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Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries
Dark Tide Federation
11
   |
Posted - 2013.09.20 11:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:C DeLeon wrote:I have problems finding the similarities in this. The AH made diablo terrible while the market makes eve great. The reason why the ah was a terrible idea at the first place because the whole loot system and game experience is balanced around trading which is silly. I understand they wanted to undermine black market and rmt but it made more harm than good. In diablo 1-2 it was all about killing monsters and getting loot for it. Of course if someone wanted high-end gear they had to trade with other players but it wasn't so common as it is in diablo 3. The ah was the reason why the loot system is so terrible and not rewarding. Even after hundreds of hours of gameplay you character is still sh#t unless you start ah manipulation or you touch your credit card. If you want to gear up multiple classes by yourself you are pretty much screwed. (Btw the official forums are full with delicious tears by the players who played diablo for the money. We joke about eve players who lives in the basement and haven't seen the sun since months but in diablo it is actually true. There are lots of players playing 8-10 hours a day streaming the whole time and living from real money ah and donations. They are totally buttmad now  ) The hate keeps us warm 
Also, I agree 100% with your take on the Eve Market being awesome and the D3AH being horrible. My intent was not to say they are the same and that both are therefore great but rather to highlight two different models and why one is successful while the other generally sucks. Sorry if I didn't make that clear  |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries
Dark Tide Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 11:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Ah  my first guess was Quit Effin Talking haha The base mindset of the average EVE player: When in doubt, feel threatened/insulted... ...no wonder nobody wants to play with us. 
Well... fine then. 
Also, I think that Eve players have the reputation that they do is due in large part to the freedom that is afforded to capsuleers within the New Eden star cluster. Personally, I enjoy the cutthroat nature of Eve and think it makes better players while providing a more realistic experience. But that's just me .. and frankly, what the hell do I know? :D |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries
Dark Tide Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 12:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
 |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21033
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 12:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Well... fine then. Also, I think that part of the reason Eve players have the reputation that they do is due in large part to the freedom that is afforded to capsuleers within the New Eden star cluster. Personally, I enjoy the cutthroat nature of Eve and think it makes better players while providing a more realistic experience. But that's just me .. and frankly, what the hell do I know? :D
I was joking...
"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!"
Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries
Dark Tide Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 12:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Well... fine then. Also, I think that part of the reason Eve players have the reputation that they do is due in large part to the freedom that is afforded to capsuleers within the New Eden star cluster. Personally, I enjoy the cutthroat nature of Eve and think it makes better players while providing a more realistic experience. But that's just me .. and frankly, what the hell do I know? :D I was joking...
Don't mind me ... just bored at the cubicle farm ... doing thingz and drinking coffeez.
I do appreciate everyone's input. |
Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
186
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 14:38:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tao Dolcino wrote:I play EVE BECAUSE there is no microtransaction. I want to pay my 15Gé¼ every months and be equal with the other subscribers.
"Greed is good" = immediat unsub.
hear hear.
When CCP first introduced AUR, I quit for a while. I came back for the pvp and the people I knew, but I lost a lot of my love for EVE over that whole ordeal. |
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
495
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 14:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Bischopt wrote:They probably won't go down that path.
If they did, some of us would finally have a reason to quit spending money on this game. What about Aurum? I have also heard rumors of Eve moving to a free-to-play model with microtransactions becoming the norm. I agree with you though - I think this would kill a part Eve Online's soul ... assuming she has one, what a heartless bi-...err, lady she can be 
Cite on the F2P? I keep hearing that, but it always seems to be pulled out of someone's anal orifice without authoritative cite. i.e. Rumor Mongering (a bit of a no-no).
CCP, debuff Barges, or buff Ganking. Either will do for me, but we need more Yaaar! in this game lest it become WoW in Spaaaaace!
-á~ Me |
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Luna Wolf Industries
Dark Tide Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 15:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
Plastic Psycho wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Bischopt wrote:They probably won't go down that path.
If they did, some of us would finally have a reason to quit spending money on this game. What about Aurum? I have also heard rumors of Eve moving to a free-to-play model with microtransactions becoming the norm. I agree with you though - I think this would kill a part Eve Online's soul ... assuming she has one, what a heartless bi-...err, lady she can be Cite on the F2P? I keep hearing that, but it always seems to be pulled out of someone's anal orifice without authoritative cite. i.e. Rumor Mongering (a bit of a no-no).
