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Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11844
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 20:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello Space Friends!
My name is Lyris Nairn and I have been playing EVE Online since 2008. I think that I have something to say that is relevant to many of you. Especially in this age where renters are becoming commonplace and more people than ever are flocking to 0.0, the idea of a "faction Navy"-style mechanic in nullsec seems like it might be worthwhile. I envision there being introduced an Infrastructrure Hub or Outpost upgrade which would spawn NPC entities what I am tentatively calling the "Alliance Navy."
This upgrade would require a certain Sovereignty Level to install, and would require a monthly fee to maintain (like other upgrades).
The upgrade would have the effect of spawning NPC entities whenever one of the Alliance members (or some other entities as denoted by standings) is the victim of aggression. The spawned NPC entities would then attack the aggressor, and behave similarly to Faction Navy vessels in High Security space. Unlike the Faction Navy, these ships would not necessarily spawn infinitely: there might be an internal cooldown of only once per hour, or once every few minutes, or once per individual aggressor in some time window, or once per individual victim, etc. I am not really certain of the specifics, but I am confident that CCP would be able to hammer out the details and create a worthwhile addition to nullsec game play.
This sort of upgrade would be potentially useful to help make a roaming enemy have to dedicate more than a single ship to an attack on PVE ships (their preferred targets), and would force them to make choices about target selection, projection of force, and investment of numbers or assets. In short, I think this is a good idea! Tell me what you think in the comments. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3385
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 20:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
--> Features & Ideas Discussion
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

KnowUsByTheDead
Knights of the Dark Rose Black Crescent Inc.
183
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 21:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Damn Fury, quick on that smackdown. Lol.
But Lyris, that is a fantastic idea. Especially considering that according to CCP's trailers, "the Empire's are losing grasp."
But I ask you this...what kind of loot will Goon NPC's drop? |

ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
1866
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 21:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thank god he's being indiscriminate nowadays.
Eh. I'm mixed on this. I get the feeling it would turn nullsec into an OP version of highsec; surely the idea of player sov is for the PLAYERS to defend their space, not an AI?
EDIT: Damn I'm stupid. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |

Sarah Flynt
Everyshore Research
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 21:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
If you can't defend your space, you shouldn't have taken it in the first place. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11852
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 21:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote: But I ask you this...what kind of loot will Goon NPC's drop?
One exotic dancer, perhaps? 
In all seriousness they would drop loot like any other faction navy NPC: i.e., nothing. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11852
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 21:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:Thank god he's being indiscriminate nowadays. Eh. I'm mixed on this. I get the feeling it would turn nullsec into an OP version of highsec; surely the idea of player sov is for the PLAYERS to defend their space, not an AI? EDIT: Damn I'm stupid. Under my proposal the Alliance Navy would not respond indefinitely. There would be only one wave per activation, and there might be cooldowns on their activation. It's not meant to be a substitute for a home defense fleet, or to be able to provide a threat to more than one or two poorly-flown frigates; but, it would force the player to make choices and weigh their options in a scenario where there presently is no need to do so. Lowsec has its gate guns that make fights on gates nearly impossible for small ships due to their perfect tracking and high damage; Highec has magical space police (CONCORD) and an infinitely-respawning Faction Navy. I think this is a small enough thing that it would fit the theme of nullsec: after all, why wouldn't a large empire that is able to control and tax the resources of planets and moons under its control not install a quick-response force? You see these sorts of things in other space-themed games, like Sins of a Solar Empire. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11852
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 21:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:If you can't defend your space, you shouldn't have taken it in the first place. The point of the Alliance Navy is not to defend space (i.e., Sovereignty or Assets), but to be a quick (and killable) response against aggression. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
421

|
Posted - 2013.08.31 21:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
This thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion. ISD Ezwal Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11852
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 21:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Looks like you were right! 
ISD Ezwal wrote:This thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.
Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |
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Sol Kal'orr
The Scope Gallente Federation
95
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 22:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Great idea. Let's replace player interaction with some NPCs. All something like this would add is another stale, predictable PVE element (something we have more than enough of already) in the place of the actual players defending their alliance-mates/renters.
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SGT FUNYOUN
Arachnea Phoenix Battalion Hoodlums Associates
74
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 22:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think it could be a neat idea. Would make it a challenge to just blow through Null sec...
+1 personally. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11854
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 22:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sol Kal'orr wrote:Great idea. Let's replace player interaction with some NPCs. All something like this would add is another stale, predictable PVE element (something we have more than enough of already) in the place of the actual players defending their alliance-mates/renters.
Your facetious response raises the question of what you think of CONCORD, faction navy, gate guns, station guns, etc. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11854
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 22:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:I think it could be a neat idea. Would make it a challenge to just blow through Null sec...
+1 personally. I don't think the Alliance Navy would necessarily spawn just for you being there. You could still hotdrop: just don't tackle with the cyno frigate, or fit a tank to a non-frigate for the cyno. You could even still get kills on haulers and cyno ships with a solo bomber by launching your bomb and then cloaking and warping off before the Alliance Navy is triggered. But you would have to think hard about whether you want to risk your solo bomber by tackling and providing a cyno, because you would die to the Alliance Navy if your friends didn't come through the cyno quickly. It provides more choices, more options! Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |

