	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:19:00 - [66] Originally by: ro prefect The point of a raven is to be strong against other battleships as they do practically no damage to smaller ships and they can't mine like the other battleships. The only thing a raven can do well is kill other battleships and now people want to nerf that? Why not just get rid of the ship completely. Or lets just have one single battleship type that all races use so no one can complain that one is better then the other. I personally regret going with a raven as it is so specialized. I wish I went for an Apoc instead so I would have more options of things I could do with the ship. Are you serious? So its just "FINE" that the Raven is Kill ALL other bs's huh? Omfg... Please feck off with that will ya? A Close Range BlasterThron with Ebil Ion's/Neutron's Should be able to kill, or at least be able in some way to kill it.. But no... Not even a close range tempest... Or long range snipe vs. snipe ship.. now **** and rethink what you just said. Its not supposed to be a single man PWNMobile ffs!
Kristoffer	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:19:00 - [67] Originally by: ro prefect The point of a raven is to be strong against other battleships as they do practically no damage to smaller ships and they can't mine like the other battleships. The only thing a raven can do well is kill other battleships and now people want to nerf that? Why not just get rid of the ship completely. Or lets just have one single battleship type that all races use so no one can complain that one is better then the other. I personally regret going with a raven as it is so specialized. I wish I went for an Apoc instead so I would have more options of things I could do with the ship. What raven are you flying? I have NO problem killing or forcing interceptors and other frigs / cruisers to run away or popping them with my torps. The whole "no damage to smaller ships" is bs when you can hit orbiting ceptors with torps that do 30 - 50 damage x 6 plus drones and nos them.
IRTEHWINTBH	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:23:00 - [68] Originally by: Kristoffer Originally by: ro prefect The point of a raven is to be strong against other battleships as they do practically no damage to smaller ships and they can't mine like the other battleships. The only thing a raven can do well is kill other battleships and now people want to nerf that? Why not just get rid of the ship completely. Or lets just have one single battleship type that all races use so no one can complain that one is better then the other. I personally regret going with a raven as it is so specialized. I wish I went for an Apoc instead so I would have more options of things I could do with the ship. What raven are you flying? I have NO problem killing or forcing interceptors and other frigs / cruisers to run away or popping them with my torps. The whole "no damage to smaller ships" is bs when you can hit orbiting ceptors with torps that do 30 - 50 damage x 6 plus drones and nos them. Exactly... she has no idea whats she's talking about... at all...
ro prefect	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:29:00 - [69] Edited by: ro prefect on 27/12/2005 18:33:39 So a raven hits for 30-50 (which is what I do). How much do other BS hit them for? The raven is the only BS I have used. Also, you still can't mine in a raven. I know you will say well who the heck wants to mine. Well if I had an option of a BS that can fight well and mine or a BS that can only fight well then I would take the first one. Then you have ammo space limitations making it hard to go into 0.0 unless you stay near a station with a factory where you can build more missiles. And, I admit, I am still relatively new so give me a little break if I have this completely wrong. I am still learning. * edit * Okay, I should not have jumped into this thread as I do not know what I am talking about. I admit that I am talking mostly out of my butt. My apologies. Before RMR, all I read in the forums was that Raven was nerfed to death, Raven sucks, and I started getting depressed that I trained for a Raven. This topic has made me feel a little better about my decision.
IRTEHWINTBH	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:34:00 - [70] Edited by: IRTEHWINTBH on 27/12/2005 18:34:27 Originally by: ro prefect So a raven hits for 30-50 (which is what I do). How much do other BS hit them for? The raven is the only BS I have used. Also, you still can't mine in a raven. I know you will say well who the heck wants to mine. Well if I had an option of a BS that can fight well and mine or a BS that can only fight well then I would take the first one. Then you have ammo space limitations making it hard to go into 0.0 unless you stay near a station with a factory where you can build more missiles. And, I admit, I am still relatively new so give me a little break if I have this completely wrong. I am still learning. Hitting a frig at point blank range with Megapulses/Tachyons/425 rail/350/dual 250/and so on, is kinda = No chance in H'll EDIT: I see.. np, ill redraw my shout-outs.
ro prefect	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:37:00 - [71] Originally by: IRTEHWINTBH Hitting a frig at point blank range with Megapulses/Tachyons/425 rail/350/dual 250/and so on, is kinda = No chance in H'll How about at a farther range? Do you still do 30-50 dmg?
