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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:30:00 -
[1]
Something that puzzles me in general.
Couple nights ago me and the crew Found a Apoc wandering around low sec. I'll spare you the gory details but he eneded up 10% struc with a convo window open. I proffer a 40mil Ransom, and he Tells me to get stuffed, cos its cheaper to build a new one. The collective Response was "WTF".
So Riddle Me this;
Why do people not Pay Ransoms? Even when they are incredibly low? is it just being totally AP and not wanting to perpetuate the cycle, or are they just plain Stupid?
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Traxio Nacho
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:33:00 -
[2]
Well if he only had TI gear on it he could prob buy a new apoc, insure it and almsot fit all the mods for the 40mil you were gonna charge him.
Plus if he bought/mined all the mins he would prob make abit of profit from the insurance even if it is a pain in the arse to do.
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Iroquois
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:34:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: mirel yirrin
Something that puzzles me in general.
Couple nights ago me and the crew Found a Apoc wandering around low sec. I'll spare you the gory details but he eneded up 10% struc with a convo window open. I proffer a 40mil Ransom, and he Tells me to get stuffed, cos its cheaper to build a new one. The collective Response was "WTF".
So Riddle Me this;
Why do people not Pay Ransoms? Even when they are incredibly low? is it just being totally AP and not wanting to perpetuate the cycle, or are they just plain Stupid?
Maybe he's heard of the "Krazed Killer Something or Anothers" from Molden Heath before and didn't think you could actually kill the remaining 10% of his structure?
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Garreck
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:36:00 -
[4]
General principle I suppose.
Much as I hear pirates complain about folks not paying ransoms, perhaps I'll offer the next few pirates I catch on one of my patrols a ransom and see what kind of response I get.
Garreck
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
Jane Vladmir
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Posted - 2006.01.18 15:39:00 -
[5]
Pride causing stupidity.
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Sentinel Roqeze
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Posted - 2006.01.18 16:00:00 -
[6]
People very rarely pay ransoms on ships any more, unless they are carrying valuable cargo or are fitted with expensive mods. The problems, most evident with T1 ships, is the insurance payout.
Take a Cyclone, for example (since I know the rough figures off the top of my head). It costs say 23M to buy one and 7M to insure it on Platinum, which pays 22.5M. Along comes a pirate and demands a 10M ransom... pilot does the maths and thinks "Hang on a second, if this thing gets blown up I get enough insurance money to replace it and it will cost me 7M to insure it, meaning that I'm actually 3M better off having it destroyed than I am paying the ransom".
Basically, us pirates need to lower our ransom demands on T1 ships in the hopes of obtaining more business in quantity, or forget ransoming the ships, go straight for the kill and loot, ransoming the pod in the process.
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Cvuos
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Posted - 2006.01.18 16:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sentinel Roqeze
Basically, us pirates need to lower our ransom demands on T1 ships in the hopes of obtaining more business in quantity, or forget ransoming the ships, go straight for the kill and loot, ransoming the pod in the process.
Then you'd have to hope they have implants! Assuming a character with an expensive clone would be tougher to beat, how much would you expect to ransom a <3M SP character? 1 million?
Perhaps you should have a list of insurance costs and a pre-typed ransom demand explaining this in detail. 
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Sentinel Roqeze
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Posted - 2006.01.18 16:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Cvuos
Perhaps you should have a list of insurance costs and a pre-typed ransom demand explaining this in detail.
LMAO, it might improve my pay-out rate if I did!
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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2006.01.18 16:12:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Iroquois
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Something that puzzles me in general.
Couple nights ago me and the crew Found a Apoc wandering around low sec. I'll spare you the gory details but he eneded up 10% struc with a convo window open. I proffer a 40mil Ransom, and he Tells me to get stuffed, cos its cheaper to build a new one. The collective Response was "WTF".
So Riddle Me this;
Why do people not Pay Ransoms? Even when they are incredibly low? is it just being totally AP and not wanting to perpetuate the cycle, or are they just plain Stupid?
Maybe he's heard of the "Krazed Killer Something or Anothers" from Molden Heath before and didn't think you could actually kill the remaining 10% of his structure?
Oh thats just Cold. Really cold.
I bet your some guy who we've killed at some point taking a lil' potshot of revenge at us on the forums.
Lucky I have 85% **** Resistance 
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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2006.01.18 16:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Traxio Nacho
Well if he only had TI gear on it he could prob buy a new apoc, insure it and almsot fit all the mods for the 40mil you were gonna charge him.
Plus if he bought/mined all the mins he would prob make abit of profit from the insurance even if it is a pain in the arse to do.
Apoc's retail on average for 90-100mil Atm. insure is a further 20~ something mil. If he mined all of it (unlikely) then it would be almost free to Replace. Maybe he has a BPO?
His can had Named Gear and a few faction things so I have no idea why he said no.
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Traxio Nacho
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Posted - 2006.01.18 16:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Originally by: Traxio Nacho
Well if he only had TI gear on it he could prob buy a new apoc, insure it and almsot fit all the mods for the 40mil you were gonna charge him.
Plus if he bought/mined all the mins he would prob make abit of profit from the insurance even if it is a pain in the arse to do.
Apoc's retail on average for 90-100mil Atm. insure is a further 20~ something mil. If he mined all of it (unlikely) then it would be almost free to Replace. Maybe he has a BPO?
His can had Named Gear and a few faction things so I have no idea why he said no.
Well if he had named and some faction gear I don't know maybe just abit of pride or maybe you should lower your ransoms abit
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Troye
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Posted - 2006.01.18 16:58:00 -
[12]
Pirates charge way to much isk for their randsoms especialy on ships which they've never piloted or dont know much about... IE: mining barges.