Sarah Flynt
Everyshore Research
4
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 22:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Lowsec has its gate guns that make fights on gates nearly impossible for small ships due to their perfect tracking and high damage; Highec has magical space police (CONCORD) and an infinitely-respawning Faction Navy. It's called Nullsec for a reason. Not "A little lower than Lowsec" or "Next to null sec but not quite", but Nullsec as in null, zero, nada.
Lyris Nairn wrote:I think this is a small enough thing that it would fit the theme of nullsec: after all, why wouldn't a large empire that is able to control and tax the resources of planets and moons under its control not install a quick-response force? Thanks for getting to the real point here: Exactly, why wouldn't a large empire, which makes tons of ISK off the resources of the area it has claimed, not be able to launch such a quick response force?
Lyris Nairn wrote:The point of the Alliance Navy is not to defend space (i.e., Sovereignty or Assets), but to be a quick (and killable) response against aggression. So your definition of "defending space" is only about defending structures. My (and probably almost anybody else's) definition is about defending all structures (including the space claim) and especially the people who are living there and their belongings. Obviously CCP is with me on this due to the sheer lack of a mechanic like the one that you're proposing.
Ever heard of a country which doesn't care about goons (no pun intended), who cross over the border, slaughter the inhabitants and take what they can get, as long as they don't put up a flag? No? Me neither. It's almost comical, that such a proposal comes from a member of one of the largest alliances in the game. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11874
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 07:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thanks for the replies folks! Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |

Shade Millith
Bite Me inc Bitten.
89
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 03:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
I disagree. This is going to hurt anything other than larger gangs when roaming. We need less reasons to blob up, not more. |

suid0
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
58
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 07:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
When you have over 10,000 members... why do you need NPC's to protect you?
Idea is beyond terrible, if you own the space, you police it.   
-1 the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones -á--áCommander Ted |

Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
144
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 07:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Now this might be a silly idea but what if 0.0 sov system would be changed into more like fw. Sites and stuff that you need to contral. If it would be done that way then the npcs would actualy make sense.
But this is just my twisted idea. Might actualy add more small gang operations when people try to take control of something. This way also towers would have a huge impact on safe locations in hostile systems and all new things and tactics could be uncovered. After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm |

Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
224
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 08:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
suid0 wrote:When you have over 10,000 members... why do you need NPC's to protect you? Idea is beyond terrible, if you own the space, you police it.    -1
with the suppoded refocus on renting 0.0 needs to do with moon goo changes I am guessing this be good for alliances that don't want to patrol more to keep space safe for the renters. Not going to have renters beating down the doors if hot dropped and roamed constantly to the point its jsut more cost effective to pve spam in empire.
Why I'd -1 it.....want to make the neighborhood safe for the renters its kind of what they are paying the blilioins for imo. Renters rats, take of security in those 2 systems they rent....it the alliance's job to take care of the roamers in the 20+ systems it took to get there. Not like the renters can even leave their systems to do this.
Unless crap changed most places I was at renters were not allowed to wander out of their reserved areas anyway. Prevents the bickering of renters are stealing our rats crap diplo's have to deal with. With the alliances end of the deal being you can't go in rent space either unless clearly hunting pvp targets. So that diplo's aren't dealing with renters griping about stolen rat kills yet again. |
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Andracin
Sickology
221
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 08:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think CCP Rise already stickied the bad idea thread....
Null is null for a reason. If you own the space, you are the space police. Quit trying to make npc's do your job for you. |

Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
1195
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 10:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:Hello Space Friends!
My name is Lyris Nairn and I have been playing EVE Online since 2008. I think that I have something to say that is relevant to many of you. Especially in this age where renters are becoming commonplace and more people than ever are flocking to 0.0, the idea of a "faction Navy"-style mechanic in nullsec seems like it might be worthwhile. I envision there being introduced an Infrastructrure Hub or Outpost upgrade which would spawn NPC entities what I am tentatively calling the "Alliance Navy."
This upgrade would require a certain Sovereignty Level to install, and would require a monthly fee to maintain (like other upgrades).
The upgrade would have the effect of spawning NPC entities whenever one of the Alliance members (or some other entities as denoted by standings) is the victim of aggression. The spawned NPC entities would then attack the aggressor, and behave similarly to Faction Navy vessels in High Security space. Unlike the Faction Navy, these ships would not necessarily spawn infinitely: there might be an internal cooldown of only once per hour, or once every few minutes, or once per individual aggressor in some time window, or once per individual victim, etc. I am not really certain of the specifics, but I am confident that CCP would be able to hammer out the details and create a worthwhile addition to nullsec game play.
This sort of upgrade would be potentially useful to help make a roaming enemy have to dedicate more than a single ship to an attack on PVE ships (their preferred targets), and would force them to make choices about target selection, projection of force, and investment of numbers or assets. In short, I think this is a good idea! Tell me what you think in the comments. I see what you did there...
Nope |

