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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:00:00 -
[1]
Right. So we've got it down pat. Fighters are not drones. They've got little pilots in there and everything. So why do the Gallente yet again get an awesome, awesome bonus to fighter damage that frankly BELONGS to the Caldari, when the Caldari are the undisputed masters of fighter combat in the fictional history of Eve Online, and fighters aren't the same thing as drones at all?
http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/aug04.asp
 Originally by: Gallente-Caldari War: The War Drones On
For a while the Federation could do little else than watch the Caldari play havoc upon the Gallentean fleet and the outermost provinces of the Federation. The Caldari were getting ever bolder and every few months they seemed to have a new and improved version of their nimble solo-fighters, which the Federation had few answers against. To many Gallenteans it seemed inevitable that, unless their demands were met, the Caldari would sooner or later overrun the whole Federation. Everything the Gallenteans tried failed - their attempts for their own solo-fighters were utter failure and stationary defenses such as mines and sentry guns could only go so far in protecting space facilities for long. It seemed like every time the Gallenteans came up with something sleek and speedy and powerful the Caldari would soon respond with something even sleeker and more powerful.
See this? It pretty much states that the Gallente were incompetent halfwits when it came to building fighters, and that the Caldari ran circles around them. The solution here is clear: give the Caldari Carrier the damage bonus from the Gallente one, and give the Gallente carrier a bonus to fighter mining capacity or dating men or something. That, or give the Cal Carrier a bonus to its fighters that also rocks, like perhaps +2 launched per level. Thus spake balancefuhrer Shogaatsu!
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Shinnen
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:02:00 -
[2]
omg he's right new gallente!!!!!!!!!!1 boost caldari, give raven fighter controll!!! woot! also every time a fighter dies, wont there be a little pod, or do people just **DIE** ? O_O
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NTRabbit
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:03:00 -
[3]
When fighters die, the pilots die. No pods. I thought that topic had been done and dusted already?
Anyway, I completely agree. Caldari are supposed to be the inventors and indeed kings of fighter combat.
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Kyle Caldrel
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:06:00 -
[4]
100% agree
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What ya gonna do, when I come for you!?
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:07:00 -
[5]
like you said in the past. dont you know gallente > all 
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ALPHA12125
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:09:00 -
[6]
agree. let the caldari get their fighter bonus. and call the gallente fighters, drones remove the pilot put in a AI and make it a 15% damage bonus.
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Sun Sliver
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
The solution here is clear: give the Caldari Carrier the damage bonus from the Gallente one, and give the Gallente carrier a bonus to fighter mining capacity or dating men or something.
ROFL ahhh i needed that...
He's got a point...if CCP makes the content makes sense it should follow it
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:12:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 07/01/2006 16:13:44
Meh, what abaut the minmatars, they shuld get something else, like speed bonus.
The repairing boni is utter poo and redundant in current EVE.
Like speed bonus or signature or whatnot (combat related) - anything is beter than that totaly useless boni we now got
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:19:00 -
[9]
As much sense as it makes, if it happened the amount of whining would be unreal. Picture Tuxford's original thread about drone changes, and double that -.o
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:31:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 07/01/2006 16:31:48
Well, I'm guessing the tech situation has changed a little since the Gal-Cal war.
But more differentation between the Fighters would be nice. (And more than one per side, even if they only have different GUNS!)
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
NTRabbit
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:32:00 -
[11]
Edited by: NTRabbit on 07/01/2006 16:33:35
Originally by: j0sephine
As much sense as it makes, if it happened the amount of whining would be unreal. Picture Tuxford's original thread about drone changes, and double that -.o
So we should not change the game because the Gallente whine the loudest and longest?
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Dr Happy
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:44:00 -
[12]
Originally by: NTRabbit
Edited by: NTRabbit on 07/01/2006 16:33:35
Originally by: j0sephine
As much sense as it makes, if it happened the amount of whining would be unreal. Picture Tuxford's original thread about drone changes, and double that -.o
So we should not change the game because the Gallente whine the loudest and longest?
