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Memory Leak issues?? Possible fix here!!

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Guillight BLue	Posted - 2006.01.12 00:48:00 - [1] Hi Everyone, When I read several topics I see memory leak issues come by on regular basis?? Last year some MMO's I played like EverQuest2 and Matrix Online were suffering memory leak issues wich the Dev's weren't able to fix soon! After a while a guy came up with a possible fix :) It seemed that Microsoft .NET framework version 1.0 and 1.1 had garbage collection issues wich caused memory leaking (garbage collection is dumping used code that's not needed anymore to clear up memory space). That summer Microsoft released a beta version of .NET framework 2.0 wich solved those garbage collection issues! After installing .NET framework version 2.0 the memory leaks were solved! :) So you see..I'm running version 2.0 and monitored EVE.exe on his memory behaviour and it is nice and steady with me! No memory leak issue at all?? At this moment the final version .NET framework version 2.0 is available for download at: http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com >>Remember that you need a legal copy of Windows XP Professional (or home edition) to be able to download software / driver updates! Microsoft tightend their security and illegal copies can only download security updates! (I had to buy a legal copy myself last summer ) Hope it helps! Good luck! -------------- Guillight BLue [L F C] <IFC>
Geiran Thorne	Posted - 2006.01.12 14:20:00 - [2] Nice theory, but unfortunately it doesn't hold water. The .NET runtime system only affects .NET applications and has no impact on anything else in the system. The reason your examination of the memory usage seems to indicate there is an effect is because the leaky parts in the graphics system of the game are cleaned up as soon as you switch away from it to the application you're monitoring it with. I suppose it's a Schr÷dingbug to a certain extent; a bug that disappears or changes its behavior as soon as you try to examine it.
Guillight BLue	Posted - 2006.01.12 15:31:00 - [3] Originally by: Geiran Thorne Nice theory, but unfortunately it doesn't hold water. The .NET runtime system only affects .NET applications and has no impact on anything else in the system. The reason your examination of the memory usage seems to indicate there is an effect is because the leaky parts in the graphics system of the game are cleaned up as soon as you switch away from it to the application you're monitoring it with. I suppose it's a Schr÷dingbug to a certain extent; a bug that disappears or changes its behavior as soon as you try to examine it. That's not true! I had a monitor running on the background while playing eve for several hours! I work in the ICT myself and know how to monitor memory / CPU behaviour ;-) And yes you're right, the framework only affects .NET applications. Don't know if EVE client is a .NET application (or has been ported to it yet??). I know EQ2 and MxO are. But as EVE Online has been launched in 2003 and the first version of Visual Studio .NET goes back to the end of 1999 - early 2000 I may hope it is! greetings -------------- Guillight BLue [L F C] <IFC>
Enory	Posted - 2006.01.12 22:11:00 - [4] Edited by: Enory on 12/01/2006 22:12:53 Eve is written in Stackless Python, not in a .NET language like C# or VB.NET. See the FAQ, section 7.4.
Guillight BLue	Posted - 2006.01.12 22:33:00 - [5] Im just reading it ...hmmmm Weird that some have memory leak issues and some like me don't?? Guess they have something running on the background then that's eating up memory?? -------------- Guillight BLue [L F C] <IFC>
Alando Kes	Posted - 2006.01.13 16:27:00 - [6] Edited by: Alando Kes on 13/01/2006 16:27:31 I tried your solution and it actually works. I had .NET Framework 1.1 on my Computer. I installed version 2.0 and my insanly long loading times are reduced to 30 seconds maximum.
cstray	Posted - 2006.01.13 20:17:00 - [7] I'm not good with the inticacies of computers, but it appears that your solution has resolved my constant ctd of eve. Thanks very much. Cstray
Pyotr Veliky	Posted - 2006.01.14 03:36:00 - [8] Let me weigh in as another person who has tried this. The memory leak was so bad that I had to kill the Eve process about every 10 minutes. I was running 1.1, but I upgraded to .Net 2.0 today. Since then, I have not had the game freeze up seriously once. I think that this ought to be a recommendation to everyone who uses Eve. Nobody should be running .Net 1.1 who wants to play the game.
Guillight BLue	Posted - 2006.01.14 03:46:00 - [9] I'm happy to hear that it after all still is the solution for the memory leak issue :) I'm guessing that the EVE Server side Software is written in Python and the EVE client written in .NET in combination with Python! But that's something only the Devs can answer? I think it's pretty much clear that the .NET framework does have a great deal influence on the memory use / handling of the EVE client software like it had on EQ2 and MxO client last year! -------------- Guillight BLue [L F C] <IFC>
Starfury Shang	Posted - 2006.01.14 11:09:00 - [10] Anyone running Windows XP64 like myself will most likely have .Net framework 2.0 installed and I know I am having no memory leak problems....
Scorpyn	Posted - 2006.01.14 12:59:00 - [11] I don't think EVE is using .NET, but the catalyst (ati) drivers do.
