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Alicia Aishai
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
5
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Posted - 2013.09.10 06:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:1) Why everything about James 315, said by him or not, has to involve biblic  walls of text? 2) In case this gank happened, James 315 has actually succeeded. One of his objectives is to wake up some miners from their slumber and show them more of the full game. This is what happened. 1 in a 1000 but happened.
If he succeeded, then why wasn't he boasting of his success, as he usually does so well. No he was just pissed off and logged out. James315 is just a pathological egomaniac, nothing more. He would feel powerful with his (supposedly) risk free gank strategy, he wants attention on him like a kid. As the op pointed out, he would never accept any duels, even after taunting people into asking a duel. No balls at all. Avoiding real PvP by ganking miners who cannot fight back - that's about all what he can do. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
155
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Posted - 2013.09.10 06:23:00 -
[32] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:S Byerley wrote:
And I just call bullshit on the second one; if you can suicide to pull concord off grid, miners can suicide to pull concord on grid. CCP has never publicly said anything else and it's a downright dumb notion.
Pulling concord about is fine.
The notion that you can do it a little but not a lot is, again, downright dumb - so dumb that I refuse to dignify it with witty put-downs.
baltec1 wrote:Using concord as invincible bodyguards is an exploit.
In response to the question of whether you can use Concord as "your personal mining op suicide ganking defense fleet"
CCP Atropos wrote:How does my reply differ from that you quoted? The reasoning is that you're deliberately using free ships (noob frigates) and alts to bypass the risk and penalties incurred by angering CONCORD. The incurred penalties are ignored since there's no financial loss, and no meaningful security loss, since you would delete the character afterwards. Of course, if you're willing to live with these penalties, and don't delete the offending character, then there's no problem, since it is working as intended (you lose your ship, become criminally flagged, and incur a security hit). Although no one will really like you since you're spawning CONCORD to cover your own money making schemes  How about getting some players to help you mine in safety?
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20265
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Posted - 2013.09.10 06:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
Hu... but how is there any difference in pulling CONCORD away from miners to safely gank and miners using CONCORD as bodyguards? ...just asking, never done either. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4474
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Posted - 2013.09.10 06:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Spawning concord for protection has been deemed an exploit. Lovely. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1426
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Posted - 2013.09.10 06:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
Alicia Aishai wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:1) Why everything about James 315, said by him or not, has to involve biblic  walls of text? 2) In case this gank happened, James 315 has actually succeeded. One of his objectives is to wake up some miners from their slumber and show them more of the full game. This is what happened. 1 in a 1000 but happened. If he succeeded, then why wasn't he boasting of his success, as he usually does so well. No he was just pissed off and logged out. James315 is just a pathological egomaniac, nothing more. He would feel powerful with his (supposedly) risk free gank strategy, he wants attention on him like a kid. As the op pointed out, he would never accept any duels, even after taunting people into asking a duel. No balls at all. Avoiding real PvP by ganking miners who cannot fight back - that's about all what he can do. James 315 is the most skilled, elite and honourable man in highsec space. As it would be dishonourable for such a skilled pvper to 1v1 and stomp someone who isn't as elite as he, only the most determined or powerful players may challenge him for an honourable duel. |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1426
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:boomerang went on for years.
CCP cant do much in this case as concord is meant to stay on grid for a while. The issues comes when people start throwing ibis into the grinder to keep the concord spawn in place to act as bodyguards. From what I saw, boomerang was declared an exploit and nerfed with the instant-web and 15-minute timer within days of CCP finding out about it?
I'm just a bit miffed that one exploit is ruled against, declared and mechanics implemented immediately to combat it, but another is ruled against, kept quiet and nothing happens
Also, I'm stil not entirely clear on this. Is pulling CONCORD onto grid for protection once an exploit? |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4325
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:05:00 -
[37] - Quote
Alicia Aishai wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:1) Why everything about James 315, said by him or not, has to involve biblic  walls of text? 2) In case this gank happened, James 315 has actually succeeded. One of his objectives is to wake up some miners from their slumber and show them more of the full game. This is what happened. 1 in a 1000 but happened. If he succeeded, then why wasn't he boasting of his success, as he usually does so well. No he was just pissed off and logged out. James315 is just a pathological egomaniac, nothing more. He would feel powerful with his (supposedly) risk free gank strategy, he wants attention on him like a kid. As the op pointed out, he would never accept any duels, even after taunting people into asking a duel. No balls at all. Avoiding real PvP by ganking miners who cannot fight back - that's about all what he can do.
