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Sticky:A question: What do you wish you had known?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Bill Trent The New Eden School of trade 2	Posted - 2013.09.13 11:58:00 - [31] - Quote I'd like to echo the sentiment that the tutorial is just bad. There's tons of essential knowledge you have to look up in out of game sources, and as parts of the game get overhauled and hence external videos/wikis etc don't match up with the actual game, things get hard. The entire PvP part of Eve isn't explained anywhere to a new player, let alone that they will start in highsec where this is complicated by crimewatch. For many starting players, how to make money is an issue, and due to how earning at low levels work many conclude mining is most profitable and start off in a direction they will later regret.

CCP Eterne C C P C C P Alliance 2803	Posted - 2013.09.13 12:00:00 - [32] - Quote I've deleted a few more posts. In this thread, we are concerned about things that confused or were difficult for you as a new player. None of the information we are attempting to collect here is to be used to affect any sort of change to the game or the Terms of Service, but is rather part of a Community Team initiative that will hopefully help provide answers to these questions to new players. EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept @CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents

Beaver Retriever Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 109	Posted - 2013.09.13 12:02:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Gargant wrote: The reason I am removing these posts as off topic is because they are. We are looking for valid advice about game features for rookies and newcomers. I understand completely that actions taken by the various departments in CCP can fuel anger and frustration, but there are other threads and venues in which you can express that anger. Derailing a newbie-advice thread with your opinions on what has been going on is exactly that. That is why I am removing these posts. I feel that there's nothing more important for newbies to know than what your GMs are doing, because they attempt to obfuscate their actions in massive posts filled with legalese and doublespeak.
space chikun Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 96	Posted - 2013.09.13 12:07:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Eterne wrote: I've deleted a few more posts. In this thread, we are concerned about things that confused or were difficult for you as a new player. None of the information we are attempting to collect here is to be used to affect any sort of change to the game or the Terms of Service, but is rather part of a Community Team initiative that will hopefully help provide answers to these questions to new players. I understand, which is why I edited my last post before you deleted it. I do think it's a valid newbie concern. However, I'll just keep my mouth shut. As an aside, newbies, CCP makes mistakes, we all do. Some of us are very angry at them right now, and some day you will be very angry too. Just realize, when two people love each other, they'll hurt each other, and eventually you'll realize that it doesn't matter, still had fun.
Joyfie Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 4	Posted - 2013.09.13 12:11:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Eterne wrote: I've deleted a few more posts. In this thread, we are concerned about things that confused or were difficult for you as a new player. None of the information we are attempting to collect here is to be used to affect any sort of change to the game or the Terms of Service, but is rather part of a Community Team initiative that will hopefully help provide answers to these questions to new players. Well, whatever. Please don't discount my other input based on other posts that you deem to be off-topic. I don't think any of us are 'angry' - but censoring posts that the player base feels are on topic is really bad PR when trying to appeal to new players. Regardless, there are some good suggestions in this thread. I'm glad that the time has come to revamp the tutorial / give more information to newbros. Helping the community help new players as well should be on the top of the list.

CCP Eterne C C P C C P Alliance 2803	Posted - 2013.09.13 12:48:00 - [36] - Quote Thank you guys for being reasonable. We do have threads dedicated to the topic of the Terms of Service. Trust me when I say that discussions continue every day in regards to them. We're certainly not discounting your suggestions when it comes to the topic of the thread. EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept @CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents

Rena Senn Resurrection Ventures Un.Bound 65	Posted - 2013.09.13 13:04:00 - [37] - Quote How to invert the scroll wheel zoom direction and only that direction, without inverting any other controls such as menu scrolling or inverting the whole mouse. The answer turned out to be "you can't," but it took me a damn long time and a lot of control panel frustration before realizing that fact. How to turn off the tutorial once and for all without it ever popping up or blinking at me ever again for that character. I don't think I ever did solve that one pre-odyssey besides clicking through everything every time I made a new character since at the time turning off the tutorial seemed to do nothing. Also how to export settings and shortcuts and carry it over from account to account. Again can't be done using only in-game methods, and again not obvious since the game does have very functional exporting abilities elsewhere. A lot of my early frustrations at the lack of this or that feature was compounded by the fact that said lacks were not obviously documented or searchable in any way. When you're just starting out and are unfamiliar with the limitations of functionality in such a complex game, trying to separate what can't be done with what you don't know how to do can be an enduring and aggravating chore.
