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Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
427
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 19:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dear True Slave Foundations.
Thessalonia, Polevhia, Sato, all you others... I'm sure you recognise me as a definite critic of yours. Few are quicker to pounce with some dismissive remark or snipe if you show up in a topic uninvited, as you often do. I have my reasons, and I'm far from alone in my dislike of Sansha's Nation. I've never felt a moment's regret or hesitation when it came to annihilating a Sansha warship, or even unarmed industrials. It's easy to consider such actions as extermination, as putting sad remnants of humanity out of their misery. I've expressed such opinions many times.
I've lost people to Nation. I had my brain screwed with by bits of your technology, and I've seen the kind of madness and destruction that you cause every time you open a wormhole. I remember vividly hearing about the first incursions, and the total figures of people abducted.
I've had time to think recently, though. Not much else to do, for various reasons that I do not care to share. My mind has, for reasons that escape me, kept returning to a few moments where some comment or argument that you've made has actually been sensible, or at least more sensible than most of what surrounds it. My typical response has been to dismiss it on the basis of its source, or at least be as disdainful as possible in my agreement.
Enough.
I've never actually spoken in any depth with one of your kind. Whether you are actually individuals of any note any more, or just mouthpieces for old man Kuvakei, I don't particularly care. So I invite you to come forward, give me the hard sell. Tell me why Nation is justified in what it does, why this 'paradise' you describe is so grand. Tell me of Kuvakei's vision, and why I should submit to it.
I have my biases and hatreds and bile for Nation, but you have my word that for this thread, I will restrain them. I want to understand.
I'll even avoid using the 'T' word. |
Lyn Farel
Kitzless
590
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Posted - 2013.09.08 19:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Besides the usual propaganda that does more harm than good to them in my humble opinion, TSF sometimes makes sensible arguments as well. |
Sofia Roseburn
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
49
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Posted - 2013.09.08 20:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
I, for one, would be more than happy to have a discussion with you about my interpretation of Kuvakei's vision....as soon as you can actually eschew bias.
Until that point I don't think it's worthwhile. If only we had more people like Launette Vylier. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1749
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 22:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Whilst the attempt at reaching out is appreciated, the tone (use of scare quotes, etc) of portions of your request lead me to agree with my colleague in that there would be no benefit to us in engaging in this dialogue until such time as you have cleared your mind of past hatreds, or at least managed to successfully suppress them temporarily.
Sorry. |
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
428
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 22:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Change in attitude is unlikely if I am offered nothing to debate or consider, no? For the record, the 'scare quotes' were intended as actual quotes from the rhetoric that you yourselves often use, rather than for any negative connotations. |
Jikkarr
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
9
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 22:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
There is no debate, nor consideration as one has presented. As much as I can appreciate your desires, I'm afraid these cannot be fulfilled as you seek.
Your attitude is your own, and you have my assurance that changing it is far from our preference. "The thing's hollow, it goes on forever (and).. My God, it's full of stars" ~Arthur C. Clarke |
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
428
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 23:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jikkarr wrote:There is no debate, nor consideration as one has presented. As much as I can appreciate your desires, I'm afraid these cannot be fulfilled as you seek.
Your attitude is your own, and you have my assurance that changing it is far from our preference.
As you wish. |
Charity Black
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 07:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
You might as well ask a psychotic man what his hallucinations and voices in his head means. You are asking them to explain what is unexplainable, the psychotic delusions of a mad man.
Exterminate the Sansha, they are worse than the Amarr. |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
79
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 09:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
I am actually quite interested in an explanation of the reasons why Nation members think they are superior to the other empires. I understand you feel a bias is present (which is unavoidable), but you would do an injustice to your Nation and people if you didn't give a full example why we are misguided...perhaps many will not agree but it would help if but one did...would it not?
-Eran |
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
302
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 10:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Not to simply echo what my friends said moments ago, but yes the main hurdle at this point for someone in your position Pilot Tyrathlion is bias. I'll expand.
