And? Arnon is already on that list of off limits zones. Unless they're going to set all 20+ systems in that area off limits, it doesn't matter, nor should it.



Yeah, you know, if I actually like the harsh universe they lauded in all their advertising and stuff, I should just quit.

Oh, here's another thing.

I habitually put up lowball buy orders for a lot of the Sisters of EVE loot drops in and around Arnon. I guess I should be banned for, and I quote:



Because screw people who are properly prepared and do their homework, right?

[Edit:

That kind of crap is why people are pissed off about this broad brush rewording. Because stuff that people have been doing for years with a thumbs up from CCP could reasonably be argued is now bannable. Banning someone for "taking advantage" of people doing that arc (with lowball buy orders) is easily within the wording of that statement.

And that's the problem I have with it right there. The entire thing is one huge "moving the goal posts".

Thank you for this post and the links.
When I started reading this thread, that old discussion immediately came to my mind.

Maybe the rules are sometimes vague but in this case they are crystal clear. Nothing changed at all.

Obviously you didn't bother checking the links I included and decided to cherry pick one little specific phrase out of my reply.

I read them, but they added nothing to your point. In fact, they added credibility to anyone who would care to claim this is the latest in another set of nerfs to add more safety to highsec.

Like, you know, me. But if you'd actually like to have the debate, instead of just bemoaning "this topic again!?", then I'd be happy to discuss this with you.

GM Homonoia wrote:
Tl;dr We are extending our rookie griefing rules to the system of Arnon.

See our wiki page on this subject: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems

History lesson
A long long time ago in a galaxy right here in the EVE universe we had a lot of new players who undocked for the very first time and were trying to figure out how to fly their ships. There was also a small group of players that wanted to pad their kill mails in the easiest way possible by preying upon those people who had not yet found the trigger to their civilian guns. This last group moved into the rookie starter systems and started killing our new recruits. This is not cool and so us game masters decided that messing with these newest and most helpless players was not allowed. A ban was put into place for griefing rookies in their starter systems.

Of course, these predators decided that rules should be followed to the letter and the spirit behind these rules can be ignored at will and moved to the career agent systems to do the exact same thing. Unfortunately this forced us to extend the ban on griefing rookies to these systems as well.

Present day
Now these scavengers of corpses have moved to the Sisters of EVE epic arc systems to do the exact same thing once again. This is forcing us to extend this ban to the Arnon system as well. Let me state very clearly that we do so with great reluctance. We do NOT like to impose rules and limitations like these upon the sandbox and we do not do so lightly. These measures are always debated hotly within our department and can often take multiple months of deliberation to make absolutely sure we are doing the right thing.

Let me state this very clearly here. We do NOT want experienced players to mess with rookies barely a week in. We are sure that you have worthier targets than these players who are still learning the ropes. If this behavior does not stop we may extend this rule to all systems that are covered in the Sisters of EVE epic arc. These systems are:

- Tar
- Harerget
- Hatakani
- Hek
- Lustrevik
- Tanoo
- Lisudeh
- Sosh
- Manarq
- Chainelant

Senior GM Homonoia | Info Group | Senior Game Master

to me this as well as the TOS rewording seem like the work of a new attorney who's counseling CCP. One who doesn't know much about the actual game. Of course it's not okay to grief newbs, most of us get that.
However, to have terms that are vague at best is not the way to go with Eve. I know that lawyers sometimes like vague clauses as they provide the freedom for interpretation. This does not work in a game where half the content is about "criminal activities". Here you simply need to know precisely what's ok and what's not.
The system rule with noobs was precise. It's no longer precise now.
Also, dear CCP, the vagueness of clauses can be used against you. Ok, possibly no one will sue you if they feel you violated the TOS, but basically you're bound too by the TOS. So you at least should know what they actually say.

GM Homonoia wrote:
Some rules are vague on purpose and they will remain vague. This is the 'reckless driving' equivalent. If I define the rules to the last dot someone will simply find a loop hole and use it. The rule is "do not mess with rookies", and if you are in doubt the answer is ALWAYS 'do not do it'.

Senior GM Homonoia | Info Group | Senior Game Master

I highly doubt you read those links. Those links basically contained about 52 pages of posted replies with 20 replies per page. Within those pages are multiple GM and Dev responses pertaining to issues which are now being brought up in this thread.

So long as the GM decides you are using unfairly deceptive or overwhelming ways to abuse new players just for kicks. Repeatedly suicide ganking a month-old character inside his level 1 missions will get you in trouble. Killing a two day old newb running around lowsec in a cruiser is fine. It's up to the GM ultimately.

Why not go pick on someone who's already hooked onto Eve and has some chance to at least know what's going on? Not only is it more sporting and fair than sucker-punching people who don't even know how to align to empty space, but you'd also not be hurting Eve as a game and community by giving newcomers a chance to adapt.

Yes, the rules are subjective. But if you're concerned about a GM getting involved, then the GM should probably be involved. In other words, HTFU, GTFO, or a GM will make you.

And people tell me that it's too complicated, too much math, takes too long to get good at it, etc.