Then Skunkworks got a dec from God Squad. That was a bit of a head scratcher for us, as we had just started making friendly with them a bit over a mutual war against No Kings. We had a convo with God Squad and they claimed that a bunch of people from the BTL channel hired them to dec us.

Only a pubbie would think that people other than Goons use the term "pubbie".

v0v Talk to carmelos53, since he made himself out to be a representative of BTL pub.

Is that who that is? Hmm, I guess I laid blame on the wrong set of incursionbears.

Not that it'll effect the operations at all.

Good to know, though.

So by your own admission a handful of dudes can reduce the overall productivity of incursions by about 5%. Imagine what will happen if we escalate this. If there's one thing the Skunkworks excels at, it's taking things WAY too far.

So you simultaneously argue that incursions don't pay out that great and that losing your faction BS wont hurt your wallet? Nice one, you just made another new friend. See you soon bear.

As our diplomat, I have to say that whether or not our reasoning is flawed is irrelevant because we're more able to exercise power than BTL and thus we are right.

http://www.forscience.co/KB/?a=cc_detail&ctr_id=8

Campaign says 11b in two days. There's some choice kills in there. Nightmares and whatnot.

I need to get FRAPS registered and start recording. It's planned, yes.

edit: Here's my take on Incursions. They make as much isk as I did running wormholes, but in the safety of highsec. They are wrecking the value loyalty points, making the game harder for casual mission runners who don't have the time to chase incursions and put together fleets (no I don't do missions either) in what time they have to play. They are creating a steady stream of stuff going into the market without much being taken out, resulting in general inflation.

Incursions NEED to be more dangerous, because as they stand now they are just isk printers driving up the price of everything and hurting everyone who isn't being an incursion bear (except maybe the self-sufficient wormhole corps).

quoting you saying that highsec incursions dont make much ISK followed by you saying high sec incursions make 30 - 40 billion ISK AN HOUR.

but seriously, incursions pay out to well not just in isk but in LP as well, the main problem in it is that as long as you dotn kill the mother ship you can keep getting the sites to spawn over and over, there should be a cap on how many sites can spawn for each incursion till you 'have' to kill the mother ship and end the incursion.

Joining Sansha isent so bad, you get great health care.

Gazmin actually constructs proper sentences in corp chat. I give him 8/10 for garnering so many negative responses to his use of the English language. *discuss

Getting back on topic now; at one point we (Skunks) had complete control over the local incursion channel for the better part of 2 hours. Both BTL and TDF channels seemed confined to non fleet-forming chatter as well. Mostly people just talked about different strategies and fittings for their favorite shiny faction BS or t3. This could mean several things: We've frightened enough incursionbears into not pursuing their favorite past time, it was just an off night, or maybe they are hanging out in the opposite high-sec incursion. Personally I think that public fleets aren't being formed as often.

There have been measurably fewer people in the Vanguard systems the past couple of weeks and your beloved channels are pretty much endless QQ about CCP not "fixing" the griefing.

That's an achievement.

The incursionbears themselves have been great hosts. They commonly announce our presence to each other, while making furtive superstitious hand gestures to ward us off, like we were some kind of evil spirits. At the same time, they've continued to feed us a steady supply of kills, the kills were often in Machs and Nightmares. We've even gotten to watch their perception of us develop over that time. On the first day they thought we were all Slimy Worm's alts. By the third day they were claiming we had been black-listed for the better part of a year. On the fifth day someone say a Velator wreck in an OTA and announced that we had 'can flagged' that incursion and nobody should enter.

Our impact has been such that they feel like they've been persecuted for weeks or even monthes and are flat out telling each other ghost stories about us.

So much idiocy, I literally have no idea where to start on a retort.

Firstly, you seem to think your incursion channels are an alliance, in which all members are flying under a reimbursement policy that includes any fit they fly. I say that, because apparently you're quoting the net income from all of the incursion runners in your fantasy "we didn't want those faction fit battleships anyway" tirade. When someone loses a 4bil fit, it takes THEM AS AN INDIVIDUAL a lot more than "2-3 hours" to work that back. Try 25+ hours.

It's also quite hilarious to see how mad you are.

I've never met a worse breed of player of any game, at any point, than I have met in the Incursion channels. Ammzi is pretty much the posterchild for the basement dwelling elite who grind these things every ******* second they are logged in.

you probably were in a "unauthorized" mom fleet and didn't give TDF/BTL carmelos53 the loot so they banned you and decced you

I agree 100 percent and I think this is a problem that should be addressed. The problem with high-sec incursions is that they can be extended indefinitely. They will put off killing the mothership for WEEKS to grind Vanguards, one every 60 seconds or so during active hours in a single constellation.

but the brokenness of Incursions is one of the playerbase's best kept secrets..

I'm just repeating what I heard from someone who knows a hell of a lot more about incursions than I do, namely a TDF director.

Even if they do shut themselves down in 1 week (I don't really know and don't particularly care), that's hundreds of billions of isk paid out, not counting LP, to a very limited number of pilots who spend their time doing little else. My main concern is that this is, as I quoted, a stagnating influence.