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:39:00 - [72] Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 27/12/2005 18:40:09 Have you tried messing around with "Heavy Neutralizers" with the usage of low cap tanks "Invuln II" and "Cap Injectors". They work rather nice with 5 800 II's and rest Neutralizers in groups. Havn't really tried it in solo combat yet. Maybe I should hrrm. It's just that Cap Boosters now are getting better. It allows you to pick your cap injection. Which allows you to use Neutralizers better. Which has never really been done solo before with good DPS. Being 3 Heavy I's are = to 15 Heavy NoS + 450 DPS with 800 II's.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:39:00 - [73] Edited by: Sarmaul on 27/12/2005 18:39:42 Dual 650mm II x 6 Siege II x 2 Heavy Elec Cap Booster x 1 MWD II x 1 20k Faint Scram x 1 Fleeting Web x 1 Sensor Booster II x 1 Large Rep II x 2 Gyro II x 3 Drone Damage x 1 Kicks out almost 900dps... and 0.5cpu to spare ------------- Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP
IRTEHWINTBH	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:46:00 - [74] Edited by: IRTEHWINTBH on 27/12/2005 18:46:37 Originally by: ro prefect Originally by: IRTEHWINTBH Hitting a frig at point blank range with Megapulses/Tachyons/425 rail/350/dual 250/and so on, is kinda = No chance in H'll How about at a farther range? Do you still do 30-50 dmg? still ? At point blank range i/you dont hit at all. At close/med/Long range(10k -> 120k) you could get lucky and hit a frig for full damage, but we are talking very rare cases here. Frigs orbiting or something likely = no chance.
KilROCK	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:53:00 - [75] Hi, Javelin torp with good skills can hit at 275km. Doodee doo
Drunkeh	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:57:00 - [76] Originally by: Sarmaul Edited by: Sarmaul on 27/12/2005 18:39:42 Dual 650mm II x 6 Siege II x 2 Heavy Elec Cap Booster x 1 MWD II x 1 20k Faint Scram x 1 Fleeting Web x 1 Sensor Booster II x 1 Large Rep II x 2 Gyro II x 3 Drone Damage x 1 Kicks out almost 900dps... and 0.5cpu to spare ...with an unhardened tank.
IRTEHWINTBH	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:57:00 - [77] Originally by: KilROCK Hi, Javelin torp with good skills can hit at 275km. Doodee doo KilROCK you Forum ***** But yeah.. oh joy, i cant wait for those to be implented _for real_.
slip66	Posted - 2005.12.27 18:59:00 - [78] If you could figure out the optimal way to kill his cap fast.. a mix of heavy neuts/nos/650s a cap booster, warp scrambler, cap rechargers armor tank lows with dual rep and mix of active hardners & pasive. Using t2 heavy neuts you can kill 3600 of 4250(base) of his cap in 48 sec. The cap boosters will help you get your cap back enough to maintain your tank. Maybe? the question then is can you still do enough dmg to take out his shields before he overwhlems your tank. I dont fly Minmatar so who knows just taking a stab in the dark.
IRTEHWINTBH	Posted - 2005.12.27 19:01:00 - [79] Originally by: slip66 If you could figure out the optimal way to kill his cap fast.. a mix of heavy neuts/nos/650s a cap booster, warp scrambler, cap rechargers armor tank lows with dual rep and mix of active hardners & pasive. Using t2 heavy neuts you can kill 3600 of 4250(base) of his cap in 48 sec. The cap boosters will help you get your cap back enough to maintain your tank. Maybe? the question then is can you still do enough dmg to take out his shields before he overwhlems your tank. I dont fly Minmatar so who knows just taking a stab in the dark. What about your own cap, and your own tank? Even if he's cap dies, he will still be able to fire.. opposite from the BlasterThron.. no cap = No tank/no damage
KilROCK	Posted - 2005.12.27 19:06:00 - [80] Originally by: Drunkeh Originally by: Sarmaul Edited by: Sarmaul on 27/12/2005 18:39:42 Dual 650mm II x 6 Siege II x 2 Heavy Elec Cap Booster x 1 MWD II x 1 20k Faint Scram x 1 Fleeting Web x 1 Sensor Booster II x 1 Large Rep II x 2 Gyro II x 3 Drone Damage x 1 Kicks out almost 900dps... and 0.5cpu to spare ...with an unhardened tank. Yea, his tank will break in..... 2 Volley for shield.... around 4 volley for armor..... sploot
IRTEHWINTBH	Posted - 2005.12.27 19:09:00 - [81] Raven... Once again a 1 man PWNMobile anyone ?
