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Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.01.07 19:30:00 - [31] Originally by: j0sephine As much sense as it makes, if it happened the amount of whining would be unreal. Picture Tuxford's original thread about drone changes, and double that -.o I thought the majority of people whining in those threads were annoyed over the hidden nerf, i.e. giving gallente thermal drone damage bonuses instead of generic ones. Seeing as nobody has actuallly built a carrier yet (I don't think), there shouldn't be too much moaning (key word there "shouldn't"). And, he does have a point
Castar	Posted - 2006.01.07 19:32:00 - [32] Originally by: Acwron Edited by: Acwron on 07/01/2006 19:19:38 e.g. - Minmatar Carrier: + 10% Bonus Explosiv Damage + 5% reduction in Shield and Armor transfer duration per level (<-- though this one is really useless :) - Gallente Carrier: + 10% Bonus Thermal Damage + some other Bonus Yeah that would probably balance them... and also make carriers "boring", as in: not much really distinguishes one carrier from another... And background-wise it might be true that the Caldari should have better fighters... but ingame it doesn't work. If they had made fighters big drones (which they are, whatever the description says about pilots), no-one would whine about it. Well, they probably would have found another reason to whine, but that's besides the point. The point is (referring solely to the first poster's arguments, I'm not denying the bonus might be unbalanced) that it's not the bonus allocation that is screwed up, it's the description for the fighter.
Shayla Sh'inlux	Posted - 2006.01.07 19:51:00 - [33] Storyline wise, Gallente are the masters of EW and the Caldari developed their high sensor strengths to counter that...
Foomanshoe	Posted - 2006.01.07 21:07:00 - [34] Quote: and give the Gallente carrier a bonus to fighter mining capacity or dating men or something. ROFL you made my day _______________________________________________ Deadspace For Dead space! Originally by: Oveur To the nerfmobile!
The Major	Posted - 2006.01.07 22:06:00 - [35] Of course if we believed the fiction about Fighters they also wouldn't be able to warp... Quote: These abilities can only be achieved by removing their warp core and pod systems So basically: It's all a bit out of whack really.
RedWyvern	Posted - 2006.01.07 23:14:00 - [36] Hold on. Are you sure the 'fighters' referred to in the chronicle aren't just frigates? After all, they contain a single pilot too - and at an early stage of the Gallente-Caldari war, clone technology wouldn't have proliferated. And besides, if you look at the picture, the ships in question are condors viewed from behind. Drones were developed to eat frigates. Which they were, and are pretty good at it. "It didnÆt take them that long - they simply upgraded their fighters a bit, added some shields and extra weapons and called the new vessels frigates." They're not referring to a jump in ship design from fighter->frigate in our terms: that is way more than 'a bit'...more of a corvette/proto-frigate design similar to our rookie ships. It doesn't make sense to refer to a backstory which was made ages before carriers and Titans were concieved of. Unless I'm wrong. [rp n00b] -------------------------------------------------- Loyalty, Integrity, Honour.
FiGHT XZen	Posted - 2006.01.07 23:16:00 - [37] Originally by: RedWyvern Hold on. Are you sure the 'fighters' referred to in the chronicle aren't just frigates? After all, they contain a single pilot too - and at an early stage of the Gallente-Caldari war, clone technology wouldn't have proliferated. And besides, if you look at the picture, the ships in question are condors viewed from behind. Drones were developed to eat frigates. Which they were, and are pretty good at it. "It didnÆt take them that long - they simply upgraded their fighters a bit, added some shields and extra weapons and called the new vessels frigates." They're not referring to a jump in ship design from fighter->frigate in our terms: that is way more than 'a bit'...more of a corvette/proto-frigate design similar to our rookie ships. It doesn't make sense to refer to a backstory which was made ages before carriers and Titans were concieved of. Unless I'm wrong. [rp n00b] frigates contain more then 1 pilot
Acwron	Posted - 2006.01.07 23:23:00 - [38] Originally by: Castar Originally by: Acwron Edited by: Acwron on 07/01/2006 19:19:38 e.g. - Minmatar Carrier: + 10% Bonus Explosiv Damage + 5% reduction in Shield and Armor transfer duration per level (<-- though this one is really useless :) - Gallente Carrier: + 10% Bonus Thermal Damage + some other Bonus Yeah that would probably balance them... and also make carriers "boring", as in: not much really distinguishes one carrier from another... [...] Well actually it would create diversity because atm the Gallente Carrier is 1.5 times better than the other Carriers and thus anybody who is going by the raw numbers will be going for the Gallente one. And there is no incentive to use the Carrier's Fighter type. Atm you would use a mixed fighter fleet in order to be able to deal all damage types. Or a specific type if you know what kind of damage you are going to need. I'd love to have all Carriers to have balanced and unique bonuses but even CCP was unable to come up with that.
