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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.01 01:31:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Situations where using a dreadnaught would be annoying and cumbersome.
So they want to make dreads even more useless? Sounds about right, considering that a Carrier or mothership is going to be a far better offensive weapon than a Dread.
Hmm.. dread that can barely hit slow battleships, and do absurdly low dmg to everything (citadel torps), or a carrier whose fighters will shread anything smaller than a battleship in no time at all? I think I'll take the Carrier as my pick for best offensive ship now. Can't really compare a dread to a mothership, since you could buy a dozen dreads for 1 mothership, altho 15-20 fighters would shread most targets at insane speeds.
Originally by: Asnar
Bush:but most importantly wtf was my carrier doing without support?
Admiral: well sorry mr president, guess you're not that stupid after all.....
Bush: /me shoots Admiral
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.01 01:53:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Malacore
In my mind, the T2 drones are comparable to T2 guns, not ammunition. T2 guns don't really have crippling disadvantages...
T2 guns require more skills and have greater fitting requirements. Where are th greater fitting requirements for drones exactly? Making you train a racial spec for -every- drone type sounds fair.
Want wasp IIs, train the wasp spec. Ogres? Ogre spec it is.
T2 guns have heavier skill and fitting reqs than T1 guns. Drones do not have these both, now do they?
Originally by: Asnar
Bush:but most importantly wtf was my carrier doing without support?
Admiral: well sorry mr president, guess you're not that stupid after all.....
Bush: /me shoots Admiral
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dalman
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Posted - 2006.01.01 02:42:00 -
[63]
HG, this time you've really got your whine wrong. I'm not even gonna read what other ppl have said here.
But:
T2 turret: 20% better damage than T1 turret. + 10% more from skill.
T2 drone: 20% better damage than T1 drone. + 10% from skill.
So, T2 drones is exactly as T2 turrets using T1 ammo.
So, what are you whining about? I should be whining cause I can't load my drones with T2 ammo to make them better.
Now it's time for fact 2.
T2 LAUNCHERS are owerpowered. As the bonus here is not to damage mod but to ROF.
So:
T2 drones: 1.2*1.1 = 1.32= 32% better.
T2 Turrets: 1.2*1.1 = 1.32= 32% better without using T2 ammo.
T2 launchers: 1/(0.8*0.9)= 1.39 = 39% better without using T2 missiles.
So, seriously, WHAT?
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin.
Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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LUKKAT
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Posted - 2006.01.01 08:15:00 -
[64]
US supposedly overly advantage drone users have to put up with.
1. poor drone AI they do what ever the heck they want to and normally get us killed in missions.
2. a hasty retreat means we leave behind our weapon , which is like u having to drop your guns in space when you warp away.
3. slow we have to be at close range or suffer damage before they even get to the target.
a drone user has to skill specifically for the task in both drone and tank capabilities and be limted to a few ships mainly dominix and ishtar (not sure what the other races drone ships are as im based entriely on gallente ships) , large guns skills can be use across several races ie gunnery skills trained apply to all turret races.
and in the end just all stop *****ing its a game where group effort wins the day and a group of dedicated pilots who have speialised in their chosen field will always woop the arses of lazy *****s who just want the latest pwn mobile
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Baun
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Posted - 2006.01.01 08:46:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Malacore
In my mind, the T2 drones are comparable to T2 guns, not ammunition. T2 guns don't really have crippling disadvantages...
T2 guns require more skills and have greater fitting requirements. Where are th greater fitting requirements for drones exactly? Making you train a racial spec for -every- drone type sounds fair.
Want wasp IIs, train the wasp spec. Ogres? Ogre spec it is.
I don't know what planet you are on but the skill requirements work exactly like you said ..... there are 4 drone specialization skills which correspond to the 4 types of heavy drones, among other things.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Agent Kenshin
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Posted - 2006.01.01 09:31:00 -
[66]
As far as i know the t2 ammo is supposed to give the penalty once. So it shouldnt stack for each turret or launcher like it does now. From what i remember what has been going around CCP knows that its a bug and they are working on fixing it. The penalties shouldnt stack for every gun/launcher the way they do now.
This is at least what i was hearing from someone, somewhere. I cant remember exactly where i heard it from i think from alliance chat.
Originally by: MAXSuicide
only carebears call pvpers 'greifers'
ehehehh....
