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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.02 17:59:00 -
[1]
the old paperback strategy guide from back when the game first came out also listed the ships crew numbers. just to throw more fuel on the fire.
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.02 21:18:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: BrerLapin
Their called RP ****s & basically their all sad little men :D
If you can justify your arguement you state logical facts,
That has been done a multitude of times, try reading the entire thread before you reply.
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.02 21:18:00 -
[3]
Originally by: ZYMOTICAL
You guys are taking this way too far.
The guy who posted above said "I'm going to ram CCP's ways down your throat."
Well, no you're not. I'll roleplay however I want to, and you can't do a damn thing about it. My ships have no crew, its all automated. So sorry that doesn't mesh with your ideal of the EVE universe. Deal with it.
You kinda miss the point. While you are right in that you can rp it anyway you want, the point being debated here is highlighted in your quote
"so sorry that doesn't mesh with your ideal of..."
Go back to the "your" part of that. We are debating, basically, what CCP's rp view on the situation is, he isn't saying he is going to cram his personal views down your throat so much as he is going to cram CCP's personal views down it. And considering that CCP designed the game, most give thier view a bit more weight.
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.02 22:41:00 -
[4]
Originally by: ZYMOTICAL
Originally by: Rychek
As far as "feeding" your crew, I assume you know how dumb that comparison is. As you don't ever have to "feed" yourself either, or clean the crap off the inside of your pod for that matter. Somethings are better left to the imagination.
Don't forget the "official" strategy guide had the crew numbers in it.
Regardless, I never said you had to, or 'should' for that matter, roleplay any way other than how YOU want too. Don't be so defensive.
No, I don't consider it a dumb comparison. It's not hard to imagine that the pod systems sustain my body and that nutrients are acquired whenever I dock. If I were the only one on board my battleship, there is plenty of space to store such nutrients and they could easily be abstracted out.
The same cannot be said if you try to feed *6000* people for any length of time. Hauling around that much food cannot be 'abstracted out'.
Well if your going to ignore the rest of my response, Ill ignore this one.
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.02 23:58:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Amaii Templ
(Which can be loosely described as the art of bribing Einstein to steal Newton's shirt, rob it of it's pocket change, and then sell it back to Newton,)
Ahh, if only all physics classes could be taught with such wit and subtlety school would be a much better place.
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.04 06:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Rychek on 04/01/2006 06:38:17
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
"You must wait while the rest of the crew boards this vessel before activating another ship."
There you go
its in game
its specific
its in the right time frame
suck on it.
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.05 00:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
Yeh, good post Nikolai.
Originally by: Shemar
What I will focus on is why some people are so opposed to the idea of crews.
There are many players that PvP regularly and lose significant amounts of ships. Based on the numbers given, that would mean that they have several thousands (maybe even in the millions) of crew deaths in their hands (both friendly and enemy crews). While for a non-role player that means nothing, for those that role play characters that would normally care about others it is an issue.
Here-in lies the crux of the matter, I'm glad you pointed it out Shemar. As so many posts in this thread point out the background setting for this game is ships have crews. There's no debate on this, beyond 'I dont care' or 'I choose not to believe it'.
I think you've hit the nail on the head on why its so hard for people to accept (myself included intially). But it also brings up why its so vital to accept for excellent role-play. Too many people cannot distinguish the Eve 'verse from real life. We are not all post-modern, humanist, equalitarian, politically correct types here in Eve. We are the elite, chosen becase we very few can make pod technology work without it killing us. As has been pointed out we are valued much more highly than our crews, despite what we as players may think of that. Even the very best among us, the most purely motivated, are killers, if only due to negligence. How many mining crews have been lost due to the pilot being afk? 
The RP challenge is to deal with this fact. IMO to say you don't have a crew is in 90% of cases a cop out, a lame way to fill in for a lack of imagination.
The IGS forum is full of this sorta watered down pap. It bores me to tears. Where is the glory of the warrior, the tragedy of his/her losses, the bitter pain of untold deaths on our hands?
