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Obunagawe
310
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Posted - 2014.01.30 22:12:00 -
[121] - Quote
PLEX is apparently 3.9B on the Chinese server. 630M is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of PLEX price possibilites. |

Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2014.01.31 18:10:00 -
[122] - Quote
Obunagawe wrote:PLEX is apparently 3.9B on the Chinese server. 630M is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of PLEX price possibilites. What Chinese server? Never heard of it . Rather suspicious.
to 617m down 0.96% in 1 day (the next). 3.7% in 3 days. |

Claire Voyant
146
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Posted - 2014.01.31 19:04:00 -
[123] - Quote
Oiras Isimazu wrote:What Chinese server? Never heard of it . Rather suspicious. Have you heard of Google?
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Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2014.02.12 17:38:00 -
[124] - Quote
100+ in Jita 4-4 @ 621m+ Range Station < 5 minutes ago |

Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
118
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Posted - 2014.03.18 14:56:00 -
[125] - Quote
2 in 0.9 Jita 4-4 @ 660m Range Station < 5 minutes ago +93 in 0.9 Jita 4-4 @ 650m+ Range Station < 5 minutes ago
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Salvos Rhoska
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
344
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Posted - 2014.03.18 15:51:00 -
[126] - Quote
Obunagawe wrote:PLEX is apparently 3.9B on the Chinese server. 630M is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of PLEX price possibilites.
For real?! |

Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1876
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Posted - 2014.03.18 16:31:00 -
[127] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Obunagawe wrote:PLEX is apparently 3.9B on the Chinese server. 630M is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of PLEX price possibilites. For real?! the average chinese has much less money to spend on a computer game, thus the demand for plex is much higher and people are more willing to grind A LOT to be able to play in the first place.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |

Alan Darmazaf
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.03.18 16:57:00 -
[128] - Quote
Plex are now at 650-670 millions isk. At this price i prefer to pay my subscription and buy Plex to CCP to sell them on the market. Those prices are ridiculous and kill the game.
It's 100% profit for CCP and 0% for casual players or at least those who are still playing... But maybe CCP don't want new or casual players using plex anymore ?
I played with 3 accounts using plex but at those prices i'm playing only 1 account and i wait for better prices to use the 2 others. Untill then they are sleeping. |

Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
118
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Posted - 2014.03.18 17:03:00 -
[129] - Quote
58 PLEX units were added in Jita +1 in New Caldari all at over 660m. There also are 2 more at 660m in Jita. |

Alan Darmazaf
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.03.18 17:41:00 -
[130] - Quote
It's maybe time for me to try another space game who's out this year. If i have to pay to play i'm gonna pay for a new game and not a 10 years old one ! |
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Ahkea
In the Shade of the Moon Apparitio Tacitus
0
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Posted - 2014.03.23 05:39:00 -
[131] - Quote
Alan Darmazaf wrote: I played with 3 accounts using plex but at those prices i'm playing only 1 account and i wait for better prices to use the 2 others. Until then they are sleeping.
I am down from 6 accounts to 2 and would be down to 1 if mining unboosted was more interesting than watching paint dry, but at 670mil I am about to call it quits after almost 8 years playing. Work a full time job, shower, eat dinner and breakfast drive back and forth to work and guess what? Not enough time in a day to do this. Add in a significant other and/or kids and forget it. No logging in for an hour every couple days and a few hours on the weekends to run a few missions or work on manufacturing a little. Need to spend your entire time making isk or the accounts start shutting off. I am suffering from major burnout as well so EvE, even though it is a great game. is getting harder and harder to justify playing. I can play one of many other MMO's totally free without having to play a couple hours a day to pay for them and there are some new games coming out that I can play for $15 a month (which I can afford).
There are a lot of us who pay with plex others bought, but CCP doesnt care, they made their money the instant the plex was purchased and if I dont buy it from the other pilot, someone else will. Perhaps if enough of us quit over it CCP might do something but otherwise inflation will be rampant in another MMO (cough) SWG (/cough) |