RedWyvern	Posted - 2006.01.07 23:28:00 - [39] Originally by: FiGHT XZen Originally by: RedWyvern Hold on. Are you sure the 'fighters' referred to in the chronicle aren't just frigates? After all, they contain a single pilot too - and at an early stage of the Gallente-Caldari war, clone technology wouldn't have proliferated. And besides, if you look at the picture, the ships in question are condors viewed from behind. Drones were developed to eat frigates. Which they were, and are pretty good at it. "It didnÆt take them that long - they simply upgraded their fighters a bit, added some shields and extra weapons and called the new vessels frigates." They're not referring to a jump in ship design from fighter->frigate in our terms: that is way more than 'a bit'...more of a corvette/proto-frigate design similar to our rookie ships. It doesn't make sense to refer to a backstory which was made ages before carriers and Titans were concieved of. Unless I'm wrong. [rp n00b] frigates contain more then 1 pilot No, they don't. Frigates are small and simple enough to be controlled by a single pod pilot, the only exception afaik being the Kestrel. Something to do with its status as a 'cargo runner' or something, I dunno. -------------------------------------------------- Loyalty, Integrity, Honour.
Noriath	Posted - 2006.01.07 23:29:00 - [40] Edited by: Noriath on 07/01/2006 23:31:40 Frigates are acctually pretty big ships acctually, when you compare them to what you would refer to as a space fighter, just with pod technology a single person can pilot them... But the Eve universe really plays out nothing like the fiction. According to the fiction Caldari used fast fighters against slow gallente ship untill gallente came up with drones that could swarm the fighters and utterly decimate them. Since you didn't need to train pilots for drones the war was going badly for Caldari who were losing fighters all over the place. To beef up their individual pilots ships Caldari started using the new pod technology to create single-pilot frigates, which could hold their own against drones... However in reality frigates get totally owned by drones, fighters are a total uberweapon, and the only ship that still exists that was already in service during the Gallente Caldari war (Dominix) can't acctually launch fighters, you need a much bigger ship that wasn't even invented yet back then to do that. Then again, the description of one of the Caldari carriers staes that it was built to resemble the ship that was kamikazed into that one city during the war... Doesn't make a lot of sense. I always thought the entire Caldari/Gallente war story served to illustrate why there are no manned fighters in the world of Eve...