There's no doubt he succeeded.
Basing on his showoffs and talks, the guy managed to gather more than 100 billions from other players.
That's quite a good reward ratio for risking a stabber, isn't it?  Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4474
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:baltec1 wrote:boomerang went on for years.
CCP cant do much in this case as concord is meant to stay on grid for a while. The issues comes when people start throwing ibis into the grinder to keep the concord spawn in place to act as bodyguards. From what I saw, boomerang was declared an exploit and nerfed with the instant-web and 15-minute timer within days of CCP finding out about it? I'm just a bit miffed that one exploit is ruled against, declared and mechanics implemented immediately to combat it, but another is ruled against, kept quiet and nothing happens Also, I'm stil not entirely clear on this. Is pulling CONCORD onto grid for protection once an exploit? Maybe they need to make dragging concord away the exploit
nerf ganking more There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
155
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Also, I'm stil not entirely clear on this. Is pulling CONCORD onto grid for protection once an exploit?
What motivation could a suicide ganker possibly have to convince you that a suicide ganking defense is an exploit? |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
13589
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Also, I'm stil not entirely clear on this. Is pulling CONCORD onto grid for protection once an exploit? What motivation could a suicide ganker possibly have to convince you that a suicide ganking defense is an exploit? What motivation could a suicide ganker possibly have to tell their victims how to protect themselves? Yet they do, on a regular basis, and have done so for some time. I am furnishing this post "as is". I do not provide any warranty for the post whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for a particular purpose or any warranty that the contents of the post will be error-free.
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embrel
BamBam Inc.
51
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:18:00 -
[41] - Quote
People demanding KM and questioning veracity of OP's claim could have just looked for the KM themselves. I did. It exists. So, congratulations. What I don't understand why his stabber has empty high-slots. well, no guns needed for bumping I guess. In other threads gankers are celebrated and here people try to find something. She ganked Jimbo (I'm missing Starkiller's update regarding his PvP experiences with Jimbo) |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
13589
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:22:00 -
[42] - Quote
embrel wrote:People demanding KM and questioning veracity of OP's claim could have just looked for the KM themselves. I did. It exists. So, congratulations. What I don't understand why his stabber has empty high-slots. well, no guns needed for bumping I guess. In other threads gankers are celebrated and here people try to find something. She ganked Jimbo (I'm missing Starkiller's update regarding his PvP experiences with Jimbo) Battleclinic , eve-kill and zKillboard show no losses for James in the last year or so.
I am furnishing this post "as is". I do not provide any warranty for the post whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for a particular purpose or any warranty that the contents of the post will be error-free.
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embrel
BamBam Inc.
51
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:embrel wrote:People demanding KM and questioning veracity of OP's claim could have just looked for the KM themselves. I did. It exists. So, congratulations. What I don't understand why his stabber has empty high-slots. well, no guns needed for bumping I guess. In other threads gankers are celebrated and here people try to find something. She ganked Jimbo (I'm missing Starkiller's update regarding his PvP experiences with Jimbo) Battleclinic  , eve-kill and zKillboard show no losses for James in the last year or so.
ooops, shame on me!
the Killmail exists, but is dated 12/02/11 on battleclinic. my bad. |

baltec1
Bat Country
7926
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 07:25:00 -
[44] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:baltec1 wrote:boomerang went on for years.
CCP cant do much in this case as concord is meant to stay on grid for a while. The issues comes when people start throwing ibis into the grinder to keep the concord spawn in place to act as bodyguards. From what I saw, boomerang was declared an exploit and nerfed with the instant-web and 15-minute timer within days of CCP finding out about it? I'm just a bit miffed that one exploit is ruled against, declared and mechanics implemented immediately to combat it, but another is ruled against, kept quiet and nothing happens Also, I'm stil not entirely clear on this. Is pulling CONCORD onto grid for protection once an exploit?
