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ErrorS
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Posted - 2006.01.18 04:14:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: keepiru
You might have an SLi machine, but eve uses zilch of that power, pretty much. Its nearly all done on the cpu. It will look, in fact, exactly the same as it does on my X850XT, which is exactly the same as it looks on my Fx5600Go laptop.
Thats one of the things that theyre working on: actually offloading (some) of the graphics onto the videocard. Soon as you do that you can do envirmental lighting, shine maps, bump maps and whatnot on hardware T&L, but even just the current effect on HT&L should look a hell of a lot purdyer.
The other thing is up to the art department. Specifially, some of the models & textures from the early days of the game are shameful compared to the stuff thats being thrown out, and so are the model bugs and the missing engine flames. They look cheap as a hong-kong bootleg with people standing up in the middle of the movie.
Eve uses plenty of a videocard. "Current effects of T&L"? are you SURE Eve doesn't use hardware T&L? I can't say for sure myself.. but i'm pretty sure it does.
all nearly done on that CPU, right. Have you done comparison benches from one card to another? I average 80fps in 1280x960 with 6x adaptive FSAA and 16xAF on my X1800XL, that includes complexes. Similer settings on even a 6800U (not that it does transparency FSAA) might have trouble keeping at 60FPS (fleet battles, complexes.. ignore the other stuff). Don't run an SLI or Crossfire rig but I'd assume you can't do much with them.. maybe turn LOD off or something? that is, if either brand works with sli/crossfire in Eve Online.
I don't know why people say Eve is CPU bound. It WAS a while ago, it is when not running FSAA on highend cards.. takes a 6800/x800 to guarantee 60fps at all times, a 7800/x1800 to guarantee 60fps with high FSAA and AF. Fleet battles have always been rough but I'd assume that is an engine limitation.. complexes on the other hand? I'd like to see someone here say they get 60fps in all complexes with maxed FSAA and AF on any card less than a 7800GT.
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
ErrorS
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Posted - 2006.01.18 04:22:00 -
[32]
Edited by: ErrorS on 18/01/2006 04:23:01
Originally by: j0sephine
"Eve's graphic rendering engine is primarily software and CPU based, with software shaders and similar obsolete technology - well behind modern architecture. it's part of why framerates are as ropey as they are."
That's inaccurate, as far as i can tell.
EVE "shaders" are simple configurations of blending modes for texturing units and similar 'old school' rendering methods, which nowaday's graphics cards convert into their internal shaders for full speed processing, never breaking the stride. In similar manner there's no CPU-based rendering -- about the only area where this could apply is skeletal animation, and EVE doesn't use it for anything (having game with nothing but rigid mechanical structures has sometimes nice side-advantages like that)
And finally, i doubt current performance can be blamed on old rendering approach, when that particular code was tailored for cards 2-3 generations older... and it did work on them at acceptable framerates. Nor should there be expectations for something significantly more robust -- there's no performance gain to expect where switching to more complicated shaders will only add more workload for the card to process, not remove it. Such is the price of more eye candy, as X-3: Reunion easily shows.
Now, there's definitely quite a lot of room for optimization when it comes to way EVE handles the graphics, but that's another story. And not really my business to try to tell the devs how they should go about it, when it's them that sit there with access to source code, and i can at best guess from the end effects, how things tick under that hood. ^^;;
ugh, finally someone who knows a bit more than myself about this kinda stuff. It bothers me when I read people saying "Eve is CPU bound!" but I don't have enough knowledge on the subject to go into the kind of detail you just did (as you could see in my other post). All I know is what I learn from experience (and a bit of reading).
I swear this all started "Eve is CPU bound!" when Anandtech said it in one of his reviews. He was talking about pre-coldwar Eve on highend cards of the time. I'm guessing he didn't try any fleet battles and this was before complexes (which can be taxing). Things have changed a bit since then..
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Cypherous
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Posted - 2006.01.18 09:13:00 -
[33]
I have a sempron 3000 (64-bit) a gig of ram and a 256mb gfx, i still tone down the effects because i like eve to run fast not to be uber eye candy.
Also nuking the sound will help you a lot :)
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2006.01.18 09:29:00 -
[34]
Just updating some of the ship models/textures would be cool enough.
And as much as colourful systems look sweet, the odd system with just endless black space and thousands of stars would be rather sweet.
-
- The fire burns..
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SengH
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Posted - 2006.01.18 09:30:00 -
[35]
Edited by: SengH on 18/01/2006 09:30:11
I SWEAR I SHOULD ******* STICK THIS IN MY SIG... THIS HAS TO BE THE 50TH TIME IVE REPOSTED THIS.