Not many miners with half a brain cell are gunna go out in a barge fitted with tec2 stripers, the risk and cost of replacing them is just too big. Ive been asked 40 million for my Covetor before.....
Pirates realy need to get up on ship know-how if they want to make a profit off randsoms. Most Id paye to save my Cov is 15 mill.
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Iroquois
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Posted - 2006.01.18 17:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Originally by: Iroquois
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Something that puzzles me in general.
Couple nights ago me and the crew Found a Apoc wandering around low sec. I'll spare you the gory details but he eneded up 10% struc with a convo window open. I proffer a 40mil Ransom, and he Tells me to get stuffed, cos its cheaper to build a new one. The collective Response was "WTF".
So Riddle Me this;
Why do people not Pay Ransoms? Even when they are incredibly low? is it just being totally AP and not wanting to perpetuate the cycle, or are they just plain Stupid?
Maybe he's heard of the "Krazed Killer Something or Anothers" from Molden Heath before and didn't think you could actually kill the remaining 10% of his structure?
Oh thats just Cold. Really cold.
I bet your some guy who we've killed at some point taking a lil' potshot of revenge at us on the forums.
Lucky I have 85% **** Resistance
Actually no, I just happen to see KORKY pods flying by me all time on their way back to Hield.
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2006.01.18 17:59:00 -
[14]
People want to be ransomed, but they don't want to actually pay ransom.
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Troye
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Posted - 2006.01.18 18:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
People want to be ransomed, but they don't want to actually pay ransom.
well its nice to at least give your costomer the choice...
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2006.01.18 19:50:00 -
[16]
I get my ransoms paid so very little of the time that when somebody actually does pay it I just end up sending it back and blowing them up for the highly expensive loot they've obviously got on board.
The thing is, people don't want to pay somebody who just put them back a couple hours/days/whatever of grinding. They'd rather pay more if it means the money doesn't go to the pirate. These people are dumbasses because now they neither have the option of ransoming for the few times they actually want it and spite themselves to spite the pirate.
I feel no regret when cutting them out of their ships. Sucking vacuum is too good for them.
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
NestcePas
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Posted - 2006.01.18 19:55:00 -
[17]
How about lowering your ransom?
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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2006.01.18 20:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Iroquois
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Originally by: Iroquois
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Something that puzzles me in general.
Couple nights ago me and the crew Found a Apoc wandering around low sec. I'll spare you the gory details but he eneded up 10% struc with a convo window open. I proffer a 40mil Ransom, and he Tells me to get stuffed, cos its cheaper to build a new one. The collective Response was "WTF".
So Riddle Me this;
Why do people not Pay Ransoms? Even when they are incredibly low? is it just being totally AP and not wanting to perpetuate the cycle, or are they just plain Stupid?
Maybe he's heard of the "Krazed Killer Something or Anothers" from Molden Heath before and didn't think you could actually kill the remaining 10% of his structure?
Oh thats just Cold. Really cold.
I bet your some guy who we've killed at some point taking a lil' potshot of revenge at us on the forums.
Lucky I have 85% **** Resistance
Actually no, I just happen to see KORKY pods flying by me all time on their way back to Hield.
Everyone gets killed at some time. Just because you've seen out pods a few times does not mean we don't kill **** on a day to day basis.
If your clever enough, I suggest Checking out out Forums and Killboard.
See it as a little challenge, shouldn't take you more then, ooh, a few weeks. 
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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2006.01.18 20:48:00 -
[19]
[P.S] Now That Is Cold :P
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2006.01.18 22:14:00 -
[20]
100% insurance and crap gear, shame they dont factor in the time they lose and the 31mil insurance for the next apoc
Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas' |
Makree
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Posted - 2006.01.18 22:59:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Makree on 18/01/2006 23:01:00
Is there a school that you pathtic accountant pirates go to?
Oh, I forgot, there is. S*****rdly - The Pathetic Pirate Accountants.
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2006.01.18 23:25:00 -
[22]
Why pay ransom ?...only if you are carrying something very valuble...and if got caught doing that, one should suspect that the pirate "ransoming" knew that also, by scanning your ship. another reason to pay ransom, would be loss of implants, but at this stage you would proberly allready have lost yur ship.
I have never been ransomed before, and would not pay anything, but thats because i can afford it...as a new player, you may not be able to, but i think 40 mio is over the top.
I personally, would always try to fight my way out of it 
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Darkdashing
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Posted - 2006.01.19 00:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Something that puzzles me in general.
Couple nights ago me and the crew Found a Apoc wandering around low sec. I'll spare you the gory details but he eneded up 10% struc with a convo window open. I proffer a 40mil Ransom, and he Tells me to get stuffed, cos its cheaper to build a new one. The collective Response was "WTF".
So Riddle Me this;
Why do people not Pay Ransoms? Even when they are incredibly low? is it just being totally AP and not wanting to perpetuate the cycle, or are they just plain Stupid?
40 million is not low when I have 10mil to my name atm.
There is beauty in tension.... |
Kamui Shiro
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Posted - 2006.01.19 02:59:00 -
[24]
I build my own ships and earn a big profit thru insurance when they are blown up. Any ransom above 10 mill for my raven is too expensive as i can just build another one in 1 day of mining with my alt.
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Berak FalCheran
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Posted - 2006.01.19 03:12:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Berak FalCheran on 19/01/2006 03:13:16
I don't ransom.
I wouldn't pay a ransom either.
Looting cans ftw.
It's not about math it's about saying "f off" and fighting :)
Edit: I don't play EVE to get free money from people scared of me. I play EVE to blow **** up and fight. That's fun. Your wallet blinking isn't fun.