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.01.01 09:32:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Baun
I don't know what planet you are on but the skill requirements work exactly like you said ..... there are 4 drone specialization skills which correspond to the 4 types of heavy drones, among other things.
I live on a planet where you' have to train a spec for -any- T2 drone. I'm aware of the heavy drone skill, but I don't recall seeing med/light drone spec skills, nor do T2 drones have LARGER FITTING REQUIREMENTS. Until both are fully in, I stand by my point.
Originally by: Asnar
Bush:but most importantly wtf was my carrier doing without support?
Admiral: well sorry mr president, guess you're not that stupid after all.....
Bush: /me shoots Admiral
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2006.01.01 10:42:00 -
[68]
ôI'm aware of the heavy drone skill, but I don't recall seeing med/light drone spec skills, nor do T2 drones have LARGER FITTING REQUIREMENTS. Until both are fully in, I stand by my point.ö
Why do so many people think a balanced or a good games means every thing has to be the same? If you and others got there way missiles, drones, hybrids, projectiles would all be practically the same only the name and graphic would be different.
Drones are not turrets. Drones should not follow the turret rules, they should not have the same bonuses or penalties. Variation is what makes Eve good. You can have a balanced and good game without everything being similar.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:09:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Situations where using a dreadnaught would be annoying and cumbersome.
So they want to make dreads even more useless? Sounds about right, considering that a Carrier or mothership is going to be a far better offensive weapon than a Dread.
1) POS will be allowed in empire. Dreads are not allowed in empire, hence we need better tools for taking down empire POS without creating a new class of ship.
2) If you consider a dread useless, I am assuming that you've never seen the pounding it can take from a POS when in siege mode. 2 good hits from an XL artillery battery and you can say goodbye battleship
3) Dreads are not an offensive weapon, they are a SIEGE weapon, for taking down your enemy's POS and capturing stations. I would love to see a carrier or mothership attempt to do that, seeing as afaik drones can't target a POS anymore (and even if they can, they still can't damage it unless you're using sentries).
4) I think I've made you look stupid enough
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
WiseMagic
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:09:00 -
[70]
I use t2 pulse crystals in my hacs and they are working just fine the scorch M gives a 0.75% bonus to tracking and the conflagnation M gives 0.5% bonus to tarcking on the turrets so where did u get the idea that the pulse crystals make ur tracking worse?
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Lorette
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:15:00 -
[71]
Only read a few posts so i dont know if this has been mentioned....anyway
T2 drones dont need a nerf because they are exactly the same as a T2 gun with T1 ammo....FULL STOP end of argument
easy enough to understand? 
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:24:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Pottsey
ôI'm aware of the heavy drone skill, but I don't recall seeing med/light drone spec skills, nor do T2 drones have LARGER FITTING REQUIREMENTS. Until both are fully in, I stand by my point.ö
Why do so many people think a balanced or a good games means every thing has to be the same? If you and others got there way missiles, drones, hybrids, projectiles would all be practically the same only the name and graphic would be different.
Drones are not turrets. Drones should not follow the turret rules, they should not have the same bonuses or penalties. Variation is what makes Eve good. You can have a balanced and good game without everything being similar.
It's not balanced = good, it's balanced = fair. As people have said before, there is no reason not to use t2 drones over t1 drones if you have the skills to use them. They do more damage for zero penalty. T2 module users on the otherhand have to put up with higher powergrid and higher cpu, all for a damage increase of 0-10%. This is (just about) acceptable. However, now we have ammo that penalizes the ship using it even further.
Now, to make things slightly interesting:
Force all drones to use drone ammunition - EM drones fit Drone Cystal S/M/L/XL, Explosive Drones fit Drone Ammo S/M/L/XL, Kinetic Drones fit Drone Missile S/M/L/XL, and Thermal Drones fit Drone Charge S/M/L/XL. This would need to be replenished regularly as drones don't have an infinate cargo hold.
Next, t2 drones should take up 5% more room than t1 drones, so 5m3 takes 6m3, 10m3 takes 12m3, and 25m3 takes 30m3. This balences the increased fitting requirements needed for t2 modules. For this you get the same stats as a t1 drone, but the specialization skill increases the damage by 2% per level.
Finally, release t2 drone ammo that does better damage, but causes your drones to move at 1/2 their speed, or give them 1/2 tracking, 1/2 their hitpoints, and all the other crap that turret users have to go through.
