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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Acwron
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Posted - 2006.01.03 16:58:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Acwron on 03/01/2006 17:06:00
 Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Omber Zombie
i'm sure I could round up some slaves, erm, students, to help start documenting everything if someone wants to help setup the initial framework. this type of project would fit nicely with the uni's goals...
Kind of misses the point of CCP doing something "official", OZ. There's already a dozen sites out there that try to consolidate this stuff, but there is only one group of people who know exactly what is right and wrong - the people who make the game.
The problem is that we are already past the point that the devs exactly know whats going on. It's actually no big surprise considering the size of EVE as a project (the same happens all the time in the industry).
(just look at the Carriers' Bonuses or the implementation of the new Production Changes (RAM) but what am I telling you? :)
I concour with Oz that the only practical way of documentation at the moment would be a wiki and I am sure in order to make it a success, just like you said, it needs to be offical.
Perhaps something along a dev approved stamp under a finished, player written article in the wiki.
PS: actually the Outpost information was on the forum some weeks ago. :)
edit: typo
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Montague Zooma
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Posted - 2006.01.03 17:24:00 -
[32]
I don't mind having to figure out certain aspects of the game on my own, but there definitely seems to be a shortage of basic documentation. The Player Guide and Item Database help, but that's barely the tip of the iceberg.
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Zembla
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Posted - 2006.01.03 17:31:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Zembla on 03/01/2006 17:31:54
Originally by: Clytamnestra
I think this is one of the charms of the game.
Sure it's a great deal of fun to find out the stuff on your own, kind of awakens the explorer inside everyone of us... but then again, you don't always have the time, and sometimes it's fun to work with a manual.
EVE started off as a simple piece of IKEA furniture. You could assemble this little cupboard without the need for a manual. But gradually this cupboard's started to expand, up until the point where EVE's now more like a whole living room with furniture. Noone's forcing you to read the manual, but I'm sure it would be more practical to have one just in case.
A manual doesn't necessarily have to be an encyclopedia about all the mysteries in the game, there is plenty of stuff you can still find out outside of the manual.
On more than one occasion I've thought a manual could be useful. Learning is a process of falling down and getting back up, but don't be fooled, even with a manual you can fall down. Maybe think of the manual more of a coursetext on maths. Sure, integral theory might be explained, but the only way to get to be proficient with it is by getting your hands 'dirty'
I personally think a manual could be a great addition. With the increasing complexity of EVE I think its value will only grow larger.
So, in short, great initiative, I hope it will be heard.
<Z>
Spread the Z |
Deliz Seemack
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Posted - 2006.01.03 17:41:00 -
[34]
Signed!
__________________________________________________
-He conquers who endures.
-Never underestimate game companies' greed. |
000Hunter000
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Posted - 2006.01.03 17:48:00 -
[35]
Hehe there are so many things i found out by either purchasing the item and trying it out on corpmates and by asking on the forum.
An eve library with an in depth explanation of certain items and their workings would surely be appreciated, but also don't be afraid to ask your question on the forums. If ur afraid ur asking a st00pid question then so be it but atleast chances are u will get atleast 1 usefull answer out of it.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2006.01.03 17:50:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Zembla
A manual doesn't necessarily have to be an encyclopedia about all the mysteries in the game, there is plenty of stuff you can still find out outside of the manual.
No, but it wouldn't hurt. Hell, it could be RP'd in game as a kind of central repository for information, like the Jedi Archives.
Let the Servant Sisters of EVE manage it or something. Players could contribute, their submissions would be reviewed and added.
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Savage Quell
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Posted - 2006.01.03 19:02:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Savage Quell on 03/01/2006 19:03:16
I lost a Full high grade Halo implant set and a Full low grade Crystal implant set because I logged off 14 minutes after being engaged in pvp (about a month ago, before RMR).
It was nowhere documented that the pvp-timer resets when you log off. So what happened is that my 2 characters remained in space for another 15 minutes and got probed and podded.
Requests for reimbursal were subsequently denied, and I was told that this feature would be more properly documented. 
Edit: my point is that lack of game documentation can have severe consequences and it badly needs an update!
______________________________________
Unintended consequences of purposive action. |
Caztra Tor
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Posted - 2006.01.03 19:10:00 -
[38]
/signed
I spent 50 mill on the drone control mod bpo, then found out it works only on capital ships. Oh, me o my, that is going to be a booming market.
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Drunken Claptrap
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Posted - 2006.01.03 19:14:00 -
[39]
/me signs
Draft Beer Not People |
Carl Bowmore
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Posted - 2006.01.03 21:48:00 -
[40]
Signed.