In short: Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.
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Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2006.01.19 03:47:00 -
[26]
It is not so ilogical if you think it as an act of war against piracy.
Take this example: a customer can choose between
a) Paying 10 million and walking away
b) Not paying, and losing 20 million
So at first glance, you may think "hum... obviously he loses more with option b), why does he choses it?"
But... when you think of it from the point of view of war/competition:
a) he loses 10M, and gives his opponent 10M
b) he loses 20M, causing his oponent a loss of 10M (what the pirate does not get)
From this point of view, not paying is a good strategy.
(Nerd Note: it all depends on how you define the competition.
-If it is pirate-against-customer, paying ransom is a bad long-term strategy.
-If it is customer-against-customer with pirates being a factor, paying ransom is a good long-term strategy.)
Barriers - an EVE novel |
Richard Mnemonic
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Posted - 2006.01.19 08:24:00 -
[27]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Why do people not Pay Ransoms?
Because they do not want to make it easy for the lazy pirate. Take the security hit, the kill rights, pick up the loot, etc....
But seriously, maybe because they rather pay for a new ship to an industrialist then paying the pirate. Obviously this would only work if the mods are not that expensive and a pod kill would not be that expensive as well.
Tbh, I would not pay a ransome for a ship. Maybe for a pod but then again, probably not.
What I really think is "stuppid" is that people find NOT paying a ransome is stuppid.
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Trey Azagthoth
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Posted - 2006.01.19 08:41:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Iroquois
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Something that puzzles me in general.
Couple nights ago me and the crew Found a Apoc wandering around low sec. I'll spare you the gory details but he eneded up 10% struc with a convo window open. I proffer a 40mil Ransom, and he Tells me to get stuffed, cos its cheaper to build a new one. The collective Response was "WTF".
So Riddle Me this;
Why do people not Pay Ransoms? Even when they are incredibly low? is it just being totally AP and not wanting to perpetuate the cycle, or are they just plain Stupid?
Maybe he's heard of the "Krazed Killer Something or Anothers" from Molden Heath before and didn't think you could actually kill the remaining 10% of his structure?
This person for President of the World.
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Teles666
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Posted - 2006.01.19 08:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Sun Ra
100% insurance and crap gear, shame they dont factor in the time they lose and the 31mil insurance for the next apoc
Your not allowed to whine about people not paying ransoms if you don't ask for them
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2006.01.19 10:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kamui Shiro
I build my own ships and earn a big profit thru insurance when they are blown up. Any ransom above 10 mill for my raven is too expensive as i can just build another one in 1 day of mining with my alt.
Mistake number one and this probably explains why some aren't smart enough to pay ransoms. Pay the ransom and so keep the ship and your pod. Now you are down 30 mil or so. Log on with your mining alt and mine the ores for the replacement raven. Build and sell that replacement raven on the market for 100mil. Now you are 70 million up on the whole process.
or
Allow yourself to loose the ship = 100mil
loose the modules you have fitted = 20mil
insure the new ship = 30mil
loss = 150mil (excluding implants and new clone)
The point is minerals aren't free if you mine them yourself. You don't "earn money" through insurance. You only offset the loss of the those minerals invested in the ship.
Galactic Exploration and Mining - Web and T II Shop
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Queen Rachok
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Posted - 2006.01.19 10:35:00 -
[31]
The reason people dont pay is:
1. Paying ransom will cause more ransom (succes will result in repeating)
2. You NEVER have the guarantee that you will live.
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Nahia Senne
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Posted - 2006.01.19 13:48:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Queen Rachok
The reason people dont pay is:
1. Paying ransom will cause more ransom (succes will result in repeating)
2. You NEVER have the guarantee that you will live.
1. You will be attacked regardless. Paying ransoms will only cause more attempts to ransom before they decide to kill you.
2. You have rather high guarantee that you will live. And if you die due to being late on your payment, most pirates will actually send you your isk back.
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Iberi
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Posted - 2006.01.19 14:58:00 -
[33]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
If your clever enough, I suggest Checking out out Forums and Killboard.
Oh, no! I can't believe. KORKY is attacking Apoc! May be you have been dreaming?
Most dangerous target you could attack is unarmed Probe.
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randy andy
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Posted - 2006.01.19 15:25:00 -
[34]
Edited by: randy andy on 19/01/2006 15:27:39
well i dont pay ransoms for a few reasons
1 it upsets pirates which is good
2 i can replace my ship and mods quite easy
3 i have 6-10 mill profit at the end to make up for the trouble
4 i get most of the mins from recycleing poor npc rats loot so not a lot of mining if any
if i have any good mods or implants then i have got them from rats/missions/agent offers so dont to hard to replace
now if you claimed a system which i would like to mine or rat hunt then
if i am mining and you said this is my/our system and you have to pay 1 refine of the best ore in belt per 30 mins and we/i/pirate will kill the npc rats so you can mine
i would probably say ok/yes pls
if i did not then you can blow up the barge or what ship i was using and/or pod me as well
so basicly i am saying you can kill me and get the rat loot gear that i use and i ended with isk in the bank or you can work with me and i pay you in ore or loot if i rat hunt so pls yourself at the end of the day..
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2006.01.19 15:45:00 -
[35]
Interesting turn of events. People wrongfully assume that pirates are in it for the griefing of players who puts effort into mining and minding their own business. At the same time, everyone who says they don't pay ransoms admits to be doing so with the intent to **** off the pirates that actually makes the effort of attempting a ransom instead of just looting and forgetting. If anything, THAT IS GRIEFING. Attacking someone with the intent to shake money from them or steal their mods and corpse
On a side note, anyone who does not want to pay 30-40 mil for their barge is not putting it to maximum use. You really should have a better chance at replacing the lost money faster if you don't have to go through the effort of getting a new barge and set up a new mining spot. But then again, Im just a lousy pirate that doesn't even bother to ransom, since the mentality is to use crap mods on everything and deny every ransom sum possible. Forget that I said anything. Put the flamethrower down.
