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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2006.01.01 11:39:00 -
[31]
My sugestion here is to create a number of jetcans, make sure they are far enough apart that if you are at the center you can open all but if you are at one of them you can not.
When a shuttle then aproaches you simply move the ore into the cans the shuttle cant reach, if the shuttle ever loots the keep item blow it apart.
Naturally its not a permanent solution and mining into secure cans or having a hauler do regular pickups is alot better.
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20. Is it true all pvpers have carebear alts?
Yes, of course. I have so much fun looking up who's alt is who's 
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online |
Ion Shape
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Posted - 2006.01.01 12:11:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Macro Slasher
Too small? Just put more of them in row.
1. Secured giant cans are WAY too small. 3900m3 - for crying out loud, I fill this in 3 min 
I love the way ccp making possibilities for me to train my char. so I can mine fast and in big ôchunksö . . . love it  I have ôout grownö my abilities to uses these petty tiny cans
2. If you have missed it  there must be 5km between 2 secured cans, you can't work in any way efficiently constantly have to move around (we talking only secured space here of cause)
3. You mining in secured space because you corp. comrades can't protect you constantly. Real type miners have to mine alone about 90% of the time. This is why we go mining in secured space most of our time.
4. Situation secure space pre patch mining alone: You have to deal width ore thieves and NPCÆs û now we also have to deal width pirates
SOLUTION:
ItÆs REALLY now time for bigger secured cans. Say about 10.000-15.000m3 for giant cans. Make them hard to get either by skills (preferred) or big payout in isk or both. Just do something please CCP û It canÆt be right!!
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2006.01.01 12:17:00 -
[33]
parlty solved by tech 2 mining barges with base 6000 m3 cargo capacity - expanders will boost to 13-14000 m3. Should at least add some options
Im a happy little camper now - CCP 4tw. |
Ion Shape
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Posted - 2006.01.01 12:40:00 -
[34]
Originally by: sonofollo
parlty solved by tech 2 mining barges with base 6000 m3 cargo capacity - expanders will boost to 13-14000 m3. Should at least add some options
You right I love these new ships But these are mainly made for UNsecured space and if you have to get one of those just to mine in secured space - not good!!
Bigger secured cans thanks, this would be the right way imo !
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Xitami Wiha
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Posted - 2006.01.01 14:07:00 -
[35]
Short recap of this topic:
"Wahh wahh wahh wahh stealing wahhh wahhh whine unfair whaah whaaaahhh whaahh"
Who wanted can flagging in the first place? Yes, the people that now whine the loudest.
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Mantar Mattox
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Posted - 2006.01.01 14:23:00 -
[36]
Simple solutions - get a friend in a hauler.
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Profhet
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Posted - 2006.01.01 16:11:00 -
[37]
My experience with this, and its griefing as far as I care.
Dude comes in with his Interceptor, moves the ore over into his can with 1 ammo. Im a 2 month old noob with a thorax. I get "chatting with him" and he doesnt want the ore of course, he is spoiling for a lopsided fight that will result in him getting my modules. So first off I am laughing cause even my noobish azz knows that Miner IIs are not worth a horrendous amount of money and then Im ****ed because he is spoiling for such a one sided fight.
I will definetely adjust my methods now, but if someone says this is anything but griefing, there fooling themselves.
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Slardibardfast
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Posted - 2006.01.01 16:57:00 -
[38]
Had this last night. Supprise was that we were waiting for them.
Ship mining belt fully equiped with hardners, ore theif wanders up & moves 1 unit of ore over. Our miner locks, scrambles and webs the theif and the firefight starts with the theif thinking its going to be an easy win. 90km out is a cloaked BS setup for sniping that blows the original agressor away due to gang rights. Takes 20 seconds to decloak and lock but thats why the miner hand EW and hardners fitted.
Nice to watch the other person spam in local that it was unfair..... That will teach them.
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BlackHole Bob
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Posted - 2006.01.01 17:23:00 -
[39]
Edited by: BlackHole Bob on 01/01/2006 17:24:50
no offense but if another PLAYER whines about this crap and does NOT USE ANCHORED CANS....YOU DESERVE tO GET YOUR ORE STOLEN
I mean come on...you carebears got your can flag rules....and your still complaining up a storm...
keep useing jet cans ....and keep getting jacked...i hope they take are your ore
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ZYMOTICAL
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Posted - 2006.01.01 17:28:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Slardibardfast
Had this last night. Supprise was that we were waiting for them.