I dunno it'd be kind of hardf to beat you caldari
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:46:00 -
[13]
Yea, according to that entier history drones are so superior to fighters that they became obsolete, so I think CCP is really not keeping with the background by making them the uberweapon of RMR...
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Sandzibarr
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:55:00 -
[14]
so should the gallentee carrier be a true drone carrier instead to keep with the background story? seems they beat the caldari fighters though weight of numbers with their cheaper and easily produced unmanned drones..
so.. remove the fighters and give +20 drone control per level for the carriers as a gall bonus? lol 
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R3 1D
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:55:00 -
[15]
It's to make up for the fact that Caldari have the uber-est freighter when Gallente are haulage kings
(Yes, my main account is broken)
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Nukeitall
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Posted - 2006.01.07 16:58:00 -
[16]
While I agree, I think that the gallente fighter should just have the pilot removed.
That way everyone's happy. Caldari get their "fighters" and gallente get their super heavy drones.
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NTRabbit
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Posted - 2006.01.07 17:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nukeitall
While I agree, I think that the gallente fighter should just have the pilot removed.
That way everyone's happy. Caldari get their "fighters" and gallente get their super heavy drones.
That means that the Gallente Fighter will need to have its stats reduced then, since its stated in the fiction that they werent a match for the Caldari one on one, rather they could only win in large groups.
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Selim
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Posted - 2006.01.07 17:09:00 -
[18]
The Caldari only used to be the fighter lovers. Nowdays they abbhor fast craft and focus on long-range ships and large, slow cement-shoe-type craft.
Military doctrine of a war 100 years ago doesn't neccesarily apply today.
If anything, the minmatar should have the best carriers, as they still practice the doctrine of using small, fast attack craft. They have the smallest navy and the least capital ships and thus would absolutely love a carrier with heavy strike capabilities.
At the very least, the repair bonus should be changed to something else. Its almost useless compared to the gallente bonus, and still not as good as the caldari and amarr tanking bonuses.
Basically the caldari don't deserve the best bonus, but neither do the gallente. Realistically, though, the three of them all have their reasons to get the best carrier. The Amarr just suck and shouldn't bother even making carriers period. Their titan owns anyway... 37.5% capacitor recharge boost for gang members anyone?
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Bagdh Dearg
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Posted - 2006.01.07 17:20:00 -
[19]
Thats why they need to make the distinqtion. Caldari(And Amarr?) use fighters while the Gallente(And Minmatar) should use XL Drones. I know it's merely a rewording of what already exsists but it makes sense to change that ever so slightly.
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An tT nach bhfuil lßidir nf folßir d= bheith glic
-He who is not strong must be crafty |
Relena mearfire
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Posted - 2006.01.07 17:31:00 -
[20]
the time caldari had the wtf pwn fighters was years and years ago.
and as caldari seem to have all but neglected their small fighter/drones of late it's not hard to see how gallente who embraced theirs after would still know how to get more dammage adn other abilitys out of the super small ships.
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Kyle Caldrel
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Posted - 2006.01.07 17:37:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Kyle Caldrel on 07/01/2006 17:37:41
ffs, go back to your mining op gallente shemaIes
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What ya gonna do, when I come for you!?
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Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2006.01.07 17:39:00 -
[22]
Mmmmm. Balance.
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2006.01.07 18:22:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
See this? It pretty much states that the Gallente were incompetent halfwits when it came to building fighters, and that the Caldari ran circles around them.
As much as you are correct about the past, modern Caldari doctrine clearly favors sluggish snipers with advanced electronics. Still, I can see how carriers and titans and whatnot are too large to have been designed in modern times, they MUST have much legacy in pre-war technology, and thus Caldari should still be fighter kings. Oh, I think I just disagreed and agreed to the thread in just one post.
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The Major
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Posted - 2006.01.07 18:45:00 -
[24]
Modern fighters used by pod piloted Carriers are vastly more effective than the human controlled fighters of yore purely because humans are no longer required in the process. As the Fighter brochures will tell you many times: The current effeciency of fighters as uber battleship killers is purely because the removal of the pilot made room for REALLY BIG GUNS.