Guillight BLue	Posted - 2006.01.14 16:03:00 - [12] That would explain partialy the CTD-issues some have with Ati Cards. But we are talking also about the regular memory filling up by the EVE client itself! That's something that to my knowledge graphic drivers haven't any influence on? I myself have for over a year an GeForce6800GT ...but I haven't got any confirmation that people with NVidia cards have same issues?? -------------- Guillight BLue [L F C] <IFC>
Peter Armstrong	Posted - 2006.01.14 20:19:00 - [13] sadly it hasnt sorted my computer out. It made it worse than anything tho Dark Skyes Website Under Construct
Pyotr Veliky	Posted - 2006.01.14 20:42:00 - [14] I have to admit that I spoke too soon. I think that the upgrade did improve the leak on my system somewhat, but it is definitely still there. I was just hulled by a serpentis NPC because of it. Luckily, I had the sense to keep the ship maximally insured and the cargohold as empty as possible. I simply can't trust the client to allow me to get through a combat mission. I hope that they get this leak fixed some day.
Guillight BLue	Posted - 2006.01.14 21:20:00 - [15] Originally by: Peter Armstrong sadly it hasnt sorted my computer out. It made it worse than anything tho What operating system are you exactly running? and what are your system specs? -------------- Guillight BLue [L F C] <IFC>
Peter Armstrong	Posted - 2006.01.14 22:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Guillight BLue Originally by: Peter Armstrong sadly it hasnt sorted my computer out. It made it worse than anything tho What operating system are you exactly running? and what are your system specs? XP home 2.6 Athlon? 1 gig memory 128mb card. Its normaly 180 to 220 but its over 300k now. Since i installed the 2.0 it made it even worse now and shots upto 400k in 20mins that before it takes 4-5 hours. Dark Skyes Website Under Construct
Donatien de'Sade	Posted - 2006.01.15 10:20:00 - [17] Updating to version 2.0 seems (cross fingers) to have solved all my memory and lag related problems...i was getting lag spikes every 20-30 seconds and it would get worse and worse, almost becoming a slide show....just back to normal lag now (which is not too bad), heh....
Calleb	Posted - 2006.01.15 11:01:00 - [18] I have installed .net 2.0 about 3 or 4 weeks ago. Now i have not noticed memory leaks ever on eve, but what has happend is it has cleared up a few niggling problems (things like slow access to some software, and some glyph problems) with my ATI X800XL gfx and the associated catalyst driver. Maybe this has something to do with it as i know that the catalyst driver needs .net installed. Dunno really as i am not a PC boffin in any way
Guillight BLue	Posted - 2006.01.15 14:07:00 - [19] Originally by: Peter Armstrong Originally by: Guillight BLue Originally by: Peter Armstrong sadly it hasnt sorted my computer out. It made it worse than anything tho What operating system are you exactly running? and what are your system specs? XP home 2.6 Athlon? 1 gig memory 128mb card. Its normaly 180 to 220 but its over 300k now. Since i installed the 2.0 it made it even worse now and shots upto 400k in 20mins that before it takes 4-5 hours. I don't know what you exactly mean with the 180,220k thing ...and that it is now up to 400k in 20mins?? what? If its memory fluctuation ...then 400k is nothing?? -------------- Guillight BLue [L F C] <IFC>
Peter Armstrong	Posted - 2006.01.15 16:49:00 - [20] Originally by: Guillight BLue Originally by: Peter Armstrong Originally by: Guillight BLue Originally by: Peter Armstrong sadly it hasnt sorted my computer out. It made it worse than anything tho What operating system are you exactly running? and what are your system specs? XP home 2.6 Athlon? 1 gig memory 128mb card. Its normaly 180 to 220 but its over 300k now. Since i installed the 2.0 it made it even worse now and shots upto 400k in 20mins that before it takes 4-5 hours. I don't know what you exactly mean with the 180,220k thing ...and that it is now up to 400k in 20mins?? what? If its memory fluctuation ...then 400k is nothing?? not really. I mean 200 to 250k is the norm. So now when i do lvl 3 mission and lots of fighing it goees up to 600k. Its shouldnt be doing it. Ever since i put 2.0 its made 3 times worse than before. So now i have trouble doing pvp and missions now. Oh well i tryed and i gess i have to mine veld untill CCP gets it fixed. Oh and want it done by end of month because it be REAL silly to take that long! Dark Skyes Website Under Construct
Edu Journeyman	Posted - 2006.01.15 17:38:00 - [21] I'm having hard issues with memory leaks. I've tried installing NET Framework 2.0 and the problem still. The game start with 152.000K memory usage and, even if I stay at station, it keeps growing, and growing, reaching 200.000K in about 10 minutes (doing nothing, even touch the mouse), if I UNDOCK and do some jumps, it goes up to 400.000K pretty quickly and after that, the screen starts to freeze and A LOT of HD activity is showed. I don't think 400.000K is normal use because the game states 256 MB RAM as the recomended system requirements. I'm using: AMD 2000+ ~1.7 GHz MB Asus A7A266 512 MB RAM GeForce 5500 256 MB SoudBlaster Ensonic PCI Windows XP Pro SP2 PS: I play a lot of others games in this machine and never got this issues (I know it isn't a great computer, but it comes on handy every task I do, and play too, except EVE online). Thanks in advance for any help.
Enory	Posted - 2006.01.15 19:25:00 - [22] To clear things up, EVE is NOT written in .NET, not even the client. Both the client and the server are written in Stackless Python, as the FAQ explains. If installing the .NET Framework 2.0 solves issues, then these issues are caused by something else that uses the .NET Framework.
