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Laythun	Posted - 2006.01.04 17:01:00 - [1] Originally by: Kyle Caldrel Edited by: Kyle Caldrel on 04/01/2006 16:53:26 cormorant can take out AF You sir need to stop posting silly commments /emote slaps BB See Me! http://195.225.8.195:7090/listen.[/url]
Laythun	Posted - 2006.01.04 17:22:00 - [2] Originally by: Estan Drake A destroyer could take out an inty or an AF.... Provided the Destroyer pilot is more skilled. Then again, most people don't train enough into destroyers. Thrasher could put a hurting on a Harpy or an ishkur in the right situation. Their kinetic/thermal resists wont do alot against 7X 200mm ACs firing EM/Explosive rounds every 1.5 seconds you havnt taken into account the rof penalty and the fact that 90% AF's are setup to tank See Me! http://195.225.8.195:7090/listen.[/url]
Laythun	Posted - 2006.01.05 01:05:00 - [3] i hear alot about destroyers 8 turrets etc etc. tbh with the 25% rof penalty, an af with its boni to dmg from its weaps can do more DOT than the destroyer, allied to there tanking capabilities means that a dessie is no match. skill or not i have fully fitted a t2 destoyer and it does pitiful dmg compared to my retribution that has exactly half the turret hp's, as for pvp all the older players for one know that an AF will last longer and hit harder and most faster than a destroyer. they know the hierachy AF > Destroyer = ceptor > t1 frig See Me! http://195.225.8.195:7090/listen.[/url]
Laythun	Posted - 2006.01.05 12:26:00 - [4] Edited by: Laythun on 05/01/2006 12:26:39 Originally by: Estan Drake Originally by: Laythun skill or not i have fully fitted a t2 destoyer and it does pitiful dmg compared to my retribution that has exactly half the turret hp's, as for pvp all the older players for one know that an AF will last longer and hit harder and most faster than a destroyer. they know the hierachy AF > Destroyer = ceptor > t1 frig Tech 2 destroyers are pretty much crap. You can't even fit a good set-up except maybe on the flycatcher, and even there it'd only pose a threat to aninterceptor. CCP has heavily pre-nerfed them much like the stealth bombers. Hopefully they will wise up and either drop the sig, up the resistances, or raise the CPU and PG sorry i wasnt clear when i said t2 destoyer, wat i meant was a destroyer fitted with t2 weapons. in response to saying older players dont fly destroyers. See Me! http://195.225.8.195:7090/listen.[/url]
Laythun	Posted - 2006.01.05 18:09:00 - [5] i think we should just have a big dust up, afs v destroyers on the test server. that wouold settle this. tbh i would put my isk on my retribution, no matter the setup of the destroyer (other than a ghey ew ship) See Me! http://195.225.8.195:7090/listen.[/url]
Laythun	Posted - 2006.01.05 19:05:00 - [6] tbh i was actually looking at it from the whole af v destroyer. fact is i do have experience with more than 1 race destory and AF. reasons for my bias is that i have used both in pvp and a find the destroyer a poor second, irrespective of value. in truth AF's should only cost around 3mil, but bpo owners made it the price it is now. so base prices would make the af only a 1 or 2 mil more expensive if u fully fit both with t2/best named gear. also the destroyer corner is assuming than you can fit a full rack of the same weaps on a dessie as u can on a af, u cant. thirdly, a dessie's rof penatly does mean a lot. you may be able to have 7 turrets firing blah blah vrs say 4 turrets but there are a hell of a lot of boni to take into account from the assault frigs point of view. the af has far more useful boni than the destroyer and ofc most are setup to tank. problem here is that you assume the dessi will be able to get aoff a couple of full volleys into the af before the af opens fire, this rarely happens ingame so we must not assume so. if someone could calculate base dot of the ships in question it would give up a better understanding. I still firmly belive that only an unskilled AF pilot would lose to a destoyer pilot. See Me! http://195.225.8.195:7090/listen.[/url]
Laythun	Posted - 2006.01.05 19:09:00 - [7] Originally by: Estan Drake Its been said over and over, AFs are whats cool at the moment while destroyers are looked upon as newb ships. It might not be able to kill all AFs in all situations but I think its also fair to say all AFs wont kill all destroyers either. no i fly destroyers to, fully fitted w/t2 gear when i weant to kill a whole bunch of t1 frigs at once Originally by: Estan Drake And lets face it, you can lose a fully fitted destroyer and its really not that big of a deal, they are widely avaiable and easy to build. Even with all tech 2 gear on it, it can cause a ruckus at a mere fraction of the cost of an AF and its fittings. If AF's came down to there 'proper' price then there would not be that big a gap in purchaing and fitting costs See Me! http://195.225.8.195:7090/listen.[/url]