(Seleene threatend with alliance-wide mining ops in Jita if more MC-members didn't sign.  )
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.03 22:11:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Winterblink
Searchable, robustly
Okay Winter, now I KNOW you're trolling CCP. They can't even make the forums searcble and you want searchable DOCS? 
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Waagaa Ktlehr
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Posted - 2006.01.03 22:29:00 -
[42]
Some kind of website that's the most "recent" online documentation would suffice for me.
But yeah, some kind of "user manual" would definitely not hurt at all. You guys must have something like that internally for coding purposes anyway :)
------------------------------------------
I am a love machine, feeding my fantasy, give me a kiss or three, have fun! |
Creyster
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Posted - 2006.01.04 00:14:00 -
[43]
Signed.. Yes this is needed .. AND a proper way to ask the devs/gm/isd or some other moho that knows. I remember back whe the conqurestation came in 0.0 and we asked a gm how come things didnt work and the GM dint know that there where new stations in 0.0. If ccp cant fix that aleast give me a phone number so i can call oveur in the midle of the night and ask...
-masken
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Borothis Quishir
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Posted - 2006.01.04 00:42:00 -
[44]
This is the kind of job ccp should hire cheap slave labor interns for. Im sure some ppl in here would love a job like that.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.01.04 00:55:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Savage Quell
Edited by: Savage Quell on 03/01/2006 19:03:16
I lost a Full high grade Halo implant set and a Full low grade Crystal implant set because I logged off 14 minutes after being engaged in pvp (about a month ago, before RMR).
It was nowhere documented that the pvp-timer resets when you log off. So what happened is that my 2 characters remained in space for another 15 minutes and got probed and podded.
Requests for reimbursal were subsequently denied, and I was told that this feature would be more properly documented.
Edit: my point is that lack of game documentation can have severe consequences and it badly needs an update!
If you can't afford to find out the basic operation of PvP you can't afford to undock, simple as that.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Jahlina Kantar
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Posted - 2006.01.04 01:09:00 -
[46]
agree.
I've been playing this game nearly 2 years total. And only just starting to appreciate all the details, mathematics, and intricate mechanics behind all the systems, weapons, and general gameplay. Much isnt explained. Not only that, it's very hard to find solid information explaining what we have a right to know - how things work.
In-game info is dismal. Please update some of the item descriptions. Not only to give the game a little warmth and background, but to specifically explain the functions and limitations of the said item. Some item descriptions are so short, it almost seems sarcastic. The manual is also hopelessly out of date and brief. I'd hate to be a new player these days. I've even seen long term players still confused over the basics. And I dont blame them. Sometimes you spend ages testing things and finding out how they really work, then a patch comes and it's all changed.
The information is out there, if you search around the forums long enough. There are some darn good pages. But you also have to wade through pages of people talking about stuff when they are totally wrong, or out of date.
An official eve manual/database section explaining all the specifics of EW/guns/missiles/modules/exotic equipment, their limitations, how they work, and heck, why not a few tips and strategies thrown in too, would benefit everybody.
Then you could truly say "RTFM" to people who are asking dumb questions, because a definitive manual WOULD exist and save people a lot of time
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FowlPlayChiken
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Posted - 2006.01.04 04:45:00 -
[47]
signed. help teh noobs
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Seleene
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Posted - 2006.01.04 10:01:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Carl Bowmore
Signed.
(Seleene threatend with alliance-wide mining ops in Jita if more MC-members didn't sign. )
Jita was mined out last night. Move over to Perimeter or something.
Originally by: Jahlina Kantar
Then you could truly say "RTFM" to people who are asking dumb questions, because a definitive manual WOULD exist and save people a lot of time
RTFM 4TW! 
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DEVS, JUMP DRIVE MAP PLEASE? |
Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2006.01.04 10:57:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Carl Bowmore
Signed.
(Seleene threatend with alliance-wide mining ops in Jita if more MC-members didn't sign. )
Jita was mined out last night. Move over to Perimeter or something.
Sel, what did i tell you about being a slave-abusing tyrant?
Be direct, don't let them use their imagination - always make them think you will whip them.
i think you need to pay me for more classes, you obviously slept through the last ones. 
----------------------
Originally by: Seleene
I maintain that OZ is evil and have nothing further to add.
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JP Beauregard
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Posted - 2006.01.04 11:02:00 -
[50]
Yup, I fully agree. The lack of decent documentation has been a pet peeve since launch and it has only gotten worse with every patch that made EVE more complex.