I came to the Foundations actually fairly recently compared to many others, I have only been with the organization for seven months. Before my time in the Foundations I was, like many independant Capsuleers, just drifting where the ISK took me. For a while it was to Black Rise, then to Malpais under the watchful eye of Solar Fleet and their many minions, then back to Empire space. In my return from Nullsec I actually founded an organization that focused in providing assistance to Capsuleer fleets fighting against Nation.
Rather then being 'sold' on Nation by Tiberious (who really was at the time the only person I knew of in the Foundations, precious few of the others thought discussion with Outsiders was worth bothering with), I researched things purely on my own. I asked questions. I listened. I considered. I sought out stories from both CONCORD and Nation. I compared goals, achievements, and atrocities on both sides. Yes I do say both sides on that last one. I'm not a mindless supporter of my cause, though I think it to be best I do not think it to be wholly perfect. Humans are flawed, and we are all human.
And because I thought the future of Humanity was more important then any set of laws or moralities that I used to subscribe to I let go of my prejudice against Nation. I'm in this for the end game. Because without that, I see life as rather pointless. Your own reasoning will of course differ and I wish you luck in your own journey. As long as you are willing to keep an open mind. |
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Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
428
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 11:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
On the contrary, Ms Polevhia - your response is considerably more useful than a simple echo, and I thank you for it. |
Derek Quaid
Discreet Bounties
214
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 11:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Let me get this straight:
The arrogant, self-righteous toasters won't discuss the merits of their position because of the audience's anti-Nation bias, despite their constant need to interject on everything else where the audience has an anti-Nation bias?
What would the state of discourse be if everyone took that approach?
"No, I won't discuss my position with you until you have already abandoned yours."
Good luck selling anyone, you obnoxious pricks. I can see why you go the abduction route. CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties |
Confliktus
Cupid Stunts. The Wolfpack Nexus
22
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Posted - 2013.09.09 11:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sofia Roseburn wrote:I, for one, would be more than happy to have a discussion with you about my interpretation of Kuvakei's vision....as soon as you can actually eschew bias.
Until that point I don't think it's worthwhile.
I would be interested in reading about what this .. " vision" .. might be. |
Sofia Roseburn
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
49
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 12:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Derek Quaid wrote:Let me get this straight:
The arrogant, self-righteous toasters won't discuss the merits of their position because of the audience's anti-Nation bias, despite their constant need to interject on everything else where the audience has an anti-Nation bias?
Citation needed.
If you want to walk among the adults Quaid, at least try and act like one. If only we had more people like Launette Vylier. |
Shiori Shaishi
Terpalen Trading Corporation
59
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 13:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Derek Quaid wrote:arrogant, self-righteous toasters..
Derek Quaid wrote:..the audience's anti-Nation bias Simply beautiful. |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera JIHADASQUAD
1031
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 14:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Maybe Quaid should hire someone to sling his mud for him anonymously? Discreetly? Sabik now, Sabik forever |
DeadRow
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
129
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 22:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
I have no interest in preaching over the IGS though if you wish to hit me up privately, be my guest I suppose.
-Hikari |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
83
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 00:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
DeadRow wrote:I have no interest in preaching over the IGS though if you wish to hit me up privately, be my guest I suppose.
-Hikari
Why are Nation supporters so hesitant to say things publicly? I understand many may berate you but I'd figure you lot are used to it by now. This is an opportunity that no salesman or saleswoman can pass up on.
-Eran |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1750
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 03:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:DeadRow wrote:I have no interest in preaching over the IGS though if you wish to hit me up privately, be my guest I suppose.
-Hikari Why are Nation supporters so hesitant to say things publicly? I understand many may berate you but I'd figure you lot are used to it by now. This is an opportunity that no salesman or saleswoman can pass up on. -Eran
Quite simply, Captain, we are no longer trying to sell an idea.
We are letting our actions speak for us. |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
84
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 03:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Well your actions are failing. Please give some credibility to say otherwise.
-Eran |
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1752
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 03:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:Well your actions are failing. Please give some credibility to say otherwise.
