| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Queen Rachok
   |
Posted - 2006.01.19 10:35:00 -
[31]
The reason people dont pay is:
1. Paying ransom will cause more ransom (succes will result in repeating)
2. You NEVER have the guarantee that you will live.
|
Nahia Senne
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 13:48:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Queen Rachok
The reason people dont pay is:
1. Paying ransom will cause more ransom (succes will result in repeating)
2. You NEVER have the guarantee that you will live.
1. You will be attacked regardless. Paying ransoms will only cause more attempts to ransom before they decide to kill you.
2. You have rather high guarantee that you will live. And if you die due to being late on your payment, most pirates will actually send you your isk back.
|
Iberi
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 14:58:00 -
[33]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
If your clever enough, I suggest Checking out out Forums and Killboard.
Oh, no! I can't believe. KORKY is attacking Apoc! May be you have been dreaming?
Most dangerous target you could attack is unarmed Probe.
|
randy andy
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 15:25:00 -
[34]
Edited by: randy andy on 19/01/2006 15:27:39
well i dont pay ransoms for a few reasons
1 it upsets pirates which is good
2 i can replace my ship and mods quite easy
3 i have 6-10 mill profit at the end to make up for the trouble
4 i get most of the mins from recycleing poor npc rats loot so not a lot of mining if any
if i have any good mods or implants then i have got them from rats/missions/agent offers so dont to hard to replace
now if you claimed a system which i would like to mine or rat hunt then
if i am mining and you said this is my/our system and you have to pay 1 refine of the best ore in belt per 30 mins and we/i/pirate will kill the npc rats so you can mine
i would probably say ok/yes pls
if i did not then you can blow up the barge or what ship i was using and/or pod me as well
so basicly i am saying you can kill me and get the rat loot gear that i use and i ended with isk in the bank or you can work with me and i pay you in ore or loot if i rat hunt so pls yourself at the end of the day..
|
Grimwalius d'Antan
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 15:45:00 -
[35]
Interesting turn of events. People wrongfully assume that pirates are in it for the griefing of players who puts effort into mining and minding their own business. At the same time, everyone who says they don't pay ransoms admits to be doing so with the intent to **** off the pirates that actually makes the effort of attempting a ransom instead of just looting and forgetting. If anything, THAT IS GRIEFING. Attacking someone with the intent to shake money from them or steal their mods and corpse
On a side note, anyone who does not want to pay 30-40 mil for their barge is not putting it to maximum use. You really should have a better chance at replacing the lost money faster if you don't have to go through the effort of getting a new barge and set up a new mining spot. But then again, Im just a lousy pirate that doesn't even bother to ransom, since the mentality is to use crap mods on everything and deny every ransom sum possible. Forget that I said anything. Put the flamethrower down.
|
Garreck
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 15:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
At the same time, everyone who says they don't pay ransoms admits to be doing so with the intent to **** off the pirates that actually makes the effort of attempting a ransom instead of just looting and forgetting. If anything, THAT IS GRIEFING.
Now there's a twist.
Gotta seperate in-character motivations with out-of-character motivations. I don't begrudge a player who plays a pirate his fun by any means. (Indeed, I find I relate more to pirates in an out-of-character sense, being a pvp-er myself, than I do a lot of non-combat players.) But for Garreck, principle and pride are worth more than any ship he flies. Hence, no pay.
Of course, I've not been ransomed for a while as I tend to set the tactical pace when engaged with pirates. That must REALLY make me a griefer.
Garreck
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
randy andy
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 15:58:00 -
[37]
well your forgeting that we only mine to get us started and to get new ships we wnat to do the rat hunting/missions/ complexes/ and maybe a little pvp we are not mining all the time so no we dont max out the barge and if we are in empire then it takes longer to replace isk then to replace the barge so you figure that one out but if you ransom someone in empire then make it a little isk as its easy to pick up a bpc and make a new ship in a few hours but the poeple mining the good ore in 0.0 then thats when you should ask for more isk as it should take them more time and effort to replace the ship and mods and implants then in empire.. but then agian they be in an alliance so you might get taken out by his/her friends..
|
Sentinel Roqeze
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 16:09:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kamui Shiro
I build my own ships and earn a big profit thru insurance when they are blown up. Any ransom above 10 mill for my raven is too expensive as i can just build another one in 1 day of mining with my alt.