Guillight BLue	Posted - 2006.01.15 20:05:00 - [23] Peter Armstrong? You talking about Mission ISK payouts here?? if so ..then upgrading to .NET framework 2.0 has absolutely nothing to do with it lol. That's something handled server side ..not on the client! -------------- Guillight BLue [L F C] <IFC>
Gregory Robson	Posted - 2006.01.15 20:23:00 - [24] Originally by: Edu Journeyman Edited by: Edu Journeyman on 15/01/2006 17:49:44 Other PS: EDITED - The only thing that do some change in the memory usage of eve.exe in the Task Manager is playing windowed, minimizing it and maximizing again - the memory drops down to 20.000~35.000K and start growing again... This only makes things worse. Memory is not really freed, just process is swapped to disk. After you maximize it again, it has to be read from disk, which takes time. Don't trust task manager. If anything, then probably vm size of the process (which you can show in task manager) is only reasonable indication - but it is still not really helpful in tracing memory leaks. As for the .NET update, there is also a chance that with that update some of system libraries are updated, even if they have nothing to do with .NET itself. I doubt it, but it is more probably than EVE itself benefitting from improved .NET garbage collection...
Enory	Posted - 2006.01.15 20:28:00 - [25] Edited by: Enory on 15/01/2006 20:28:51 Originally by: Gregory Robson As for the .NET update, there is also a chance that with that update some of system libraries are updated, even if they have nothing to do with .NET itself. I doubt it, but it is more probably than EVE itself benefitting from improved .NET garbage collection... The .NET garbage collector can only be used by .NET itself. It does not know about (Stackless) Python. Python also manages memory differently than .NET, therefore it can only use its own garbage collector. Also, EVE does not have any .NET libraries loaded at all.
Moriel Damodred	Posted - 2006.01.15 21:08:00 - [26] I found that leaving rookie help seemed to help some... Everyone else had a sig and i felt lonly :(
VlKlNG	Posted - 2006.01.15 22:08:00 - [27] Edited by: VlKlNG on 15/01/2006 22:09:32 Just downloaded NET 2.0 http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=0856eacb-4362-4b0d-8edd-aab15c5e04f5&DisplayLang=en and its working, before the install - it took about 3-4 minutes to undock and delay on commands was terrible, now it takes 5-10 sec to undock and delay is about 2-3 seconds - ITS WORKING GUYS! 22.637 players online!
Edu Journeyman	Posted - 2006.01.15 23:58:00 - [28] Thanks Gregory for the advice about Task Manager. I worked around Windows XP (with SP2) and saw something that help me A LOT in decreasing the memory leak, I've played EVE with the changes I made for 3 hours until now, and having only 10% of memory growing I was having before. My Windows XP is in portuguese, then, I dunno the correct names (by Microsoft) of the windows and tabs, I will try my best: My Computer - mouse right click Properties - click Advanced - click Performance - Configurations - click Data execution prevention (DEP) In the bottom of the window was written: Your computer's processor don't support hardware based DEP. Windows can, ... I changed to the second option - Activate DEP to all programs and services, except the ones I select Then I looked for EVE.EXE in the directory I installed it. In the box, the name showed is: CCP Blue Framework The memory leak stills there, but now I can play for, at least 3 hours (like I said) without screen freezes, only the normal games lag. If someone have an advice about this feature of Service Pack 2 or knows how to disable it, please post here. Thanks guys, hope this help some of you. Edu
VinuCobra	Posted - 2006.01.16 07:07:00 - [29] Edited by: VinuCobra on 16/01/2006 07:09:05 i dont know what u guys meant by memeory leak , but i have very serious issue ,whenever i play eve for a long time it tends take 90% memory what i have , can anyone give a solution to this probelm. and the issues is the same with new patch (3802) my sys specs: P IV 3.2E with 1mb L2,1gig ram,radeon 9600le with 256mb,17" monitor and windows xp sp2 with all latest updates and patches for the os and the game
Guillight BLue	Posted - 2006.01.16 21:31:00 - [30] Originally by: VinuCobra Edited by: VinuCobra on 16/01/2006 07:09:05 i dont know what u guys meant by memeory leak , but i have very serious issue ,whenever i play eve for a long time it tends take 90% memory what i have , can anyone give a solution to this probelm. and the issues is the same with new patch (3802) my sys specs: P IV 3.2E with 1mb L2,1gig ram,radeon 9600le with 256mb,17" monitor and windows xp sp2 with all latest updates and patches for the os and the game When I monitored EVE (even after the latest patch) ..memory use is around 350MB constant? Are you sure it's EVE.exe thats eating up all your memory?? And how did you check this?? And you are sure that you downloaded and installed version 2.0 of .NET framework? As you need to select it manualy to download it! It doesn't come with the standard updates! -------------- Guillight BLue [L F C] <IFC>
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.01.16 22:42:00 - [31] EVE is not .Net however, .Net Studio contains C++. C++ in EVE is used for the DirectX stuff. Stackless Python is used for the logic wherever possible. I have .Net 2.0 installed on my main EVE machine. I don't have ANY memory leaks. I use Nvidia graphics. Could be all coincidence or .NET could have some libraries in it that patch more things in Windows than actual .NET stuff. I wouldn't put it past microsoft. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Edu Journeyman	Posted - 2006.01.17 00:11:00 - [32] Hi guys, me again Now I can say that the change I've made worked fine to me. I've been playing since my last post (about 10 hours playing) jumped for about 50~60 times and no memory leak. To users of WINDOWS XP SP2, try that tweak. The dam garbage called DATA EXECUTION PREVENTION was eating my memory so fast... And the crap thing don't come with a option to disable it, only changing to monitoring all the executables except the ones we select manually. But I can play now. Try and, if not work for you, only undo the changes.