RedWyvern	Posted - 2006.01.07 23:56:00 - [41] Originally by: Noriath Edited by: Noriath on 07/01/2006 23:31:40 Frigates are acctually pretty big ships acctually, when you compare them to what you would refer to as a space fighter, just with pod technology a single person can pilot them... But the Eve universe really plays out nothing like the fiction. According to the fiction Caldari used fast fighters against slow gallente ship untill gallente came up with drones that could swarm the fighters and utterly decimate them. Since you didn't need to train pilots for drones the war was going badly for Caldari who were losing fighters all over the place. To beef up their individual pilots ships Caldari started using the new pod technology to create single-pilot frigates, which could hold their own against drones... However in reality frigates get totally owned by drones, fighters are a total uberweapon, and the only ship that still exists that was already in service during the Gallente Caldari war (Dominix) can't acctually launch fighters, you need a much bigger ship that wasn't even invented yet back then to do that. Then again, the description of one of the Caldari carriers staes that it was built to resemble the ship that was kamikazed into that one city during the war... Doesn't make a lot of sense. I always thought the entire Caldari/Gallente war story served to illustrate why there are no manned fighters in the world of Eve... Thank you. Thats what needed to be stated. Lockeh please. -------------------------------------------------- Loyalty, Integrity, Honour.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.08 00:07:00 - [42] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Right. So we've got it down pat. Fighters are not drones. They've got little pilots in there and everything. So why do the Gallente yet again get an awesome, awesome bonus to fighter damage that frankly BELONGS to the Caldari, when the Caldari are the undisputed masters of fighter combat in the fictional history of Eve Online, and fighters aren't the same thing as drones at all? http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/aug04.asp Originally by: Gallente-Caldari War: The War Drones On For a while the Federation could do little else than watch the Caldari play havoc upon the Gallentean fleet and the outermost provinces of the Federation. The Caldari were getting ever bolder and every few months they seemed to have a new and improved version of their nimble solo-fighters, which the Federation had few answers against. To many Gallenteans it seemed inevitable that, unless their demands were met, the Caldari would sooner or later overrun the whole Federation. Everything the Gallenteans tried failed - their attempts for their own solo-fighters were utter failure and stationary defenses such as mines and sentry guns could only go so far in protecting space facilities for long. It seemed like every time the Gallenteans came up with something sleek and speedy and powerful the Caldari would soon respond with something even sleeker and more powerful. See this? It pretty much states that the Gallente were incompetent halfwits when it came to building fighters, and that the Caldari ran circles around them. The solution here is clear: give the Caldari Carrier the damage bonus from the Gallente one, and give the Gallente carrier a bonus to fighter mining capacity or dating men or something. That, or give the Cal Carrier a bonus to its fighters that also rocks, like perhaps +2 launched per level. Thus spake balancefuhrer Shogaatsu! QFT, give us what's rightfully ours goddamnit.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.01.08 00:09:00 - [43] Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 08/01/2006 00:15:59 Originally by: R3 1D It's to make up for the fact that Caldari have the uber-est freighter when Gallente are haulage kings Fine, we're trading you our haulers for your fighters, now all is spiffy. Give us our damn Fighters. Originally by: The Major Modern fighters used by pod piloted Carriers are vastly more effective than the human controlled fighters of yore purely because humans are no longer required in the process. As the Fighter brochures will tell you many times: The current effeciency of fighters as uber battleship killers is purely because the removal of the pilot made room for REALLY BIG GUNS. You've never read the info on Fighters, have you? Originally by: RedWyvern Hold on. Are you sure the 'fighters' referred to in the chronicle aren't just frigates? After all, they contain a single pilot too - and at an early stage of the Gallente-Caldari war, clone technology wouldn't have proliferated. Yes, they are different. Frigates became solo-piloted ONLY with the introduction of Pod-technology.
Shayla Sh'inlux	Posted - 2006.01.08 00:15:00 - [44] Can we trade EW capability too?
Mallik Hendrake	Posted - 2006.01.08 00:22:00 - [45] Why don't they just rename gallente fighters to "Gallente Drone Squadron" or something. Or whatever the name of their fighter is. :) -------------------------------------------- "A plan is just a list of things that don't happen." -- Parker, _The Way of the Gun_ Mallik Hendrake E X O D U S [I do not speak for E X O or IRON]
Nybbas	Posted - 2006.01.08 01:29:00 - [46] yeah and while you try to argue this point, lets argue the point that the gallente are supposed to be the masters of ewar : /
The Major	Posted - 2006.01.08 02:06:00 - [47] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia You've never read the info on Fighters, have you? Many times. I just selectively edited it in my memory afterwards to something that actually made sense...