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Garreck
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Posted - 2006.01.19 15:54:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
At the same time, everyone who says they don't pay ransoms admits to be doing so with the intent to **** off the pirates that actually makes the effort of attempting a ransom instead of just looting and forgetting. If anything, THAT IS GRIEFING.
Now there's a twist.
Gotta seperate in-character motivations with out-of-character motivations. I don't begrudge a player who plays a pirate his fun by any means. (Indeed, I find I relate more to pirates in an out-of-character sense, being a pvp-er myself, than I do a lot of non-combat players.) But for Garreck, principle and pride are worth more than any ship he flies. Hence, no pay.
Of course, I've not been ransomed for a while as I tend to set the tactical pace when engaged with pirates. That must REALLY make me a griefer.
Garreck
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
randy andy
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Posted - 2006.01.19 15:58:00 -
[37]
well your forgeting that we only mine to get us started and to get new ships we wnat to do the rat hunting/missions/ complexes/ and maybe a little pvp we are not mining all the time so no we dont max out the barge and if we are in empire then it takes longer to replace isk then to replace the barge so you figure that one out but if you ransom someone in empire then make it a little isk as its easy to pick up a bpc and make a new ship in a few hours but the poeple mining the good ore in 0.0 then thats when you should ask for more isk as it should take them more time and effort to replace the ship and mods and implants then in empire.. but then agian they be in an alliance so you might get taken out by his/her friends..
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Sentinel Roqeze
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Posted - 2006.01.19 16:09:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kamui Shiro
I build my own ships and earn a big profit thru insurance when they are blown up. Any ransom above 10 mill for my raven is too expensive as i can just build another one in 1 day of mining with my alt.
This is where the logic doesn't make sense though. Mining minerals yourself doesn't make them free... how much could you SELL them for? THAT is how much it costs you to build the Raven.
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randy andy
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Posted - 2006.01.19 16:20:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sentinel Roqeze
This is where the logic doesn't make sense though. Mining minerals yourself doesn't make them free... how much could you SELL them for? THAT is how much it costs you to build the Raven.
Thats if you sell them not everyone mines to sell so they are free
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Sentinel Roqeze
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Posted - 2006.01.19 16:29:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Sentinel Roqeze on 19/01/2006 16:30:47
Originally by: randy andy
Originally by: Sentinel Roqeze
This is where the logic doesn't make sense though. Mining minerals yourself doesn't make them free... how much could you SELL them for? THAT is how much it costs you to build the Raven.
Thats if you sell them not everyone mines to sell so they are free
Time is money, however you look at it, surely? If you don't sell the minerals, you should at least value them for what they are, given the time you put into getting them?
For example, you could mine 102M worth of mins and sell them, giving you enough money to buy a battleship. That battleship cost you 102M, right? OR, you could mine 102M worth of minerals and build a battleship. That same battleship cost you 102M - it wasn't free.
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randy andy
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Posted - 2006.01.19 16:32:00 -
[41]
Edited by: randy andy on 19/01/2006 16:33:52
Originally by: Sentinel Roqeze
Thats if you sell them not everyone mines to sell so they are free
Time is money, however you look at it, surely? If you don't sell the minerals, you should at least value them for what they are, given the time you put into getting them?
true time is worth something i.e. a new ship or mod in this case
true in that 102m ship is 102m but your forgeting the insurance on the ship as well
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Sentinel Roqeze
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Posted - 2006.01.19 16:33:00 -
[42]
We need to stop editing as the other is posting, lol!
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randy andy
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Posted - 2006.01.19 16:34:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sentinel Roqeze
We need to stop editing as the other is posting, lol!
i was thinking that too rofl
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Sentinel Roqeze
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Posted - 2006.01.19 16:41:00 -
[44]
Originally by: randy andy
true in that 102m ship is 102m but your forgeting the insurance on the ship as well
Sure, I didn't mention insurance. However, the fact remains that a 102M ship costs 102M, whether you buy the ship or mine the minerals. If you mine it, you might save say 4 or 5M, but it still costs you... the ship is not "free". That's the point I was trying to make. So many people consider the mins they mine to be free that it makes my heart bleed... I mean seriously, these same guys could make so much more profit selling the mins than they could producing ships or mods that they sell below cost.
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2006.01.19 16:46:00 -
[45]
It seems that insurance gives players a false sense of security. A ship loss is a loss no matter how you see it. The minerals you mine to build your own ships is a loss of income. Only because you're not removing ISK from your wallet does not mean you're not losing. The difference in building your own ship compared to buying a new one is that you're losing money you've never had instead of taking physical money from the wallet.
Lets assume you have a lottery ticket with a 1 mil win. The moment your buy your ticket, you have won 1 million of whatever currency you use. If you lose that ticket, you lose 1 million, even though you never had the actual money in possession. If you cash in the ticket and get your million, which is then stolen (ransomed), you lose 1 million.
Insurance pay out puts money in your wallet, but in reality you've had that money all along, in the form of a built ship. You're not creating money, you're just "refining" your ship into ISK when you lose it, with a margin of loss (insurance cost, potential mineral value changes, mods and ammo).