This is where the logic doesn't make sense though. Mining minerals yourself doesn't make them free... how much could you SELL them for? THAT is how much it costs you to build the Raven.
|
randy andy
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 16:20:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sentinel Roqeze
This is where the logic doesn't make sense though. Mining minerals yourself doesn't make them free... how much could you SELL them for? THAT is how much it costs you to build the Raven.
Thats if you sell them not everyone mines to sell so they are free
|
Sentinel Roqeze
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 16:29:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Sentinel Roqeze on 19/01/2006 16:30:47
Originally by: randy andy
Originally by: Sentinel Roqeze
This is where the logic doesn't make sense though. Mining minerals yourself doesn't make them free... how much could you SELL them for? THAT is how much it costs you to build the Raven.
Thats if you sell them not everyone mines to sell so they are free
Time is money, however you look at it, surely? If you don't sell the minerals, you should at least value them for what they are, given the time you put into getting them?
For example, you could mine 102M worth of mins and sell them, giving you enough money to buy a battleship. That battleship cost you 102M, right? OR, you could mine 102M worth of minerals and build a battleship. That same battleship cost you 102M - it wasn't free.
|
randy andy
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 16:32:00 -
[41]
Edited by: randy andy on 19/01/2006 16:33:52
Originally by: Sentinel Roqeze
Thats if you sell them not everyone mines to sell so they are free
Time is money, however you look at it, surely? If you don't sell the minerals, you should at least value them for what they are, given the time you put into getting them?
true time is worth something i.e. a new ship or mod in this case
true in that 102m ship is 102m but your forgeting the insurance on the ship as well
|
Sentinel Roqeze
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 16:33:00 -
[42]
We need to stop editing as the other is posting, lol!
|
randy andy
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 16:34:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sentinel Roqeze
We need to stop editing as the other is posting, lol!
i was thinking that too rofl
|
Sentinel Roqeze
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 16:41:00 -
[44]
Originally by: randy andy
true in that 102m ship is 102m but your forgeting the insurance on the ship as well
Sure, I didn't mention insurance. However, the fact remains that a 102M ship costs 102M, whether you buy the ship or mine the minerals. If you mine it, you might save say 4 or 5M, but it still costs you... the ship is not "free". That's the point I was trying to make. So many people consider the mins they mine to be free that it makes my heart bleed... I mean seriously, these same guys could make so much more profit selling the mins than they could producing ships or mods that they sell below cost.
|
Grimwalius d'Antan
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 16:46:00 -
[45]
It seems that insurance gives players a false sense of security. A ship loss is a loss no matter how you see it. The minerals you mine to build your own ships is a loss of income. Only because you're not removing ISK from your wallet does not mean you're not losing. The difference in building your own ship compared to buying a new one is that you're losing money you've never had instead of taking physical money from the wallet.
Lets assume you have a lottery ticket with a 1 mil win. The moment your buy your ticket, you have won 1 million of whatever currency you use. If you lose that ticket, you lose 1 million, even though you never had the actual money in possession. If you cash in the ticket and get your million, which is then stolen (ransomed), you lose 1 million.
Insurance pay out puts money in your wallet, but in reality you've had that money all along, in the form of a built ship. You're not creating money, you're just "refining" your ship into ISK when you lose it, with a margin of loss (insurance cost, potential mineral value changes, mods and ammo).
|
Sentinel Roqeze
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 16:48:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
It seems that insurance gives players a false sense of security. A ship loss is a loss no matter how you see it. The minerals you mine to build your own ships is a loss of income. Only because you're not removing ISK from your wallet does not mean you're not losing. The difference in building your own ship compared to buying a new one is that you're losing money you've never had instead of taking physical money from the wallet.
Lets assume you have a lottery ticket with a 1 mil win. The moment your buy your ticket, you have won 1 million of whatever currency you use. If you lose that ticket, you lose 1 million, even though you never had the actual money in possession. If you cash in the ticket and get your million, which is then stolen (ransomed), you lose 1 million.
Insurance pay out puts money in your wallet, but in reality you've had that money all along, in the form of a built ship. You're not creating money, you're just "refining" your ship into ISK when you lose it, with a margin of loss (insurance cost, potential mineral value changes, mods and ammo).