Ship mining belt fully equiped with hardners, ore theif wanders up & moves 1 unit of ore over. Our miner locks, scrambles and webs the theif and the firefight starts with the theif thinking its going to be an easy win. 90km out is a cloaked BS setup for sniping that blows the original agressor away due to gang rights. Takes 20 seconds to decloak and lock but thats why the miner hand EW and hardners fitted.
Nice to watch the other person spam in local that it was unfair..... That will teach them.
That's a cute story, but its not true. Unless your buddy lost his sniper BS.
Gang members do NOT get kill rights on people who take from your can. I've tested this with some friends on Sisi before the RMR patch, and then on live after the patch.
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2006.01.01 18:05:00 -
[41]
Originally by: ZYMOTICAL
That's a cute story, but its not true. Unless your buddy lost his sniper BS.
Gang members do NOT get kill rights on people who take from your can. I've tested this with some friends on Sisi before the RMR patch, and then on live after the patch.
Worked for me last night. Switched a macro's can, hauler comes in, takes from can, I scrambled and opened fire. Gangmate laid final blow, and no CONCORD to be seen.
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Ashelth
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Posted - 2006.01.01 23:13:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Mark19960
ok, this has happened to me a few times now.. (in .5 and up space)
It goes like this:
2 or more players, one in a shuttle or small fast ship
player one approaches lonely miner or mining group in his fast ship
and opens the jetcan he is filling during his mining operation
he removes some or all ore and places into his can, now becoming flagged.
This person then hits their mwd and gets some distance or warps out
player 2 comes along and takes the can from player 1s can and places it into a second can
player 2 is usually in a battleship or some other heavy ship, and tends to be much slower.
now player 1 and player 2 may not nessesarily be in the same corp, every time i have seen this tactic the thieves are not in the same corp.
the issue here is now the guy in the shuttle is flagged and the guy in the battleship is not.
if you make the mistake, and they are banking on it... and take the ore back, your dead meat.
I have seen this happen and have had it happen to me.
note they never pop your jetcan.. as in they never fully empty it. they usually leave 1 unit of ore or something like that.
its done very fast and tends to be well organised.
if this does not solicit a response from you, like in my case the guy in the battleship
will come take the remaining ore from your can, so now you have 2 flagged players around you... and if you still dont bite they target you..
last but not least, and its happened once to me, one player thats flagged will fire a snowball at you, in an attempt to really provoke an attack. (oh yes they are using these in this game as bait)
now, it gets even more interesting here...
if you DO attack, and say.. toss out in your corp channel that your currently being thieved and your corp members from to your aid, once they engage the thieves usually another 3-4 pop out of the woodwork and go after your miner(s)/hauler(s)
I have seen several full out battles in paye just today over some people using these tactics. its getting out of hand and i think this whole flagging buisness is flawed.
it has done nothing but give the pirate an upper hand and a means to extort miners.
anyone care to comment on this? since the flagging its only gotten worse.
the introduction of snowballs has totally sent it over the edge.
you need to be a REALLY cool customer.
thing is, once you fire on the guy that stole your ore... its just all downhill.
thieves should have some kind of punishment dealt them, but when its multiple thieves operating in a group there is hardly anything you can do.
ideas on defending against groups of thieves?
Pop the shuttle. Warp in your kestrel alt and gank the pod.
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Nasum
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Posted - 2006.01.02 01:27:00 -
[43]
It's not really the fact that one loses the ore when this new ore thieving tactic is used, it's the fact that PVP players are able to attack peeps in hi-sec space outside of a war. Fair enough, you'd be stupid to shoot back but the possibility is there. Ore thieves aren't just annoying now, they're dangerous too since they tend to be well organized PVP players. |
griff1972
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Posted - 2006.01.02 01:29:00 -
[44]
dont worry about shuttles just fit FoF's you dont need to target them to hit a flagged ship
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Oi Poloi
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Posted - 2006.01.02 01:30:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Nasum
It's not really the fact that one loses the ore when this new ore thieving tactic is used, it's the fact that PVP players are able to attack peeps in hi-sec space outside of a war. Fair enough, you'd be stupid to shoot back but the possibility is there. Ore thieves aren't just annoying now, they're dangerous too since they tend to be well organized PVP players.