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1183
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 11:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
suid0 wrote:When you have over 10,000 members... why do you need NPC's to protect you? Idea is beyond terrible, if you own the space, you police it.    -1
It's well known Goons are about a dozen and everything else is multibox alts !
How didn't you even thought about that hun?
On topic: nope, there are already enough NPCs we don't need more
What we need is corps/alliances mechanics changes, Outposts changes, structure grinding changes, null sec industry changes (slots/timers/quality/refining/wastage), not more NPCs !! *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |

Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
351
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 11:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
That suggestion is not entirely new.
Altho it's been a while since I saw this one. Maybe a year or two.
As far as I remember CCP said something like "Not gonna happen" about that.
I can't seem to find the thread tho so maybe it's my imagination running wild on me again.  There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699
Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |

PopeUrban
El Expedicion
40
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 16:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Only if:
The owner had to fill a "navy hangar" with fitted ships.
Said fitted ships were salvagable/lootable/otherwise behaved as a player piloted ship
Piloting AI is considered to have bare minimum skills required to fly the fit.
Piloting AI is as dumb as navy ships.
This means you can throw trash and cheap navy vessels at the system's "defense hangar" but they're going to cost just as much as an actual person flying the same ship, and do a worse job of it.
Oh, and also you'll be paying the NPC crew that flies it an ISK salary every week. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11887
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 17:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
PopeUrban wrote:Only if:
The owner had to fill a "navy hangar" with fitted ships.
Said fitted ships were salvagable/lootable/otherwise behaved as a player piloted ship
Piloting AI is considered to have bare minimum skills required to fly the fit.
Piloting AI is as dumb as navy ships.
This means you can throw trash and cheap navy vessels at the system's "defense hangar" but they're going to cost just as much as an actual person flying the same ship, and do a worse job of it.
Oh, and also you'll be paying the NPC crew that flies it an ISK salary every week. None of these are unreasonable; though, dividing up the upkeep cost from "provide ISK every month" to "provide ISK every week and a bunch of other things" does seem needlessly complex. It would allow for greater customization, though: you could outfit an Alliance Navy of nothing but Insta-artillery fits, rather than whatever the default might be. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
893
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 17:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
Alternatively, you could play with one of your thousands of alliancemates and have one of them come save you if you're attacked.
I don't understand the problem you're trying to fix. Are you arguing that sov nullsec is presently too dangerous? Because most people would definitely argue the opposite. |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11887
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 17:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
I am not alleging there exists any "problem," and I don't really have a stake in it. I just think it would be neat and consistent. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |

Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11934
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 12:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:That suggestion is not entirely new. Altho it's been a while since I saw this one. Maybe a year or two. As far as I remember CCP said something like "Not gonna happen" about that. I can't seem to find the thread tho so maybe it's my imagination running wild on me again.  One can only hope. Sky Captain of Your Heart Vote Lyris Nairn for CSM8 |

Darling Hassasin
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 13:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lyris Nairn wrote:PopeUrban wrote:Only if:
The owner had to fill a "navy hangar" with fitted ships.
Said fitted ships were salvagable/lootable/otherwise behaved as a player piloted ship
Piloting AI is considered to have bare minimum skills required to fly the fit.
Piloting AI is as dumb as navy ships.
This means you can throw trash and cheap navy vessels at the system's "defense hangar" but they're going to cost just as much as an actual person flying the same ship, and do a worse job of it.
Oh, and also you'll be paying the NPC crew that flies it an ISK salary every week. None of these are unreasonable; though, dividing up the upkeep cost from "provide ISK every month" to "provide ISK every week and a bunch of other things" does seem needlessly complex. It would allow for greater customization, though: you could outfit an Alliance Navy of nothing but Insta-artillery fits, rather than whatever the default might be.
Yes complex and not needlessly so. Do it like that to avoid abuse. Space holder has to give 10 items and when the crappity crap blows up it will drop at most 3/10. Therefore no incentive for the alliance (or its buddies) to farm their own "navy" for profits.
For the same reason it must not give a kill mail.
Even then your suggestion is a buff to solo pve and a nerf to solo pvp. So it seems to be against what we need in this game to make it a better game.
So in the end... no. |
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