Athrun Zhala	Posted - 2006.01.18 16:38:00 - [33] Can u describe that a little bit more clearly ? would be fine :) thx
Edu Journeyman	Posted - 2006.01.18 18:23:00 - [34] I posted here, before, about that feature of Windows XP SP2 called DATA EXECUTION PREVENTION (DEP). Before the changes I've made, my EVE started using 152.000K of memory and, after 10 minutes, it reached 200.000K, in about less then 1 hour of play, my screen started to freeze and HD led shows a lot of activity, the memory usage of EVE was over 400.000K... I've been asking for help from the support and they redirected me to this thread. I've installed NET Framework 2.0 and nothing happened... I fuzzed myself into Windows XP and found that DEP crap... It's under My Computer -> Properties -> Advanced -> Performance - Configurations -> Data execution prevention (DEP) Change to the second option and browse for eve.exe in the directory you've installed it. That's all. I've played for more than 20 hours since the changes and only few, very few traces of memory leak. At least I can play (more then 10 hours direct), without freeze or HD activity. Try that and, please, if it work (or not) to you, post a reply here and say that to the others with the same problem. Luck Edu
Valor Paxton	Posted - 2006.01.18 19:27:00 - [35] I'm no expert so go easy on me, but isn't memory leakage a problem with many programs that use python? Many bittorrent clients that use this get bloated like Azerous and others. I know Az is written in java. My brain is not wired for the real.
Pyotr Veliky	Posted - 2006.01.18 20:42:00 - [36] I have yet to try the DEP angle. Here is what the Microsoft Help and Support Center for XP SP2 has to say on the subject: -------------------------- Understanding Data Execution Prevention Data Execution Prevention (DEP) helps prevent damage from viruses and other security threats that attack by running (executing) malicious code from memory locations that only Windows and other programs should use. This type of threat causes damage by taking over one or more memory locations in use by a program. Then it spreads and harms other programs, files, and even your e-mail contacts. Unlike a firewall or antivirus program, DEP does not help prevent harmful programs from being installed on your computer. Instead, it monitors your programs to determine if they use system memory safely. To do this, DEP software works alone or with compatible microprocessors to mark some memory locations as "non-executable". If a program tries to run codeùmalicious or notùfrom a protected location, DEP closes the program and notifies you. DEP can take advantage of software and hardware support. To use DEP, your computer must be running Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2) or later, or Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1 or later. DEP software alone helps protect against certain types of malicious code attacks but to take full advantage of the protection that DEP can offer, your processor must support "execution protection". This is a hardware-based technology designed to mark memory locations as non-executable. If your processor does not support hardware-based DEP, it's a good idea to upgrade to a processor that offers execution protection features. Is it safe to run a program again if DEP has closed it? Yes, but only if you leave DEP turned on for that program. Windows can continue to detect attempts to execute code from protected memory locations and help prevent attacks. In cases where a program does not run correctly with DEP turned on, you can reduce security risks by getting a DEP-compatible version of the program from the software publisher. For more information about what to do after DEP closes a program, click Related Topics. How can I tell if DEP is available on my computer? 1. To open System Properties, click Start, click Control Panel, and then double-click System. 2. Click the Advanced tab and, under Performance, click Settings. 3. Click the Data Execution Prevention tab. Note By default, DEP is only turned on for essential Windows operating system programs and services. To help protect more programs with DEP, select Turn on DEP for all programs and services except those I select.
nutbar	Posted - 2006.01.19 00:58:00 - [37] For those wondering just what EvE requires when it runs, Microsoft does have a program called "depends" (yah, sounds funny ha ha) that will walk all dependencies of a program. I just ran it on eve.exe and it uses a LOT of things, however sadly I'm not a Windows programmer so I really can't tell you what components, if any, use or rely on something that's a part of (or itself relies on) .NET framework. I'm sure something does - check out the list of dependencies yourself with the "depends" program - you'll have to find it somewhere on MS's site, but it's there.
Pyotr Veliky	Posted - 2006.01.19 01:46:00 - [38] Edited by: Pyotr Veliky on 19/01/2006 01:46:23 I tried turning off the DEP feature for Eve on my machine, and it had little noticeable effect. The program still forced a resizing of virtual memory, and I eventually had to relog in order to fix it. But Edu did not claim that the DEP action would actually stop the leak, and I'm still uncertain whether it improved performance.
Dave Toz	Posted - 2006.01.20 09:34:00 - [39] I would happily commit murder for a linux flavour Eve client :)
Thunderstorm	Posted - 2006.01.20 10:37:00 - [40] I use cacheman to manage my memory and eve never leaks on me. I stay dry. Free program too. Never uses more then 390mb. Never. GET OUT OF MY WAY!