PLEASE READ THROUGH THIS PRESENTATION ABOUT EVE'S CURRENT RENDERING PIPELINE BEFORE COMMENTING AND MAKING YOURSELF LOOK STUPID.
Oh yeah and it talks about the future of EVEs graphics too in part 2.
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Biosman
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Posted - 2006.01.18 10:59:00 -
[36]
the video clips of interplanetary stuff made were cool,but with the way puters are these days bumping up the moon textures from 256x256 to 512x512 adding more graphical detail would be acceptable.
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Delusion 'Fel
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Posted - 2006.01.18 11:24:00 -
[37]
im happy with the GFX as they are tbh.... they look good and run ok on my home system which isnt really up to much these days.
Part of the reason i love eve so much is because its one of the few games where the only lag i really experience is still only down to being in stupidly busy areas...
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Lisa Payne
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Posted - 2006.01.18 11:49:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Lisa Payne on 18/01/2006 11:49:12
I would like to see more intelligent use of CPU cycles,
example why does the FPS shoot trough the roof when your docked in a station?
strictly speaking you dont need 70 fps when docked :)
Amarr stations draw very badly, they blink and slow down the fps considerably..
i am sure we can come up with other examples..
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2006.01.18 12:10:00 -
[39]
There's no point updating the graphics if you still have to zoom right out every time you get into a fight.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Lo3d3R
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Posted - 2006.01.18 12:13:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Caligus
Don't get me wrong, this game is gorgeous! But it's age is starting to show - for instance, the low res textures inside the space stations are culled and blurred so that the game could perform well on computers built 3-4 years ago. I think it would be wonderful to see the art and design team go in and touch up the game and add some high resolution textures.
Just a thought. 
agreed.
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Lo3d3R
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Posted - 2006.01.18 12:19:00 -
[41]
Originally by: theRaptor
Originally by: My grandfather
Originally by: Montague Zooma
I don't care much about eye candy. It's all about the gameplay in my book. Eve's graphics look great as is, I just wish they were better optimized to take advantage of video processors rather rely so much on the CPU.
Fancy textures aren't going to help me win any battles...but they can contribute to my losses if they cause my PC to bog down.
Eye candy isn't my top priority either. I dont get that high of a frame-rate is it is. Gameplay should always come first.
A few extra options would be nice though. Hi-res textures would be da bomb. Maybe some new effects, like updated graphics for gates and such. As long as you can turn them off for slower computers ofc 
You mean fleet battles. Seriously CCP need an option that turns off all eye candy. When you get a few hundred ships together even the best comp starts to crawl.
fleet battles isnt all about the eye candy its network traffic particles, the server needs to know every cośrdinate of 100 players in a dynamic envirement and then send it to 100 players updating every other 0.00x m/s ?, so theres your lag.
0/
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Suze'Rain
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Posted - 2006.01.18 12:32:00 -
[42]
Originally by: j0sephine
"Eve's graphic rendering engine is primarily blah....
That's inaccurate, as far as i can tell.
Not "inaccurate" at all.
complete and utter bull****, more like. I seem to have got a sleep-addled brain completely on the wrong tracks, and was talking about a different bit of software, I think.
Please excuse my talking out my own arse on what was running through my brain.
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ErrorS
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:20:00 -
[43]
Originally by: SengH
Edited by: SengH on 18/01/2006 09:30:11
I SWEAR I SHOULD ******* STICK THIS IN MY SIG... THIS HAS TO BE THE 50TH TIME IVE REPOSTED THIS.
PLEASE READ THROUGH THIS PRESENTATION ABOUT EVE'S CURRENT RENDERING PIPELINE BEFORE COMMENTING AND MAKING YOURSELF LOOK STUPID.
Oh yeah and it talks about the future of EVEs graphics too in part 2.
cool, thanks for posting that :D
i hadn't seen that before.. now i'm excited
________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Mimio
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Posted - 2006.01.18 16:59:00 -
[44]
If Eve will not run at my notebook dueto lacking video or CPU I will stop subscription immediately. Period.
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Asane
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Posted - 2006.01.18 17:12:00 -
[45]
When DX10 comes...
(http://www.microsoft.com/windows/directx/default.aspx)
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Noveron
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Posted - 2006.01.18 17:19:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Noveron on 18/01/2006 17:20:20
Fact is, with RMR the client has lower fps... Perfomance has decreased compared to Cold War and it is not because they upgraded graphics. (With better graphics card I get same fps, maybe could even be worse).
