Still think they should get a damage boost while in bastion mod.

Still think they should get a damage boost while in bastion mod.

It's gimmicky. These ships are EXTREMELY gimmicky.

Um... No.

These are not the changes I was hoping for, at all

Um... No.

These are not the changes I was hoping for, at all. Not only do they completely ignore a convention that was set up with HACs and other T2 ships (the Cerberus, Deimos, Stabber and Zealot all roughly seem to be T2 attack cruisers, for one thing), but... Well, It's gimmicky. These ships are EXTREMELY gimmicky. I've never liked MJDs due to how amazingly limited your motion becomes.

The Bastion module is complete and total overkill. The huge reduction in base speed on the marauders themselves, FORCING them to rely on a MJD for mobility, is utterly cringeworthy. They will not be able to use 100MN ABs because they're too slow, and they're too heavy. Don't ever bother with MWDs either, because the 100MNs take up so much cap that you can't run them for more than three cycles without putting yourself at serious risk. Do you have any idea how painful it is to just burn towards an acceleration gate for what feels like ten minutes in an AB-fit golem? Well. If your Golem is still using an AB after this, it's going to be pitifully slow. And instead you're going to need to use this MJD horse manure, which turns getting anywhere remotely fast into a massive cluster of tedious guesswork as you try to get angles to land yourself within activation range of the gate. Or, you could set your "engines" on, and lumber towards a gate 40km away in a ship that goes ~95m/s with navigation skills. Yeah. No.

In PvE, my Golem is T2 fit, and can already comfortably tank literally every L4 I've ever attempted. My attack range is ALREADY my target lock range, meaning I DO NOT NEED MORE RANGE! This bastion module is pointless! This is a catastrophuck. It's like with every rebalancing initiative, they get worse at it. T1 frigates and cruisers? A+. T1 battlecruisers? C. T1 battleships? F, status quo is king apparently. HACs? D, the Eagle is still useless. Command ships? F, the Nighthawk is still completely useless for everything but PvE against Guristas (which isn't the role of command ships at all).

Marauders? F-. Wow, what are they even doing. They're NERFING them. That's what they're doing. And they're making this fancy new module that, honestly, is going to suck ALL of the fun out of flying marauders. Why can't they just give them non-trivial sensor strength? I'd rather have that and a new module that vastly increases the Marauder's movement capabilities and capacitor economy (Say, making them close to the Machariel), than THIS nonsense.

Honestly, I think this role here that CCP is trying to shove onto Marauders, would be MUCH better on a new class of T2 battleship based on the tier 3 hulls. These marauders don't maraud. They plod.

I'm seriously hoping they do a Marauders Mk 2 thread in a week, because I, and LOADS of other people, do not like these changes. It's too big a leap from what they already are, it does not adequately solve the problems they currently have, and the solution itself (which looks like the Bastion Module and this kooky MJD cooldown bonus or whatever) feel clunky, and forced.

Marauders? F-. Wow, what are they even doing. They're NERFING them. That's what they're doing. And they're making this fancy new module that, honestly, is going to suck ALL of the fun out of flying marauders. Why can't they just give them non-trivial sensor strength? I'd rather have that and a new module that vastly increases the Marauder's movement capabilities and capacitor economy (Say, making them close to the Machariel), .

no they should not. they already provide the same dps as the similarly expensive pirate battleships. with this buff, there is no more justification to fly a nightmare over a vargur or paladin. a dps buff would just break all pirate BS even further.

What about a tracking/exp bonus?

Same DPS, better application, to go along with the better projection?

Um... No.

These are not the changes I was hoping for, at all. Not only do they completely ignore a convention that was set up with HACs and other T2 ships (the Cerberus, Deimos, Stabber and Zealot all roughly seem to be T2 attack cruisers, for one thing), but... Well, It's gimmicky. These ships are EXTREMELY gimmicky. I've never liked MJDs due to how amazingly limited your motion becomes.

The Bastion module is complete and total overkill. The huge reduction in base speed on the marauders themselves, FORCING them to rely on a MJD for mobility, is utterly cringeworthy. They will not be able to use 100MN ABs because they're too slow, and they're too heavy. Don't ever bother with MWDs either, because the 100MNs take up so much cap that you can't run them for more than three cycles without putting yourself at serious risk. Do you have any idea how painful it is to just burn towards an acceleration gate for what feels like ten minutes in an AB-fit golem? Well. If your Golem is still using an AB after this, it's going to be pitifully slow. And instead you're going to need to use this MJD horse manure, which turns getting anywhere remotely fast into a massive cluster of tedious guesswork as you try to get angles to land yourself within activation range of the gate. Or, you could set your "engines" on, and lumber towards a gate 40km away in a ship that goes ~95m/s with navigation skills. Yeah. No.