If you truely play a humanitarian who cannot accept the lives of your crew are lost when you lose a ship, then work out how to RP that - let it affect your game-play. Don't fly BS's, hell don't fly cruisers. Perhaps don't judge the worth of your ship based on your wallet, but on the lives it holds within.
Come-on, surely we all have far more fertile and vivid imaginations than the need to not come across as killer of millions in the public eye allows? This stuff should inspire great RP, not encourage lame cop-outs cos you can't face the reality of crew death.
well put :)
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.05 18:17:00 -
[8]
I bet we would only be on page 4 of this if we didn't keep having to restate ourselves for the people that didn't read any of the previous posts.
people...don't post unless you read everything.
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.06 08:36:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Rychek on 06/01/2006 08:36:56
Originally by: BrerLapin
Sounds logical. Isnt it sad that the Dogmatics ignored your reasoning & logic, they must be women ;D.
Erris Veloce - Whats the exact date of Forsakken Ruins within the mythos ? last week, 6 months, 10 years 100 years ago. the Anabasis discusses biremes but I assume the modern navay in 2005 doesnt use those venerable wooden hulls anymore.
Nikolai - Where does it state in the prime fiction that the pod doesnt allow you alone to fly the ship ? As to the fiction it needs to be dated to be current state of the eve universe reference source.
Halunoto Vankaalen - Well youd be the expert at spotting ignorance wouldnt you. Where does it say Forsaken Ruins is a modern tale ?
I love the way the Dogma of the electronic word is taken. Its like a religion. Until CCP say Aye or Nae. Its a subject of discussion not a solid fact. OMG OMG OMG BUT PRIME FICTION
is just that fiction, none of the tales are dated relative to the current state of play see above. You think Sharpe is a good indicator of the modern infantrymans experience ?
All prime fiction states is that ships HAD crews. OMG OMG OMG but in beta we had pictures that said the ships had crews. Of course you fekking did the ships are RETRO fitted with pod technology. As an aside OMG OMG OMG my ship has windows ? How the hell do you know they are windows ? They just look like windows. You ever seen into them or seen anyone looking out of one ? & yet again ships HAD windows for a now obselete crew.
RIGHT back to the prime fiction so whats the Minmatar justificiation for killing hundreds of their crews ? Their an anti-slavery race so its not binding contracts. OMG OMG OMG life is cheap WRONG not a good excuse. Justiify a minmatar crew ?
Never mind the kittuns ph3ar the Dogmatics.
Oh & some utter idiot said a machine AI etc couldnt do the repair tasks & who tidies up inside the haulers. Yeah cause no machines widely available today have hoovers or hydraulic arms. & yet again we are in a high tech modular environ everything slots in neatly none of this messy jury rigging. Why do you think all your jetcans look alike & all your weapons fit.
WOOF WOOF Dogma scares kittuns
lol I kept trying to figure out how to reply to this thread and I just kept c r a c k i n g (thats filtered?) up.
like a 4 year old with a new word. Its even in his sig.
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.06 08:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: BrerLapin
Yeah good response their Rychek thats given us all something to think about.
Oh wait no your just trolling never mind.
I wouldn't have to troll if your dogmatic dogma didn't dog down the dogmaclastic dogmachina of the dogtastic thread.
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.06 10:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: BrerLapin
I personally think the ships dont have crews simply because although they are alluded to in PF they arent a factor of the game & alot of races there isnt great justification of their use. Minmatar cultural mores & it was pointed out in-game that the Gallente use drones & therefore are a machine culture relying on automation.
The definition of "crew" here isn't specific to humans, and alot of people seem to be making the assumption that it is. Drones/automation and "crews" could very well be one and the same in many cases.
Quote:
Also the fact that the most logical reasoning the pro-crew opinion can muster is 'because PF says so'. How blindly we follow a name & a badge ehh?
Did you skip the 5+ pages of other reasons? And sticking to the lore isn't exactly "blindly following". Would you decide half way through "lord of the rings" that hobbits should be called leprechauns?
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.06 18:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: BrerLapin
So your response to dogs is to insult them, were you scared as a child by one?