Edu Journeyman	Posted - 2006.01.20 10:38:00 - [41] It's important to notice that my processor (AMD 2000+ ~1,7GHz) don't support DEP, as I said in the 1st post I've made, and, as MS says: "This is a hardware-based technology designed to mark memory locations as non-executable. If your processor does not support hardware-based DEP, it's a good idea to upgrade to a processor that offers execution protection features." The memory leak I was having before was critical, the game was unplayable. It was "eating" all my memory in less then 1 hour. Some of you, players, must have the same problem if your processor don't support that CRAP too. You must look that window called "Data execution prevention", in the bottom, if it has a warning about your processor. Memory leak stills there, but now I can play the game. BTW, I got firewall, Spy Sweeper, Anti Virus... I don't want that TRASH monitoring my memory, I want to disable it. PLEASE, if someone has an idea how to stop that DEP *&%#@$, please post here. Thanks in advance Edu
Surfie	Posted - 2006.01.20 12:57:00 - [42] Originally by: Edu Journeyman BTW, I got firewall, Spy Sweeper, Anti Virus... I don't want that TRASH monitoring my memory, I want to disable it. PLEASE, if someone has an idea how to stop that DEP *&%#@$, please post here. http://www.tech-recipes.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=398
dave1180	Posted - 2006.01.21 15:18:00 - [43] Edited by: dave1180 on 21/01/2006 15:19:10 some people here seem to know what they are talking about so here goes......File created 2006.01.21 14:57:54 <string>:2519: FutureWarning: hex()/oct() of negative int will return a signed string in Python 2.4 and up <string>:2531: FutureWarning: hex()/oct() of negative int will return a signed string in Python 2.4 and up does anyone have any idea what that means? its the error i get when my client hangs after jumping through gates, it started when cold war was released and has gotten alot worse since rmr came. ive tried the .net thing unfortunately it didnt help though.
Hiemalis	Posted - 2006.01.27 11:05:00 - [44] Edited by: Hiemalis on 27/01/2006 11:06:40 Ok, I've had pretty much the same symptoms as everyone else... At first the game works fine but after about one hour everyhing takes forever. Sometimes the image freezes for several minutes , sometimes even the music stops. Simple things like opening your cargo can take up to 5 min... I did two things and Im not sure wich one did the trick: 1. open EVE/cache/prefs.ini and set buffersize to half your RAM memory (for example you have 1024MB, you type 512) (As suggested here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=284496) 2. Shut down rookie help channel I played for 6 hours without any problems. The client even shut down in about 10sec wich always took like 5min before.
Bijaz	Posted - 2006.01.27 11:25:00 - [45] Eve was eating up memory at a massive rate, typically causing the PC to begin swapping after about 3hrs of play, using around 750MB of memory. At this point the game was unplayable. This happened every time without fail. I downloaded and installed the .Net framework 2.0. Eve now uses around 80MB of memory, and the memory consumption does not increase. I have made no other changes to my system, so this issue must be related in some way (on my machine at least) to the .Net framework. This is definately worth trying if you are experiencing memory leak issues.
Shadowjack	Posted - 2006.01.27 12:04:00 - [46] I have a very mediocre 1.7mhz system with half a gig of RAM, and at no time do I ever get problems with freezing or with the much-hated memory leak. I always have "FreeRAM XP Pro" running to optimize my ram, because ever since starting with Windows 3.1, many years ago, I've never trusted Microsoft to do it for me, heh. Anyway, this might be what is helping me play Eve without hassle. It's a free program anyway, so nothing to lose by trying it.
NeoOhm	Posted - 2006.01.27 12:40:00 - [47] Other solution: Get more memory :) WTF?!
Shadowjack	Posted - 2006.01.27 13:25:00 - [48] Getting more memory won't fix a memory leak.
theRaptor	Posted - 2006.01.27 16:23:00 - [49] Originally by: Dave Toz I would happily commit murder for a linux flavour Eve client :) What you think the OS has anything to do with these kinds of memory leaks? I can lock up my machine tight using nothing but pre-installed apps (dodgy USB drivers ftw). I don't think you trust, in, my, self-righteous suicide.
Gretchen Dawntreader	Posted - 2006.01.27 16:52:00 - [50] I'd really like to see some sort of official action on this...the tasklist says that EVE is using like 300mb tops when you start...I've seen it get up to about 1 gig on occasion. (I have 2 gigs ram)
Iavia	Posted - 2006.01.28 10:56:00 - [51] Originally by: Enory To clear things up, EVE is NOT written in .NET, not even the client. Both the client and the server are written in Stackless Python, as the FAQ explains. If installing the .NET Framework 2.0 solves issues, then these issues are caused by something else that uses the .NET Framework. While I agree that is it proably something else in the system that the .NET is helping, i have to point you to the Blue.dll. Nothing is pure python, you at least need an interpreter and proably a few native libraries to go with it.