CCP has shotdown the viability of going to a F2P model because they have a successful subscription-based model that has seen ten years of consecutive growth that works.
I think that the F2P model has been suggested as a compliment to microtransactions.
Anal leakage aside, you're correct, their is no CCP-supported effort for this F2P model as of yet. |
Herr Esiq
Dirt Nap Squad
61
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 15:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
I quit Diablo III because i was terribly bummed out by the RM AH. It utterly destroys any sense of achievement and replayabillity.
Look at Borderlands 2, thats how you build a game that has a lot of replay value because of item drops. Yes you can hack and cheat your wat in BL2 but that isnt a real concern in that game somehow. In DIII it was impossible to trade at some point because people only wanted cash for their items. Destroyed the community before it began. |
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
46
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 19:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
Amhra Rho wrote:This article shows lots of signs that Bizzard didn't know what they were doing when they created the auction house in D3. It's incredibly difficult to create and balance a virtual economy - you need a good economist plus your own fair share of luck. This article makes it sound like Blizz had neither. Then there's this: Quote:Blizzard will shut down the auction house entirely come March 18, 2014. If it's such a horrendous mess, why are they waiting half a year to phase it out? It's just . . . odd. Not taking a stand on microtransactions one way or the other - just suggesting that Blizzard perhaps creates better Orc battles than Auction Houses.
They are waiting because they are releasing a new "Loot 2.0" (their tern, not mine) with the upcoming expansion to D3.
It they shut it down now, they have a game with piles of generally-bad loot drops and a crafting system that tends to create random (read, 'usually not overly useful") loot. Since their admitted point to the game is to kill things and take their stuff, having crappy loot drop after crappy loot drop after crappy loot craft would probably kill their remaining playerbase in advance of the expansion. They took a hard hit with a less-than-stellar launch, and appear to be counting on the PS3 release and subsequent expansion to revive the game. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3408
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 19:33:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Jim Era wrote:If only CCP would release WiS then just imagine....no need to p2w at all, just keep the monthly sub and vanity items...but implement p2becool...I would pay $20 for a cat to follow me around in station...and a little rc car...and cigars Perhaps we could get some real-PvP in a bar, eh?
We can hope.
I'll MT for a handgun. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
515
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 20:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
Honestly, Blizzard's statement on AH closure is even worse. Basically, by calling loot gathering and trade "core game play" they've admitted that they can't make anything more than glorified slot machine out of Diablo.
Also perhaps I should remind some people here that RMAH wasn't the only AH in D3. Somehow I think that end of regular AH gonna kill low-end trade there, but perhaps I'm wrong.
Heck, it's like removing market from EVE while only leaving contracts... At best. |
James Akachi
Perkone
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 23:07:00 -
[43] - Quote
The RMAH and microtransactions are comparable but not really the same thing. You can do the same thing in Eve simply by buying enough PLEX to purchase what you want from the market, instead of using ISK accumulated yourself. But if they introduce game-balance items directly purchasable for Aurum or whatever, that's when people get angry. I agree there is no need for such a thing in Eve, but I have given it some thought and I can not see a functional difference between that and using PLEX. Assuming of course that things you currently cannot buy on the market, remain so. Of course there are other implications if say, you were suddenly able to buy anything on the market without going to Jita/etc, and I don't have the experience to say whether that would matter to nullsec PvP.
But truly, the largest difference is that the other games discussed are usually not gated by a subscription, and Eve is. It is curious most of the anti-F2P rhetoric is focused around P2W which already exists in a way, and not the sub. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
1146
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 23:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:Sentamon wrote:Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:shutdown for essentially undermining the core gameplay and reward factor that players's achieve through that gameplay so they say  some people will believe anything I swear Do you disagree that the Auction House shortcuts, and therefore undermines, the entire purpose for playing? I can see how being able to purchase some awesome piece of gear could be enticing to some, however, I also think that defeats the purpose of progression and makes the whole experience less legitimate for those who value the experience of level'ing a character. Like I said earlier - I can sorta see both sides of the coin, it's just a slippery slope in my opinion.
I believe they make more money selling and banning RMT accounts then on their auction house, hence the change.
