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Karsius
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Posted - 2006.01.05 18:59:00 -
[1]
I'm new to the game, about a week and so far I've spent all my training time on learning skills.. I've been told it takes A MONTH (!!) to train them all to lvl5 and then the advanced at lvl4. Not that I'm an impatient guy, but whole a month just training skills that makes you learn faster.. It's just dumb, slow and boring.
therefore I suggest that all newbies have their basic learnings to lvl5 at the character's creation.
great idea hu ?
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Krang Aucks
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Posted - 2006.01.05 19:12:00 -
[2]
Hardly. Maybe find another game?
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Carson Lanrapt
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Posted - 2006.01.05 19:27:00 -
[3]
Eh, not a great idea to me. Keep in mind that you don't HAVE to train all your learning skills straight off the bat if you don't want to. Many people train up basics to 4 then some other stuff they want to train and eventually work on getting them all up higher.
Basically, it's a choice. If you want faster training time you'll have to spend some time upfront for it. If you don't want to do that, well, you can do more now and less later.
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Marduk Starkiller
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Posted - 2006.01.05 19:49:00 -
[4]
I personally trained them to lvl 4 and then started to train for assault frigates. After i can fly AFs and be able to equip t2 lasers and train some other useful skills to at least lvl 3-4 i'll resume to training the learning skills. Don't forget that the books for the adv learning skills are 4.5m/each. Pretty hard to make that kind of isk in a frigate 
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Karsius
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Posted - 2006.01.05 20:19:00 -
[5]
4.5M.. damn.
I think I'll follow your advice and train for cruiser. A big ship is better than a small book 
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Takahashi Clutch
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Posted - 2006.01.05 20:36:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Karsius
... Not that I'm an impatient guy, but whole a month just training skills that makes you learn faster.. It's just dumb, slow and boring
Wait till you get to the skills that takes weeks to learn. The basic learning skills will help you, but again, you don't need to get them to lv5 immediately.
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Deileon
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Posted - 2006.01.06 03:46:00 -
[7]
You are fine with non-charisma basic learnings to L4 for now. Then get what you feel you need or want before the next big push. Cruiser stuff at least. Don't feel shackled by someone elses timetable, train the skills you want, that's the fun of the game.
There aren't any massively long skills necessary for you yet, you should have lots of smaller skills that would help you a lot. But, eventually (6months+ down the road) you WILL want to train some long ones. Maybe that's not for everyone. But you can always take a little break while a long one trains...
They say bananas are a dish best served cold... |
HarbingerHeavyIndustries
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Posted - 2006.01.06 03:54:00 -
[8]
Karsius has brought to light an interesting dynamic; because of the time sensitive nature of training skills newbies will never be able to catch up to a player who has played since Beta testing (whereas in other games level is directly correlated to the amount of time you put into the game). His request isn't all that far-fetched because he is thinking what most newbs are probably thinking.
That being said, time-training skills probably helps retain current customers, but how does CCP intend to draw in new ones since newbs can never catch up?
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2006.01.06 04:09:00 -
[9]
Noobs can catch up as there is a limit as to how specialized you can get.
If I have 10 million skillpoints, been playing for 8 months, and have about 8 million of those SPS invested into a Raven...
And there is a 30 million skillpoint player, who, due to the restrictions, also only has 8 million sps invested into a Raven...
That seems fair to me.
Sure, maybe he doesnt have PE 5... but I can garuntee you almost everyone with 35+ mil sps has a lot wasted, due to the amount of skills unavailable early on in the game.
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Nukeitall
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Posted - 2006.01.06 04:25:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Nukeitall on 06/01/2006 04:25:47
If the investment is so long, just stick with basic skills.
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Tripoli
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Posted - 2006.01.06 06:26:00 -
[11]
I probably should add a note in the above guide that this optimal learning skill training thing really isn't for almost any newbie. You don't need to cram all the learning skills for over a month. Yes, you DO need to train them to level 2, 3, or 4 fairly quickly, just cause those levels pay off very quickly.
How quickly. The combined "payoff" time for training the 6 basic learning skills from level 0 to level 3, is a mere 6 days 2 hours and 7 minutes for the average character, and only 25 days 10 hours 43 minutes for all six at level 4 - Or 97 days 10 hours 45 minutes if you only consider the improvement gained from the training of level 3 to level 4 for all 6 basic learning skills.
But REALLY......Don't do it if it's not fun for you!!! Do what's fun! Train cruiser skills, gunnery skills, mining, refining, trade, science....whatever makes the game fun for you!