Far Wanderer
Bank of Far
16
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Posted - 2014.03.23 06:36:00 -
[132] - Quote
Ahkea wrote:[quote=Alan Darmazaf] Perhaps if enough of us quit over it CCP might do something but otherwise inflation will be rampant in another MMO (cough) SWG (/cough) Or maybe someone will figure out how to leverage player's need to earn ISK into an opportunity to get players to lend some of their ISK out.
In my experience there's something powerful in paying out a consistent interest rate on funds lent, such that players are always eager to deposit more. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. --Azual Skoll |

Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
328
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Posted - 2014.03.23 06:58:00 -
[133] - Quote
Ahkea wrote:There are a lot of us who pay with plex others bought, but CCP doesnt care, they made their money the instant the plex was purchased Of course CCP care.
They care about their players, they care about retaining those players, they care about recruiting new players, they care about their subscriber count, they care about their peak concurrent user count and they care about their profits. Anyone running a business like CCP are is going to be concerned about these things. To claim otherwise is just foolish.
There is a difference, however, between caring about players and being able to keep all players happy in a massive sandbox game with a player driven economy. The first should be a given, the second is basically impossible.
I feel for your situation and I am held back by the cost of PLEX just the same as you. I've recently cut down from 18 accounts to 13 and am considering dropping one or two more, because things that were worthwhile when PLEX was 500m are not so worthwhile when PLEX is at 670m+. I too cannot justify paying subs on EVE accounts, as I'm semi-retired now and don't have the income I once had. I love the fact that CCP has made it possible for wealthy veterans to play the game at the expense of others. But none of us has the unalianable right to play EVE for free.
Ahkea wrote:and if I dont buy it from the other pilot, someone else will. And if that is true, it's the market that is setting the price of PLEX, not CCP.
Ahkea wrote:Perhaps if enough of us quit over it CCP might do something Maybe. But if enough of us stop using PLEX to run extra accounts the market will adjust and the price will come down without any intervention from CCP at all.
Ahkea wrote:but otherwise inflation will be rampant in another MMO Inflation isn't the big deal that people make it out to be in EVE. The majority of people claiming it is are just plain ignorant.
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
182
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Posted - 2014.03.23 08:58:00 -
[134] - Quote
Ahkea wrote:CCP doesnt care, they made their money the instant the plex was purchased If I read the CCP Consolidated Financial Statement for 2013 correctly, this is actually not true.
You might say it's only a minor difference, but according to section 3.7.2 "in-game curreny" is recognized when it has been consumed. And since PLEX is clearly not covered in section 3.7.1 "subscription fees" or in any of the other sections under 3.7 I'd say it's viewed as being in-game currency. This view seems to be supported by the ammount of deferred revenue. US$ 6.6M seems to be a bit much for just AUR alone.
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Naya Sky
Serra Industries
20
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Posted - 2014.03.23 12:03:00 -
[135] - Quote
Interesting number.
I think one of the larger problems with the current situation is PLEX hoarding. It is such a good investment that people keep obscene amounts. For PLEX investors this means something like ~50% increase in yearly value for almost zero risk - PLEX has been consistently rising in price and will continue to do so until CCP changes something. Yes I realize that PLEX will always go up as the game gets older but one of the reasons for rapid growth is PLEX hoarding. More and more people are realizing that it's better to keep PLEX rather than ISK and this just accelerates price growth. People often compare PLEX to gold in real world - but that's not true, PLEX is like super-gold. I mean how can such an amazing risk free investment be healthy for long term economy?
Personally I would love to see some sort of mechanic that would discourage PLEX hoarding. For example, there could be a PLEX-unique additional tax that would be 'time dependent'.
Let's say when PLEX is created in-game it would be time stamped and for the first week (?) you can sell it without any penalty. After that there would be a 1% tax added each week(?) when you attempt to sell that particular PLEX. If you would hold to a PLEX for months it would get to a point where it's simply not worth selling and you would be 'forced' to use it on your own account.
Yes this idea goes against the free market that we have but I think it would create a healthier economy in the long run. Sure PLEX would still increase over time - but the growth rate would be slower (and the growth rate would be driven by actual supply and demand and not by speculators), since people would not hoard PLEX as an investment but they would just keep smaller amounts for their own personal use.
On top of that I think such a system would also be good for CCP. I'm pretty sure they would rather see that pile of half a million units of in-game PLEX get smaller. |

