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Sticky:New dev blog: Hybrid weapon and Tech II ammo balancing

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Lekgoa Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 0	Posted - 2011.11.01 19:52:00 - [1] - Quote Enyo with neutrons + NULL: 212 gun dps @ 4.2+3.9 Wolf with 200's + HAIL: 286 gun dps @ 0.8+9 It's the same story across all gun sizes. With these changes, Minmatar's close-range high-dps ammo outranges Gallente's long-range low-dps ammo. Matari ships are still significantly faster than their Gallente counterparts (Wolf 987 m/s, Enyo around 900 m/s post-patch). Having flown exclusively Gallente since I started this game 18 months ago, I'm comfortable saying that this is a HUGE problem. The tracking and fitting buffs are great, but they don't address the key issue of range. My suggestion: you're buffing T2 ammo anyway. BUFF NULL AND VOID. Null should outrange Hail by a decent margin if you want any sort of balance. Give it +50% optimal and falloff. That won't be op simply because Null's damage is pretty mediocre. Void is point-blank-range ammo, so it should have a bit more dps (10%) and better tracking (10-15% penalty rather than 25%). The effect: blaster boats dominate at close range and aren't completely impotent at mid ranges. This still wouldn't be an insta-win button because the hulls are still pretty slow, allowing other ships to pull out of Void range. I honestly think hybrids, Gallente hulls, and armor tanking in general could all use a serious overhaul. Barring that, ammo changes seem like the simplest and most effective solution. And gimme my T2 drone mods!
Lekgoa Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 3	Posted - 2011.11.02 19:41:00 - [2] - Quote Tiger's Spirit wrote: Lekgoa wrote: Enyo with neutrons + NULL: 212 gun dps @ 4.2+3.9 Wolf with 200's + HAIL: 286 gun dps @ 0.8+9 It's the same story across all gun sizes. With these changes, Minmatar's close-range high-dps ammo outranges Gallente's long-range low-dps ammo. Matari ships are still significantly faster than their Gallente counterparts (Wolf 987 m/s, Enyo around 900 m/s post-patch). etc etc etc Man, null vs hail ??? Maybe you need to compare void vs hail. Null vs barrage. Do not create false comparison with other type ammos. Enyo with neutrons + void + overheat 312dps+20dps from drone=332 dps Wolf with 200's + HAIL+overheat: 286 gun dps (with your numbers) but just that 240 without overheat with one gyro and full lvl5 skill More one thing, with overheat the Wolf's damage is just 276 and not 286dps. etc etc etc Train Reading Comprehension to 4 and reread my post. The point was that with no falloff penalty Hail hits farther than Null, which is just plain silly. As for my numbers, they use 4 guns + 1 damage mod + 2 damage rigs on both ships. Both are cold dps.
Lekgoa Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 3	Posted - 2011.11.02 23:53:00 - [3] - Quote Zarnak Wulf wrote: The wolf is a weird boat with two direct damage bonuses as well as a falloff bonus. The enyo SHOULD have two damage bonuses as well to compete, but only has one. I started a thread to nerf Minmatar so don't read this the wrong way but this isn't the best ship to do an example off of. That's fair. Even without bonuses though, autos with RF EMP (or Hail w/o falloff penalty) outrange similarly-sized blasters with Null. I don't want blasters to be able to hit out to Barrage range, but their long-range ammo should at least outrange autos' short-range ammo.
Lekgoa Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 4	Posted - 2011.11.05 15:56:00 - [4] - Quote Wow, I was really looking forward to Gallente having a USEFUL bc. Honestly, with the Talos gone (yes, gone, w/o drones or web bonus there's no reason for it to exist) this Gallente "buff" isn't going to benefit anything larger than a frigate. Looks like my ship lineup will still just be frigs, vexor, proteus, and domi. @CCP: DO SOMETHING USEFUL.
Lekgoa Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 4	Posted - 2011.11.05 16:35:00 - [5] - Quote If you don't want to make Gallente the fastest, make them the most agile by a good margin, allowing them to close range quickly and making maneuvers like the Crazy Ivan more practical. As mentioned above, it's silly for one race to be both fast and agile, both from a physics perspective and a gameplay perspective.