-Eran
Not sure what this means, to be honest. |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
84
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 08:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
In all honesty, I've had a bit too much whiskey today. With that said, I know you could've said something that'd make me shutup for a few weeks, as you should've.
However you didn't. Perhaps I'll continue a discussion if I'm not ashamed when the better part of my mind decides to take part. For now, I will retire.
-Eran |
Solarienne
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
93
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 08:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Eran Mintor wrote:Well your actions are failing. Please give some credibility to say otherwise.
-Eran Not sure what this means, to be honest.
I guess he means that because our actions do not affect him personally or peripherally, they some how have no effect at all. It also seems he is unable or unwilling to do the most cursory of searches that would turn up a wealth of intelligence on our past combat operations, despite our disinterest in the petty kill-counting of the average capsuleer.
The thing that always gets me, is capsuleers in general, even some who have claimed interest in TS-F membership, don't seem to 'get' that we're not dictating policy here. We are instruments of His will, everyone one of us a sword, some of us (such as Tiberious) can offer a mouth through which our admittedly impure, unfiltered consciousness can permit but a fraction of the Master's plan to be spoken in this base forum and others like it. But we do not listen for Nation. We do not speak for Nation but to affirm our loyalty to it.
For all your words and baiting, for your hopes and futile dreams of us coming back into the fold or dying and drifting into obscurity, you may as well try and negotiate the path of a bullet with such flowery prose, than change our collective stance.
The vast majority of us came to Nation of our own free will, but the truth is, the majority of us are but one step on a long road from the sordid, unfulfilled lives we used to lead. The best of us, in fact, is (in my humble opinion) a hollow Bodhisattva, a living ghost that shows us the way - the better parts of him remade and forged into Citizen Arson.
Simply put, we do not answer because you're not only asking the wrong questions, but you're asking the wrong people.
I have spent entirely too many words on this matter, so consider this my only input. Engaged in a scowling competition with Kuvakei since February 2013. -á
June 2013 Status: Neither contestant shows signs of fatigue. -áThe jimmies of all in proximity seem pretty rustled. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
536
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 09:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Charity Black wrote: Exterminate the Sansha, they are worse than the Amarr.
Why just "worse than the Amarr?" It tells nothing, because Amarr are culturally and morally well developed peoples with proper organization structure, defined ideals and rich history. Worse than Minmatar would be more appropriate for this comparison. Well, to not being discriminative, worse than all of us would be better.
Of course, excluding gallenteans. I can't say who is worse, gallenteans or Sansha, and I will just treat them as equal. |
Derek Quaid
Discreet Bounties
217
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 11:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Why just "worse than the Amarr?" It tells nothing, because Amarr are culturally and morally well developed peoples with proper organization structure, defined ideals and rich history. Worse than Minmatar would be more appropriate for this comparison. Well, to not being discriminative, worse than all of us would be better.
Of course, excluding gallenteans. I can't say who is worse, gallenteans or Sansha, and I will just treat them as equal. The space zombies are products of a Caldari megalomaniac. Doesn't that mean you should be all over their spikes like a dog in heat, Kim?
CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
536
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 11:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
Derek Quaid wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Why just "worse than the Amarr?" It tells nothing, because Amarr are culturally and morally well developed peoples with proper organization structure, defined ideals and rich history. Worse than Minmatar would be more appropriate for this comparison. Well, to not being discriminative, worse than all of us would be better.
Of course, excluding gallenteans. I can't say who is worse, gallenteans or Sansha, and I will just treat them as equal. The space zombies are products of a Caldari megalomaniac. Doesn't that mean you should be all over their spikes like a dog in heat, Kim? I doubt this is a correct development of the subject, so, if you don't mind, I will ask you a little bit... off-topic question as well. Mr. Quaid, do you know, why I always misread name of your corporation "Discreet Bounties" as "Doomheim"?... |
kraiklyn Asatru
T.R.I.A.D
414
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 12:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Charity Black wrote: Exterminate the Sansha, they are worse than the Amarr.
