difference in damage its not so big anymore but its still noticeable.
1. i think torps need a range buff they should cover 30km max skill w/o ship bonus (rocket 10km, ham 20km, torps 30km)
2. i think torps should apply damage better than cruise since they are a short range weapon, same way ham and rockets apply damage better than they long range counterpart.

no need of damage boost (even if i would be happy to have one)

Less than third of the range for 25% (being gracious)of the damage AND harder to fit isn't a good exchange.

Personally I only think torps need a few fixes.

First: Fitting. Now I'll state that my opinion is that the fitting on torps should be reduced making them easier to fit, but I am open to things happening the other way. But my reasoning for this is this:
Torpedo Launcher II: 88 CPU, 1838 PG

how about they nerf cruise missiles instead? ^_^

How would this make torps better? Torps aren't competing against cruise missiles. They're competing against blasters, ACs and Pulse lasers.

Level 4 missions don't matter.

......so TPs are going to make torps useful on battleships? Or are you basing your assesment on bombers alone

How would this make torps better? Torps aren't competing against cruise missiles. They're competing against blasters, ACs and Pulse lasers.

The point that cruise are so good for pve that torps are difficult to justify makes sense, but as Malc says, we can't necessarily just make a change based on that situation when both torps and cruise are trying to compete in the pvp environment and for now are still beat out by turrets in most situations.

Any change done to ammo it self, launchers or skill tree will exponentially benefit to Bombers that are already way too good.

And it's close to impossible to correct SB's bonuses.
:sarcasm:

Hello

A lot of good points in here. I don't think we're ready to make a big change to torps or cruise right now, but I agree that we need to think about it. The point that cruise are so good for pve that torps are difficult to justify makes sense, but as Malc says, we can't necessarily just make a change based on that situation when both torps and cruise are trying to compete in the pvp environment and for now are still beat out by turrets in most situations.

One of the ideas that I agree most with is that the rof feels very long which can make torps harder to manage, and the ammo capacity is very low so it feels like you have to reload too much.

I'll make sure we talk about this in the near future and see if any adjustments are necessary.

That's all well and good, but I hope you also recognise that you need to make Torps viable in Lvl 4s. So if you are not prepared to change the Torps themselves, then could you reconsider the Torp bonuses assigned to the Golem to give it more range? It's ridiculous that an SB can fire Torps further than a Marauder.

Please address. With sugar and cherries on top.

30km range for a short range battleship weapon system is balanced with the other SR systems and ships, comparing Golem to Sbs is silly however, not only for ship size but most important because of their totally different role.

Indeed it's an option but not mandatory, it's the easiest road to take it's pretty obvious.
What is less obvious is the overall impact when you touch more than one ship with different roles because of a simple issue that can perfectly be easily solved by improving a simple EWAR module, and by the same time a hole race EWAR dedicated ships like Minmatar that are pretty well known for the useless side of their EWAR.

Amirite or Amiwrong it's not the point, it's an opinion.

Pulse lasers and to a lesser extent 800mm arties would like a word with that.

I agree (and even liked) but you have to tread a bit carefully with the effects this will have on ceptors etc... On the other hand if you are in a ceptor and see a hostile Rapier on the overview you are most probably dead meat anyway...

Torps are in line with Blasters/Autocanons/Pulse as short range weapon system; more range means rigs efforts and it's a fair trade off.
30km range for a short range battleship weapon system is balanced with the other SR systems and ships, comparing Golem to Sbs is silly however, not only for ship size but most important because of their totally different role.

Well done for spectacularly missing the point.

Torps shouldn't be considered a short range weapon system. You shouldn't have to use rigs to obtain a reasonable range, that's crap. You don't have to do it with CMs and you shouldn't have to do it with Torps. But that's all crap anyway, because even with rigs the Torp range on a Golem still sucks balls.

I will compare SB with Golem because it proves CCP can give adequate Torp range if they choose to. They instead choose just to be difficult, as usual.

You sir, are wrong, torps are a short range weaponn system. Golem is bonused for both the short and long range weapon system, and SBs are an exeption...

30km range for a short range battleship weapon system is balanced with the other SR systems and ships, comparing Golem to Sbs is silly however, not only for ship size but most important because of their totally different role.

How is 38KM short range?

When CCP tell me I am wrong then I'll accept it, I'm not interested in your opinion.

Hello

A lot of good points in here. I don't think we're ready to make a big change to torps or cruise right now, but I agree that we need to think about it. The point that cruise are so good for pve that torps are difficult to justify makes sense, but as Malc says, we can't necessarily just make a change based on that situation when both torps and cruise are trying to compete in the pvp environment and for now are still beat out by turrets in most situations.

One of the ideas that I agree most with is that the rof feels very long which can make torps harder to manage, and the ammo capacity is very low so it feels like you have to reload too much.

I'll make sure we talk about this in the near future and see if any adjustments are necessary.

Hello

A lot of good points in here. I don't think we're ready to make a big change to torps or cruise right now, but I agree that we need to think about it. The point that cruise are so good for pve that torps are difficult to justify makes sense, but as Malc says, we can't necessarily just make a change based on that situation when both torps and cruise are trying to compete in the pvp environment and for now are still beat out by turrets in most situations.

One of the ideas that I agree most with is that the rof feels very long which can make torps harder to manage, and the ammo capacity is very low so it feels like you have to reload too much.

I'll make sure we talk about this in the near future and see if any adjustments are necessary.

In my opinion, torpedoes should be long range, slow, massive damage dealing ammo. In pvp fired from far behind the brawl. Useless in Pve