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Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
37
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Greetings. This is a serious post.
This is not a rant and it has a rather long introduction, to give you a context of what the frell i am talking about.
I know there are a lot of you out there, complaining about what they believe is the direction CCP is heading with the game. I've seen the threads and i've posted in them, too.
Now ... you may know me, or you may not, that's pretty much not relevant, but i want to add that in my years playing EvE, i have learned *a lot* about how peoples minds work.
Although i consider myself to be a solo player, 95% of my time i seek interaction with others. This includes ganking as much as talking in local and several chatrooms at once. I have no friends and need to compensate for that fact. Or something.
I have learned how information spreads and how to exploit specific human characteristica to my advantage, in regards to how information spreads and how this information gets altered on it's way, even by the first messenger.
I have learned that pushing specific buttons in people leads to specific, consequential behaviour, by chance, but definitely when the specific button triggers an emotional (bodily) response.
Many of you actually know what i'm talking about.
It's when you interact with somebody (even a carebear) and trigger adrenaline in him, completely altering his mind and thus his reality. (hi dave ^_^)
This works with noobs for recruitment purposes, for example. You all know (or don't) about those who blow up noobs to recruit them. These are different than those who blow noobs up for laughter. They just do what i've described above.
And of course, even if they don't know about this human mechanic, they exploit it.
So ... thanks for reading ... now the point.
You're all idiots. *lol* (i mean this in a nice, laughing way. really. i can point at myself with this, too!) Except the devs, for obvious reasons.
You guys complain about the direction the game might be heading. Highsec safer blabla, pvp free zones balbla, pay2win blabla, wow in space BLAAAAA, etc etc etc.
No, this won't be going into the direction of gankers or alts or whatever.
I can tell you *for sure* that you're exactly getting what you are afraid of is going to happen *and* i can tell you the very reason *why* it *will* happen, unless we stop the process ourselves.
We can ! Well ... we could. I personally can't, because i can't pull it off on my own.
People like TEST or the goons could do it much better and once it became standard, it'll be more easy for everybody to do it. I'm also sure there are lots of people out there who are perfectly suited for this kind of thing. Sadly, i am not.
So ... as the effect of my weed slowly volatilises ...
What am i actually talking about ?
I'm talking about New Players (tm). I'm talking about the *fact* that it's the New Players that shape the future game.
I'm also talking about the *fact* that A LOT of New Players start their game through mining or running missions and then sticking to it, because that's the first thing they've done.
There is no argument of "Let him do what he wants do to" here, because he has no idea what he could do!
To change the direction of the game, we have to be actively involved in starter corps and play with noobs the way they should be, instead of running missions or mining.
As example of what I've done: (yes, i've done my share :p)
Those noobs who joined me on ganking roams as scanners/looters needed SP of less than a single day. They learned more about the game in an hour than mining or running missions could teach them in a month, including situational awareness, predicting distances, reactivity and others.
It was hard work for them, but even a 30 Million ISK gank gave them the feeling they've achieved something and actually worked for it.
(the money of these ganks went to the these guys, depending on their age/experience)
Then there was this carebear corp i wardecced. I had a talk with their CEO and encouraged him to talk to his people about it and actually try and fight. We had a lot of fun and i even got fanmails! :D
The whole point i'm trying to make is that, if you keep letting carebears help new players take first steps into the game ("go mining", "run missions", "avoid lowsec", etc.), then
YOU WILL GET EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE AFRAID OF !
I call out Tippia (as trustworthy source) to confirm that there are indeed carebears in starter corps ... ... ruining the new players right from the get-go ... ... which she, quite fittingly, called "griefers".
1407 Characters remaining. :)
I can't even imagine the responses to this, if anybody actually read through it. (hahahahaha XD) I've come to realise that it's totally irrelevant what the public says or doesn't, as long as i have tried. I am trying ... and i predict failure, but that's not only my fault then.
The are the wrong people influencing new players. I've seen massive carebear noob corps, made by noobs, pretending to teach others. I've seen Pro Synergy ... a huge corp full of noobs who want to make money by salvaging/looting missions. (legally)
I see corps pretending to teach others, totally ignoring any aspects of ship combat or anything related to PvP, besides the market.
Anyhow ... to come to an end.
I have tried. I can only do so much. Those who i have influenced, i have influenced in a way the (still) majority of EvE players would approve of. Everybody else can be found complaining about it in this very thread. :)
If you want to shape the game, start a war about new players.
You might win the game. :) |

Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
37
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
6000 Characters ... are a lie.
Even at 5980 i had to reduce the post. -.-
Flame away \o/ |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
154
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
TL; DR. |

Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
37
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:TL; DR. TL;DR: You're killing the game. |

KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
734
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
People gonna do what people wanna do, yo.
Sorry to give such a simplified answer to such a monster post, but Im le tired. |

Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1882
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Before I read this, I would just like to say... You accidentally the paragraph structure. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
154
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:TL; DR. TL;DR: You're killing the game. Excellent. Thank you OP. A far better post than a wrecking shot for 6000 characters. |

