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Ele Rebellion
Underground Coalition
Stash Alliance
1
   |
Posted - 2013.09.03 08:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
All the talk about the Bastion Mode for Marauders had me thinking. What about giving us a T2 Battleship that serves as a Sub-Capital Carrier. (In other words: A T2 Battleship that has bonuses to drone bay, bandwidth, max number of drones in space and hitpoints/damage.. maybe even remote reps/cap)
I know I've read somewhere that a CCP dev said they don't like to design ships to have a single purpose. So this goes along with that. They could be set up for Drone DPS or Triage (like carriers) which gives them PvE and PvP uses as well as bridges the Logi Gap between T2 Logistical Cruisers and full blown Capital Carriers. (althought I know some people don't feel that such a thing exists)
The set-ups could allow for (at max skills) up to 10 Large (25 Mbit/sec) drones (no fighters) and up to 5 modules that allow for control of one additional drone each.. or just the 10 Large drones with remote assistance module bonuses.
Personally I think its a great idea. Will have great PvE and PvP uses. Might even help to encourage pilots to move from High Sec out into Low/Null to use actual Carriers. Might also encourage more Low/Null Small gang PvP. |
Ellendras Silver
Honestly We didnt know
93
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 08:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
i like to weigh in here....
NO |
Ele Rebellion
Underground Coalition
Stash Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 08:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:i like to weigh in here....
NO
Would you like to let us know why not? |
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
28
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 08:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Slocats for high sec? I don't see anything that could go wrong here... |
Arya Regnar
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
97
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 09:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't see anything wrong... Wait what?
NO
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Ele Rebellion
Underground Coalition
Stash Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 10:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Trying to figure out what the problem is with this idea..
Even with 15 drones it would still fall behind the Pirate Faction ships in DPS... thinking the Vindicator is 8 T2 hybrids with 37.5 (3/8) bonus... plus has 125MBit/sec. .. (Thats like having 11T2 Blasters with 5 Drones...)
Give it extra drones, no hardpoints, maybe instead of drone damage bonus a drone resist/hitpoint bonus?
Give it Marauder resists (lower than standard T2) and similiar hitpoints.
If CCP is giong to give us a mini-dread (without the damage bonus) why can't we have Mini-Carriers without damage bonuses.
Or give it 5drones with damage bonus and a module that it can use that would allow for and extra drone per module. max5 for the ship.. giving us either a 5drone logi BS or 10drone dps setup.
On the logi side. I'm not suggesting it have better reps than a T2 Logi Cruiser.. just more hitpoints, fitting capabilities, and drones.
Really whats wrong with that?
|
monkfish1234
The Knights of Spamalot
The Methodical Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 11:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
giving ships which would be 'common' more than 5 drones causes issues with drone blobs and lag. which was the reason the limit of 5 was originally introduced.
giving a ship drone dmg bonus' is just a domi / geddon.
there is no need for a triage style sub-cap becasue logi ships are so powerful, and the downsides of a triage module would make it not worth using compared to logis and standard bs.
there simply just isn't any great need or value in adding a ship like this.
I'd far rather see more utility / ewar BS brought into the game. |
Rain6638
Team Evil
617
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 12:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP wants you to bring friends, rather than give you the ability to launch 10 drones from a ship that is not a carrier.
Even Dreads and Titans are limited to 5 
[ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337
yo dawg, we heard you liek industrials, so we put an industrial in yo industrial so you can loss while u loss |
Caleb Seremshur
Angel of War
Game 0f Tears
61
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 12:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
from what I'm learning it seems like carriers have very limited use themselves. Outside of triage they dont really do very much. You'll probably find that fighters are a suboptimal thing to use for combat.
Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread --- Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3503687&#post3503687 ----á for FW rebalance in 2013 |
Tivook OneManSlave
The Scope
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 13:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
I was thinking .. With all of this talk of capital ships and whatnot..
What about a Supertitan? Where Titans and supercarriers can dock where the CQ door is open that leads to pink rooms filled to the brim with prostitutes?
YEah. |
Matthias Thullmann
Dynatron Inc.