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2006.01.08 15:16:00 - [48] Yeah, so give the Caldari carrier the 10% damage bonus, to represent fighter superiority, and let the Gallente have the +2 fighters controlled per level since they're supposedly better at swarming, but mostly to just shut them up.
Voltron	Posted - 2006.01.08 15:37:00 - [49] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu give the Gallente carrier a bonus to fighter mining capacity or dating men or something. LMAO, best laugh I've had in awhile, thx m8 Volt
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.01.08 15:38:00 - [50] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Yeah, so give the Caldari carrier the 10% damage bonus, to represent fighter superiority, and let the Gallente have the +2 fighters controlled per level since they're supposedly better at swarming, but mostly to just shut them up. Agreed. -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.01.08 15:47:00 - [51] "Yeah, so give the Caldari carrier the 10% damage bonus, to represent fighter superiority, and let the Gallente have the +2 fighters controlled per level since they're supposedly better at swarming, but mostly to just shut them up." ... that'd kind of mean while Caldari carrier gets 50% damage bonus, the Gallente carrier gets the same bonus (15 fighters instead of 10 for everyone else) and 50% fighter hp bonus, simply because it has more of them deployed at any given time.
Hew Pith	Posted - 2006.01.08 15:55:00 - [52] Originally by: Description of Fighters Skill Allows operation of fighter drones. 20% increase in fighter damage per level. Why should the caldari recieve a bonus from anything related to drones?
Scalor Valentis	Posted - 2006.01.08 15:59:00 - [53] In current situation, Galentte need nerffage to 5% instead of 10% anyway. every other race recieves 5% of bonus to there speisal ability. on lvl 5, amarr and caldari carriers got 25% bonus, while Gahylentte gets 50% That means, you need to fit 2 damage mods to reach the smae DPS as galentte by default, when galentte needs to fit only 1 module to be par with others. Also, lets not forget, that minmatar bonus is something we can only use to recharge outpost/pos shields. in Fleetcombat you dont have fast enought lock time to repair BS's. And when people screamed the minnie carrier shuld repair people in SS....well i can only give you <-- that, tards.
Selim	Posted - 2006.01.08 16:53:00 - [54] Minnie carrier should get snowball launcher bonus tbh
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.01.08 16:55:00 - [55] Edited by: j0sephine on 08/01/2006 16:55:40 "Why should the caldari recieve a bonus from anything related to drones?" Because fighters are "single-pilot combat vessels, deployable from carriers and motherships", not "self-propelled, remote-controlled robots" (which is what drones are) (quoting descriptions as argument is pointless, they contradict one another half the time as you can see...)
Azuriel Talloth	Posted - 2006.01.08 17:33:00 - [56] Sounds like someone at CCP needs to read their own backstory
Nikolai Nuvolari	Posted - 2006.01.08 17:50:00 - [57] Edited by: Nikolai Nuvolari on 08/01/2006 17:50:43 Originally by: Description of Fighters Skill Allows operation of fighter drones. 20% increase in fighter damage per level. Why should the Gallente recieve a bonus from anything related to fighters? -------------------------------------[04:04:04] Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk [04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw [07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Jon Xylur	Posted - 2006.01.08 18:21:00 - [58] Even tho fighters were created by the Caldari, the Gallente are the ones with most experiance of small craft launched from the ship. Besides, since fighters are issued orders from the pod pilot in the same manner as drones, they function like big, manned drones. Gallente being the drone specialist, having fighter damage bonus one their carrier makes sence. Damn Caldari allways whining about how they should be better at everything. What's next, a Caldari laser boat?
RedWyvern	Posted - 2006.01.08 19:11:00 - [59] Originally by: Azuriel Talloth Sounds like someone at CCP needs to read their own backstory If we were to stick completely to the backstory of the game, racial balance would be completely, utterly, and totally bolloxed. Istvaan - 10% damage bonus for Caldari, +2 drones for Gallente? that works out fine - Gallente still get left with the best carrier overall. Who cares about having to swarm a target so long as you win the fight? -------------------------------------------------- Loyalty, Integrity, Honour.

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