Why just "worse than the Amarr?" It tells nothing, because Amarr are culturally and morally well developed peoples with proper organization structure, defined ideals and rich history. Worse than Minmatar would be more appropriate for this comparison. Well, to not being discriminative, worse than all of us would be better. Of course, excluding gallenteans. I can't say who is worse, gallenteans or Sansha, and I will just treat them as equal.
NO just no, if proper organization structure, defined ideals are your standard of measurement it would surely mean the Sansha would rate above the Caldari.
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Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
516
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 13:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:I can't say who is worse, gallenteans or Sansha, and I will just treat them as equal. I guess this is as close as it gets to Kim saying "Gallenteans, I will treat them as equal." Edit: Somehow, I find it comforting that if I ever did join Sansha, there's at least one person non-Nation loyalist who will not think worse of me. Nightmares - A short story by Ch+¬ Biko |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
86
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 17:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Solarienne wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Eran Mintor wrote:Well your actions are failing. Please give some credibility to say otherwise.
-Eran Not sure what this means, to be honest. I guess he means that because our actions do not affect him personally or peripherally, they some how have no effect at all. It also seems he is unable or unwilling to do the most cursory of searches that would turn up a wealth of intelligence on our past combat operations, despite our disinterest in the petty kill-counting of the average capsuleer. The thing that always gets me, is capsuleers in general, even some who have claimed interest in TS-F membership, don't seem to 'get' that we're not dictating policy here. We are instruments of His will, everyone one of us a sword, some of us (such as Tiberious) can offer a mouth through which our admittedly impure, unfiltered consciousness can permit but a fraction of the Master's plan to be spoken in this base forum and others like it. But we do not listen for Nation. We do not speak for Nation but to affirm our loyalty to it. For all your words and baiting, for your hopes and futile dreams of us coming back into the fold or dying and drifting into obscurity, you may as well try and negotiate the path of a bullet with such flowery prose, than change our collective stance. The vast majority of us came to Nation of our own free will, but the truth is, the majority of us are but one step on a long road from the sordid, unfulfilled lives we used to lead. The best of us, in fact, is (in my humble opinion) a hollow Bodhisattva, a living ghost that shows us the way - the better parts of him remade and forged into Citizen Arson. Simply put, we do not answer because you're not only asking the wrong questions, but you're asking the wrong people. I have spent entirely too many words on this matter, so consider this my only input.
Ah yes thank you for putting words in my mouth. I always appreciate that.
-Eran |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1754
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 17:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:Solarienne wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Eran Mintor wrote:Well your actions are failing. Please give some credibility to say otherwise.
-Eran Not sure what this means, to be honest. I guess he means that because our actions do not affect him personally or peripherally, they some how have no effect at all. It also seems he is unable or unwilling to do the most cursory of searches that would turn up a wealth of intelligence on our past combat operations, despite our disinterest in the petty kill-counting of the average capsuleer. The thing that always gets me, is capsuleers in general, even some who have claimed interest in TS-F membership, don't seem to 'get' that we're not dictating policy here. We are instruments of His will, everyone one of us a sword, some of us (such as Tiberious) can offer a mouth through which our admittedly impure, unfiltered consciousness can permit but a fraction of the Master's plan to be spoken in this base forum and others like it. But we do not listen for Nation. We do not speak for Nation but to affirm our loyalty to it. For all your words and baiting, for your hopes and futile dreams of us coming back into the fold or dying and drifting into obscurity, you may as well try and negotiate the path of a bullet with such flowery prose, than change our collective stance. The vast majority of us came to Nation of our own free will, but the truth is, the majority of us are but one step on a long road from the sordid, unfulfilled lives we used to lead. The best of us, in fact, is (in my humble opinion) a hollow Bodhisattva, a living ghost that shows us the way - the better parts of him remade and forged into Citizen Arson. Simply put, we do not answer because you're not only asking the wrong questions, but you're asking the wrong people. I have spent entirely too many words on this matter, so consider this my only input. Ah yes thank you for putting words in my mouth. I always appreciate that. -Eran
Ignore the first paragraph. Read the rest.
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