Sarmaul	Posted - 2005.12.27 19:11:00 - [82] Originally by: Drunkeh Originally by: Sarmaul Dual 650mm II x 6 Siege II x 2 Heavy Elec Cap Booster x 1 MWD II x 1 20k Faint Scram x 1 Fleeting Web x 1 Sensor Booster II x 1 Large Rep II x 2 Gyro II x 3 Drone Damage x 1 Kicks out almost 900dps... and 0.5cpu to spare ...with an unhardened tank. meh I was just seeing the kind of damage it can do ------------- Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP
RedClaws	Posted - 2005.12.27 19:14:00 - [83] intresting discussion : read it all and i've yet to see a decent por-raven argument
Drunkeh	Posted - 2005.12.27 19:17:00 - [84] Its really the shield compensation skill that ****** things up. Sure, invul field IIs made a raven uber and able to have like a 3 or 4 slot tank, but they are balanced by energized adaptive IIs + new passive armor skills, plus the fact that armor has better base resists. But shield compensation upset the shield vs armor tanking balance. Shield tanking now repairs faster than armor repping while using the same or even less cap.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2005.12.27 19:18:00 - [85] Repair Compensation \o/ ------------- Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP
Sarmaul	Posted - 2005.12.27 19:29:00 - [86] Edited by: Sarmaul on 27/12/2005 19:29:52 woo numbers: Large Rep II x 2 Repaired: 1600 Capacitor: 800 Duraction: 11.25 seconds HP/Cap: 2hp/cap HP/Second: 142.2hp/s XL II + Boost Amp Repaired: 780 Capacitor: 360 Duration: 5 seconds HP/Cap: 2.16hp/cap HP/Second: 156hp/s Results XL II + Boost Amp repairs 0.16hp per unit of cap more than LAR II x 2 XL II + Boost Amp repairs 13.8hp per second more than LAR II x 2 ------------- Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP
Grigori Sokolov	Posted - 2005.12.27 19:33:00 - [87] Edited by: Grigori Sokolov on 27/12/2005 19:34:30 Originally by: ro prefect The point of a raven is to be strong against other battleships as they do practically no damage to smaller ships and they can't mine like the other battleships. The only thing a raven can do well is kill other battleships and now people want to nerf that? Why not just get rid of the ship completely. Or lets just have one single battleship type that all races use so no one can complain that one is better then the other. I personally regret going with a raven as it is so specialized. I wish I went for an Apoc instead so I would have more options of things I could do with the ship. QFT It'd be different if Ravens could hit frigs for more than ~40
Sarmaul	Posted - 2005.12.27 19:37:00 - [88] Originally by: Grigori Sokolov It'd be different if Ravens could hit frigs for more than ~40 last time I checked the raven has a drone bay ------------- Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP
Antic	Posted - 2005.12.27 19:39:00 - [89] "OMFG, theres something the raven dosnt suck at anymore! its supposed to suck! nerf please!" :P Short range outfitted raven winning is as it should. Try fighting long range with a raven using either cruise or torps. If you loose to such a raven you have issues. So its not like its the end of all ends ship. Dont go close range if you cant handle it. Adapt, thats what we have had to do multiple times this year.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2005.12.27 19:44:00 - [90] Originally by: Antic Short range outfitted raven winning is as it should. so you calling the fact that the raven can beat most other BS in a 1v1 without breaking a sweat balence? Thank christ you don't work at CCP. ------------- Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP

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