Kibanu	Posted - 2006.02.02 14:51:00 - [52] Originally by: Kaylana Syi EVE is not .Net however, .Net Studio contains C++. C++ in EVE is used for the DirectX stuff. Stackless Python is used for the logic wherever possible. I have .Net 2.0 installed on my main EVE machine. I don't have ANY memory leaks. I use Nvidia graphics. Could be all coincidence or .NET could have some libraries in it that patch more things in Windows than actual .NET stuff. I wouldn't put it past microsoft. I know this post is a bit old ( 2 weeks at least ), but I wanted to comment on this. Visual Studio .NET does not come with C++, only C#. C++ and C# are so vastly different they can almost not be compared. No C++ apps will use .NET libraries unless the application developer specifically told it to call some of the functions from one, but doubt this would happen. Rookie Help channel would only serve to hurt if the history gets too big. No other channel I've seen gets as much spam as that channel. I do notice a leak as well, so when I get home I'll try this and kill Rookie Help immediately and see if that helps. Best Regards, Kibanu
ingerul9	Posted - 2006.02.03 20:13:00 - [53] Originally by: Shadowjack I have a very mediocre 1.7mhz system with half a gig of RAM, and at no time do I ever get problems with freezing or with the much-hated memory leak. I always have "FreeRAM XP Pro" running to optimize my ram, because ever since starting with Windows 3.1, many years ago, I've never trusted Microsoft to do it for me, heh. Anyway, this might be what is helping me play Eve without hassle. It's a free program anyway, so nothing to lose by trying it. I'm using it as we speak. The screens in betwenn warp stations now load more effectively with this program(faster i mean). Other people should try it too. Before i used it, my usage of memory was going insane. It also boosts a little performance if u have an older computer like me (thunderbird 1,3Mhz, 512Mb ram and a radeon 9200 with 128 bit)
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.02.03 22:07:00 - [54] Originally by: Kibanu Originally by: Kaylana Syi EVE is not .Net however, .Net Studio contains C++. C++ in EVE is used for the DirectX stuff. Stackless Python is used for the logic wherever possible. I have .Net 2.0 installed on my main EVE machine. I don't have ANY memory leaks. I use Nvidia graphics. Could be all coincidence or .NET could have some libraries in it that patch more things in Windows than actual .NET stuff. I wouldn't put it past microsoft. I know this post is a bit old ( 2 weeks at least ), but I wanted to comment on this. Visual Studio .NET does not come with C++, only C#. C++ and C# are so vastly different they can almost not be compared. No C++ apps will use .NET libraries unless the application developer specifically told it to call some of the functions from one, but doubt this would happen. Rookie Help channel would only serve to hurt if the history gets too big. No other channel I've seen gets as much spam as that channel. I do notice a leak as well, so when I get home I'll try this and kill Rookie Help immediately and see if that helps. Sorry but my copy of .NET Studio does come with C++. Visual Stuido 2003 and 2005 from MSDN. Notice I said C++ is used for EVE and NOT C#. I stated that C++ comes with .NET Studio. Follow the logic... it comes with the latest compiler which it has the latest .dll hooks to the OS. If .NET Framework actually comes with extra hooks into the same .dll there might be a modified version of that .dll that is transparent to .NET and C++. Not that this is the case but it might be and its very viable. So thanks for not thinking out my post. And for what it is worth Stackless python doesn't use python 2.4 it is still 2.3. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Lividicus	Posted - 2006.02.04 15:11:00 - [55] Originally by: nutbar For those wondering just what EvE requires when it runs, Microsoft does have a program called "depends" (yah, sounds funny ha ha) that will walk all dependencies of a program. I just ran it on eve.exe and it uses a LOT of things, however sadly I'm not a Windows programmer so I really can't tell you what components, if any, use or rely on something that's a part of (or itself relies on) .NET framework. I'm sure something does - check out the list of dependencies yourself with the "depends" program - you'll have to find it somewhere on MS's site, but it's there. It says on ATis website that you MUST have .net framework 2.0 installed to properly utilize their drivers.
Veauji	Posted - 2006.02.07 16:01:00 - [56] OK, so I installed .Net 2.0 as it sounded like it might fix my, relatively minor, lag issues. Since then I've lost connection about once every 2 hours or so and had several freezes. Eve simply restarts and the "Connection to Server lost" message pops up. I tried uninstalling 2.0 but it's still the same. Any ideas on a cause/fix?
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2006.02.09 22:24:00 - [57] OK, I'm trying the DEP thing, I also opened up prefs.ini and changed the buffersize value to 1024, ie half my RAM. I'll let you know how it goes. Hegemonising Swarm Objects / von Neumann Probes
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2006.02.09 22:39:00 - [58] Just had to force a reboot within a minute of logging into the game. Looks like checking my .NET version is next on my list. I'm running out of options here, sadly. Hegemonising Swarm Objects / von Neumann Probes
Vexy NiLakum	Posted - 2006.02.10 05:45:00 - [59] Edited by: Vexy NiLakum on 10/02/2006 05:53:58 Edited by: Vexy NiLakum on 10/02/2006 05:50:28 First of all, let me say this: EVE IS NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM IS WRITTEN ON .NET!!! Second, to confirm this, download this nifty tool: http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/ProcessExplorer.html This tool is written by one of the Windows architecture experts (see more here: http://www.sysinternals.com/AboutUs.html ) Ok, so you got ProcessExplorer, installed and working. (For your hardcore guys you can download Microsoft(R) Debugging Tools for Windows(R) at http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/debugging/default.mspx They will add more debugging and symbol information to ProcessExplorer) Now you running ProcessExplorer, click on Option -> Configure Highlights... And you will see that all process that are .NET will show up as YELLOW. Fire up EVE. Look in ProcessExplorer, is EVE process highlighted as yellow?! NO. Next, inside ProcessExplorer, click on Show -> View Lower Plane. (Make sure Show -> Lower Plane View -> DLL is check) This will show the list of