There is much less fuss made about the imbalanced nature of Incursions, as almost anyone who cares can actually do them themselves and make enormous quantities of isk, and therefore very few people actually think it should be changed; if there is a single problem with nullsec anomalies not paying out correctly, half of EVE would be up in arms on the forums, but with incursions it has been a long, slow percolation. Sure, CCP is aware, but the playerbase doesn't really keep any true secrets; it's a relative term. I'm sure I'm nowhere near the first to point this out, but it's something that deserves more attention.

You are being ragey and obtuse, please take your terrible rage and pointless insults elsewhere unless you can actually comment on the matter at hand. I think it's cute and all that you're so up in arms the moment someone says that your main income source should be removed, but seriously now.

counterpoint: technetium

also you're dumb hth

Wrong. I know a fair bit of economics, don't throw that bullshit at me please. Just because CCP isn't actively doing something about this doesn't mean that it isn't affecting the economy, either beneficially or adversely. It takes a MASSIVE change or a sizable length of time to affect a system the size of EVE's.

Addendum: And just because something doesn't unbalance the economy doesn't mean it's fair, or a good game mechanic. A lone pilot in a good incursion fleet can make 10 million isk every 5 minutes or better, plus LP. To catch up to this, you have to be making 50 million isk wallet flashes in nullsec.

It's not like you're going to make ANY money in incursions if you aren't fit out with really fancy equipment, either. The boundary for entry in many incursion fleets is "lots of shiny equipment" and that's basically it. It's a self-perpetuating loop, and people coming late to the game are cut out of it unless they were already rich. The rich get richer, and the poor can't get into a fleet and have to go back to slow missioning.

Are incursions supposed to be outcompeting lvl 4 missions in highsec? A big fat YES from CCP.
Are you supposed to be earning a load of isk from incursions? Again a big fat YES from CCP.
Are incursions balanced in different security status? Will you earn a wopping 40 % more doing incursions in null/lowsec than in highsec? A huge YES.

Now, I don't like highsec Incursions. It's not that we think less of incursionbears than we do of, say, mission-bears. It's that incursions in high sec pay too damn much. It's basically some of the best money in the game outside of owning a tech moon and therefore all kinds of people are just sitting in highsec doing those, rather than doing something more creative or going out to null or whatever. In our opinion, it's a stagnating influence.

I'm not going to pretend to be in possession of any actual statistics or analytical data, but it's my suspicion that the possession of really expensive faction ships and mods is on a pretty consistent incline since the introduction of Incursions. A very sharp incline, I suspect. I see evidence of it here and there, and I'm fairly certain that it was much less common for characters that can barely pilot battleships (due to being less than six months old) to be so carelessly cap chaining random people up in their faction fit Machs and NMs like they're handing them out for free at every station (I'm pretty sure you've seen our KB). So please, tell me that Incursions aren't affecting the economy in the game. Also, please tell me exactly which manners of affecting the economy might offend me, because clearly you are the only one who can make a value judgement on that subject.

One statistic that I do have some insight into is the possession of really expensive faction ships and mods in The Skunkworks since we started "running" Incursions, and that bad boy is off the charts!

Seriously though, "if [noun] were messing up the [noun] then CCP would step in and do something about it." Do you even play this game? This dude is clearly a troll, but thanks for bumping our thread anyways!

~Andrei.

Ammzi, I think you're wrong, although it's not impossible that you're spot on. We can go back and forth with walls of text for weeks, and I'm sure we will, but it doesn't change the fact that we have the leverage to act on our opinion, which is the part that really matters.

Also, even if you did manage to convince me of your position, it doesn't adress the number one reason we're doing this: It's fun as hell.

Is what I am going to do be fun for me?

Ammzi isn't the type to understand core EVE concepts such as gravy and for the lul'z.

I was kind of wondering that myself. There are a TON of shield ganks but not a single armor gank? I'm sensing a little bit of bias here.

If this is going to be your claim, then the burden of proof will be upon you to prove it. There are plenty of features in this game that make it worse (in varying degrees) and yet have not been addressed. I never said Incursions would ruin Eve. My hand was actually forced in this particular matter. One member of my corp griefed a handful of logistics running Incursions (SKNK. does not frown upon griefing in corp downtime), and our entire corp was blacklisted and banned from all the decent channels, as well as wardec'd by mercenaries hired by some ambiguous blob from those channels. Now, with the most fluid ISK faucet in the game denied to me, the next most fluid ISK faucet turned out to be killing the largest collection of shiny ships gathered into one hunting ground in the history of the game. What did I have to lose anyways? It turned out to be something like equivalent risk and equivalent rewards to Incursions. This is why we joke that we run Incursions, we just shoot the squares instead of the pluses.

Implying that nullsec isn't a pretty serious part of the game? Also, and more specifically, implying that Gallente ships aren't a pretty serious part of the game? Well, until winter I'd partially agree with you there...

