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Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
342
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Posted - 2013.08.29 13:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:I wouldn't want to remove skill training completely, since then you take away the player development progression aspect of the MMORPG. But, your approach would remove them eventually.
Given the slim possibility that CCP would even consider your idea and the (astronomically) tiny chance that CPP would even do as you ask, some other skills would become the new "Must have" skill after the so called core skills have been removed. Eventually someone would propose the very same idea about that skill as well. And for the next and for next after that.
And then they're all gone, skills, different ship fits, players, fun. Stuff like that, just like that.
There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699
Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
bloodknight2
Talledega Knights
PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
202
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Posted - 2013.08.29 13:23:00 -
[32] - Quote
Is this the worst idea ever?
I think so. |
Zaxix
Long Jump.
214
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:Some people won't be satified 'til they remove one of the C's from CCP.
The C's aren't the problem; it's the P. It is clearly overpowered, doesn't fit the style of the previous two letters, and it breaks immersion.
Bokononist
-á |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
1199
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
I think EVE should be more like Galaga. Everyone has the same skills, and there's still only one butan to bonk, and the only fitting you ever need is to stick another ship next to the ship you're already in for twice the firepower.
Sounds good, OP!
Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Gritstone
The Graduates
RAZOR Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.08.29 16:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
I hate to say it, but I cannot agree with this proposal, you identify the core skill train as 129 days. You state that these should be removed as everyone has them, but that is the viewpoint of a established vet.
Through these skills new players learn early that training is an exercise in opportunity cost. Whereas the learning skills were a terrible idea, the core skills teach new players to make decisions based on priorities that they themselves identify. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
222
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Wolfgang Achari wrote:[quote=Phaade]This is the case with practically every other RPG that you can play. In Skyrim, if I equip the same gear on an old toon that I have on a new one I'm still going to be more effective with the old one. Sure in most other RPG's you can grind for XP to gain new skills faster, but most of the time when you're doing that you're not improving as a player. Which in EVE is arguably more important to do given the number of available game mechanics available that allow lower SP players to make up for that deficit.
*Apparently I took to long to hit submit the first time in case you see a blank post.
This basically. No game has ever , imo, ever solved the riddle of mixing noob and vet very well. Eve however has the best happy medium I think.
Other games solutions I have seen include tiered pvp and buffing in the pvp "lakes".
Tiered pvp....use the warhammer model. 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, 30 on up instanced pvp. Solved the level 40's smashing noob problem....however the noob can't roll with his friend till noob levels up or vet rolls a new alt.
Buffing....the level 21 is buffed a bit stat wise to run against level 30's. Sort of what this idea in this thread is. doesn't really work though. Yay you have buffed stats but are missing a few casts on the toolbar the higher level has. Depending on MMO, those casts are real frigging nice. Our noob has has boosted ehp and such...still can get their ass handed to them.
Enter eve. No tiers and while the noob may not want the job in a short time frame can roll with his friend as a tackle/scout. This role does not need cores maxed out. Not a glamorous job but eseential. No fast tackles in the fleet, stuff is getting away more often.
For the buffing....when this didn't even in other game there was always noob zerg rush. 10 level 30's fair a better chance of bringing down the level 40. This works in eve as well. 10 half competent noobs should bring down an average player in a bigger ship.
After we wake up from the dream of fair 1 v 1 pvp in eve we get the bitter reality its just not common. Also the bitter reality ccp can never balance skills based on 1 v 1. When the dust settled....we'd have almost no skills left in eve. I playing devils advocate could say its unfair as a laser or hybrid user I need a gun skill to reduce cap use for guns. Pull it and now everone is capless weapons. Or I have to train falloff skill harder than minmatar to squeeze out falloff they get naturally. Or minmatar has this skill to boost natural ship bonuses. Sooo....we pull trajectory analysis to make me happy. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
White Mountain Coalition
332
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:47:00 -
[37] - Quote
No, to the op, terrible Idea. I've earned my skills and like the edge they give me. I also liked the learning skills. You are mistaking raw SP with ability in the field which are two different things. I like the feeling of accomplishment that my training queue gives me, despite this I have been killed by lower SP characters many times. The playing field is more even than you think.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
4030
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Posted - 2013.08.30 02:14:00 -
[38] - Quote
My market alt doesn't need those skills.
My invention alt doesn't need those skills.
My mining & gas harvesting alt only needs some of those skills.
Training all those skills makes clones more expensive.
Learning how to fit ships with low skills encourages people to think outside the box.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
RAZOR Alliance
192
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Posted - 2013.08.30 03:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:
Training all those skills makes clones more expensive.