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Sentinel Roqeze
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Posted - 2006.01.19 16:48:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Grimwalius d'Antan
It seems that insurance gives players a false sense of security. A ship loss is a loss no matter how you see it. The minerals you mine to build your own ships is a loss of income. Only because you're not removing ISK from your wallet does not mean you're not losing. The difference in building your own ship compared to buying a new one is that you're losing money you've never had instead of taking physical money from the wallet.
Lets assume you have a lottery ticket with a 1 mil win. The moment your buy your ticket, you have won 1 million of whatever currency you use. If you lose that ticket, you lose 1 million, even though you never had the actual money in possession. If you cash in the ticket and get your million, which is then stolen (ransomed), you lose 1 million.
Insurance pay out puts money in your wallet, but in reality you've had that money all along, in the form of a built ship. You're not creating money, you're just "refining" your ship into ISK when you lose it, with a margin of loss (insurance cost, potential mineral value changes, mods and ammo).
WORD.
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randy andy
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Posted - 2006.01.19 16:49:00 -
[47]
getting back to topic
i buy a cyclone and insure total cost about 28mill
mods and implants are free as they are rat loot or agent offers
i get blown up by some pvper it ashame
but insurance pays me 22.5m
out of that i pay up to 12 mill on zyd and mega
nearly all other mins are recycled loot maybe a little mining then the insurance is another 6.5m total cost of second/thrid/fourth ship is 18.5mill and 4 hours to get mins and bpc to factory and build new ship so i get 4 mill + on that ship blowing up and the mods and implants i can replace for more rat loot amd agents offer which makes me more isk
so i can make 4 mill + profit on losing a ship(cyclone) and if i tryed to look at it your way i would more likely be P.O'd and quit the game as i had wasted time in trying to get good at what i want and play games on a pc stand alone,
it all depends on how you look at the game thats why poeple do different thing in games because they have different outlooks 
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Sentinel Roqeze
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Posted - 2006.01.19 16:53:00 -
[48]
Originally by: randy andy
getting back to topic
i buy a cyclone and insure total cost about 28mill
mods and implants are free as they are rat loot or agent offers
i get blown up by some pvper it ashame
but insurance pays me 22.5m
out of that i pay up to 12 mill on zyd and mega
nearly all other mins are recycled loot maybe a little mining then the insurance is another 6.5m total cost of second/thrid/fourth ship is 18.5mill and 4 hours to get mins and bpc to factory and build new ship so i get 4 mill + on that ship blowing up and the mods and implants i can replace for more rat loot amd agents offer which makes me more isk
so i can make 4 mill + profit on losing a ship(cyclone) and if i tryed to look at it your way i would more likely be P.O'd and quit the game as i had wasted time in trying to get good at what i want and play games on a pc stand alone,
it all depends on how you look at the game thats why poeple do different thing in games because they have different outlooks
But I would consider those mods and implants to be worth the market value, not free. I could have sold them for market value and had isk in my pocket... I didn't sell them, but used them, which means I effectively SPENT the market value on them in order to keep them.
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2006.01.19 16:57:00 -
[49]
Originally by: randy andy
mods and implants are free as they are rat loot or agent offers
You're paying for these mods and implants by spending time NPCing. If you lose them, you must NPC some more to gain them back. The time you spend NPCing could have been used for something else. Agent offers requires ISK, LP and items, so they are DEFINATELY not for free. Money is not the only thing that has value in the world.
Originally by: randy andy
if i tryed to look at it your way i would more likely be P.O'd and quit the game as i had wasted time in trying to get good at what i want and play games on a pc stand alone,
it all depends on how you look at the game thats why poeple do different thing in games because they have different outlooks
You're saying you're shielding yourself from the truth to be able to enjoy the game. It is sorta like saying "It is no big deal, it will grow out again" after having your leg decapitated by a freight train. You're lying to yourself, and you're admitting it. Well, it seems to work for you. I could never do that, I'd need blow half my brain away with a shotgun and be injected with sedatives to be able to lie to myself.
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Iberi
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Posted - 2006.01.19 17:02:00 -
[50]
Lost of ship costs consists of
- insurance
- fitting
That's all. Reasonable ransom is about half of sum. I.e. for OP Apoc 30kk(insurance) + 1kk(me told that KORKY could win only unfitted Apoc). I.e. 15.5 kk for pirates, 15.5 for the pilot. Good deal. Everybody is happy.
In common case Apoc has about 20kk in fit(may be more but precise;y it is difficult to calc). So average ransom for Apoc should be 25kk.
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randy andy
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Posted - 2006.01.19 17:05:00 -
[51]
Edited by: randy andy on 19/01/2006 17:09:38
nope i am not lying to myself i just have a different out look to you in the game thats all and i do a lot of npc's and not all agent offerd have isk cost to them
but i am off home so talk to you tomorrow
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Sentinel Roqeze
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Posted - 2006.01.19 17:06:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Iberi
Lost of ship costs consists of
- insurance
- fitting
That's all. Reasonable ransom is about half of sum. I.e. for OP Apoc 30kk(insurance) + 1kk(me told that KORKY could win only unfitted Apoc). I.e. 15.5 kk for pirates, 15.5 for the pilot. Good deal. Everybody is happy.
In common case Apoc has about 20kk in fit(may be more but precise;y it is difficult to calc). So average ransom for Apoc should be 25kk.
I ransomed a Phoon for 10M - he rejected it. I'm realistic in my ransoms, and I made 20M by killing him.
PLEASE people, learn to say yes - it will save you isk, make my life easier and we'll all be happy.
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Sentinel Roqeze
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Posted - 2006.01.19 17:08:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Sentinel Roqeze on 19/01/2006 17:08:06
I think your post went FUBAR, Andy, unless you were QFT, lol!