Laythun	Posted - 2006.01.06 12:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Estan Drake I can fit a full rack of same weapons. It'll have no defense whatsoever if I put on Artys though, anyways Artys have the lowest DoT of any weap in the game and then figure in the RoF penalty and yes... if oyu can't kill em in one volley (which you can't unless you get really really lucky with wrecking hits and catch them with their hardners off) an arty destroyer is useless against an AF. With Auto cannon on the other hand you are only talking about a difference of a fraction of a second here with the penalty, which can be offset with skill training. What do you consider the formula for Damage over time to be? and Over how long a time? 10 seconds? A minute? Thoretical "best case" or practical? -I'll try get a corp mate on over the weekend in a harpy to see what the actual DoT is in a real game situation. I'm not so convinced the AF would kill a destroyer in a couple volleys especially if combat starts within 20km. Long range? Hands down the Af is gonna win against my set-up, but close range I don't think the guns will hit nearly as much when tracking comes into play. What do most of you fit on your harpy? I'm gonna assume rails rather than blasters. now your guilty of your own crime, its irrelevant whether its a harpy,enyo,retribution etc. skill training wont offset the 25% rof penalty at all, because the opposing AF will always fire faster because if you take skills into account the rof penalty is still there. outfit bothe ships w/e they are with the same weaps and the AF will fire faster and hit harder than the destoyer. when i log in im going to work out the dot of the AF's in my posession and compare them to the destoyers i own. witht he same weapons etc etc. and yes my friend a fraction of a second counts in mathmatical terms and equations. when traking come's into play, the destroyer does get a 25% bonus, as the af may be moving faster this can counter act the speed advantage that the af has but the as the dessie is going slower and has a higher sig the af doesnt need to any extra boni to get better hits on the destroyer. the AF is taking on a ship with a large mass and a larger sig so the af hits it easier than it would a normal frig See Me! http://195.225.8.195:7090/listen.[/url]
Laythun	Posted - 2006.01.06 13:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Imhotep Khem I took on a Crow (Interceptor). I started at the gate and was heading away @~ 20km when he jumped in. He started MWDing toward me. I locked him, painted him, then shot at him with 7x280mm. Took him to 1/2 shields. You know the rest... I have small arty spec IV, and most other gunnery skills at V except a few of the longer ones still at IV. although your response is valid. it has nothing to do with this discussion of assault frig vrs destroyers. See Me! http://195.225.8.195:7090/listen.[/url]
Laythun	Posted - 2006.01.07 00:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Ikvar Edited by: Ikvar on 06/01/2006 23:37:06 Set up and used properly, a Destroyer can give anything smaller than a BS that isn't a HAC or whatever a serious run for it's money. In SNIGG we used to do destroyer gangs for ****s and giggles and we killed a hell of a lot of stuff. For instance, using a Catalyst I can have more armor than an AF (less resists but meh) and do as much if not more DPS. The only reason everyone is like OMG LOL DESTROYERS SUCK AF > DESTROYER is because generally destroyers don't get flown by anyone except noobs therefore they don't get the ♥ they deserve. i may like you ♥ but your wrong. but atm i am too high to form a proper response, in the morning i will have one See Me! http://195.225.8.195:7090/listen.[/url]
Laythun	Posted - 2006.01.07 12:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Estan Drake Edited by: Estan Drake on 07/01/2006 07:38:10 (3) Jag has a smaller sig, but small guns can hit a 40m sig 100% of the time. I do not know how much difference 10m makes, but I would appreciate info on it. (4) Thrasher has better PG and CPU. why have you compared the worse minmater af against the destroyer? See Me! http://195.225.8.195:7090/listen.[/url]
Laythun	Posted - 2006.01.09 17:01:00 - [12] so in conclusion. I won this thread and ikvar came second. end. See Me! http://195.225.8.195:7090/listen.[/url]

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