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Cabre
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Posted - 2006.01.06 10:25:00 -
[12]
All learning skills do is hold back newbies who are trying out the game. Sucks to be a newbie :/
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.01.06 10:38:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Cabre
All learning skills do is hold back newbies who are trying out the game. Sucks to be a newbie :/
I didn't train them when I was a newbie, why should they. You don't NEED to train them, they're a option. With a really long payoff, hardly something to train the first second. Lvl 3 4 at most for the basic learnings is perfectly fine for the first 6 months, while you train fun stuff, and perhaps a bit of laerning to 5 and adv. learning among those fun skills, but getting to a position where you LIKE to play EVE is a lot more important then a couple of skillpoints.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Theonlystd
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Posted - 2006.01.06 11:09:00 -
[14]
Id say they should get them all at Rank 1 when they start.
Thats not a huge bonus. Have the tutorial mention that getting the learning skills to rank 4 in your early career would be a good idea to.
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Aye Spellcheck is beyond me along with propper grammer. |
Sunflare
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Posted - 2006.01.06 12:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Theonlystd
Id say they should get them all at Rank 1 when they start.
Thats not a huge bonus. Have the tutorial mention that getting the learning skills to rank 4 in your early career would be a good idea to.
I'd support them all starting with lvl 3 even, new players have a long way to go even if they specialize to catch older players. giving them all at lvl3 would limit the boredom of training a new character as within a couple days they could have 2 of those at lvl 4, and start training their other skills much more efficiently. And lvl3 is only about a weeks head-start over what we all had ... as long as they back-date this so ALL characters in game that don't have these yet get them that way it's fair to everyone.
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Joseph Dredd
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Posted - 2006.01.06 12:32:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Joseph Dredd on 06/01/2006 12:35:02
When I started I decided what path the character was going to take i.e. miner fighter etc
Then got all the rank 1 skills for that field and trained them up to 4 /5.
I did train the rank 1 learning skills up to lvl 4 as well.
When I had the isk to spare I brought Rank 3 learning skills and trained them.
Ok my character path has changed many times and now with 25 mil sp the learning ones are still not complete but you do get used to the time it takes and now for me to get on a skill that takes 6 or 7 days to get to lvl 5 is a luxury.
Please remember that everybody has been where you are now and alot of people who started after me have many more SP some of that is due to the fact that they put in the time with the learning skills at the start.
Oh and dont forget the implants will help even the +1's
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Karsius
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Posted - 2006.01.06 12:47:00 -
[17]
glad to see I've got some supporters 
I understand that my proposal seems unfair to those who took the time to train their learnings.. maybe it is a bit drastic.
How about a free set of say +2 implants (bound to the character) that requires no skills ? Make them limited in time if you wish. That would make sense, no free skills points, just a little gift from CCP to all the newbies
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Xaero Khelvin
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Posted - 2006.01.06 13:21:00 -
[18]
I started my character in september and I just completed leveling up my learning skills, everything advanced to 4 except charisma to 3, and plain old learning to 4. As someone who is still fairly new, how do you suggest I be compensated fairly? Assault Frigate or Interceptors level 3 with the appropriate pre-reqs? I don't think so and I don't think what you're proposing has much merit. Even with the creation of the new bloodlines CCP decides to give newb characters more starting skills they're still boning the people who started not-so-long ago.
I suggest you save your pennies and get those skillbooks because I doubt it's going to change any time soon.
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John Baley
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Posted - 2006.01.06 13:37:00 -
[19]
I've been playing for a month and a half now. So I'm newb too.
This is what I did.
First thing to do is train up some of your basic skills for whatever it is you want to do for starters in eve. Which comes down to two paths: mining and pve missions. You shouldn't be training anything over lvl 3 till you have more of an idea of what you want to do in eve.
You want to train up your frigate skills a couple levels and depending on what you want to do for starters, industry or gunnery skills. Check out the player guide in the left column of this page for some advice on what skills to get depending on your race.
As you are training your basic skills up go in game and check out the market for modules. Get aquantited with the secondary ship modules. Find some starter modules you like and train up the necessary skills a coupel levels to get them.
While doing this have fun mining or in pve or find a corp beyond the starter ones. Now that you have some basic skills, what I did was train my learning skills up to lvl 3. Start with Memory, then Intelligence, then Learning. In that sequence till you have them to lvl 3 or 4. Then do the other learning skills up to level 3 or 4.
After that you don't have to worry about learning skills till the skill training time is a couple days on average for all your skills.
You are going to have a couple important skills that will take a few days for level 3 or 4 but they are mostly in the ship command catergory. Namely frigate skill to lvl 4 to get cruisers, and then cruisers to lvl 3 (or 4 if you want Battleships early). Also pick up the rest of the secondary skills for modules at your discretion (know what you want). You shouldn't be training anything to lvl 5 till you been playing for atleast a month and even that is really early.
I am at this point in the game. I am finishing training some essential skills to lvl 4 so I can get my hands on some critical modules/skills and then I am training my learning up to lvl 3 for Tier 2 skills (the next rank). But this is my choice and it should take a little over a month to get done if I go Memory and Intelligence then the rest. I am going to spend the month of time padding my wallet with mining and pve missions, and doing corp pvp.