The Volition Cult
6
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 13:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Escort carriers are already being discussed. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources
Tactical Narcotics Team
1662
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 14:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
1600 DPS on an AFK ratting ship. So...40+ mil per tick running hubs. While watching TV.
What could possibly go wrong? |
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
Turalyon Alliance
1887
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 15:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Use a Dominix or Armageddon.
Another terrible poster ._. |
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
100
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 15:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ele Rebellion wrote:Even with 15 drones it would still fall behind the Pirate Faction ships in DPS... thinking the Vindicator is 8 T2 hybrids with 37.5 (3/8) bonus... plus has 125MBit/sec. .. (Thats like having 11T2 Blasters with 5 Drones...)
That's still more than Nightmare and Bhaalgorn. A lot more than Mach.
No. |
Ellendras Silver
Honestly We didnt know
94
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 19:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ele Rebellion wrote:Ellendras Silver wrote:i like to weigh in here....
NO Would you like to let us know why not?
OP in high sec why do you think carriers are forbidden in high sec ? |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3626
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 21:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:from what I'm learning it seems like carriers have very limited use themselves. Outside of triage they dont really do very much. You'll probably find that fighters are a suboptimal thing to use for combat.
I use my carrier for a lot of things. Use your imagination.
The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
895
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 21:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
There are already battleship platforms that use drones. In what way would this be meaningfully different than a Dominix? |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources
Tactical Narcotics Team
1664
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 22:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:There are already battleship platforms that use drones. In what way would this be meaningfully different than a Dominix?
Double the DPS. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 22:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rain6638 wrote:CCP wants you to bring friends, rather than give you the ability to launch 10 drones from a ship that is not a carrier.
Drones awox less  |
Ellendras Silver
Honestly We didnt know
94
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 22:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Matthias Thullmann wrote:Escort carriers are already being discussed.
great but they wont get in the game because well its a bad idea |
Caleb Seremshur
Angel of War
Game 0f Tears
64
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 23:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote:from what I'm learning it seems like carriers have very limited use themselves. Outside of triage they dont really do very much. You'll probably find that fighters are a suboptimal thing to use for combat. I use my carrier for a lot of things. Use your imagination.
Ok so looking beyond the logistics, they can transport goods, rep structures...
then you get some imaginative soul that wants to rat in a carrier, not an inherently terrible IDEA just really inefficient. When the average player thinks of a carrier they think of a protoss carrier sending out swarms of drones to molest things to death. While this is feasible in EVE the gameplay kind of devolves due to ease of cyno access/neutral alts/blap dreads/supers taking no extra skills to fly/not enough extra damage over a battleship.
Really if carriers get rebalanced what should they be capable of? 2000-3000 dps? That's not really unreasonable for a ship that takes a whole year to train for and use properly. A ship that can't move systems on its own and which takes a specialist industrial character to build.
Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread --- Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3503687&#post3503687 ----á for FW rebalance in 2013 |
Trinkets friend
Rules of Acquisition
Acquisition Of Empire
1133
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 02:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
I will let Lana say it
YOLO is the Carpe Diem of Gen Y
http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
|
Ele Rebellion
Underground Coalition
Stash Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 05:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:1600 DPS on an AFK ratting ship. So...40+ mil per tick running hubs. While watching TV.
What could possibly go wrong?
1600DPS? We talking drones not fighters... DPS would probably top around 1200.. on full DPS fit.
AFK Ratting? in a shiny ship? Doesn't that scream "GANK ME!" (also with the target hopping to drones and the need to swap between differnt sizes/types of drones its still far from being an AFK ratting ship)
40+ mil per tick? Dunno where your ratting! But anywhere I can think of with that kinda money output can already have Carriers.
Think of a battleship class carrier as being comparable to a current Marauder (not the Bastion one) In terms of DPS and Tank. Its just opened up to some additional roles.