Hard to believe in retrospect but I was actualy dumb enough to be excited about the first edition of the player guide when they released that thing with Exodus. Excited, until I found out that most of the guide had been copied from player-written material by CCP's CMO. Of course that thing has never been updated with any semblance of method or purpose. And that simply won't do.
There is one other major problem with documentation and if you have ever spent any amount of time in the various Help channels, you know that problem. People don't read documentation. Sadly, that is a valid reason not create any when you're swamped with other work.
JP Beauregard
====================================
Yet to be plagiarized: The New Pilkington Guides to EVE |
Zoriander
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Posted - 2006.01.04 11:10:00 -
[51]
/signed
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Minuz1
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Posted - 2006.01.04 11:11:00 -
[52]
/signed
The Tech 2 Lottery is rigged, In my favor! |
Iome
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Posted - 2006.01.04 11:12:00 -
[53]
/signed as well
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2006.01.04 11:24:00 -
[54]
In my opinion the Player Guide should be turned into an encyclopedia, where you can add what you know, have it reviewed and then added to the guide. Sort of like Wikipedia.
And I agree, there's just not enough documentation. Asking the devs to do it would be a little too much though. The players and ISD could easily handle it with the help of good script.
/me glances at t20
Mai's Idealog |
BobBarker
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Posted - 2006.01.04 13:07:00 -
[55]
/bump
This is first page material.
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2006.01.04 13:17:00 -
[56]
Its a good idea, a manual is really needed. Trouble is, everything always changes and its not always in the patch notes and half the time you dont know what half your modules do anymore :)
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- Just a simple Ultimate Undeniable Underdog.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2006.01.04 14:12:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino
Its a good idea, a manual is really needed. Trouble is, everything always changes and its not always in the patch notes and half the time you dont know what half your modules do anymore :)
Don't EVEN get me started on the patch notes.
Ok, here we go.
The patch notes are the worst offenders of the bunch, if you ask me. If they don't release a client patch in the next 12 months all of the changes they hotfix at the server end go undocumented (publicly speaking of course).
That means if some guy somewhere in the game finds a bug that affects everyone and has been affecting everyone without their knowledge, until a client patch comes out you won't know it was fixed or that it was ever there. Does that seem right to you?
I've used this example before, but it's pretty bad when you can say that SOE is more diligent with the public patch notes for games like EQ, regardless of what was fixed and whether it was a client or server fix.
Disclaimer: I obviously enjoy this game a lot, I just see some room for improvement in this area. :)
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Calisto Cody
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Posted - 2006.01.04 14:33:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Borothis Quishir
This is the kind of job ccp should hire cheap slave labor interns for. Im sure some ppl in here would love a job like that.
/signed
and /signed for the intern position
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Jerrod Syn
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Posted - 2006.01.04 16:26:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Savage Quell
Edited by: Savage Quell on 03/01/2006 19:03:16
I lost a Full high grade Halo implant set and a Full low grade Crystal implant set because I logged off 14 minutes after being engaged in pvp (about a month ago, before RMR).
Edit: my point is that lack of game documentation can have severe consequences and it badly needs an update!
While my loss was not as severe as you, (Only a full set of +3 implants), the undocumented "You can't jump through a gate for 30 seconds after switching ships" bit caught me. I was popped by gate campers, but had managed to get within activation range of the gate. By the time it fully registered what the pop up box was saying, bye bye pod.
The game NEEDS to have more complete documentation somewhere.
A open contribution Wikipedia with DEV/ISS approval before a post is made public would be ideal.
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Savage Quell
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Posted - 2006.01.04 16:39:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Jerrod Syn
Originally by: Savage Quell
Edited by: Savage Quell on 03/01/2006 19:03:16
I lost a Full high grade Halo implant set and a Full low grade Crystal implant set because I logged off 14 minutes after being engaged in pvp (about a month ago, before RMR).
Edit: my point is that lack of game documentation can have severe consequences and it badly needs an update!
While my loss was not as severe as you, (Only a full set of +3 implants), the undocumented "You can't jump through a gate for 30 seconds after switching ships" bit caught me. I was popped by gate campers, but had managed to get within activation range of the gate. By the time it fully registered what the pop up box was saying, bye bye pod.
The game NEEDS to have more complete documentation somewhere.
A open contribution Wikipedia with DEV/ISS approval before a post is made public would be ideal.
A friend of mine has lost more than 1 ship/pod like that 
______________________________________
Unintended consequences of purposive action. |
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