That is why I didn't propose it that way. Rather, all those skills would be built into the hulls. Those skills would not longer exist in the game as I envision it.
I get that a lot of people like the game the way it currently exists. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
Cosmic Consortium
4032
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Posted - 2013.08.30 03:36:00 -
[40] - Quote
My point is that training those skills is a choice that has consequences.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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Tibo Paralian
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Imperial Outlaws.
5
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Posted - 2013.08.30 04:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
I've earned my skills and like the edge they give me.
The playing field is more even than you think.
Right... |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
2490
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Posted - 2013.08.30 04:04:00 -
[42] - Quote
0/10
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
RAZOR Alliance
192
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Posted - 2013.08.30 04:55:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:My point is that training those skills is a choice that has consequences.
Okay, understood. I thought you were making a slightly different point with that line. |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
44
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Posted - 2013.08.30 08:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
I have a habit of starting new characters and selling my old ones. The skill grind makes the gap to being competitive (eg. Alliance tournament team member) take at least half a year, preferably a full year for a t1 support frigate.
However, this is the very nature of EVE. The learning grind and the fact that there are both newbies and veterans is valuable for the sandbox. The opposite is a themepark, where being a newbie just means leveling up to the real game. In EVE, the content is not level capped and newbies get to play the real game, too.
The single most important ability in EVE is dedication and social ability. A dedicated pilot can reach an important corp/alliance role fast. The grunt will remain a grunt unless he really wants to do something more. The secret is this: there are 10 year old newbie pilots in the social hierarchy, and one year old leaders. |
ConranAntoni
Empyrean Warriors
Insidious Empire
77
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Posted - 2013.08.30 09:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
I want to believe this is a troll but OP is a RAZOR pilot so you never know. |
Xio Zheng
EVE University
Ivy League
6
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Posted - 2013.08.30 10:58:00 -
[46] - Quote
Dear OP,
No, your idea is terible. If you look at players with 50+ mil sp the majority of their sp is in spaceship cmd. Some of us chose to truly specialie when we started. I for one am at almost 40m sp and can only fly amarr and can't fly BS yet. My core skills are something I'm proud of and I will attack almost anyone regardless of age because of that.
The thing is though, if you put a new player in a fight with an older player give them both the same ship, fitting, and skills and guess what will happen. The new player will loose every time. He will burn out his mods, get slingshot, not OH at all, reload at the wrong time, cap himself out, orbit at optimal and since he has full navigation get pushed out a few k and not know why. I mean there are so many aspects of flying a ship that have nothing to do with skills. In fact the margin for error when piloting with high skills is smaller because you are faster more agile, can fit more and thus must manage cap where a single cycle of the wrong mod at the wrong time can mean your dead, your overheating everything all the time and must know exactly when to turn off OH in order to not burn out while still keeping it on long enough to out preform your oponent. Honestly I could go on all day.
The point, new players will die with and without skills in eve. Your idea is bad. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
RAZOR Alliance
197
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Posted - 2013.08.30 14:22:00 -
[47] - Quote
The Spod wrote:I have a habit of starting new characters and selling my old ones. The skill grind makes the gap to being competitive (eg. Alliance tournament team member) take at least half a year, preferably a full year for a t1 support frigate.
However, this is the very nature of EVE. The learning grind and the fact that there are both newbies and veterans is valuable for the sandbox. The opposite is a themepark, where being a newbie just means leveling up to the real game. In EVE, the content is not level capped and newbies get to play the real game, too.
The single most important ability in EVE is dedication and social ability. A dedicated pilot can reach an important corp/alliance role fast. The grunt will remain a grunt unless he really wants to do something more. The secret is this: there are 10 year old newbie pilots in the social hierarchy, and one year old leaders.
I'll accept this. I started this thread because I started a new pilot a few months ago. The plan was just to train him to fly T2 frigates - but to fly them very well. I got frustrated with seeing how long it takes to skill up a new pilot - even a fairly specialized one, even with all the advantages of knowing what skills I need, unlimited ISK to throw at the problem, good implants, perfectly planned and timed respecs, etc. I thought, "Man, if I am this frustrated training all these core skills as someone who has been playing and loving Eve for 6+ years, a lot of new players must get just as frustrated and quit along the way."
Obviously, those of us who have made it over that hump consider ourselves a rare breed.
From the responses I am getting, it is as if I suggested removing The Crucible from Marine Corps Boot Camp. No one enjoyed it, but they'll be damned if someone can wear the EGA unless they went through it.
Fair enough, core skills should remain in the game. Those who cannot suck it up and persevere past it just won't be long-term paying subscribers. If that is the price of the sandbox, then I'll take the sandbox. |
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