Daenna Chrysi Omega Foundry Unit Shadows Of Betrayal 65	Posted - 2013.09.13 13:32:00 - [38] - Quote I would say the overview
Alpheias Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse 2646	Posted - 2013.09.13 13:46:00 - [39] - Quote Everything? :p Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on.
Derek Itinen Critical Mass Inc. Nexus Fleet 5	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:00:00 - [40] - Quote I would have liked to have known that mono tanking a ship was best. My first mission running ship as fit as follows: http://imgur.com/svTSjF2 Three shield boosters and an armor rep. I guess this comes down to that I wish there was some tutorial towards fitting ships.

ShadowandLight Black Aces Against ALL Authorities 181	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:02:00 - [41] - Quote - Tracking mechanics are extremely complicated. I dont advocate making the mechanic simpler, but maybe adding some kind of intuitive system that shows how your tracking the current target. Red = Bad, Yellow = Ok , Green = Good. EveServers.info - Fully configured web server for your corp / alliance TS3 / Mumble / Jabber / SMF Forums + Temar's Mod / CMS Website / ECM / EVEWSpace https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=266284
Manssell OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate 189	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:13:00 - [42] - Quote Basic fitting philosophy! I Played for way too long dual tanked and with one of every type and size of gun on my ship. I went back and did a few of the tutorials this spring and at least a few of them actually seems to encourage noobs into dual tanking. If I remember correctly you get an armor plate to run one of the tutorials, then the reward is a shield repper. This ends up being the only two things you own that you can fit after the mission and there is space on the ship for both of them so why wouldn't a noobie put both on the ship. It's just bad, bad to teach them this.
Sir Jack Falstaff The Not So Jolly Rogers Academy 23	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:17:00 - [43] - Quote As a relatively new player (about 2 months), my experience is still pretty fresh, so I'll give it a go. I think the tutorials are pretty good, actually. Of course the tutorials are lacking a lot, but that's just because if they were designed to teach you everything you needed to know, I'd still be playing them. I second the calls for d-scan and overview to be added to tutorials in some way, although I think the problem with overview goes beyond tutorials. It's a terrible UI that needs to be fixed. That's the only thing making it complicated. I might suggest another tier of career missions, similar to military. Like advanced industry, advanced exploration, etc. Also, invention & research is missing from the tutorial completely. (Honestly, I still have no idea how research and invention works, so there's something for you) Maybe that could be part of advanced industry, I don't know. So, what didn't I know at the outset? 1. How things like aggression timers, outlaw/suspect mechanics work and what they mean 2. Research and invention. (Still unclear) 3. That asteroid belts deplete. Seriously, if you go to a rookie system and try to mine, there's usually nothing left. At all. I thought at first that the asteroid belts must be enormous with vast distances between the rocks, so I went with my little Venture and tried to sort of manually fly around and see if I could find anything. Also, since I didn't know about overview, I didn't realize I could set it up to look for asteroids, etc. So I was flying around randomly, manually swirling my camera around to look for asteroids that weren't there. Also, I didn't realize that everything was gone because it had been completely used up. But all in all, the tutorials give you a pretty good sense of the basics. They did for me anyway. And yes, you need to read stuff on the internet. I don't think that's necessarily a problem though. You don't want to have a tutorial that lasts a month, after all. At some point, you just want to get out and start playing, even if you barely know anything. But for sweet Jack Falstaff, kind Jack Falstaff, true Jack Falstaff, valiant Jack Falstaff, and therefore more valiant, being, as he is, old Jack Falstaff, banish not him thy Harry's company, banish not him thy Harry's company: banish plump Jack, and banish all the world.