That begs the question: why for the love of satan would you attack these 'highly organized PvP players' if you know they will wtfpwn you when you do?
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DJ 4tw |
Nasum
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Posted - 2006.01.02 01:33:00 -
[46]
Because you have to learn about it the hard way :)
Exactlies: When your ass and your armpits smell *exactly* the same. |
Oi Poloi
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Posted - 2006.01.02 01:36:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Nasum
Because you have to learn about it the hard way :)
That's the way eve works. Usually.
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DJ 4tw |
Ion Shape
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Posted - 2006.01.02 11:12:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Xitami Wiha
Short recap of this topic:
"Wahh wahh wahh wahh stealing wahhh wahhh whine unfair whaah whaaaahhh whaahh"
Who wanted can flagging in the first place? Yes, the people that now whine the loudest.
Oh dear I think we have a "kido" problem here !!
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Ion Shape
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Posted - 2006.01.02 11:25:00 -
[49]
Originally by: BlackHole Bob
Edited by: BlackHole Bob on 01/01/2006 17:34:08
no offense but if another PLAYER whines about this crap and does NOT USE ANCHORED CANS....YOU DESERVE tO GET YOUR ORE STOLEN
I mean come on...you carebears got your can flag rules....and your still complaining up a storm...
keep useing jet cans ....and keep getting jacked...i hope they take all your ore
Hm - some of us fill these petty "giant" cans under 3 min - so if we could get them bigger I would use them for sure. But as it is now if I using these cans I have to "plaster" a belt width MANY (about 20) giant cans and that is not good for anyone Time has run out of these petty small cans!!
ItÆs REALLY now time for bigger secured cans. But make them hard to get either by skills (preferred) or big payout in isk or both.
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Woddawick
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Posted - 2006.01.02 11:25:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Nasum
It's not really the fact that one loses the ore when this new ore thieving tactic is used, it's the fact that PVP players are able to attack peeps in hi-sec space outside of a war. Fair enough, you'd be stupid to shoot back but the possibility is there. Ore thieves aren't just annoying now, they're dangerous too since they tend to be well organized PVP players.
Lol, you put that very well. Let me summarise it though:
Stupid people sometimes do stupid things that hurt them.
My response to that is 'darwinism ftw!' 
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Lawman
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Posted - 2006.01.02 14:15:00 -
[51]
Set up a trap !! use a friend to sit at the belt in a mining barge or simlar next to your can. you sit in a heaverly armed BS a short worp away.
or mine in an Apoc .... there get used to you mining in it... but one day sit next to your can .. but have it fully fitted for PvP ....
get a second account .. an Amarr can fly a Bestower in no time at all ...
use your head theres plenty ways to beat them
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SengH
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Posted - 2006.01.02 14:19:00 -
[52]
all the suggestions still cant beat the noob alt laundering method though.
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Lawman
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Posted - 2006.01.02 14:24:00 -
[53]
Originally by: SengH
all the suggestions still cant beat the noob alt laundering method though.
Originally by: Lawman
get a second account .. an Amarr can fly a Bestower in no time at all ...
use your head theres plenty ways to beat them
err...
just how are they going to steal the ore if its in a bestower?
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SengH
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Posted - 2006.01.02 14:37:00 -
[54]
you cant direct transfer to another ship. It must still go through a can. He can paralyze your operations by creating his own can next to it and when you put your ore in it he drags it to his own can. For giant secures if their not anchored anyone can scoop them afaik.
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Hohenheim OfLight
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Posted - 2006.01.02 17:30:00 -
[55]
The only reason we have can flaggin is becuse ccp refussed to deal with the actaul issue that we need a lot bigger sec cans.
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Contribute to the buy Hohenheim a carrier fund in game now! |
Clytamnestra
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Posted - 2006.01.02 17:57:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Hohenheim OfLight
The only reason we have can flaggin is becuse ccp refussed to deal with the actaul issue that we need a lot bigger sec cans.
Not really, we had can flagging because everyone thought it seemed silly that someone could just fly up to your jet-can and take what he wanted from it and you couldn't retaliate.
It's bewildering to me seeing that so many people seem to think that this enables players to attack miners in high-sec. It doesn't, it enables miners in high-sec to attack players stealing their ore.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.01.02 18:25:00 -
[57]
I think the problem is this, the new flagging mechanics do not truly allow you to take action on your thief, people are epxloiting a very poorly thought out system by essentially tranferring the flagging back on the miner. IE the thief can take from you, let a friend take from him and you no longer can take back your ore without becoming flagged yourself.