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3572
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
EVE is dying (again) thread detected.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |

stoicfaux
3138
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
tl;dr First impressions are important. If New Players sole first experience is mining and/or mission running then they will be carebears for life. There are experienced carebears in newbie corps that reinforce this first impression and thus are bad people for disincentivizing newbies from playing EVE as a PvP game. CCP needs better control of their New Player experience.
/google's_weed2reality_translator |

KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
734
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:EVE is dying (again) thread detected.
I saw Doc Fury had the last post and instantly assumed this was somehow in the wrong forum. |

Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:CCP needs better control of their New Player experience. No !
It's the PLAYERS who have responsibility here, not CCP ! |

Diablo Ex
Lilith's Shadow
218
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
The direction that CCP is going with the game doesn't concern me nearly as much as the direction the Players are going with the Player Driven Content.
The major issues in the game are caused by the Player base. Most games of this sort have a foundation struggle of "Good vs Evil", but the players have drifted so far into the "Immoral" direction that it's like playing a game of "Bad Pirate vs Worse Pirate" and the "Good Guys" are all but defenseless. Personally I call it the "Grand Theft Auto" mentality.
It is destructive, childish, and will eventually destroy the game for many people.
Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem" |

Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1518
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Haters 'gon hate!
Don't ban me, bro! |

KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
736
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
Diablo Ex wrote:The direction that CCP is going with the game doesn't concern me nearly as much as the direction the Players are going with the Player Driven Content.
The major issues in the game are caused by the Player base. Most games of this sort have a foundation struggle of "Good vs Evil", but the players have drifted so far into the "Immoral" direction that it's like playing a game of "Bad Pirate vs Worse Pirate" and the "Good Guys" are all but defenseless. Personally I call it the "Grand Theft Auto" mentality.
It is destructive, childish, and will eventually destroy the game for many people.
So you basically just said you want EVE to be more Good VS Evil like all these other games you mentioned.
Sure, lets destroy EVEs uniqueness! That always works well for niche games! |

Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Diablo Ex wrote:The direction that CCP is going with the game doesn't concern me nearly as much as the direction the Players are going with the Player Driven Content.
The major issues in the game are caused by the Player base. Most games of this sort have a foundation struggle of "Good vs Evil", but the players have drifted so far into the "Immoral" direction that it's like playing a game of "Bad Pirate vs Worse Pirate" and the "Good Guys" are all but defenseless. Personally I call it the "Grand Theft Auto" mentality.
It is destructive, childish, and will eventually destroy the game for many people.
You are a part of the issue and not related to a solution.
Nobody in this game is defenseless per se. |

stoicfaux
3140
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:stoicfaux wrote:CCP needs better control of their New Player experience. No ! It's the PLAYERS who have responsibility here, not CCP ! I think history has shown how difficult it is to rely on the Players to do anything positive. At one end, there's herding cats, at the other end, there's ganking the crazy cat lady and then eating her cats alive, one by one, in front of her. EVE players tend to be closer to the latter. |

Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Solstice Project's Alt wrote:stoicfaux wrote:CCP needs better control of their New Player experience. No ! It's the PLAYERS who have responsibility here, not CCP ! I think history has shown how difficult it is to rely on the Players to do anything positive. At one end, there's herding cats, at the other end, there's ganking the crazy cat lady and then eating her cats alive, one by one, in front of her. EVE players tend to be closer to the latter. I fail to see how this related to what i was saying. You seem to be generalizing way too much. |

KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
739
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:Diablo Ex wrote:The direction that CCP is going with the game doesn't concern me nearly as much as the direction the Players are going with the Player Driven Content.
The major issues in the game are caused by the Player base. Most games of this sort have a foundation struggle of "Good vs Evil", but the players have drifted so far into the "Immoral" direction that it's like playing a game of "Bad Pirate vs Worse Pirate" and the "Good Guys" are all but defenseless. Personally I call it the "Grand Theft Auto" mentality.
It is destructive, childish, and will eventually destroy the game for many people.
You are a part of the issue and not related to a solution. Nobody in this game is defenseless per se.
Actually, EVE has a balance.
There need to be players like him that think the game is too evil.
Otherwise you wouldnt have people to harvest good tears from at your end of the spectrum.
One group of people tugging for a more safer and friendlier game and the other side tugging for a more free and harsher game is exactly what keeps the game in its current ballance.
And both sides will always say that the game is tugging in the opposite direction they want. ;) |

Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
there are plenty of players drawn to eve by the ganking, and there are always questions in rookie help about being the bad guy.
Pro-Synergy is, in my opinion, a good way for newbies (and some alts of bitter vets that I know of) to get isk fairly fast while learning other things.
You are omitting one thing in your analysis, you need there to be a steady supply of carebears, otherwise you will end up ganking other gankers who will gank you back and then who would get the salvage and stuff to build your ships to throw at concord? |

stoicfaux
3140
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Solstice Project's Alt wrote:stoicfaux wrote:CCP needs better control of their New Player experience. No ! It's the PLAYERS who have responsibility here, not CCP ! I think history has shown how difficult it is to rely on the Players to do anything positive. At one end, there's herding cats, at the other end, there's ganking the crazy cat lady and then eating her cats alive, one by one, in front of her. EVE players tend to be closer to the latter. I fail to see how this related to what i was saying. You seem to be generalizing way too much. Or now that you're sobering up, you need to realize that your High Self and your Sober Self don't agree on much. Your High Self and I think your Sober Self is wrong about your opinion of us.
|