DLLs that EVE is using. Are any of those DLL a .NET DLL? NO. Click, inside ProcessExplorer, on Show -> Lower Plane View -> Handles Look throught the list... Are any of those handles point to .NET files? NO. Do you see Python DLL files? YES. You will also see that EVE uses Direct3D DLL files, and MCI API DLL. All of which refer that EVE is written either on Python or C/C++, but in no way on .NET Case close... By the way, you can use a lot of things using ProcessExplorer. You can also kill SYSTEM PROCESSES using ProcessExplorer which can not be done with Task Manager ^-^ Lookie lookie: http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/07/running-windows-with-no-services.html EDIT: Looking through EVE memory space using Process Explorer, it seems EVE is written on Virtual C++ with Python. This also supported by the fact that EVE ONLY HAS ONE THREAD!!! Any .NET application will be multi-threaded with threads in CLR (.NET Common Language Run-time) DLL!! Eve does not have it, thus EVE is not .NET! (Download Process Explorer and see for yourself!) --- Official Corp Pet of Dark Nebula Gallente Division (DNGD) >^^< DNGD Recruitment Ad
stormslash	Posted - 2006.02.10 18:26:00 - [60] i havnt had the time to go through every file eve uses but any vidoe game that has the ability to use windowed mode always uses .net. it uses a windows explorer "window" to create the windowed mode feature. so the game may not use .net but it very likely uses systems that do. most video cards now adays use .net also, if you just use the drivers for your video card then it most likely doesnt use .net but if you install any of those stupid software packages that come with the drivers they almost always use .net alot of directX features use .net and no game on a windows system gets around using directX now after all that prattling about .net i still find it hard to beleive that updating your .net would fix this problem but there is still a chance that it could. changing the buffer size is more a work around and will just delay the problem from happening, the ram clean up program is probably the best fix but even that will have its own side effects, such as every time it runs it will cause the cacheing problem for a min or 2. despite the mem leak this game is much more entertaining then any other game but shawdowbane, i put up with the problems in that game for a couple months and i will probably do the same for this game, but if they dont get it fixed i anticipate alot of there customers going back to other games ps i would also feel ok with murdering several dozen windows programers for a linux eve client.
Ashido	Posted - 2006.02.11 01:06:00 - [61] Well i'm glad i've found this thread, had tried everything I could possibly think of, from changing gfx windows size in bios to fiddling with every possible setting and changing lots of drivers time and time again. Just sitting ere in space and chatting in corp chat and getting huge 'spikes' cpu usage drops to 2/3% and avail mem dips to under 30m. Minimising the window and resizing will 'recover' mem back to around 100m, but it doesnt take long to dip. I already use the sysinternals Process Explorer as the infinatly better alt to task manager. Stats Info avail at this point - Eve running for just over 4 hours, mainly idling after 1st hour or so. 512meg AMD 2500xp Private bytes - 453308k Virtual Size - 1777976k Peak Private Bytes - 459468k Working Set - 233108k Peak Working Set - 386576k Page Faults - 4530799 DEP Status - <unknown> With TS/IRC and usual **** running, something aint right when EvE is on a eat all u can. I'll try the pair of 'fixes' one by one and report back to show any comparison/improvement.
Ashido	Posted - 2006.02.11 01:59:00 - [62] Number 1 - Data Execution Protection Acitivated this as instructed and rebooted. First thing I noticed, thought what I seen before was normal. Instead of there being 200meg free according to my taskbar mem stats, there was only 20ish (panic) and this increased slowly (reverse of previous) Oki so EvE aint been runnning a long time 30 odd minutes, but it does seem more stable, tomorrow will be a gd test for DEP on my pc anyway. Stats around 30 mins ish are 512meg AMD 2500xp Private bytes - 173892k (-279416) Virtual Size - 1448964k (-329012) Peak Private Bytes - 183640k (-275828) Working Set - 75144k (-157964) Peak Working Set - 205408k (-4325391) Page Faults - 132742 (n/a) DEP Status - <unknown> same but Blue Framework is excluded All promising, holding fps etc. Will try out all day tommoz b4 i step to .NET frame V2 if still issues. But atm i'm confident (no avail mem fluctuation when u minimise eve and restore) this is better/different/can't be any worse...
Lebowske	Posted - 2006.02.11 11:45:00 - [63] Originally by: Lividicus It says on ATis website that you MUST have .net framework installed to properly utilize their drivers. Version 2.0 is the most up to date version of this, and is available through windowsupdate for free. https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=293 -ATI recommends Windows XP Service Pack 2 or higher to be installed. -You must have Microsoft .NET Framework installed prior to downloading and installing the Catalyst Control Center People - let me clear up one thing regarding ATI, .NET and the drivers. You do NOT need .NET for the drivers. You DO need .NET for the ATI Control Center. The Control enter is a CPU/Memory hog - if you download the drivers from ATI, download the kit without the Control Center - and you'll feel much better. As for what it's worth - Im using ATI X800, AMD 3000+, 1 GB Mem, and not the Control Center - and not seen any memory leak problems except in 1 situation. Left two eve-clients running over night on a single computer, docked at a station and the clients felt like pigs the monring after. Had to reboot to clear the memory/swap. As for the DEP/ATI Control Center - yeah - it seems like you guys are finding something that could be the cause for much of the problems other people are experiencing. -------------------- - Lebowski -- I, the royal we, you know, the editorial --
BigHurley	Posted - 2006.02.11 15:02:00 - [64] whell my problem is that every time i play eve my hole pc craches i have tried the .net 1.1 and 2.0 downloaded new drivers from asus etc. it still craces without an error and when i start up again i get a window from windows saying they are working at it but dont say what the problem is. ive chekt my memory and my video kard and didn't found anything wrong. my specs are: winXP pro asus a7v600-x 1024 ddr 400Mhz amd sempron 2800+ ex850XT PE (agp 8x) can anybode help me with my problem cause im kind of stuck here. tnx.