Given that the Gallente pioneered remotely controlled craft in the form of drones it's not a great suprise that their carriers are better at controlling this current generation.
Us Caldari instead focused on designing larger more flexible ships from the old Fighter blueprints designed to counter Drones. We are of course credited with the very invention of Frigates. Which is why ours are best 
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.01.07 18:56:00 -
[25]
"Modern fighters used by pod piloted Carriers are vastly more effective than the human controlled fighters of yore purely because humans are no longer required in the process. As the Fighter brochures will tell you many times: The current effeciency of fighters as uber battleship killers is purely because the removal of the pilot made room for REALLY BIG GUNS."
... except the modern fighters still do have human pilots. You can even see them when you take close look at the model, and it's specifically said these ships are controlled by pilots with no capsule to protect them in case of death o.O;
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2006.01.07 19:01:00 -
[26]
It's realy sad that not many ppl care about roleplaying or at least have a sense of consistency with the game's fiction.
I mean I made a thread about the amarr carrier having a shield boost bonus and not many ppl seemed to care...
IMO fiction should come first so the things we fly have a sense of uniqueness... we'll get the balance straightened out some way
In short, give more dmg or something to caldari fighters and maybe have the gallente carriers use more of them at once with less abilites 
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Leon 026
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Posted - 2006.01.07 19:12:00 -
[27]
Quote:
As much as you are correct about the past, modern Caldari doctrine clearly favors sluggish snipers with advanced electronics. Still, I can see how carriers and titans and whatnot are too large to have been designed in modern times, they MUST have much legacy in pre-war technology, and thus Caldari should still be fighter kings. Oh, I think I just disagreed and agreed to the thread in just one post.
Well, that would make sense if these lumbering behemoths are old-ace relics of pre-war technology; which would be plausible that over the course of hundreds of years, the technology "degraded" due to peope cutting corners, and such the real efficiency of pre-war tech dissappeared and we now have less-efficient ships compared to pre-war standards. It could explain why these "new" carriers are somewhat more superior as they retain their pre-war tech efficiency while much of the races moved on and begun to rely on pod-piloted fighters (ie Frigates) which over the years have had bigger and more powerful weapon systems being piled on, losing all pre-war agility.
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Be Caldari, be proud.
Haak-kin k'len
Leon / LN026
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Acwron
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Posted - 2006.01.07 19:16:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Acwron on 07/01/2006 19:18:36
Well playing the roleplayer card wasn't really necassary Istvaan but if it helps to shed some light on imbalance of the bonus of Carriers (and Motherships) fair enough. (well you were never shy about the means were you Istvaan ;)
But enough ranting. How about all Carriers get a faction damage based bonus (Fighter Primary Racial Damage) as well as another Bonus (not a big one. Along the lines of the Minmatar Carrier Bonus).
e.g.
- Minmatar Carrier:
+ 10% Bonus Explosiv Damage
+ 5% reduction in Shield and Armor transfer duration per level (<-- though this one is really useless :))
- Gallente Carrier:
+ 10% Bonus Thermal Damage
+ some other Bonus
etc.
It would balance the Carriers. And aswell make it a bit easier to counter them since you would know what kind of Damage to expect.
This kind of Bonus would aswell give only 2/3 of the current Gallente Damage Bonus since it effects the primary racial damage type of the Fighters.
PS: and this would of course encourage the use of the fighters that belong to the Carrier, not just a mix to deal all Damage kinds or the one in need.
Goes along well with the way the other ships were designed.
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Filan
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Posted - 2006.01.07 19:21:00 -
[29]
Caldari Carrier launched torpedo bombers. =D
would be cool to have different fighter types, intercepters and fighter bombers.
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Squidfoam
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Posted - 2006.01.07 19:22:00 -
[30]
The fiction has never been much of a source for the game design. In case you didn't notice;
The fiction states that jump gates only work in systems with TWO OR MORE SUNS.
Every system in EVE ONLY HAS ONE SUN.
Bit of a, you know, contradiction. 
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