Then this will be fair. On the otherhand, just redo t2 ammo so it isn't either completely overpowered or completely useless.
I am happy for each type of weapon system to be different - if anything I would've liked to see something more distinction between the turrets (as they are basically the same module with different numbers). However, penalising the t2 versions of one but not the other isn't good game design, it isn't balanced, and it isn't fair.
god damn I shouldn't have drunk so much coffee last night
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:24:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Sarmaul on 01/01/2006 11:24:12
dbl post
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
LUKKAT
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:30:00 -
[74]
It's not balanced = good, it's balanced = fair. As people have said before, there is no reason not to use t2 drones over t1 drones if you have the skills to use them. They do more damage for zero penalty.
the penalty is the time require to recall them if u want to leave. and if u lose em you are basically out of the fight till u rearm.
have u taken that into consideration? with t2 guns missles u just warp out and in when u feel like it
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:34:00 -
[75]
Originally by: LUKKAT
the penalty is the time require to recall them if u want to leave. and if u lose em you are basically out of the fight till u rearm.
have u taken that into consideration? with t2 guns missles u just warp out and in when u feel like it
that really isn't much of a penalty, considering most specialized drone ships have massive drone bays for reserves. And besides, you're insinuating that only t2 drones have to be recalled and that t1 drones don't. This is part of the balencing between turrets, launchers and drones in general, not t2 ammo, t2 launchers and t2 drones.
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
LUKKAT
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:44:00 -
[76]
when in 0.0 for long fights could mean a 40 jump round trip to get new drones.
will take me 2-3 months to get drones to a decent lvl if you think they so powerfull train the skills like i will and reap their benefit.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:47:00 -
[77]
öthat really isn't much of a penalty, considering most specialized drone ships have massive drone bays for reserves.ö
That is a massively penalty, have you seen the price of them? Your talking between 10 to 15 million for a full bay of T2 drones. Turret users donÆt have to worry about warping out to survive and leaving behind millions in equipment.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:53:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Pottsey
öthat really isn't much of a penalty, considering most specialized drone ships have massive drone bays for reserves.ö
That is a massively penalty, have you seen the price of them? Your talking between 10 to 15 million for a full bay of T2 drones. Turret users donÆt have to worry about warping out to survive and leaving behind millions in equipment.
and how much does a full load of large close-range t2 ammo cost you? exactly. Except you only get to use it once.
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Sennju Zensu
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:57:00 -
[79]
roflmao this post...
Drones cannot snipe, drones can be easy killed, drones are limited in dronebay, drones are stupid.... so what?
Guns/missiles weap can snipe, you can choose range, you can choose ammo (benefits or nerf), you cannot kill a gun, you do what you want with you ammo/gun/launcher....
You need specialisation skills for tech II drones, 4 spec skills to use all + base skill at V... pretty same as TII guns
stop whining about that, make petition for T2 ammo unnerf and not drone nerf cause that totally stupid! (go npc with a drone and you will see the drones nerfing on you ship when a stupid drone gonna aggro all the deadspace because that lil thing feels that fun :p)
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Mikal Drey
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:58:00 -
[80]
hey hey,
Am i missing something here .. . I lovingly purchased some TII Hail and Barrage M but when i loaded into a 425mm II fitted Vaga. i noticed a slight gimp.
Description shows a tracking BONUS and NOT a penalty but i got a penalty. However i saw that instead of the CAP PENALTY as described. i was given a 5% CAP recharge BONUS. i think that its just bugged.
My only gripe with the TII ammo is that regardless of penalty/bonus. for the tiny extra damage. it doesnt seem worth loading.
As to the original post TII Valks @ 200- 250k each and they die rather quickly, I cannot see what damage or stats my drones have after skillZ applied ! Only 3 heavy drones in a temp, 45 km range. (scout drone 5), they are weak in PvP so much that people ignore them and just tank 'em, Drone stupidity, er. . . have i missed anything.
TII ship, TII GunZ, TII ammo, TII Shield Tank, TII Drones, TII missiles (in training) TII implants (pirate) Hmmmmm Tech II.
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Pottsey
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Posted - 2006.01.01 12:00:00 -
[81]
ôand how much does a full load of large close-range t2 ammo cost you? exactly. Except you only get to use it once.ö
No idea but I am pretty sure 1 round of ammo is not 1 million like 1 T2 drone.