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Karsius
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Posted - 2006.01.06 13:38:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Karsius on 06/01/2006 13:42:53
Well I really don't expect such a change to be made, I'm not that stupid.. and even if it would, by the time I'll probably be done with those learnings. My basic thought was to give new characters a little something to help them to get in the game a little faster (like the +1 implant you get at the end of the tutorial), not to spoil 98% of the other players..
so hum.. not a great idea after all, but what do you think about the free implants ?
btw, I'm currently training for cruisers, can't wait to fly it.. I think my approach of the game was a bit messed up by all I read about "how important your learning skills are, level them up asap"
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Zirator
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Posted - 2006.01.06 15:26:00 -
[21]
No everyone has made to make the same start. I'm playing this game not that long but I also had to grind my way through learning. Currently have them all up to adv three ( - cha skill ) and going to take perception and willpower up to 4 soon.
The system is great as it is. Be glad that you don't need to grind like in WoW. ( /me shudders at the thought of doing that again )
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Xascor
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Posted - 2006.01.06 15:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tripoli
I probably should add a note in the above guide that this optimal learning skill training thing really isn't for almost any newbie. You don't need to cram all the learning skills for over a month. Yes, you DO need to train them to level 2, 3, or 4 fairly quickly, just cause those levels pay off very quickly.
As someone who read your post, appreciated it and have had to have many discussions with other players about why NOT to go straight to advanced...please add this. A simple timeline like "Take basic learning skills to level 3 in the first few weeks and level 4 in your first 4-6 weeks" or whatever would be best. It's amazing how many players ask "How in the world am I supposed to buy the advanced learning skills books? I only have 2 million isk!!"
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Still working on  |
Macro Media
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Posted - 2006.01.06 15:58:00 -
[23]
My Suggestion is this.
1. Train a lvl on a learning skill.
2. Train a lvl on whatever you want.
3. Repeat 1 & 2 untill you have advanced learnings to lvl 4.
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Criminal EVE Guides
Evil Genius 101 Guide |
Missa Symone
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Posted - 2006.01.06 19:11:00 -
[24]
Simple enough to blow off the learning skills until you have the requisites for either a seriously decked out frigate or a good cruiser, and then go back to the long duration of lvl 5 in the learning skills.
Sorry, but I like the skill system just the way it is, and I am less than a month in the game. Everything with skills is a tradeoff, just like ship-fitting.
One player, too many games |
Whirl
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Posted - 2006.01.06 19:29:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Whirl on 06/01/2006 19:30:19
Takes at least 2 months to train learning to 5 and all the advanced skills to 4 I believe. I've just got a little over 2 weeks to go till I've finished them now, over 90% of my skill points are in learning skills.
May be holding me back.. but I prefer to plan for the long term. 4.5 million per book isn't too bad.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.01.06 20:02:00 -
[26]
I agree its dumb and bad game design - but there nothing you can do about it.
But remember these skills do make it better for newbs in a way. You will be training much faster than veterns did when they started so you wont be as far behind as if these skills didnt exist.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.01.06 21:29:00 -
[27]
i got the learnings to 4 in my first coupla days, and then trained stuff i needed/wanted. after about a month, i trained em to 5, and bought the skills (4.5mil each, so not pocket change for a week old char  ) that make em worth it (advanced learnings) and got those to lvl4
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etheris
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Posted - 2006.01.07 10:02:00 -
[28]
Ive been getting all my learning skills to level 3 and 4 (except empathy) while im sleeping, and using time while mining or doing missions to train cheapo level 1 skills that take only 20-30 minutes.
Hoo-rah!
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Talos Darkhart
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Posted - 2006.01.07 11:31:00 -
[29]
Got to remember that when complaining about catching up to older players that eventually you will. Due to the fact that the adv learning skills were added later, and that with the way skills have been added alot of ppl like myself who have 25mil sp about a 3rd of that is wasted sp for one reason or another. And don't forget that thanks to ccp changing the primary and secondary attributes on some skills my PvP character now trains carebear skills quicker than combat and ship based ones 
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Shadow Silvermoon
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Posted - 2006.01.07 11:52:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Shadow Silvermoon on 07/01/2006 11:53:36
Originally by: HarbingerHeavyIndustries
Karsius has brought to light an interesting dynamic; because of the time sensitive nature of training skills newbies will never be able to catch up to a player who has played since Beta testing (whereas in other games level is directly correlated to the amount of time you put into the game). His request isn't all that far-fetched because he is thinking what most newbs are probably thinking.
I never thought that, I personally liked the time training idea when I was a newb since it meant that people who can't actually play EVE 24/7 don't suffer because of it
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