They need to fix the current issues first and then sometime in the future they will know when to update the graphics..
Nowadays everyone, even with crappy graphic cards can play EVE... upgrading graphics or technology used may prove harder to play to people with older computers.
Im sure CCP will find a fine approach on this issue later on when RMR is fully fixed on main problems it had since its deployment.
Go Go CCP.
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2006.01.18 17:20:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Asane
When DX10 comes...
(http://www.microsoft.com/windows/directx/default.aspx)
Um, am I hallucinating or has CCP got an EVE advert on Micorsoft's website. 
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2006.01.18 17:24:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Harisdrop on 18/01/2006 17:25:53
I want better fonts. Could they also upgrade thier voice com's. I think a British chick speaking in my ear would rock.
Could they add new cloud backgrounds. The black screen is soo boring.
--------------------------
Qoute:
The single reason I even decided to give this game a shot was because of reading a post by a n00b crying about being ganked and losing everything. I just had to try |
Erzengal
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Posted - 2006.01.18 17:29:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Originally by: Asane
When DX10 comes...
(http://www.microsoft.com/windows/directx/default.aspx)
Um, am I hallucinating or has CCP got an EVE advert on Micorsoft's website.
They've had an AD on their site for a while now. 
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2006.01.18 17:37:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Erzengal
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Originally by: Asane
When DX10 comes...
(http://www.microsoft.com/windows/directx/default.aspx)
Um, am I hallucinating or has CCP got an EVE advert on Micorsoft's website.
They've had an AD on their site for a while now.
Like 2003 !!!! EVE is in bed with microsoft. There where times when they made us download beta direct X cause the Microsoft site was not updated after a patch.
--------------------------
I have big balls of Plasma coming out of my guns. |
13th
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Posted - 2006.01.18 17:52:00 -
[51]
I would love a graphics update.
Performance-wise, Eve should not face that kind of performance hit due to the graphics when in large combat situations. Graphics cards should have more than enough power to pump out what we are seeing. I don't know if it is a problem with stackless python & directx, or if it is the current graphics engine not scaling up efficiently.
Visual-wise, current gen cards are capable of so much more than what was cutting edge when Eve was released. Look at http://www.fl-tw.com/Infinity/, look at Nexus, look at X3. Eve's graphics are still nice, but there is plenty of room for improvement with the past few generations of graphics cards.
If anyone has seen the latest episode of Battlestar Galactica with the fight between the battlestars and the basestars, that is my opinion of what Eve should look like with the latest generation of cpu and gpus.
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Mimio
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Posted - 2006.01.18 18:37:00 -
[52]
For some reason I must use notebook for Eve. And I will never buy notebook with powerful graphic card(imo, notebook must be really mobile, not moveable).As result I could play Eve only with embedded graphical cards. Simple. I suppose that number of people playing Eve on notebooks is solid enough to to underestimate possible financial loss if less powerful video will be not supported totally.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.01.18 21:31:00 -
[53]
j0sephine comes in a close second only to Weirda as being a thread killer.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Montague Zooma
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Posted - 2006.01.18 22:14:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Noveron
Edited by: Noveron on 18/01/2006 17:20:20
Fact is, with RMR the client has lower fps... Perfomance has decreased compared to Cold War and it is not because they upgraded graphics. (With better graphics card I get same fps, maybe could even be worse).
How did you arrive at this conclusion? If you're basing it on the in game FPS meter, then disregard it. One of the devs mentioned the FPS measurement was botched in the RMR update and shows lower FPS than what we're actually getting.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
One noob. One corp. One complete waste of 1.6 million isk. |
Gorion Wassenar
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Posted - 2006.01.18 22:44:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
I still think the person who designed the Griffin's sideway-firing thrusters needs to fix his mistake and apologize.
I just pretend its a sythey, beam choppy thing. It still looks awful. Maybye they can enocde it so they only fire when your turning?
------------------
CEO of TKI
Public Channel: TKI-Net
http://s14.invisionfree.com/Tsurokigaarai/index.php?act=idxTKI Forum[/url |
Ominus Decre
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Posted - 2006.01.18 22:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: ErrorS
Originally by: keepiru
You might have an SLi machine, but eve uses zilch of that power, pretty much. Its nearly all done on the cpu. It will look, in fact, exactly the same as it does on my X850XT, which is exactly the same as it looks on my Fx5600Go laptop.