In fact, one member did get our entire corp blacklisted AND wardecced by Incursion runners (the by Incursion runners part is secondhand from the mercs that were hired, and told to inform us of the origin of the contract). This is a fact: Slimy Worm griefed Incursions and no one else in our corp was interested because the ISK rewards from his methods of ganking were slim, while the rewards for running the sites were obviously very high.

And lol at the part about ensuring the safety of Incursion runners... You guys really messed that up for 187 of those poor souls.

Incursions are ruining EvEGÇÖs market

That doesn't change the fact that the incursioners claim to be putting 30+ billion isk an hour into the economy, with no comparable isk-sink to prevent inflation. If they do even half that number, that's 10 trillion isk a month being spread out across highsec PVE players who spend it on PLEX and shiny ships/mods, steadily driving prices up.

no U prove it!

Incursions are, for the most part, pure ISK. 80-120mil of it per hour.

There has never been a PURE ISK source, in highsec, like this before. You can blitz level 4's for 60-80mil an hour, but you're blitzing for LP which has a built in ISK / materials / tags sink.

Fundamentally, the best way of earning ISK in highsec has increased by something like 50% in terms of hourly income AND that income is not tethered to an ISK sink.

I agree, we need to get back on topic of crushing incersioners under heel, Ammzl is a very broken record and his argument never changes

umad?

You ignore my repeated point that the issue isn't just the quantity of isk they make, it's that they make as much as riskier group activities in nullsec. Nullsec operations have natural isk-sinks. Again: NO COMPARABLE ISK SINK. They put isk into the market with little risk of anything being lost.

OM I just saw this on Youtube. Funny **** ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwA--gnZWDA&feature=youtu.be

OMG, I'm going to be following this **** from now on. Guy in corp linked it. This is awesome.

good



can we lock this thread now?

You, sir, are clearly trolling (I should have listened the first time I said that). As such, I hope you will pardon me if I excuse myself from any further attempts to feed you.

~Andrei.

A part of the next client update will feature a change to aggression mechanics in high security space.

To benefit the EVE community at large, a small change has been made to game mechanics regarding criminal flags and how they are inherited in high security space. If a pilot is remote repairing, or otherwise assisting, another pilot who commits a criminal act then the repair module will now disengage. In order to continue repairs the module will need to be restarted and a message will appear warning of the criminal flag and possible consequences.

None of you know the difference between "criminal flagging" and passed on aggression, then?

A while back, CCP made it IMPOSSIBLE to rep someone who was criminally flagged, due to the CONCORDOKKEN greifing in Incursion sites. This ****** up FW and lowsec, since you couldn't rep someone who had a GCC timer (the criminal flag....)

It is now possible to do so again, only now with a warning.

i.e. CCP have fixed the half assed nerf.

What the Skunkworks were doing will still throw up no warning.

EDIT: unless CCP don't know their own terminology, of course. Lazy patch notes.

CONCORDs automatic safety algorithm embedded in your Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction has decided to shut down to avoid involvement with the criminal shenanigans of Marhaba. Manual override is required to resume operations.

So, breaking it down....

If your reps/transfers cycle is already activated on griefer, and the griefer gets aggression mid cycle it does NOT auto transfer to the logi due to it being already activated. But any mod activated after that time will get the pop up warning?


Did i get that right?

Best you can do now is finnish the highsec incursions as fast as possible. I hear people are very upset when they don't get to farm the vanguards.

Point out the "tears" please?

We're discussing how game mechanics have been changed, that seemingly only benefit people too stupid to protect themselves.

The problem with you bears, is you actually have no idea what "tears" look like, and seem to think going "LOL TEARS!!" when someone points out an issue is the same thing.

Though it was not the only reason, this featured prominently in their "beef" with Incursion runners, and Incursions in general.

People say Incursions are "good content" - well, sorry, but **** that.

Missions are frankly less boring than "shoot 5 ships, warp to next site, shoot 5 ships, warp to next site, shoot 5 ships...."

Incursions WERE good content.

The players completely ruined them by turning them into a 23/7 grind machine.

No one blames you for being jelly, bro.

~Andrei.

Just tried to have an actual fight in this **** pile of a game. A fight involving logistics.

Oh hey, no no no! Says CONCORD. Gotta turn off that repper every 2.3 seconds whilst you are trying to rep your CORP MATE who is also in a MOTHERFUCKING FLEET with you so I can make extra special sparkly sure you want to let the other guy possibly be mean to you as a result.

So. *******. Annoying. You lose a whole **** pile of your effective logistics who are spamming to try to get the buttons pressed.

But, of course, CCP don't care. As long as Incursion bears are happy.

And no, this doesn't just affect highsec.

You're right, of course.

At no point in playing a game should people use anything to their advantage, because obviously the logical result is that the developer will implement a fix that fucks over other parts of the game.

slashsarcasm

CCP making a patch to stop that exploit was a win for the carebares

Otherwise ther'd have been a ccp post stating "working as intended". Obv. it wasn't working as intended and carebares took the cake and ate it.









I'd be curious now to see what is the next exploit