Obunagawe
333
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Posted - 2014.03.23 12:49:00 -
[136] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:Ahkea wrote:CCP doesnt care, they made their money the instant the plex was purchased If I read the CCP Consolidated Financial Statement for 2013 correctly, this is actually not true. You might say it's only a minor difference, but according to section 3.7.2 "in-game curreny" is recognized when it has been consumed. And since PLEX is clearly not covered in section 3.7.1 "subscription fees" or in any of the other sections under 3.7 I'd say it's viewed as being in-game currency. This view seems to be supported by the ammount of deferred revenue. US$ 6.6M seems to be a bit much for just AUR alone. EDIT: Btw, this allows to make an educated guess about the total number of PLEX in the game. If we take into account that PLEX is probably largely sold at reduced prices and assume that the total amount of AUR is not significant I'd assume an average value of 1 PLEX around US$ 17.50. With that we get an estimate of more then 377k PLEX, which are available as a tradeable item in the game in December 2013. I can't remember having seen an official statement about the ammount of PLEX in-game, but 377k at least seems to be plausible.
See note 23.
Deferred revenue analyses as follows:
Subscriptions 4,359,823
In-game purchases not yet consumed 2,108,158
Sale of goods not yet delivered 137,791
Total 6,605,772
Subscriptions category probably includes 12 month and other "extended" subscriptions where money has been paid up-front for game time that is not yet realised.
PLEX probably comes under the second heading of "in-game purchases not yet consumed". This would bring the estimated total PLEX count down to 120,466.
This is actually quite insignificant when compared to the total number of active accounts, or the amount of PLEX traded in Jita monthly (about 90,000).
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
182
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Posted - 2014.03.23 14:39:00 -
[137] - Quote
Obunagawe wrote:See note 23. Hmm... but PLEX isn't something that is purchased (from CCP) in-game. Maybe I was very wrong assuming that the ammount of AUR is insignificant.
Could it be that "subscriptions" means PLEX and GTC, "in-game purchases not yet consumed" means AUR and "sale of goods not yet delivered" are GTC codes already sold but not yet claimed?
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Obunagawe
333
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Posted - 2014.03.23 15:56:00 -
[138] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:
Could it be that "subscriptions" means PLEX and GTC, "in-game purchases not yet consumed" means AUR and "sale of goods not yet delivered" are GTC codes already sold but not yet claimed?
Let's look at PLEX. A PLEX can be consumed to provide 30 days of gametime for an account. The PLEX is therefore a liability to CCP in that it requires them to provide a real commodity - 30 days of server processing power - in exchange.
Let's look at AUR. AUR can be consumed to provide in-game accessory items through an automated store. These in-game accessories have no real value and the load they place on the server is negligible.
I very much doubt that AUR is included at all in any of the categories of liability.
EDIT: However this leads me to another thought: The quantity of USD for "In-game purchases not yet consumed" is likely to be equivalent to the cost to CCP of providing the gametime, rather than the cost of purchasing the gametime for a customer.
This means that my 120K estimate could be only a small fraction of what the actual number is, depending on how much gross profit CCP actually make on a PLEX! |