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LeeeroyJenkins
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Posted - 2006.01.19 17:13:00 -
[54]
Just out of curiousity - what is the etiquette with ransoming? Do you ask for the money once into structure or should I interrupt your ganking to ask for terms?
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Sentinel Roqeze
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Posted - 2006.01.19 17:15:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Sentinel Roqeze on 19/01/2006 17:16:14
Originally by: LeeeroyJenkins
Just out of curiousity - what is the etiquette with ransoming? Do you ask for the money once into structure or should I interrupt your ganking to ask for terms?
It works differently for different corps.
Personally, I will hit the convo request button the momnet you've been tackled, taking in to account the delay it has to open a window. I will then demand my ransom at 50% armor. If you respond, I will call halt to my squad at the first hull strike... if an agreement is made, you live.
PS - Love the name. Gotta love Leroy!
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Butter Dog
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Posted - 2006.01.19 17:23:00 -
[56]
I have to say, if I were careless, and caught by some decent pirates, with a ship full of named mods, I would be prepared to pay a fair ransom.
I can pretty much tell after the first 10 seconds if I'm not going to be walking away with my ship during an engagement, so I would be proactive and convo the pirates myself if they did not convo me.
Its not the ISK, its the sheer annoyance of buying new ships and mods. Especially if you are using top-end modules, and have to scour the four corners of EVE for everything. Its just a hassle.
If you're just in a frig or cruiser with standard modules, fine... its easy to recover from that... but I can think of certain setups I use which would make me feel positively sick if I lost them :)
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2006.01.19 17:27:00 -
[57]
If you find yourself being pinned down and want to buy yourself out, don't assume that the pirate will make the offer.
Stop firing back, open a convo with one of the pirates (if there are more than one shooting at you) and immediately tell them you want to be ransomed. Once they stop shooting at you, stop your ship and turn off your repairers and shield boosters. Don't do anything but talk, and talk fast. Don't be surprized if you're asked for more than 10 mil. It is not actually expensive, at least not if you're in a ship that is worth ransoming. If you demand to be ransomed in a ship with basic mods, don't expect anyone to take pity upon you and let you go easier. Every ransomer assumes you're trying to save millions worth of mods and implants.
Also remember that you're probably not gonna be ransomed in anything smaller than a Battlecruiser.
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Sentinel Roqeze
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Posted - 2006.01.19 17:28:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Sentinel Roqeze on 19/01/2006 17:28:46
Originally by: Butter Dog
I have to say, if I were careless, and caught by some decent pirates, with a ship full of named mods, I would be prepared to pay a fair ransom.
I can pretty much tell after the first 10 seconds if I'm not going to be walking away with my ship during an engagement, so I would be proactive and convo the pirates myself if they did not convo me.
Its not the ISK, its the sheer annoyance of buying new ships and mods. Especially if you are using top-end modules, and have to scour the four corners of EVE for everything. Its just a hassle.
If you're just in a frig or cruiser with standard modules, fine... its easy to recover from that... but I can think of certain setups I use which would make me feel positively sick if I lost them :)
Good post - that's where it's at. Many people don't value the time they spend developing their wealth / items and they lose out because of it. I have a Caracal worth around the same as a base fitted BS... I'd pay to keep it. But I could say "hell, it only cost me a couple days ratting to get it". Sorry, but I don't want to play the luck game.
Edit because of drunkeness and mispelling.
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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2006.01.19 18:13:00 -
[59]
Edited by: mirel yirrin on 19/01/2006 18:14:05
nvrm dbl pst
---------------------------------
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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2006.01.19 18:14:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Iberi
Originally by: mirel yirrin
If your clever enough, I suggest Checking out out Forums and Killboard.
Oh, no! I can't believe. KORKY is attacking Apoc! May be you have been dreaming?
Most dangerous target you could attack is unarmed Probe.
Everyone else makes constructive posts and YOU have to flame me. What is your major malfunction?
Are you Just Jealous of our Powers?
Would you Like a Hug?
---------------------------------
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The Knight
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Posted - 2006.01.19 18:31:00 -
[61]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Originally by: Iberi
Originally by: mirel yirrin
If your clever enough, I suggest Checking out out Forums and Killboard.
Oh, no! I can't believe. KORKY is attacking Apoc! May be you have been dreaming?
Most dangerous target you could attack is unarmed Probe.
Everyone else makes constructive posts and YOU have to flame me. What is your major malfunction?
Are you Just Jealous of our Powers?
Would you Like a Hug?
I wouldn't mind a hug actually.
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randy andy
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Posted - 2006.01.19 18:50:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Sentinel Roqeze
Edited by: Sentinel Roqeze on 19/01/2006 17:08:06
I think your post went FUBAR, Andy, unless you were QFT, lol!
it did indeed go FUBAR on me twice and it was home time so i went home and this is my last post today as i am about to go on -line after i make a cup of tea and get some food
all i can think of at moment is that some of you have isk Fever and there is isk in them There hills
or the old saying gold fever"there is Gold in them there Hills"
Have Fun and not get Piff'd when you lose a ship..
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Graven Threndor
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Posted - 2006.01.19 19:07:00 -
[63]
Why not pay ransoms? Umm. You are a pirate, untrustworthy by nature. How can I be assured that once I've paid a ransom I won't be attacked anyway?
Answer: I cannot. You are a pirate, and untrustworthy by nature. There is no way for me to feel safe in this situation. You are a pirate, I cannot trust your word.
If you destroy my ship and/or pod after I've paid a ransom, what recourse do I have? Answer: None.
So, no ransom payment. If there was some game mechanic that prevented you from finishing me off after I've paid the ransom, then that'd be a different story. Since there are no guarantees, and since you are a pirate, untrustworthy by nature, then I risk even greater loss if I pay your ransom.