Anyway we are not talking about T2 ammo as there is no drone version of T2 Ammo. Drones are like your T2 turret. Your T2 turret and t2 skill boosts your damage and T2 drones do the same.
Turrets are already better in that you get a bonusÆs from the T2 weapon, bonus from the T2 specialisation skill and a bonus from the T2 ammo. Now youÆre saying give the drones the T2 ammo penalties without the damage bonus.
So can you please stop compareing drones to T2 ammo as thatÆs unfair. Drones are like T2 turrets. Think of a drone as a T2 laser turret.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.01.01 12:01:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Sennju Zensu
stop whining about that, make petition for T2 ammo unnerf and not drone nerf cause that totally stupid!
read the entire of this thread (in particular the comments made by Istvaan) and you'll get the idea of the point of it.
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Please make Minmatar overpowered, CCP |
Pottsey
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Posted - 2006.01.01 12:03:00 -
[83]
ôDrones cannot snipe, drones can be easy killed, drones are limited in dronebay, drones are stupid.... so what?ö
Some drones can snipe very well with well over 100km shooting range.
ôOnly 3 heavy drones in a temp, 45 km range.ö
Even without the drone modules you can get over 45km range.
_________________________________________________
Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Kyle Caldrel
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Posted - 2006.01.01 13:51:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Berrik Radhok
Drones die easily-- that's their drawback.
they do?
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What ya gonna do, when I come for you!?
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Mikal Drey
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Posted - 2006.01.01 14:09:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Mikal Drey on 01/01/2006 14:10:44
hey hey,
Sentry Drones snipe at 100km range But, however only at whats within 45km from your ship. (this is the message i get when i use them)
"45km range" with scout drone 5 is as far as i can send mine :( but thats another thread.
either way drones are gimped enough as it is. but ive never thought of them as a primary weapon just as a complimentry one.
Wheres the fun without a nerfbat.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.01.01 14:40:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 01/01/2006 14:34:30
ôSentry Drones snipe at 100km range But, however only at whats within 45km from your ship. (this is the message i get when i use them)
"45km range" with scout drone 5 is as far as i can send mine :( but thats another thread.ö
There are two ways around that train up your skills for a longer range and/or fit a drone modules for more range.
That is, train Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing. It adds another 3km per level to control range.
The language filter needs an update. Check Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams' forum for a good profanity filter |
Malacore
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Posted - 2006.01.01 14:41:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Malacore
In my mind, the T2 drones are comparable to T2 guns, not ammunition. T2 guns don't really have crippling disadvantages...
T2 guns require more skills and have greater fitting requirements. Where are th greater fitting requirements for drones exactly? Making you train a racial spec for -every- drone type sounds fair.
Want wasp IIs, train the wasp spec. Ogres? Ogre spec it is.
T2 guns have heavier skill and fitting reqs than T1 guns. Drones do not have these both, now do they?
Fitting is by no means heavily crippling unless you're a terminally moronic pilot.
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Nekhad Jormuzzar
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Posted - 2006.01.01 16:00:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Nekhad Jormuzzar on 01/01/2006 15:59:59
Originally by: Sarmaul
Next, t2 drones should take up 5% more room than t1 drones, so 5m3 takes 6m3, 10m3 takes 12m3, and 25m3 takes 30m3. This balences the increased fitting requirements needed for t2 modules. For this you get the same stats as a t1 drone, but the specialization skill increases the damage by 2% per level.
...
Then this will be fair.
Wow, you don't have a clue, do you?. 10% benefit only for t2 guns over t1?
We are forgetting the lack of named drones, aren't we? For a stupid idea like yours to be fair, you'd need ot intruduce named drones that were easier to fit and made up to 20% more damage first.
Please, less coffee next time you want to post.
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Bracius
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Posted - 2006.01.01 17:47:00 -
[89]
To balance t2 drones you need to:
-make t2 guns usable only with t2 ammo
-named t1 drones
- t2 drone mods, including t2 increased drone bay, as it is same effect as fitting RCU on tempest :)
I just contributed 0 to this topic :) |
Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2006.01.01 18:11:00 -
[90]
Lets face it, CCP has a boner for gal and its not changing anytime soon. Thats why im simply going to stop fighting for equality and switch over to the winning team.
_______________________________________________
Deadspace For Dead space!
Originally by: Oveur
To the nerfmobile!
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