He insulted you because barking in a coversation is immature and disrespectful to everyone involved. And a bit insane on your part.
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As to the final entry, Ive seen nothing other than prime fiction (not dated, Im sorry did you pull Hands of a killers date out your ass or what? Oh the author says it set last week does CCP agreed with him & if so why isnt it DATED), Soon tm & the references from the Minmatar crew rescue that the game actually has crews.
Beta pics
Prime fiction
the "official" strategy guide
And finally, in-game references when swapping ships to fast when docked.
All of these have been mentioned, but you either ignored them or overlooked them.
Quote:
In addition our guns are exterior mounted & guided by the pod pilot. No gunery crews. So what we have a cargo gang & a repair crew. These can easily be replaced by machines.
indeed, however the definition of "crew" doesn't exclude the idea that a crew can be machines. A point I made earlier and you ignored.
Please respond, Id like to know how you conviently missed all these points as Im simply restating things that have already been posted in this thread.
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.07 07:01:00 -
[13]
BrerLapin; care to reply to your critics? myself included. And really reply...not some nonsensical conjecture.
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.08 05:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: BrerLapin
however if you cant offer any reasonable explainations against your detractors other than citing Prime Fiction you have no legs to stand on. Your original post offered no evidence either merely stating read these & beleive ( Note believe, not reason these facts) or your an idiot.
Interesting that you choose to ignore my reasons other than prime fiction, Ive only stated them three times now, and once specifically for you.
Quote:
Sad as hell that you sat waiting for me to reply Rychek seriously get a life pal. 
I see your in the buisness of making ASSumptions. I reply TWELVE hours later (after having gone to bed) and you think I was waiting the whole time?
I guess now its obvious whats more sad. People that *think* they know whats going on, when they are really just imagining it.
Quote:
Pro-crews opinions border on the fanatical denial & strict adherence to the scriptures (I can spot a cult when I see it)whilst con-crew opinions are based on mebbes & possiblys & logical reasoning of the EVE enviroment.
Its becoming obivous that rational conversation is beyond you. We give facts, your give conjecture.
I say: what about the "official" strategy guide
you say: Why aren't you being logical
Now THATS ironic.
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.08 19:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: BrerLapin
LMFAO I have more beta era strategy guides than you can shake a stick at. Try readng the eratta :D
Try reading my entire replies and not just the parts you think are easy to argue.
Here Ill quote myself for you.
Quote:
Beta pics
Prime fiction
the "official" strategy guide
And finally, in-game references when swapping ships to fast when docked.
And your response:
Quote:
The pro sides kneejerk response is screaming the words prime fiction
Starting to understand now? you ignored much of the evidence until someone finally beat the idea into you.
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.08 22:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: BrerLapin
Your onto a loser there mate. Even Nikolai agrees with me that hes never seen the swapping crews text.
Ok lets tally.
Yes they have crews:
Beta pics
ingame reference (debatable as it might be)
strategy guide
prime fiction
message file in /res/
No they have no crews:
...dogma
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Rychek
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Posted - 2006.01.09 21:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: BrerLapin
Edited by: BrerLapin on 09/01/2006 10:50:15
Originally by: Discorporation
Brother Rabbit is the best troll I've seen in months on this board 
Worthy of Callas' mantle, to be honest [:d]
Yes takes one to know one.
Rychek - Beta ( If it uses beta materials its for beta ) strategy guide & Beta pics arent admissible their conjecture. Just drop it son. You have
Ingame reference to a rescue slave crew mission (Not debatable the dodgy jpg no ones found a way to get the message, no debate in it if its not repeatable)
prime fiction
& ada wong found
message file in /res/
Which is the proof I was looking for.
You missed the point. To make a good case its not enough to dismiss your oppositions "proof" but you have to supply some of your own.
Even if there was no proof that crews exist (which there is, Im glad we agree on that), we would still need proof that they don't exist before we fall back to that conclusion. even an outdated mention from beta would trump a complete lack of a case that there are no crews.
Thats why beta references DO matter right now...because until the "no crew" side has atleast ONE reference to their case, you have to take something over nothing.
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