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
965
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Perhaps I shouldn't have skimmed, but I came away with:
"declare war on new players in general"
Getting right on it. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:there are plenty of players drawn to eve by the ganking, and there are always questions in rookie help about being the bad guy.
Pro-Synergy is, in my opinion, a good way for newbies (and some alts of bitter vets that I know of) to get isk fairly fast while learning other things.
You are omitting one thing in your analysis, you need there to be a steady supply of carebears, otherwise you will end up ganking other gankers who will gank you back and then who would get the salvage and stuff to build your ships to throw at concord? You know what would happen if every miner left the game ?
Nothing. As soon as others realise that there are no miners left, they will create mining alts, to mine.
No ?
I have nothing personally against Pro Synergy. I had a few talks with their CEO. I was pointing it out to show that there's an inbalance in who forms new players. |

Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Perhaps I shouldn't have skimmed, but I came away with:
"declare war on new players in general"
Getting right on it. HAHAHAHAHA THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID !!! :D |

KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
739
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Solstice Project's Alt wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Solstice Project's Alt wrote:stoicfaux wrote:CCP needs better control of their New Player experience. No ! It's the PLAYERS who have responsibility here, not CCP ! I think history has shown how difficult it is to rely on the Players to do anything positive. At one end, there's herding cats, at the other end, there's ganking the crazy cat lady and then eating her cats alive, one by one, in front of her. EVE players tend to be closer to the latter. I fail to see how this related to what i was saying. You seem to be generalizing way too much. Or now that you're sobering up, you need to realize that your High Self and your Sober Self don't agree on much. Your High Self and I think your Sober Self is wrong about your opinion of us.
MoTherFuckiN MiRaCles. :0) |

Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
There might be a confusion about "carebears".
Being a carebear has less to do with what he does, and more with how he thinks. |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
46919
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Folks who come to EVE for PvP will try to Level V as many PvP skills as possible, and it takes years.
Folks who come to EVE for PvE, Mining, and Manufacturing will try to Level V as many of those relevant skills as possible.
Only after almost 4 years of SP Training would I now be adequately trained myself to show new players all sides of all aspects of the game.
But now I'm too busy in game to even want to bother 'showing newbies all of EVE'. There just isn't going to be that many qualified players to do this kind of thing.
Give the new players some credit for making their own decisions about how to play this game.
It's always been the way it is, and there is absolutely no shortage of any kind of playstyle within EVE. At all.
There is no 'problem' here.
Maybe your herbage magnified the issue in your mind. It can do that to me as well. Why do bikers wear leather ??-á Because chiffon wrinkles too easily.-á -- Paul Lynde |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
965
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quote:Maybe your herbage magnified the issue in your mind. It can do that to me as well.
When someone said they should go to W-space, he misunderstood... Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
126
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 20:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
OP = Creative Writing Assignment
Topic:
Fear and Loathing in New Eden
Instructions:
- in 6000 words or less do your best to emulate the writing style of Hunter S. Thompson while commenting on a niche-culture active in 2013.
....
Grade B+
|

manutari
Pirate Manufacturing and Supply Services Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 21:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Diablo Ex wrote:The direction that CCP is going with the game doesn't concern me nearly as much as the direction the Players are going with the Player Driven Content.
The major issues in the game are caused by the Player base. Most games of this sort have a foundation struggle of "Good vs Evil", but the players have drifted so far into the "Immoral" direction that it's like playing a game of "Bad Pirate vs Worse Pirate" and the "Good Guys" are all but defenseless. Personally I call it the "Grand Theft Auto" mentality.
It is destructive, childish, and will eventually destroy the game for many people.
I spent a good part of the game being the "good guys" living in high sec mining and doing missions; not because it was enjoyable but because it's all I knew. I hated missioning and i refuse to do it now. Fact, I was about to quite the game if it wasnt for the pirate life. So, if anything, I think this is a good realm to focus on, and not a realm that will cause destruction, nor is it childish.
nobody makes the "good guys" go to lowsec and get stuck in a battle of "bad pirate v. worse pirate". |

Solstice Project's Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
38
|
Posted - 2013.09.23 21:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Diomedes Calypso wrote:OP = Creative Writing Assignment
Topic:
Fear and Loathing in New Eden
Instructions:
- in 6000 words or less do your best to emulate the writing style of Hunter S. Thompson while commenting on a niche-culture active in 2013.
....
Grade B+
Who ?
edit: you know, people keep pointing out that i write like some other people and i never understand why this happens ... i'll google him. |
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