Also placing real value on vitrual goods opens up a legal can of worms and mmo companies can't just ban with impunity like they love to do and sweep all their problems under the rug.
Their so called reason is just bs PR spin, people have been able to "undermine gameplay" through RMT since the beginning of mmos.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
15
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:20:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:I found this article about how Diablo 3's Auction House is being shutdown for essentially undermining the core gameplay and reward factor that players's achieve through that gameplay. Hopefully CCP will keep this in mind and not go this way... that EA-guy, Mr. Wutziz Naim, should read this article.
Maybe I'm under-informed... dunno. Perhaps. What are your thoughts?
[url]http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/no-money-no-problems-blizzard-axes-diablo-3-auction-house-4B11192195[/url]
You are under-informed, but in a good way. The summer of rage already happened, and CCP got educated on what would happen if micro-transactions became a thing in EVE. |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
524
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:47:00 -
[46] - Quote
I don't mind microtransactions for more clothing.
I still want my top hat.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby".
If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy
The ROC
929
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 01:50:00 -
[47] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:I don't mind microtransactions for more clothing.
I still want my top hat.
I'd put some money down for a pirate flag background.
That's really the issue I have with MTs in EVE. Most of them are... pretty pointless.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy
Caldari State
139
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 02:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:I found this article about how [i]Hopefully CCP will keep this in mind and not go this way... that EA-guy, Mr. Wutziz Naim, should read this article.
Well, you got the sleeve tattoo on your avatar. Technically buying that collector's set includes the microtransaction.
Many would be willing to pay simply for the tattoo (rather than 149.99Gé¼ for the whole set)
All CCP needs to learn is that p2win microtransactions would kill their game, while vanity item transactions would shell out big profits.
As far as D3 goes.. I used to be big fan of the franchise. That's how i got sucked into PC gaming - starting with blizzard games such as warcraft and diablo1. The AH in D3 pretty much killed the interest in diablo games for many players. It didn't hold my interest for a month, while I am ashamed to admit that I played Diablo1 single player for at least 2 years nonstop |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
115
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 03:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
In addition to everything related to micro transations...
I have no idea how they thought they could have a drop rate high enough that a casual player could get equipment that would let them advance, without the market being overwhelmed with stuff for sale by people who play 10 times the hours weekly.
Even without the Real money auction house, without bind on equip at the least and a bunch of bind on picku-up the market would be awash in everything unless the number of players coming to the game grew exponentially.
Yes, they tried to have a system where items were destroyed for the useful materials attained throguh "reprocessing" . Not enough to keep the best items able to run content on the AH...
They resorted to miniscule drop rates and tightened boss dynanics that were narrow gear checks to ensure that the rarest items were indeed needed.
That meant the game was about trading the AH , stopping at a lover level .. etc?
To be honest.. that was my take from the end of my first month.. I figured a glut was coming with the wave of casual players working their way up.. so I sold the gear I was using for $60 and went on to another game.
I did have a LOT of fun! Good memories. I didn't expect to play it long. Its fight dymanics prior to the patch would have been worth me coming back to if I could still take multiple approaches and use a broad assortment of reasonably attainable gear to take on stuff
Whoever designed the spells and the NPCS etc created something fun to play for me...... (raising repair costs was also a game killer... I don't like doing anything that I can do well.. i like failing until I get something then not coming back after I can do it) |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1323
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 07:09:00 -
[50] - Quote
CPP could allow the players to design vanity items which could be bought with real money or even LP, it would open up a whole new area for some players to get involved in.
This is not a signature. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8048
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 07:24:00 -
[51] - Quote
People can visit the monument in jita to see what we think of MT.
CCP even put it in their ten year trailer so the lesson was learned. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
219
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 07:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:I'm not sure those games have player-driven economies as intricately woven into gameplay as Eve Online does - I've never played another MMO [on PC] for more than 5m.
I think the implied lesson is don't' break it if it doesn't need to be fixed... or something :D
Well, to be honest I don't see what's so different with mining in EVE and mining in say, WoW. Both are point and click adventures, both provide materials for player driven economy. Granted EVE's economy is likely unique in sheer vastness of the market, but any game that has crafting is at it's core the same - regardless of how superficially complicated iti s, it generally boilos down to: Players gather materials and the same or other players make stuff out of these materials, players then price said items according to the difficulty of acquiring the materials and time spent manufacturing the items.