What did boomerang in was that one guy abused it massively over the span of a few weeks which lead to a huge amount of outraged highsec pubbies flailing on the forums so CCP acted. It had been used since the days of M0o. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
155
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 07:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:S Byerley wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Also, I'm stil not entirely clear on this. Is pulling CONCORD onto grid for protection once an exploit? What motivation could a suicide ganker possibly have to convince you that a suicide ganking defense is an exploit? What motivation could a suicide ganker possibly have to tell their victims how to protect themselves? Yet they do, on a regular basis, and have done so for some time.
Mostly ridicule, also a little bit of indirection. The suggestions are always wildly impractical so it really doesn't hurt any. Pre-spawning Concord, in contrast, is very cost-effective and can be a significant nuisance.
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baltec1
Bat Country
7926
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:28:00 -
[46] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Also, I'm stil not entirely clear on this. Is pulling CONCORD onto grid for protection once an exploit? What motivation could a suicide ganker possibly have to convince you that a suicide ganking defense is an exploit?
Please use this tactic. We enjoy getting clueless miners banned as much ask killing them. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
13591
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 07:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
embrel wrote: ooops, shame on me!
the Killmail exists, but is dated 12/02/11 on battleclinic. my bad.
Not your fault, I read the OP as a recent event, that kill in 2011 is pre minerbumping afaik, it's definitely pre New Order. I am furnishing this post "as is". I do not provide any warranty for the post whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for a particular purpose or any warranty that the contents of the post will be error-free.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
13595
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
S Byerley wrote: Mostly ridicule, also a little bit of misdirection. The suggestions are always wildly impractical so it really doesn't hurt any. Pre-spawning Concord, in contrast, is very cost-effective and can be a significant nuisance.
So telling people how to tank their barges and exhumers, how to use the standings mechanism to highlight people who would do them harm, how to use the overview and to not AFK is ridicule and misdirection? I am furnishing this post "as is". I do not provide any warranty for the post whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for a particular purpose or any warranty that the contents of the post will be error-free.
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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
155
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:S Byerley wrote: Mostly ridicule, also a little bit of misdirection. The suggestions are always wildly impractical so it really doesn't hurt any. Pre-spawning Concord, in contrast, is very cost-effective and can be a significant nuisance.
So telling people how to tank their barges and exhumers, how to use the standings mechanism to highlight people who would do them harm, how to use the overview and to not AFK is ridicule and misdirection?
Repeating wildly known and freely available information while goading someone to sit intently at their screen in highsec while they.... wait - yes, yes it is.
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20276
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 07:42:00 -
[50] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Please use this tactic. We enjoy getting clueless miners banned as much as killing them.
Oh come on baltec, don't say things like that... who would you turn your sociopathic affection (yea, that's a contradiction ) to, if all the "clueless miners" got banned!? "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
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baltec1
Bat Country
7926
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:baltec1 wrote:Please use this tactic. We enjoy getting clueless miners banned as much as killing them. Oh come on baltec, don't say things like that... who would you turn your sociopathic affection (yea, that's a contradiction  ) to, if all the "clueless miners" got banned!?
We have learned there is no end to silly miners. |

baltec1
Bat Country
7926
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Posted - 2013.09.10 08:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:S Byerley wrote: Mostly ridicule, also a little bit of misdirection. The suggestions are always wildly impractical so it really doesn't hurt any. Pre-spawning Concord, in contrast, is very cost-effective and can be a significant nuisance.
So telling people how to tank their barges and exhumers, how to use the standings mechanism to highlight people who would do them harm, how to use the overview and to not AFK is ridicule and misdirection?
Welcome to the high sec way of thinking. Where using an exploit that could get you banned is seen as a better option than fitting a tank in those empty mids. |

Jennam Musana
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.09.10 08:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee." -Some guy with a silly moustache  |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
13602
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Posted - 2013.09.10 08:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:S Byerley wrote: Mostly ridicule, also a little bit of misdirection. The suggestions are always wildly impractical so it really doesn't hurt any. Pre-spawning Concord, in contrast, is very cost-effective and can be a significant nuisance.