Other notes I want to add. T2 Battleships are already going for 1Billion isk. (Note: you can pick up a carrier for 1.1Billion)
And for all the talk about the Dominix.. It has 5 drones and 6 Hardpoints. and still gets bonus to Hybrid Turrets. Meaning that this would still be far from Dominix... Extra drones and 0 Hardpoints. (Plus the dominix is T1.. there is no T2 Drone boat.. this would fill that gap... especially with the reduction of drone capabilities of Marauders.) |
To mare
Advanced Technology
237
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 06:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
calling this a "new idea" its like saying the water is wet |
Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA
C0VEN
136
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 07:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
It calls dominix and proper fitting - try it.
Phantasm
- 150% speed bonus in cloak
- 2LY jump range
|
Aaron Kyoto
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
8
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 09:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Rain6638 wrote:CCP wants you to bring friends, rather than give you the ability to launch 10 drones from a ship that is not a carrier. Even Dreads and Titans are limited to 5
Dreads dont get drones :p |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources
Tactical Narcotics Team
1665
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 09:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ele Rebellion wrote:Danika Princip wrote:1600 DPS on an AFK ratting ship. So...40+ mil per tick running hubs. While watching TV.
What could possibly go wrong? 1600DPS? We talking drones not fighters... DPS would probably top around 1200.. on full DPS fit. AFK Ratting? in a shiny ship? Doesn't that scream "GANK ME!" (also with the target hopping to drones and the need to swap between differnt sizes/types of drones its still far from being an AFK ratting ship) 40+ mil per tick? Dunno where your ratting! But anywhere I can think of with that kinda money output can already have Carriers. Think of a battleship class carrier as being comparable to a current Marauder (not the Bastion one) In terms of DPS and Tank. Its just opened up to some additional roles. Other notes I want to add. T2 Battleships are already going for 1Billion isk. (Note: you can pick up a carrier for 1.1Billion) And for all the talk about the Dominix.. It has 5 drones and 6 Hardpoints. and still gets bonus to Hybrid Turrets. Meaning that this would still be far from Dominix... Extra drones and 0 Hardpoints. (Plus the dominix is T1.. there is no T2 Drone boat.. this would fill that gap... especially with the reduction of drone capabilities of Marauders.) Edit: The Sin is kinda a drone boat.. but its the covert ops ships. Still has bonuses to hybrids (plus hybrid hardpoints) And then there's the Rattlesnake... thats well.. its the Rattlesnake (do I really need to say more?)
My Ishtar, with only five T2 heavy drones, hits 800 DPS. I assume your ship would have a drone damage bonus to match, and would thus double it. I currently pull in ~20mil/tick while AFK. With double the DPS, I would expect to double it.
This battleship would cost a lot less than a carrier, and would be used in some deep part of nullsec, with intel channels and home defence gangs. The same way people currently drone rat.
The price of marauders spiked when the changes were announced. You can build them for less than 1b. A fit carrier costs much more than 1.1b too. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
896
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 13:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Kahega Amielden wrote:There are already battleship platforms that use drones. In what way would this be meaningfully different than a Dominix? Double the DPS.
Wouldn't it be easier just to megabuff the Dominix if all you're going for is a massively-overpowered droneboat? |
Caleb Seremshur
Angel of War
Game 0f Tears
64
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 13:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
All of which fails to compare the relative benefits of a conventional battleships vs this theoretical mini carrier.
From my own experience the major limitations to drone ships are the lack of hulls with damage bonuses. Light drones hardly need help with application and heavy drones don't exactly need more dps.
A ratting carrier can pretty much field 1400 dps with 4+ù dda and ogrea. But a rni can get a thousand dps with cruise missiles. Which is likely to be running sites faster?
Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread --- Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3503687&#post3503687 ----á for FW rebalance in 2013 |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
896
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 13:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
Quote:A ratting carrier can pretty much field 1400 dps with 4+ù dda and ogrea. But a rni can get a thousand dps with cruise missiles. Which is likely to be running sites faster?
First off, comparing a capital ship to subcapitals makes the idea look bad. You should stop that.
Furthermore, there's a huge difference between suggesting a drone ship with a DPS focus (Though this has major balance implications since drone ships are so good at applying that DPS to smaller ships) and creating a "mini-carrier" with a ton of unnecessary new mechanics. |
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