We even have equipment tiers much like in WoW - meta 1 is uncommon, meta 2-3 is rare and meta 4 is epic gear, beyond that are legendary and artifact level items. And just like in WoW the best of these items aren't player created but found randomly on NPC's.
And yes I know EvE predates WoW by over a year, but WoW is the penultimate subscription based MMO. And if you want to blurb "lel wow sucks", don't, because most likely you came from that game to here. All MMO's have equally childish playerbases, regardless of their physical maturity. The themes are different but WoW's and Eve's General Discussion forum is just as terrible whinefest about how people will cancel their 10 subscriptions if CCP/Blizzard won't change something to their liking. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
391
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 12:30:00 -
[53] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:[quote=Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley]We even have equipment tiers much like in WoW - meta 1 is uncommon, meta 2-3 is rare and meta 4 is epic gear, beyond that are legendary and artifact level items. And just like in WoW the best of these items aren't player created but found randomly on NPC's.
Which is one of the few things that felt wrong to me when I started getting into EVE.
Much like, as a former D2 HC player, I had an extremely hard time in WoW getting used to not loosing my character for good after screwing up. So actullay being at risk again to loose stuff was one of the most appealing features of EVE, when I decided it was time to leave WoW.
Players really should build everything used in EVE, including the faction and officer stuff. NPCs seeding resources to support this is fine. But players ahould be doing the manufacturing.
Remove insurance. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16569
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 12:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:We even have equipment tiers much like in WoW - meta 1 is uncommon, meta 2-3 is rare and meta 4 is epic gear, beyond that are legendary and artifact level items. And just like in WoW the best of these items aren't player created but found randomly on NPC's. GǪexcept that the tiers in EVE don't actually work like that. That's why you see so many horrible killmails with ships stuck full of Meta-14 items: because are stuck in a Gǣda purplez!Gǥ mode of thinking that does not apply to this game.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
100
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 13:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
I can hardly wait until we can buy Skill Points with ISK or $$$. It'will be excellent...
Everyone is always repeating the mantra "Don't Trust Anyone" ad nauseum... If I can't trust the guys I play with, why bother playing with them at all? Fly Solo... |
Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
17
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 14:15:00 -
[56] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Teinyhr wrote:We even have equipment tiers much like in WoW - meta 1 is uncommon, meta 2-3 is rare and meta 4 is epic gear, beyond that are legendary and artifact level items. And just like in WoW the best of these items aren't player created but found randomly on NPC's. GǪexcept that the tiers in EVE don't actually work like that. That's why you see so many horrible killmails with ships stuck full of Meta-14 items: because are stuck in a Gǣda purplez!Gǥ mode of thinking that does not apply to this game.
I always watch loving ALOD articles crack open EFT and run the numbers on how horrible the fit actually is. Nine times out of ten, the fit is outperformed by a simple, non-faction fit that isn't pants on head ********.
Doc Severide wrote:I can hardly wait until we can buy Skill Points with ISK or $$$. It'will be excellent...
It's called purchasing a character. |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
224
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 14:20:00 -
[57] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪexcept that the tiers in EVE don't actually work like that. That's why you see so many horrible killmails with ships stuck full of Meta-14 items: because are stuck in a Gǣda purplez!Gǥ mode of thinking that does not apply to this game.
Yes they do and yes they are. They have better stats, are easier to fit, aren't readily available to everyone who would want them, so they are in essence "purples."
Just like in any game though, having better gear means absolutely nothing if you simply suck at playing or you are vastly outnumbered. |
Ivan Krividus
Born Crazy
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 16:31:00 -
[58] - Quote
Blizzard's first good decision since brood war |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
White Mountain Coalition
382
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 22:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
I never want to see mt in eve, not only did I riot about it with everyone else but I biomassed my 5 year old main and unsubbed at the time, I only came back because there's nothing out there like eve. CCP are damn lucky that they have no quality competitor's. I hope they respect their player base and don't abuse their position by trying to introduce pay to win ever again.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Baron' Soontir Fel
Justified Chaos
30
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 22:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:I can hardly wait until we can buy Skill Points with ISK or $$$. It'will be excellent...
Character Bazaar...
Buy Plex with $$$. Sell Plex for ISK. Buy Character with ISK.
Literally the same idea as the auction house. |
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