Besides, if I'm stupid enough to get caught in a situation where I'm facing death by pirates, I probably deserve what I'm gonna get. 
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Indigo Callypso
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Posted - 2006.01.19 19:09:00 -
[64]
You pirates have to understand, that you are asking for a rational decision made on economic factors at a time when an emotional decision is the first one likely to be made.
I, myself, would not pay a ransom simply because the mental cost far outstrips some in-game economic cost. I just don't pay extortion. No rancor towards you...I just don't.
For anyone to call that "stupid" just shows how narrow their mind is. Not everyone views the world from your perspective.
I could be wrong, but I don't really believe anyone, while facing your guns, is calculating the isk lost/gained by accepting/rejecting your ransom. They are more likely angry they got caught and don't want to do anything that would make you happy...at that moment.
Some, perhaps many, have asked themselves the "what if" questions and decided before hand they will or will not pay. I fall into this category for reasons already stated.
Those calling others stupid for not paying and then stating economic reasons to do so are verging on hypocrisy. Being a pirate, you run risks. You earn poorly compared to miners/industrialists...at least as related by pirates on these forums. Conclusion: If you are not stupid, and of course ISK rules, then you should be miners/industrialists instead of pirates.
Obviously, isk doesn't rule and you have your reasons for being a pirate that are great reasons...for you. So too, does the ransom victim have reasons, great to him/her, for not paying.
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Sentinel Roqeze
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Posted - 2006.01.19 19:09:00 -
[65]
Originally by: randy andy
Originally by: Sentinel Roqeze
Edited by: Sentinel Roqeze on 19/01/2006 17:08:06
I think your post went FUBAR, Andy, unless you were QFT, lol!
it did indeed go FUBAR on me twice and it was home time so i went home and this is my last post today as i am about to go on -line after i make a cup of tea and get some food
all i can think of at moment is that some of you have isk Fever and there is isk in them There hills
or the old saying gold fever"there is Gold in them there Hills"
Have Fun and not get Piff'd when you lose a ship..
When I lose a ship, I laugh - I congratulate the pilot, I have a cigarette and grab another drink. It's a goddam game dude!
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HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2006.01.19 19:10:00 -
[66]
Cause the insurance is less than 40mil and those Miner IIs are cheap
Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel |
Ikvar
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Posted - 2006.01.19 19:39:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Iroquois
Maybe he's heard of the "Krazed Killer Something or Anothers" from Molden Heath before and didn't think you could actually kill the remaining 10% of his structure?
PIZZOWNED!
Originally by: Avon
I actually enjoy crafting in EQ2.
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Lucas Garin
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Posted - 2006.01.19 20:53:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Indigo Callypso
Those calling others stupid for not paying and then stating economic reasons to do so are verging on hypocrisy. Being a pirate, you run risks. You earn poorly compared to miners/ industrialists...at least as related by pirates on these forums. Conclusion: If you are not stupid, and of course ISK rules, then you should be miners/ industrialists instead of pirates.
Obviously, isk doesn't rule and you have your reasons for being a pirate that are great reasons... for you. So too, does the ransom victim have reasons, great to him/her, for not paying.
That's a good point. For all you pirates jabbering about people being stupid with their money, you picked a relatively low paying, high risk profession to get into. You obviously don't care about money more than anything else because if you did, you wouldn't be a pirate. You'd be an industrialist or miner and be making loads more than you are now. You're in it for the lifestye, thrill, fun, whatever.
I pretty much make my living rat hunting, PC or NPC. With what I make in a week I could replace my ship ten times over. If I lose it big deal. I have another just like it sitting in a hanger ready to go. I'll never pay a ransom because no matter what it's money YOU don't get, which is the whole point. For myself and many others, it's not about economics. It's about denying YOU your booty. Making YOUR life harder. Being a criminal shouldn't be easy, and my job is to make YOUR life harder, whether it's blowing you up or denying you your booty if you get me. Being a pirate and then complaining about people not paying ransoms is ridiculous. Who cares why they do or don't pay? Just be a pirate and don't worry about it. Yaaarrrr!
Complaining about it only makes you look like sissy girly man pirates.
Pirate A: "Doeth my ship look good in pink?"
Pirate B: "Oh. My. God. Thath's fabulouth!"
Pirate A: "And my warheadths are pink taffida!"
Pirate B: "That is justh to die for! Leth's go raiding!"
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Montague Zooma
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Posted - 2006.01.20 00:55:00 -
[69]
Quote:
Good post - that's where it's at. Many people don't value the time they spend developing their wealth / items and they lose out because of it.
Another example of the drawbacks of applying real world logic to a virtual world. Eve is a game. It's supposed to be fun. There are a variety of entertaining ways to earn isk.
So, if losing a ship means doing something else that's fun for a while in order to replace it, then it's no big deal. It's all about the entertainment, not the isk.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
One noob. One corp. One complete waste of 1.6 million isk. |
Kinsy
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Posted - 2006.01.20 01:19:00 -
[70]
Yup, you asked for too much.
A guy in a Deimos took me on many years ago when i was mining in an Apoc. He tried to ransom me for 10m. Know how much the fitting was? Barely a mill, even with Miner IIs. I told him to get stuffed, went down and called the crew...Next week i spent my entire time hunting him back.
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PsyBoRG
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Posted - 2006.01.20 01:27:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Makree
Edited by: Makree on 18/01/2006 23:01:00
Is there a school that you pathtic accountant pirates go to?