Ashido	Posted - 2006.02.11 18:19:00 - [65] Edited by: Ashido on 11/02/2006 18:25:48 Edited by: Ashido on 11/02/2006 18:25:22 Do you get info in your game logs ?? Is sound enabled or not? Tried to re-install incase of corruption? DX9 all good ? System clean of spy/viri ? Many permutations... Similar to this ? http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=182
Ashido	Posted - 2006.02.11 19:20:00 - [66] Here's the results, EvE seemed more solid, only neg thing I noticed was that a got a bit of gfx smear from my TSO display that I didnt have b4. 512meg AMD 2500xp 4 hours running b4 and after DEP adjust Private bytes-------- 453308----243892----(209meg down) Virtual Size--------- 1777976----1581860--(196meg down) Peak Private Bytes-- 459468----245496---(214meg down) Working Set---------- 233108----218696---(14meg down) Peak Working Set---- 386576----268536---(118meg down) Page Faults---------- 4530799----2809979--(1720820 faults down) DEP Status------------ Default----ON but EvE.exe excluded Gonna keep this setting in for next few days as this is a major improvement to my gaming
Valectra	Posted - 2006.02.12 01:51:00 - [67] Edited by: Valectra on 12/02/2006 01:52:32 once in game: Try CNTRL ALT SHIFT M goto settings tab and deselect the memory option.. do A reboot and try again... i did this and the memory leak stopped
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2006.02.12 02:20:00 - [68] I did the Ctrl+Alt+Shift+M memory option, disabled DEP for CCP Blue Framework in system settings, and increased buffersize in prefs.ini to 1024 (half my RAM in megs). And remarkably, I managed to get over 3 hours of gameplay without a crash to reboot. For the first time in two weeks, I managed to log out of EVE at the end of an uninterrupted session, normally. By the way, I checked and it seems I don't have .NET Framework installed at all. Not even v1.1. Reason being, it doesn't come as standard on many XP installs, and I have no ATI devices (pure nVidia machine). I'll see how things go from here, hopefully there will be no need to install .NET v2. Hegemonising Swarm Objects / von Neumann Probes
Noctoc	Posted - 2006.02.12 05:47:00 - [69] .Net has no effect on EVE. EVE doesn't use it, and the ATi drivers can run without the control pannel installed (therefore no need for .Net) Originally by: Guillight BLue >>Remember that you need a legal copy of Windows XP Professional (or home edition) to be able to download software / driver updates! Microsoft tightend their security and illegal copies can only download security updates! (I had to buy a legal copy myself last summer ) There's this evil haX0r program in Windows XP called Automatic Updates that downloads all the Micro$oft goodies for you (Yes even .Net v2). But thats naughty boys and girls so don't do it. ========================= Due to lack of funds the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.
Ranathon	Posted - 2006.02.12 11:47:00 - [70] .net is not an auto-update as has been pointed out before, you have to choose custom update,and manually choose .net... I have tried all bar the ctrl-alt-shft-m, trying that now, will report back later... Booty Lover and Cat Person
Noctoc	Posted - 2006.02.12 19:37:00 - [71] Disableing DEP has slowed down the problem for me a bit, I'm upto 4 hours now before it starts hitting the swap file. Originally by: Ranathon .net is not an auto-update as has been pointed out before, you have to choose custom update,and manually choose .net... It can be downloaded with auto update, but you install it manually. auto-update just gets round the stupid check on the M$ web site. Due to lack of funds the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.
KaReL Lightyear	Posted - 2006.02.12 22:53:00 - [72] Hi, Running WinXP Prof. On AMD Sempron. With GeForceTi4200. Eve client is leaking (also have installed all .NET frameworks - as I have to work with Visual Studio). Greetz
Stormwarden	Posted - 2006.02.12 23:34:00 - [73] Edited by: Stormwarden on 12/02/2006 23:35:15
Ranathon	Posted - 2006.02.12 23:46:00 - [74] Originally by: Valectra Edited by: Valectra on 12/02/2006 01:52:32 once in game: Try CNTRL ALT SHIFT M goto settings tab and deselect the memory option.. do A reboot and try again... i did this and the memory leak stopped Not sure if it was this, but i did about 4 hours running 2 accounts, and it LOOKS like my mem look is fixed (or just down to a dribble ) Will see how it goes 2morow night... Booty Lover and Cat Person
Edu Journeyman	Posted - 2006.02.24 15:13:00 - [75] Yeah, disabling that DEP - Data execution prevention - almost solved all my problems. As I said, memory leaks stills in eve.exe, but now I can play for 10 to 12 hours without restarting the game. And my computer only have 512 MB RAM. I only want to thank all the people that posted in the thread to help us. It's a pleasure to see that my advice worked for other too.

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