Gerrard Durron Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 0	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:33:00 - [44] - Quote I have to echo the sentiment of others here in that it was quite some time before I figured out the tracking/explosion radius mechanics, and there is not much of an indication in game for newer, or even some less new players. It took me weeks to figure out how to manually fly and align with a clicked point in space as opposed to using things on the overview. =/
Remi Khashour Spawn More Overlords Contrapuntal Alliance 0	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:44:00 - [45] - Quote Turret Tracking Seriously, we need a video to visualize this. It's been a problem forever. Stacking Penalty 7 Heatsinks isn't much better than 4. Really need some better indication that those mods aren't giving you their full effect. What modules can affect what on your ship. I see all those attributes, but I didn't know what I could do to affect them. If I wanted more capacitor, after much digging through the market I found the Power Diagnostic, but what I really wanted was the capacitor battery. There's a lot of ** in Eve, new players really need help finding out what they need. That bigger isn't better** Common problem is that players see more damage and more hitpoints and immediately think that every cruiser is better than every frigate. This may tie into the Turret Tracking concept, but the differences need to be made apparent.
Gerrard Durron Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 0	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:48:00 - [46] - Quote Remi Khashour wrote: Turret Tracking Seriously, we need a video to visualize this. It's been a problem forever. Stacking Penalty 7 Heatsinks isn't much better than 4. Really need some better indication that those mods aren't giving you their full effect. What modules can affect what on your ship. I see all those attributes, but I didn't know what I could do to affect them. If I wanted more capacitor, after much digging through the market I found the Power Diagnostic, but what I really wanted was the capacitor battery. There's a lot of ** in Eve, new players really need help finding out what they need. That bigger isn't better** Common problem is that players see more damage and more hitpoints and immediately think that every cruiser is better than every frigate. This may tie into the Turret Tracking concept, but the differences need to be made apparent. The stacking penalty as well. That one wasn't as much a problem for me because I DO tend to do a lot of research on games I'm playing, but it is a good point. As to bigger isn't better, I feel that point would likely be best made with improved tracking/missile information. =)
Remi Khashour Spawn More Overlords Contrapuntal Alliance 1	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:53:00 - [47] - Quote Gerrard Durron wrote: As to bigger isn't better, I feel that point would likely be best made with improved tracking/missile information. =) I think I agree with that, it depends on how good the material is. I would personally like some kind of tutorial where they keep giving you a small ship and if you get it blown up by the single battleship spawn then it gets replaced after a few hours if you didn't complete it. I know there's a chance for exploitation if you keep selling the frig, but I'm sure there could be something worked out so that it's not really worth it.
Gerrard Durron Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 1	Posted - 2013.09.13 15:01:00 - [48] - Quote That could be neat. I do like how it shows that you are MORE durable in something tiny vs. big guns if you're moving. Personally, I think I would more prefer something that also showcases the way it works for your own guns, for example making you try to catch an orbiting drone both with and without a web or something, along with an explanation of the tracking mechanics, or a UI update or something. I'm not a game dev, amateur or otherwise, just tossing the requested .02 ISK out there.
Bagrat Skalski Poseidaon 270	Posted - 2013.09.13 15:33:00 - [49] - Quote First thing I wish I had known? The importance of turret mechanics in this game. I mean broader look. WIth videos and schematics. New CQ prototype
James Akachi Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.09.13 15:56:00 - [50] - Quote - That the overview could be changed, and it's still annoying to change it in any way. Overview settings needs a complete redo. - Everything related to research/invention -- and what are those civilian data cores you get in the Business tutorial for anyway? - Backwards mouse wheel zoom and how you are still basically stuck with it. - What on-grid means and how it works. - Where to find epic mission arcs and how you can re-run them. Not that it matters for new players since the empire ones are level 4, but I had to google around to find out there was really not much interesting content of this nature in the game (reason I left two years ago). - How planetary interaction works -- again, had to google to understand this. - That you can be war-decced at any time if you join a player corp. - That while you can buy and sell several stations or systems away, the physical item still must be in the station where the transaction occurs. Same for other remotely accessible mechanics like Manufacturing.