It needs to be fixed, because you should never gbet flagged by simply taking back stuff stolen from you, nor is it reasonable to expect a miner type to be able to combat some tricked out pvp griefer who has all trained for combat who is using a BS like this scenario. I mean for real any jack arse can use the 14 day trial use shuttles and pull this off himself.
Sorry I really doubt this sytem was made to have people flagged who pick up thier own stuff. Ya i am against jet can mining without penalty ( ie the chance to loose your hard work jet canned ), but from a common sense standpoint if ccp gonna take my money to develop something for the game I want it to atleast do what it was ment to do, this clearly isnt that this is simply another terrible loophole to allow weenies to grief people rather than steal ore.
Either everyone who touches that stolen ore with in 15 minutes gets flagged or make it so you get 15 minutes to grab back your stuff before you will be flagged. See then there is a check and balance in play so when poeople try this crap they are NOT sitting thier safely in a BS waiting for a weaker foe to try to take the loot back, instead they are flagged and you just might been bringing in 3 BS who can jack this fool up....
IE put some of the risk onto the actual griefers for once instead of the players, wanna grief? go for it but you might get a rude surprise... right now can't happen because that guy in the BS who is a carebear doesnt become flagged, so he is a safe little carebear..... Needs to change if CCP is gonna continue the can flagging nonesense they never should have wasted time on to start with.
PS. anyone who disagrees with my post is simply a gutsless carebear greifer who wants to safely have chances to shoot industrial types, instead of getting out to 0.0 and pvp'ing with other pvp types.
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Clytamnestra
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Posted - 2006.01.02 18:38:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
<snip>
PS. anyone who disagrees with my post is simply a gutsless carebear greifer who wants to safely have chances to shoot industrial types, instead of getting out to 0.0 and pvp'ing with other pvp types.
Thank you for removing any kind of credibility from your post.
Here's a point I've been trying to make - before RMR, when someone stole your ore, you got frustrated and had to go somewhere else to mine. Or wait until the thief left.
After RMR, you can go somewhere else to mine or wait out the thief. Or you can retaliate. That's the only difference, really. But that doesn't really even the odds of a mining barge going up against a battleship - nor should it. If you are able to retaliate, then by all means do so. If not, get your friends in on it, or go somewhere else to mine. That's all there is to it.
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Kal Oman
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Posted - 2006.01.02 19:10:00 -
[59]
7 players, 1 in a shuttle, 1 in a BS, and 5 hovering around waiting to pounce on the miners if they retaliate.
For
A BS full of Ore in high sec. Value: 100,000isk?
Can flagging is working in this case. It risked 7 people serveral minutes of wasted time. I will not be able to stop laughing if 7 people pull a stunt on me for 3 min of mining.
Just relax, don't shoot and watch the circus.
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Ion Shape
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Posted - 2006.01.03 11:23:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
It needs to be fixed, because you should never gbet flagged by simply taking back stuff stolen from you
U nailed it m8!!
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Sorry I really doubt this sytem was made to have people flagged who pick up thier own stuff. Ya i am against jet can mining without penalty ( ie the chance to loose your hard work jet canned ), but from a common sense standpoint if ccp gonna take my money to develop something for the game I want it to atleast do what it was ment to do, this clearly isnt that this is simply another terrible loophole to allow weenies to grief people rather than steal ore.
Either everyone who touches that stolen ore with in 15 minutes gets flagged or make it so you get 15 minutes to grab back your stuff before you will be flagged. See then there is a check and balance in play so when poeople try this crap they are NOT sitting thier safely in a BS waiting for a weaker foe to try to take the loot back, instead they are flagged and you just might been bringing in 3 BS who can jack this fool up....
IE put some of the risk onto the actual griefers for once instead of the players, wanna grief? go for it but you might get a rude surprise... right now can't happen because that guy in the BS who is a carebear doesnt become flagged, so he is a safe little carebear..... Needs to change if CCP is gonna continue the can flagging nonesense they never should have wasted time on to start with.
Agree !!
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
PS. anyone who disagrees with my post is simply a gutsless carebear greifer who wants to safely have chances to shoot industrial types, instead of getting out to 0.0 and pvp'ing with other pvp types.
Really HEAD ON 
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