Lekgoa Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 4	Posted - 2011.11.06 14:32:00 - [6] - Quote I donGÇÖt use rails, but hereGÇÖs my two isk on the blaster issue: Blasters will never be good for fleets, but they're already pretty good for solo and small gang work, as long as you have a good warp-in. The tracking buff will certainly help applying damage at close range, but it doesnGÇÖt help with getting into range. Neither do the minor speed and agility buffs; letGÇÖs not kid ourselves. A major change in the hulls is necessary. Right now, Minmatar has a huge advantage in both speed and agility, which just doesnGÇÖt work. Option 1: Make Gallente the fastest; Minmatar stays the most agile. Effect: Gallente as juggernauts with good straight-line speed but low acceleration. Minmatar as sprinters that can outmaneuver other races. Option 2: Gallente most agile by far, Minmatar fastest. Effect: Gallente can close range quickly, Minmatar can still outrun them over time. The obvious problem with Option 1 is that blaster boats would always be able to get into range, and with their superior dps and tank they could just overpower Minmatar ships. Option 2 therefore makes more sense: Gallente has the speed advantage early in the fight and can pull off Crazy Ivans more easily but isnGÇÖt always guaranteed to get into range. It makes sense logically too. Turn radius should be determined by speed and structural integrity (i.e. how fast can you turn without ripping your ship in half). Minmatar ships, with high top speeds and hulls held together by duct tape, should not be able to outmaneuver Gallente ships, which have medium speed and the best hulls in the game. tl;dr: Gallente should be the most agile race by a decent margin.
Lekgoa Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 8	Posted - 2011.11.07 17:14:00 - [7] - Quote Another idea: Every hybrid platform gets +30% to all overload bonuses (role bonus, like ceptors' scram/web cap bonus). That gives a bit more speed, damage, web/scram range, and rep amount for 1 or 2 minutes, at the risk of burning out your mods. It would benefit Gallente the most, but Caldari wouldn't be left out. Yes, it involves a big change to the hulls, but I think everyone pretty much agrees that that's necessary. Of course, it would also boost ac damage if you chose to put them on a hybrid ship, but since it would be easier to get into blaster range there'd be more incentive to fit hybrids over projectiles.
Lekgoa Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 8	Posted - 2011.11.09 00:41:00 - [8] - Quote YES 5 second reload time. These improvements aren't gonna fix hybrid boats as a whole, but they'll be a great little boost for the ones that are already flyable. I'm still crossing my fingers for improvements to Null and Void, which would really let us take advantage of the quicker reload.
Lekgoa Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 8	Posted - 2011.11.09 17:09:00 - [9] - Quote Phoenix Torp wrote: Keen Fallsword wrote: Problem is in HAC's and BC's and this lvl need to be boosted. Brutix is sucker Myrm is very Good with AC's :) Don't forget BS. I haven't got Gallente BS to V for nothing... I think the biggest buff Gallente BS could get would be making the domi look cooler. Then people would actually fly it and realize it's one of the best T1 BS hulls in the game. Certainly on par with the phoon for cost-effectiveness.
Lekgoa Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 8	Posted - 2011.11.09 17:33:00 - [10] - Quote The domi is certainly the best T1 PvE ship, but I was talking more about PvP. It can function as a dual web mega with better damage projection or a 475dps/161k ehp curse or guardian, and if you get 3 hospital domis with cap transfers good luck breaking whatever it is they're repping. That being said, I fly solo or in small gangs and rarely see over 40 ships in an engagement. I know the Gallente BS line blows for bigger fleet fights.

Lekgoa Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 8	Posted - 2011.11.10 22:15:00 - [11] - Quote Moved to appropriate forum.

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