tofucake prime AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 85	Posted - 2013.09.13 16:09:00 - [51] - Quote I wish I had known who came up with that ridiculous "you are not allowed to impersonate anyone, even yourself" rule.
Reyna Snoo Chop-Shop Mining and Logistics 0	Posted - 2013.09.13 16:14:00 - [52] - Quote As someone who tends to try to answer my own questions with google, it would have been very helpful to know that much information out there (even some on the wiki) is out of date due to the frequent expansion/update schedule. Also a minor point, in the exploration career missions I had no idea that relic sites (7 of 10 I think) used the exact same mechanic as hacking. I was not prepared to look for the ejected mini-can and ended up needing my mission reset.
Wired Joker Meet the Quota co. 0	Posted - 2013.09.13 16:16:00 - [53] - Quote Scanning. I only recently started playing eve (picked it up during the steam summer sale). In the tutorial missions, aside from the first one where you find the ship in space and get in it, the only thing I was confused about was scanning. Everything about it was confusing as a new player. My first struggle was launching the probes. I kept launching the probes and thinking they had been lost and that I hadn't gotten a scanning window when doing it. I ended up buying 3 or 4 sets of core scanner probes before I had finally figured it out. The next part was getting the probe scanner open. This part is very unclear and not really touched on in the tutorial. It's also so simple that searching for a solution on google wasn't really an option. Basically, the buttons and tutorial don't make it obvious how to bring up the d-scan/probe scan window. Which brings me to directional scanning. I feel like a lot of the tutorial missions if you actually read them explain what's going on. The second mission in which you lose your ship basically explains what a bait is, for instance. No mission covers the importance of d-scan, mostly because rats don't show up on it. My suggestion for a d-scan tutorial would simply be to modify the warp disruption mission. When you warp in, the pirate warps out. You then must use your long range d-scan at a 30 degree angle to find where he warped to. This teaches you about the tracking camera, d-scan's maximum range, and d-scan's angle feature. Once you get to the acceleration gate the pirate warps to, he uses it. The d-scan then teaches you how to do a short range scan to confirm the pirate is in the room as you expect. Once this is done, you can access the acceleration gate and go in to warp disrupt him, completing the mission. Basically, the mission could mimic a fw plexer... The starter missions to a good job showing how the various tools available work. "Here's what probes do, here's what a salvager does, here's what you do when your ship esplodes". The starter missions don't show you what to do with that info. Just a little more depth to them could go a long way. They teach you about warp diruptors and webs and how to use them, but not why you use them. The missions involving each module are basically "fit this, and go use it" but they never explain why.
Tibo Paralian Dirt 'n' Glitter Imperial Outlaws. 6	Posted - 2013.09.13 16:24:00 - [54] - Quote First of all, I realize this game is huge so integrating all details of what is possible is an immense task. Dependency of community tools and websites. From looking up how to properly fit a ship or taking on PI/Industry, out of game tools and websites are required to be more efficient at a given task or learn more about the game. We've all seen that "What to do in EVE" image. From my experience playing (~3 months), looking up a fit for a ship involved checking kill-mail websites and importing them into EFT/Pyfa to check whether I have enough CPU/PG and to downgrade/upgrade meta levels to accommodate. Remaps, attributes and sp/hour. Now that I know what I want to do and accomplish, I wish someone would have told me to save my remaps. Every time I check EVEMon I get depressed at the sp/hour I'm getting. Now I know that SP is not everything and patience is a virtue, but I like to min/max, not to mention solo warfare is not so kind. Other I was also confused about clones, I did not know that the station you left the clone at did not need to be at a standing of 8 to jump back to it. Does that wording make sense? The "EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources" Thread should be a sticky in the launcher 24/7.