So telling people how to tank their barges and exhumers, how to use the standings mechanism to highlight people who would do them harm, how to use the overview and to not AFK is ridicule and misdirection? Repeating wildly known and freely available information while goading someone to sit intently at their screen in highsec while they.... wait - yes, yes it is. Yes it's widely known and freely available information, I never said it wasn't. Yet many people choose to ignore it, and then complain when their pixels explode.
I occasionally gank miners with an alt so I'm aware of how ganking works, and I've taken steps to minimise its impact on my mining character.
I mine in a tanked mining barge, while at the keyboard on an alt. I'm not asking anybody to do anything I'm not prepared to do myself. I am furnishing this post "as is". I do not provide any warranty for the post whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for a particular purpose or any warranty that the contents of the post will be error-free.
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20282
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Posted - 2013.09.10 08:04:00 -
[55] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:We have learned there is no end to silly miners.
As there is no end to risk averse pseudo PvPers that like to exploit them to give them self a questionable ego boost... so all's well.  "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
155
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Posted - 2013.09.10 08:11:00 -
[56] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:S Byerley wrote: Mostly ridicule, also a little bit of misdirection. The suggestions are always wildly impractical so it really doesn't hurt any. Pre-spawning Concord, in contrast, is very cost-effective and can be a significant nuisance.
So telling people how to tank their barges and exhumers, how to use the standings mechanism to highlight people who would do them harm, how to use the overview and to not AFK is ridicule and misdirection? Welcome to the high sec way of thinking. Where using an exploit that could get you banned is seen as a better option than fitting a tank in those empty mids.
How many people have you run into pre-spawning Concord but not tanking their ship?
This discussion is thoroughly ********; lest it be buried -
CCP Atropos wrote:How does my reply differ from that you quoted? The reasoning is that you're deliberately using free ships (noob frigates) and alts to bypass the risk and penalties incurred by angering CONCORD. The incurred penalties are ignored since there's no financial loss, and no meaningful security loss, since you would delete the character afterwards. Of course, if you're willing to live with these penalties, and don't delete the offending character, then there's no problem, since it is working as intended (you lose your ship, become criminally flagged, and incur a security hit). Although no one will really like you since you're spawning CONCORD to cover your own money making schemes  How about getting some players to help you mine in safety?
ie baltec is full of **** and can't support his claim whereas comments from CCP employees indicate that the activity is fine provided you don't delete characters. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
13612
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Posted - 2013.09.10 08:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'll just point out the differences between the thread in the old forums, and the Eve search archive of the very same thread where the pre-spawning of Concord was discussed.
Please note the posts edited by mods for discussing an exploit, in particular the very first post. I am furnishing this post "as is". I do not provide any warranty for the post whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for a particular purpose or any warranty that the contents of the post will be error-free.
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baltec1
Bat Country
7926
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Posted - 2013.09.10 08:35:00 -
[58] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:
How many people have you run into pre-spawning Concord but not tanking their ship?
All of them so far.
S Byerley wrote: ie baltec is full of **** and can't support his claim whereas comments from CCP employees indicate that the activity is fine provided you don't delete characters.
Lets see that quote in its context.
Because we have been told that it is a bannable offence and we have reported people for it who have been given warnings and bans. |

Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
20291
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 08:53:00 -
[59] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Welcome to the high sec way of thinking. Where using an exploit that could get you banned is seen as a better option than fitting a tank in those empty mids.
Nice generalization there... "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
13619
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 08:57:00 -
[60] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:baltec1 wrote:Welcome to the high sec way of thinking. Where using an exploit that could get you banned is seen as a better option than fitting a tank in those empty mids. Nice generalization there... He has a point though Shalua, miners who fit a non cursory tank are few and far between. It's only the minority that fit more than a civilian/ small shield booster; most won't even fit a damage control, even though it can add around 30% to their EHP, because it uses a slot that can be used for an MLU. I am furnishing this post "as is". I do not provide any warranty for the post whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for a particular purpose or any warranty that the contents of the post will be error-free.
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