Oh, I forgot, there is. S*****rdly - The Pathetic Pirate Accountants.
as i am not excactly known for having a good choice of words or being diplomatic i will not comment on that other then
let your guns do the talking and come c us if you feel the need to express your self further
...
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2006.01.20 01:49:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Indigo Callypso
You pirates have to understand, that you are asking for a rational decision made on economic factors at a time when an emotional decision is the first one likely to be made.
I, myself, would not pay a ransom simply because the mental cost far outstrips some in-game economic cost. I just don't pay extortion. No rancor towards you...I just don't.
If someone is not prepared to deal with pirates (breaking free or arranging a ransom release), then low sec must be a dreadful place to live. Going to low sec is a way of accepting that you will have to deal with player related obstacles. If you let your emotions decide how you communicate with a stranger, you have issues or is simply not fit for the low sec game.
Calculate a limit for how much you're willing to pay for your current ship BEFORE undocking. When you're in danger, follow your preset decisions without hesitation. If you're in an emotional storm, you will probably question your notes, but follow them anyhow as they were written in a time where you had a more reasonable state of mind. It is like not getting into the drivers seat when you know you've been drinking. You may feel like you're in control, but you're not. Let your sober (non-stressed) reasoning overrule your spontaneous thoughts. If you have decided that "my mods are worth 2 mil, the insurance cost is 31 mil. If the ransom demand is lower than 25 mil I will definately pay no matter what.", you won't ever have to regret anything but being foolish enough to get caught.
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Durethia
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Posted - 2006.01.20 03:10:00 -
[73]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Something that puzzles me in general.
Couple nights ago me and the crew Found a Apoc wandering around low sec. I'll spare you the gory details but he eneded up 10% struc with a convo window open. I proffer a 40mil Ransom, and he Tells me to get stuffed, cos its cheaper to build a new one. The collective Response was "WTF".
So Riddle Me this;
Why do people not Pay Ransoms? Even when they are incredibly low? is it just being totally AP and not wanting to perpetuate the cycle, or are they just plain Stupid?
I was ransomed in 0.0 a couple of days ago. First time being ransomed.. and I paid. I would like to announce, that they kept their word and my little pod drifted to the gate back into Empire.
However, I should have told them to pound sand. Here's the reason why.
First, we are at war with two corps. One of those corps... well, I don't have implants and probably never decide to get them. Or, if I do have them, I'll install them as I would fly a ship into battle... only if I can get reasonable benefit in skill training time and cost, by the time I'm podded again.
For a person in my position, I would have been thankful to keep my ship... here's the ransom. But, instead, they thought I might have had a full set of +4 implants... you destroy a 40 million dollar battleship... and what does it cost for a clone that can support that many SPs? Definately not 40 million... not unless you are sure they have millions in implants and there isn't an implant scanner that I know of on the market. The ransom asked was a bit extreme too, so I figured they were amateurs. The amount asked should never be anywhere near reasonable potential value of what you already destroyed... at least to me, becuase I don't fly with implants.
I paid, I wanted to see if they would let me go and they did.
If they did it again, I would very respectfully direct them to a hammer and a big pile of sand.
I don't understand why the pirates obviously hope that the person has more in implants than he has dumped into his ship. You destroy my ship, you destroyed your leverage in demanding any reasonable ransom. Worse, you have no idea what kind of implants a stranger might have, if any at all. Why gamble? We may clearly see he's flying a 20 million dollar ship, don't destroy the ship, and base your ransom on what you know he'll lose.
The first time I was hit for a ransom, they got lucky through my curiosity. But, such a situation will never render a paid ransom again. I'll pay to keep what I already have. And if you take that, then to hell with a ransom, I need the money to rebuild what I lost.
"without a hostage, there is no ransom" -- The Big Lebowski
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Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2006.01.20 07:07:00 -
[74]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Why do people not Pay Ransoms? Even when they are incredibly low? is it just being totally AP and not wanting to perpetuate the cycle, or are they just plain Stupid?
I think some are simply filthy rich and not willing to feed others.
Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner
http://members.aol.com/pacalbalan/TheParatwa/Randuin2.jpg |
Grankor
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Posted - 2006.01.20 07:27:00 -
[75]
Some people take the 'non-terrorist' attitude.
I ransomed a hauler for 100 isk. The pilot said no. So I podded her. Loot was worth maybe 2 mil, hauler was iteron mk 4. I dont get it.
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BrerLapin
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Posted - 2006.01.20 08:23:00 -
[76]
I must admit Ive seriously reconsidered paying a ransom.
Mainly cause Ive never been ransommed Ive locked & destroyed. Which is funny cause Ive always left with enough cash to cover ships & modules, I assume that any NORMAL pirate would be happy to let you pass both ways with the ship cost in his pocket.
But Im doubting a pirate would be happy with half my cargo. Seems like they just wanna blow you up for fat modules ¼.¼
Ive yet to work out if these ganking morons are just mentally mpaired or their just being thugs ? But Id geuss most people assume all pirates are now gankers.
Originally by: Market Scanner
Maybe CCP needs to remove all 3D models of NPC's and replace them with white 2D squares with the NPC's name typed in the square. I miss pong.
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Izo Azlion
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Posted - 2006.01.20 11:05:00 -
[77]
The reason people dont pay ransoms is because of gankers. Those who dont give a crap about your ship or your pod, and just blow you up because they can, regardless of any profit.
Then, when we, the guys that actually have a heart, come along and ransom someone. We're made to look bad because they go "no" and we have to carry it out then.
I enjoy blowing a ship up. I prefer making a couple of mil and warping off.
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Imaran
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Posted - 2006.01.20 11:16:00 -
[78]
Locked for flaming and trolling.
*click*
RAWRRRRRR!!!!!1111
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