Lair Osen Unlawful Unit 29	Posted - 2013.09.13 16:24:00 - [55] - Quote Big Ships are pretty terrible at killing Small ships
Kel hound Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking 50	Posted - 2013.09.13 16:27:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Gargant wrote: Greetings new citizens! We in the Community team have a question we would like your input on. When you started EVE Online for the first time, what about the game confused you the most? Is there some mechanic or feature, or even just normal game-play, that you wish someone could have pointed out to you right from the get-go? A word of experience you would impart to an even newer member of the EVE Online family? I wish I had spent more time in frigates and more time doing some sort of PvP with frigates. For reals, its only now that I fly larger, more expensive ships that I really appreciate just how useful frigates are. I wish I had learned PvP lessons in frigates rather than in more expensive ships. It probably wouldn't have saved me any heartache or silly/stupid losses, but I would at least feel more comfortable in what I was doing. Instead I viewed the ship tree as a kind of progression tree and looking back I really do feel like that was a mistake.
Kyttn Forging Industries Silent Infinity 0	Posted - 2013.09.13 16:34:00 - [57] - Quote By far the most important thing I would have wanted to know was more about the character creation area. Once you're in the game later you can learn that it doesn't really matter what race you pick or even what your character looks like (since you can always redesign it or remap your skills or whatever) but in the beginning you're forced to make these decisions without any ability to research them or know what their repercussions are. Example: the one thing you can never, EVER change is your character name, so be SURE that it's the one you want. Also, to be extremely wary about scammers and gankers. More info should be posted that these are considered legal forms of gameplay, and give tutorials and examples of tactics used by each. It's all too easy for a newb to think an ad posted in Jita must have to be real if it's allowed to be posted (and you don't know any better). And I can remember my first time mining when I got provoked by a can flipper and tried to fight back and was blown up, or being killed by station guns after I attacked somebody for just locking me up and not knowing anything about aggression or criminal flagging. You always hear "fly safe" and "don't fly anything you can't afford to lose", but how often does CCP tell you "trust no one". Make it a little more obvious that there's no way (yet) to really do anything with your full character, or to be able to fly your ship first-person style. It took me forever before I realized there was no way to change the camera angle to inside the ship. Finally, include many, many more warning boxes (suppressible of course) at any step where someone could do something stupid. New players may not realize just how strict CCP is on reimbursement policies regarding legitimate gameplay mechanics, and that there are no "take-backsies" when you screw up - even if you're new. Warn new players better and more frequently that their actions are often irreversible.
Lychton Kondur Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 1	Posted - 2013.09.13 16:34:00 - [58] - Quote There should be a tutorial mission where you basically "steal" loot and activate a suspect timer. I vividly remember falling for cans labeled "Amarr Ammo Resupply Outpost" at a measly 27k away. If I had known what suspect offenses were, I would have blown up 5 ships in a different way. Also, ship modules, meta levels, and how to use the compare feature. The sheer volume of modules available is overwhelming, and I had no clue how to fit a ship to save my life. While I'm at it, I also didn't understand how to find racially comparable mods, like gyrostabilizers to heat sinks.
Lin Gerie Bareback Pornstars Carthage Empires 31	Posted - 2013.09.13 16:47:00 - [59] - Quote The mechanic changes between HS, LS, Null and WH space. Getting trapped in a warp bubble while warping around with new corp mates through null to get to owned space and losing a cruiser you probably shouldn't have been flying three weeks into a trial really sucks for new players.
Sagiv Kor Brimstone Tactical Covert Intervention 0	Posted - 2013.09.13 17:12:00 - [60] - Quote What I've seen is a lot of new players don't' know how to properly fit their ship. The most common mistake I see are players tanking their ship with both shield and armor modules, in some cases they're using active modules for both. Another other error I see quite often are players using a mix of both short and long range weapons as well as a mix of weapon types.



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