Thats one of the things that theyre working on: actually offloading (some) of the graphics onto the videocard. Soon as you do that you can do envirmental lighting, shine maps, bump maps and whatnot on hardware T&L, but even just the current effect on HT&L should look a hell of a lot purdyer.
The other thing is up to the art department. Specifially, some of the models & textures from the early days of the game are shameful compared to the stuff thats being thrown out, and so are the model bugs and the missing engine flames. They look cheap as a hong-kong bootleg with people standing up in the middle of the movie.
Eve uses plenty of a videocard. "Current effects of T&L"? are you SURE Eve doesn't use hardware T&L? I can't say for sure myself.. but i'm pretty sure it does.
all nearly done on that CPU, right. Have you done comparison benches from one card to another? I average 80fps in 1280x960 with 6x adaptive FSAA and 16xAF on my X1800XL, that includes complexes. Similer settings on even a 6800U (not that it does transparency FSAA) might have trouble keeping at 60FPS (fleet battles, complexes.. ignore the other stuff). Don't run an SLI or Crossfire rig but I'd assume you can't do much with them.. maybe turn LOD off or something? that is, if either brand works with sli/crossfire in Eve Online.
I don't know why people say Eve is CPU bound. It WAS a while ago, it is when not running FSAA on highend cards.. takes a 6800/x800 to guarantee 60fps at all times, a 7800/x1800 to guarantee 60fps with high FSAA and AF. Fleet battles have always been rough but I'd assume that is an engine limitation.. complexes on the other hand? I'd like to see someone here say they get 60fps in all complexes with maxed FSAA and AF on any card less than a 7800GT.
*First off, I am not a professional*
I am using an p4 2.8 prescott, 2x1 gb ddr400 dual channel and x850pro (only 12 pipes).
I run an average 35-60 fps throughout the game. In a station I'll hit upwards of 70fps.
The x850pro is a 256mb card that clocks in at 500mhz core and 500mhz memory, also known as 500/1000. I can push, via oc, my gfx card to 570/1250 with very little improvement in EVE's abiilty to draw graphics. I would say the most EVE yeilds from this type of oc is about 4-5 fps on average.
3dmark03 will net me a 11800 rating on my system; not that means anything.
there's been numerous posts referencing CCP's claims that EVE Online is CPU intensive. I would think clocking my gfx card from 500/1000 to 570/1250 would yeild a little more then 4-5 fps and even then, sometimes there's no obvious improvement in the client abillity to draw.
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MOS DEF
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Posted - 2006.01.18 23:03:00 -
[57]
Couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread to see if it's mentioned but according to the replies i read it wasn't: The devs showed a graphical updated client allready. I think it was on the fanfest. Better lightning and Shader 3.0 usage i believe. The pics i saw look very nice. I think there's a video of that floatign around too.
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Ominus Decre
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Posted - 2006.01.18 23:41:00 -
[58]
Originally by: 13th
If anyone has seen the latest episode of Battlestar Galactica with the fight between the battlestars and the basestars, that is my opinion of what Eve should look like with the latest generation of cpu and gpus.
mY GOD!!! Those sequences were breathtaking! I long for the ability to activate ingame rendering options when I'm wanting vividly rich graphics. Episode 12 of Season 2 was awesome!!
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Mikha'il Pelegius
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Posted - 2006.01.19 00:34:00 -
[59]
Quote:
mY GOD!!! Those sequences were breathtaking! I long for the ability to activate ingame rendering options when I'm wanting vividly rich graphics. Episode 12 of Season 2 was awesome!!
http://img.hexus.net/v2/gaming/screenshots/x3_reunion/x3_reunion_large_3.jpg
http://img.hexus.net/v2/gaming/screenshots/x3_reunion/x3_reunion_large_5.jpg
That is what I want EVE to look like. As visually breathtaking as X3 in-game graphics.
----------------------
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.01.19 01:34:00 -
[60]
Edited by: j0sephine on 19/01/2006 01:35:27
"http://img.hexus.net/v2/gaming/screenshots/x3_reunion/x3_reunion_large_3.jpg
http://img.hexus.net/v2/gaming/screenshots/x3_reunion/x3_reunion_large_5.jpg
That is what I want EVE to look like. As visually breathtaking as X3 in-game graphics."
The planets (and to some degree starfields) in X3 are excellent looking, but i'd definitely pass on the plastic ships... there's lot of things involved in emulating metal look, and X3 unlike EVE appears to skips them... even though one is few year older than the other. >>;
(suspect it's mostly the result of graphics artist being able to smack the programmer around and tell them exactly what sort of things they need, in order to get things look right)
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