WORD.
|
randy andy
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 16:49:00 -
[47]
getting back to topic
i buy a cyclone and insure total cost about 28mill
mods and implants are free as they are rat loot or agent offers
i get blown up by some pvper it ashame
but insurance pays me 22.5m
out of that i pay up to 12 mill on zyd and mega
nearly all other mins are recycled loot maybe a little mining then the insurance is another 6.5m total cost of second/thrid/fourth ship is 18.5mill and 4 hours to get mins and bpc to factory and build new ship so i get 4 mill + on that ship blowing up and the mods and implants i can replace for more rat loot amd agents offer which makes me more isk
so i can make 4 mill + profit on losing a ship(cyclone) and if i tryed to look at it your way i would more likely be P.O'd and quit the game as i had wasted time in trying to get good at what i want and play games on a pc stand alone,
it all depends on how you look at the game thats why poeple do different thing in games because they have different outlooks 
|
Sentinel Roqeze
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 16:53:00 -
[48]
Originally by: randy andy
getting back to topic
i buy a cyclone and insure total cost about 28mill
mods and implants are free as they are rat loot or agent offers
i get blown up by some pvper it ashame
but insurance pays me 22.5m
out of that i pay up to 12 mill on zyd and mega
nearly all other mins are recycled loot maybe a little mining then the insurance is another 6.5m total cost of second/thrid/fourth ship is 18.5mill and 4 hours to get mins and bpc to factory and build new ship so i get 4 mill + on that ship blowing up and the mods and implants i can replace for more rat loot amd agents offer which makes me more isk
so i can make 4 mill + profit on losing a ship(cyclone) and if i tryed to look at it your way i would more likely be P.O'd and quit the game as i had wasted time in trying to get good at what i want and play games on a pc stand alone,
it all depends on how you look at the game thats why poeple do different thing in games because they have different outlooks
But I would consider those mods and implants to be worth the market value, not free. I could have sold them for market value and had isk in my pocket... I didn't sell them, but used them, which means I effectively SPENT the market value on them in order to keep them.
|
Grimwalius d'Antan
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 16:57:00 -
[49]
Originally by: randy andy
mods and implants are free as they are rat loot or agent offers
You're paying for these mods and implants by spending time NPCing. If you lose them, you must NPC some more to gain them back. The time you spend NPCing could have been used for something else. Agent offers requires ISK, LP and items, so they are DEFINATELY not for free. Money is not the only thing that has value in the world.
Originally by: randy andy
if i tryed to look at it your way i would more likely be P.O'd and quit the game as i had wasted time in trying to get good at what i want and play games on a pc stand alone,
it all depends on how you look at the game thats why poeple do different thing in games because they have different outlooks
You're saying you're shielding yourself from the truth to be able to enjoy the game. It is sorta like saying "It is no big deal, it will grow out again" after having your leg decapitated by a freight train. You're lying to yourself, and you're admitting it. Well, it seems to work for you. I could never do that, I'd need blow half my brain away with a shotgun and be injected with sedatives to be able to lie to myself.
|
Iberi
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 17:02:00 -
[50]
Lost of ship costs consists of
- insurance
- fitting
That's all. Reasonable ransom is about half of sum. I.e. for OP Apoc 30kk(insurance) + 1kk(me told that KORKY could win only unfitted Apoc). I.e. 15.5 kk for pirates, 15.5 for the pilot. Good deal. Everybody is happy.
In common case Apoc has about 20kk in fit(may be more but precise;y it is difficult to calc). So average ransom for Apoc should be 25kk.
|
randy andy
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 17:05:00 -
[51]
Edited by: randy andy on 19/01/2006 17:09:38
nope i am not lying to myself i just have a different out look to you in the game thats all and i do a lot of npc's and not all agent offerd have isk cost to them
but i am off home so talk to you tomorrow
|
Sentinel Roqeze
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 17:06:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Iberi
Lost of ship costs consists of
- insurance
- fitting
That's all. Reasonable ransom is about half of sum. I.e. for OP Apoc 30kk(insurance) + 1kk(me told that KORKY could win only unfitted Apoc). I.e. 15.5 kk for pirates, 15.5 for the pilot. Good deal. Everybody is happy.
In common case Apoc has about 20kk in fit(may be more but precise;y it is difficult to calc). So average ransom for Apoc should be 25kk.