Baron Chauman
Gladiators of Rage Fidelas Constans
13
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Posted - 2014.03.25 11:20:00 -
[139] - Quote
Naya Sky wrote:Personally I would love to see some sort of mechanic that would discourage PLEX hoarding. For example, there could be a PLEX-unique additional tax that would be 'time dependent'.
No, that would be far too sane. Eve allows all kinds of socially destructive behaviors which it would probably have a larger number of players without. Removing the ability for people with too much isk to hoard vast amounts of plex at the expense of your average hard-working multiboxing miner would take something very important away from this capitalism simulator.
I don't like the comparison of plex to gold either. Gold doesn't really have practical use that justifies its price. I compared it to the housing market in another thread. On one side you have everyone who needs a place to live, on the other people with large piles of money who wants a safe way to turn them into bigger piles of money, and they drive up prices until people can just barely afford a roof over their heads, and sometimes beyond that.
Like the myth of the slowly boiling frog, people can easily tolerate a 200% increase in basic costs of living over decades (adjusted for inflation), but could revolt against a 10% increase in a week. The few who refuse to play along with minor changes are normally replaced by new pets who take pride in their ability of being able to afford whatever prices the investor class demand of them. As long as these kinds of prices rise slowly, they can keep rising very far above what simple demand and supply (between producer<>consumer) would ever support.
For those of us who wouldn't play this game unless we could pay for our time with isk, plex is like a drug our characters need in order not to go into a coma until the next "30 days free if you come back" offer. Still I'd be more interested in seeing how it turns out the way it works now, even if that's from an inactive account. Maybe in a few years half of null will be owned by one guy and his 100 multiboxed Avatars with renter support fleets (assuming this is not already the case). |

Alek Azam
Screaming Hayabusa
0
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Posted - 2014.03.25 12:37:00 -
[140] - Quote
Make more ISK so much easier to buy plex then.
Work smarter not harder /end |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5304
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Posted - 2014.03.25 15:07:00 -
[141] - Quote
Alan Darmazaf wrote:It's maybe time for me to try another space game who's out this year. If i have to pay to play i'm gonna pay for a new game and not a 10 years old one !
Yeah, sadly in EvE there's this terrible thing called "law of supply and demand". Even worse, EvE got markets driven economy. Preposterous. 
Also, there's no "redistribution to the poor" and no "popular republic".
Gotta find them in real life, where they show how good they are.  Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Mike'P
Kansas City Industrial
5
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Posted - 2014.03.26 00:04:00 -
[142] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Also, there's no "redistribution to the poor" and no "popular republic". Gotta find them in real life, where they show how good they are. 
From what I've learned since 2008, those are a reaction to broken game mechanics where the chances of getting a Dev to turn up in the channel and listen to the informed opinions of the players is totally and actually zero - because they are gaming the game to their own advantage and don't give a **** about anyone else.
Getting back to PLEX, though, I've just logged in and there is now about a 60 mil buy/sell difference in Amarr - which based on my experience smells of manipulation of some sort as the channel is normally 10-20mil.
Managed to flip a couple, but not going to get any deeper as this doesn't feel right to me. |

Claire Voyant
147
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Posted - 2014.03.27 12:27:00 -
[143] - Quote
Mike'P wrote:Getting back to PLEX, though, I've just logged in and there is now about a 60 mil buy/sell difference in Amarr - which based on my experience smells of manipulation of some sort as the channel is normally 10-20mil.
Managed to flip a couple, but not going to get any deeper as this doesn't feel right to me. Buyers in Amarr will lag Jita while sellers will go with Jita prices so the margin is not surprising.
If it was manipulation, I think volume would be higher. It's been more than a year since the last sustained manipulation attempt so I don't have those volume numbers handy, but trust me I wish it was manipulation.
Go to Jita and look at the graph. Whenever volume is low price rises, whenever volume is high price falls. This is a classic sign that prices are driven by supply and supply has been dismal. Large sellers have apparently been selling from inventories, but even those folks might either run out of inventory or decide to wait to see how high prices could go.
Blame it on bad press if you want, but apparently the guys that have cash to spend on a game have decided that they don't want to give it all to Jita scammers and they've gone somewhere else (for now.) |

Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
331
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Posted - 2014.03.27 13:42:00 -
[144] - Quote
Claire Voyant wrote:apparently the guys that have cash to spend on a game have decided that they don't want to Which is entirely understandable. The economic outlook over the last year, both in the real world and in the land of internet spaceships, has been less than encouraging. It should come as no suprise to anyone that less people want to put real life money in to EVE, which means more isk chasing fewer PLEXes. |

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
243
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Posted - 2014.03.30 02:35:00 -
[145] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Claire Voyant wrote:apparently the guys that have cash to spend on a game have decided that they don't want to Which is entirely understandable. The economic outlook over the last year, both in the real world and in the land of internet spaceships, has been less than encouraging. It should come as no suprise to anyone that less people want to put real life money in to EVE, which means more isk chasing fewer PLEXes.
I"m not 100% sure about the "economy" of the outside world.. . .it could be just a downward drift in "whats a fair price for a game?", and more specifically "what's a fair price for game microtransaction benefits (which is basically how people using $ to isk look at the transaction)
There are all sorts of offseting things ... benefit of plex accounts to game goals on the demand side...
.... need for expensive ships to motivate putting extra $ into the game from need of ISK and lack of time who are having fun.
The in game "economy" I think is based on which ships are popular to fly and get blown up , and how many are getting blown up and whether or not there are corp reimbursement programs etc.
If everyone is flying T1 cruisers for roams... or interceptors... there isn't much motivation for a casual player who would use $ instead of farming, to use those $ as much.
10 intercepters blown up a month > 1 plex is going to let you cover 2 months.
10 T3 ships getting blown up a month? (ouch) > you'd need 5 plex a months 10 times the intercepter route.
That sort of thing isn't about player activity necessary but FADs, Fashions Trends it what players are doing at a given time.
The buff of intercepters and previous buff of T1 cruisers meant the portion of the corps flying those for fun made it so their members flying fleet disciplined fits didn't need to use nearly as much $ to play and brought less plex to market ? . |

Adunh Slavy
1352
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Posted - 2014.03.30 12:16:00 -
[146] - Quote
Diomedes Calypso wrote: I"m not 100% sure about the "economy" of the outside world.. . .it could be just a downward drift in "whats a fair price for a game?"
The outside world has to have an impact, it is after all outside world humans who play the inside world game. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |

adriaans
Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
8
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Posted - 2014.04.01 02:01:00 -
[147] - Quote
Diomedes Calypso wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Claire Voyant wrote:apparently the guys that have cash to spend on a game have decided that they don't want to Which is entirely understandable. The economic outlook over the last year, both in the real world and in the land of internet spaceships, has been less than encouraging. It should come as no suprise to anyone that less people want to put real life money in to EVE, which means more isk chasing fewer PLEXes. I"m not 100% sure about the "economy" of the outside world.. . .it could be just a downward drift in "whats a fair price for a game?", and more specifically "what's a fair price for game microtransaction benefits (which is basically how people using $ to isk look at the transaction) There are all sorts of offseting things ... benefit of plex accounts to game goals on the demand side... .... need for expensive ships to motivate putting extra $ into the game from need of ISK and lack of time who are having fun. The in game "economy" I think is based on which ships are popular to fly and get blown up , and how many are getting blown up and whether or not there are corp reimbursement programs etc. If everyone is flying T1 cruisers for roams... or interceptors... there isn't much motivation for a casual player who would use $ instead of farming, to use those $ as much. 10 intercepters blown up a month > 1 plex is going to let you cover 2 months. 10 T3 ships getting blown up a month? (ouch) > you'd need 5 plex a months 10 times the intercepter route. That sort of thing isn't about player activity necessary but FADs, Fashions Trends it what players are doing at a given time. The buff of intercepters and previous buff of T1 cruisers meant the portion of the corps flying those for fun made it so their members flying fleet disciplined fits didn't need to use nearly as much $ to play and brought less plex to market ?
Interceptors tend to die a lot more than T3 cruisers, and especially so in regards to t1 cruisers. ----True oldschool solo pvp'er---- My latest vid: Insanity IV |

Eves Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.05.03 15:06:00 -
[148] - Quote
705.9 m Jita 4-4 x6 705.2 m x 119 + more 700 m + |

mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3425
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:17:00 -
[149] - Quote
So they're falling, in other words. This isn't much of a surprise to anyone who watched EyjoG's economy presentation at fanfest. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |

Eves Aldent
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.03 15:56:00 -
[150] - Quote
I didn't see it yet, and this character is also falling out of the EVEBoard due to the reserve EVE name on there. |
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