In PvE, my Golem is T2 fit, and can already comfortably tank literally every L4 I've ever attempted. My attack range is ALREADY my target lock range, meaning I DO NOT NEED MORE RANGE! This bastion module is pointless! This is a catastrophuck. It's like with every rebalancing initiative, they get worse at it. T1 frigates and cruisers? A+. T1 battlecruisers? C. T1 battleships? F, status quo is king apparently. HACs? D, the Eagle is still useless. Command ships? F, the Nighthawk is still completely useless for everything but PvE against Guristas (which isn't the role of command ships at all).

Marauders? F-. Wow, what are they even doing. They're NERFING them. That's what they're doing. And they're making this fancy new module that, honestly, is going to suck ALL of the fun out of flying marauders. Why can't they just give them non-trivial sensor strength? I'd rather have that and a new module that vastly increases the Marauder's movement capabilities and capacitor economy (Say, making them close to the Machariel), than THIS nonsense.

Honestly, I think this role here that CCP is trying to shove onto Marauders, would be MUCH better on a new class of T2 battleship based on the tier 3 hulls. These marauders don't maraud. They plod.

I'm seriously hoping they do a Marauders Mk 2 thread in a week, because I, and LOADS of other people, do not like these changes. It's too big a leap from what they already are, it does not adequately solve the problems they currently have, and the solution itself (which looks like the Bastion Module and this kooky MJD cooldown bonus or whatever) feel clunky, and forced.

This thread has been moved to EVE General Discussion.

Wait, what?

Stealth thread buff. Ezwal likes this one and wants to see it flourish in the light, instead of whither in the darkness of F&I.

Damage buff would obsolete all other PVE ships and be plain stupid. They are becoming fairly overpowered as is.

but with the price of the hulls, who would want to risk them in any numbers.

STOP THE CHANGES, MY PVE INCOME IS BEING AFFECTED. GOD FORBID THESE SHIPS HAVE A VIABLE NICHE IN PVP.

Still think they should get a damage boost while in bastion mod.

Surely someone has asked this already, but I can't be bothered to read through the whole threadnought on F&I:
Will the e-war immunity include immunity to neuts or will Blood Raiders continue to be a PITA for cap hungry laserboats?

No ship is immune to neuts.

Which is reasonable since neuting is not EWAR.
But bottom line, these changes are not good at all for many Marauder users.

...

Sansha --> use Vargur / Paladin ---> Do Sansha even use e-war or other debuffs?
.

Um... No.
In PvE, my Golem is T2 fit, and can already comfortably tank literally every L4 I've ever attempted. My attack range is ALREADY my target lock range, meaning I DO NOT NEED MORE RANGE! This bastion module is pointless!

disconnect

Sansha TD is in highsec missions. Some missions have enough NPCs with TD to cripple a turret ship.

Nah. Bastion mode (and the MJD) means you can slap a Pithum C MSB on and effectively perma-tank, which means less micromanagement and less chance of loss on a disconnect. I normally run a Pithum C MSB (i.e. minimum tank) on a Golem and Vargur and there are a few missions that can go south quickly if something goes wrong. Bastion mode should eliminate that.

As for the Golem, the 25% missile speed buff reduces your cruise missiles' vulnerability to NPC defenders and reduces DPS loss to volley counting. As for torps, well /shruggle, the extra range is nice, but Fury cruise are generally better.

It's been quite a while since I last did PVE so I may have no clue what I am talking about (as usual).
But I also see the Paladin at a slight disadvantage. Just have a look at the rats and their "matching" marauders (resistance/damage wise) and the e-war /debuffs coming from them:

(For lack of a better name, I decided to call the new Marauder-Transfromer module "Decepticon Module", because Autobots are overrated.)

Guristas - -> use Golem /Kronos ---> Guristas ECM e-war canceled via the Decepticon module

Serpentis --> use Kronos /Golem --> Serpentis SD e-war canceled via Decepticon module

Angel --> use Vargur --> Angels use TP and webs. Nobody cares about TPs, MJD makes webs mostly useless

Sansha --> use Vargur / Paladin ---> Do Sansha even use e-war or other debuffs?

Blood Raider --> Use Paladin /Vargur --> BR e-war TD cancelled via Decepticon module, Neuts still affect Paladins, Vargur is much less affected because of capless guns.

paladin should be just fine, especially if it gets that range bonus. I'm more worried for the kronos. with 4 damage mods, and a t2 rof rig a 425mm railgun kronos needs 3 sentry drones to compare to the paladin's tachyon dps. I see blasters as having big damage application problems in missions. and as said, TD immunity is very nice for blood/sansha.