I ransomed a Phoon for 10M - he rejected it. I'm realistic in my ransoms, and I made 20M by killing him.
PLEASE people, learn to say yes - it will save you isk, make my life easier and we'll all be happy.
|
Sentinel Roqeze
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 17:08:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Sentinel Roqeze on 19/01/2006 17:08:06
I think your post went FUBAR, Andy, unless you were QFT, lol!
|
LeeeroyJenkins
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 17:13:00 -
[54]
Just out of curiousity - what is the etiquette with ransoming? Do you ask for the money once into structure or should I interrupt your ganking to ask for terms?
|
Sentinel Roqeze
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 17:15:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Sentinel Roqeze on 19/01/2006 17:16:14
Originally by: LeeeroyJenkins
Just out of curiousity - what is the etiquette with ransoming? Do you ask for the money once into structure or should I interrupt your ganking to ask for terms?
It works differently for different corps.
Personally, I will hit the convo request button the momnet you've been tackled, taking in to account the delay it has to open a window. I will then demand my ransom at 50% armor. If you respond, I will call halt to my squad at the first hull strike... if an agreement is made, you live.
PS - Love the name. Gotta love Leroy!
|
Butter Dog
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 17:23:00 -
[56]
I have to say, if I were careless, and caught by some decent pirates, with a ship full of named mods, I would be prepared to pay a fair ransom.
I can pretty much tell after the first 10 seconds if I'm not going to be walking away with my ship during an engagement, so I would be proactive and convo the pirates myself if they did not convo me.
Its not the ISK, its the sheer annoyance of buying new ships and mods. Especially if you are using top-end modules, and have to scour the four corners of EVE for everything. Its just a hassle.
If you're just in a frig or cruiser with standard modules, fine... its easy to recover from that... but I can think of certain setups I use which would make me feel positively sick if I lost them :)
|
Grimwalius d'Antan
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 17:27:00 -
[57]
If you find yourself being pinned down and want to buy yourself out, don't assume that the pirate will make the offer.
Stop firing back, open a convo with one of the pirates (if there are more than one shooting at you) and immediately tell them you want to be ransomed. Once they stop shooting at you, stop your ship and turn off your repairers and shield boosters. Don't do anything but talk, and talk fast. Don't be surprized if you're asked for more than 10 mil. It is not actually expensive, at least not if you're in a ship that is worth ransoming. If you demand to be ransomed in a ship with basic mods, don't expect anyone to take pity upon you and let you go easier. Every ransomer assumes you're trying to save millions worth of mods and implants.
Also remember that you're probably not gonna be ransomed in anything smaller than a Battlecruiser.
|
Sentinel Roqeze
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 17:28:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Sentinel Roqeze on 19/01/2006 17:28:46
Originally by: Butter Dog
I have to say, if I were careless, and caught by some decent pirates, with a ship full of named mods, I would be prepared to pay a fair ransom.
I can pretty much tell after the first 10 seconds if I'm not going to be walking away with my ship during an engagement, so I would be proactive and convo the pirates myself if they did not convo me.
Its not the ISK, its the sheer annoyance of buying new ships and mods. Especially if you are using top-end modules, and have to scour the four corners of EVE for everything. Its just a hassle.
If you're just in a frig or cruiser with standard modules, fine... its easy to recover from that... but I can think of certain setups I use which would make me feel positively sick if I lost them :)
Good post - that's where it's at. Many people don't value the time they spend developing their wealth / items and they lose out because of it. I have a Caracal worth around the same as a base fitted BS... I'd pay to keep it. But I could say "hell, it only cost me a couple days ratting to get it". Sorry, but I don't want to play the luck game.
Edit because of drunkeness and mispelling.
|
mirel yirrin
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 18:13:00 -
[59]
Edited by: mirel yirrin on 19/01/2006 18:14:05
nvrm dbl pst
---------------------------------
|
mirel yirrin
|
Posted - 2006.01.19 18:14:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Iberi
Originally by: mirel yirrin
If your clever enough, I suggest Checking out out Forums and Killboard.
Oh, no! I can't believe. KORKY is attacking Apoc! May be you have been dreaming?
Most dangerous target you could attack is unarmed Probe.
Everyone else makes constructive posts and YOU have to flame me. What is your major malfunction?
Are you Just Jealous of our Powers?
Would you Like a Hug?
---------------------------------
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |