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Serithin
Rage Against Machine
10
   |
Posted - 2013.09.30 02:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am just wondering about this and by all means feel free to post suggestions.
When will we ever see the dreaded minmatar caldari mix of half missile half auto cannon shield tank beast.
Personally there is too much amarr mix in the game , for me at least.
We the players should build this hybrid of awesomeness and request it comes into the game.
Minmatar have Minn/amarr and Minn/Gall that's it amarr have Amarr/minn Amarr/caldari and now Amarr/Gall.
there must be balance is this or I will become a slave again and I don't want that so yea.
Any ideas on a minny/ caldari concept I definitely think it should be 50-50 missile ACs/Art. and possibly an armor tank.
Feel free to discuss any hybrid ideas.
Will try and find my old notes for some rough numbers discussions |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
OLD MAN GANG
565
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 02:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
minamatar is already mix of minmatar (projectiles) and caldari (missiles) so we are not going to see pirate dread that would be same than minmatar dread was before with dual weapons. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
392
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 02:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
You want there to be a ship that requires Caldari skills... That armor tanks?
dude wat |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
230
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 03:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
They tried, but the best they could do was the Rattlesnake. 
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
502
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 04:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah... Not a whole lot you can do with two groups that already use shields and missiles.
The best you could even really consider coming out with is a ECM projectile shield boat. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
3312
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 04:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
My suspicion is that Guristas might be made into pure missile slingers when the DEVs get around to rebalancing the pirate faction ships.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
85
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 04:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Typhoon fleet issue |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
85
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 04:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:My suspicion is that Guristas might be made into pure missile slingers when the DEVs get around to rebalancing the pirate faction ships.
It's a good thought but they used to be that and CCP always wants to try new stuff even when not necessary. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
3313
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 04:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Spod wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:My suspicion is that Guristas might be made into pure missile slingers when the DEVs get around to rebalancing the pirate faction ships. It's a good thought but they used to be that and CCP always wants to try new stuff even when not necessary.
They might be made similar to what the Blood Raider ships are like... equal portions Ewar from one race and the weapon system of another race. Damps in addition to Missiles.
Now that I think about it... that might be a tad overpowered given the effectiveness of dampener Condors and Kestrels around the FW warzone.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
123
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 05:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aglais wrote:You want there to be a ship that requires Caldari skills... That armor tanks?
dude wat
Why not? There's a ship that requires Amarr skills and shield tanks.
That said:
Angel Cartel: Gallente-Minmatar
Blood Raider: Amarr-Minmatar
Guristas: Caldari-Gallente
Sanshas: Amarr-Caldari
Serpentis: Gallente-Minmatar
And now:
SoE: Amarr-Gallente
So, of the 'pirate' factions, four require Gallente, three Amarr, three Minmatar, and two Caldari. The other things that stand out are that now there will be more armour than shield tanking pirate ships, and that of the six faction ship types, one has no damage bonus (Blood Raiders), ones does guns (Angels), one lasers (Sanshas), one hybrids (Serpentis), and two drones (Guristas, SoE). No pirate ship lines does missiles.
Clearly we need a shield-missile line, and clearly it should not involve the Gallente (who are not known for either of these features), and should involve the Caldari. That means Minmatar-Caldari or Amarr (Khanid)-Caldari. The problem is that the Caldari already provide many shield-missile ships, and that it's hard to justify needing Amarr skills (or Minmatar, for that matter) for such a ship.
|
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated
Executive Outcomes
146
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Posted - 2013.09.30 05:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
There already are armor missile ships, Vengeance and Sacrilege. They're both Khanid T2's. Also Gurista ship line does have missile bonuses - Worm (50% rocket/lm velocity), Gila (same bonus, extends to HAMS/HMs) and Rattlesnake (same bonus for cruises/torps).
If anything, those would really be Khanid ships and given SoE who aren't really pirate or navy-aligned got their faction ships, it wouldn't exactly be impossible to have a ship specific to them - possibly co-developed by the Caldari, since the factions are allied.
Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet? |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
524
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 06:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Perhaps the reason behind what you are talking about is that we have two Gal-Min ship lines but lack Cal-Min one (angels could be one, but it's too late to do anything about that).
If not for that we would have a perfect pattern with central symmetry where every race was linked to 3 pirate lines, depending on your "secondary" race(es). |
Naomi Anthar
118
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Posted - 2013.09.30 07:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dude please ... you spread that bullshit around - some may even believe.
So as some people mentioned ... we have too much Minmatar mix NOT THE OTHER WAY around.
So yeah if you fear to become slave again - you should, since you are slave to false statements and misinformation.
What actually we should get is : another Amarr/Caldari combo to even Serpentis / Angel. But hell no more love for gallente or minmatar. |
Maxim Hibra
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.09.30 10:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
They should just add the Equilibrium of Mankind (EoM) ships in the game. They fly Amarr hull with shield tank and railguns. This would both balance the amount of pirate factions (currently we have two Gal/Min factions, so adding a second Amarr/Cal would make sense) and allow them to rebalance the Sansha ships into armour tankers (it's pretty weird how every Sansha rat armour tanks, their implant set boosts armour tanking and they have no facton/officer shield tanking mods, yet the player-owned Sansha ships shield tank). |
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 11:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
i agree with the op on one thing and that is that there is a caldari-minmatar missing.
but let me short recap.
Blood: Amarr-Min + Neuts + Web + Armor
Angel: Min-Gal + Gun Damage + Range + Shield or Armor
Serpentis: Gal-Min + Gun Damage + webs + Armor
Guristas: Cald-Gal + Drone Damage + resist + Shield
Sansha: Amarr-Min + Gun Damage + Tracking + Shield
SOE: Amarr-Gal + Drone Damage + Scan + Armor
i dont see any Caldari-Minmatar, thats why i would say why not. But the question is to what would they belong and what should be their boni may.
New Faction: Min-Cald + Missile Damage + TP + Shield
but that would be pretty close to lets say matar already.
|
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
123
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 13:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:There already are armor missile ships, Vengeance and Sacrilege. They're both Khanid T2's. Also Gurista ship line does have missile bonuses - Worm (50% rocket/lm velocity), Gila (same bonus, extends to HAMS/HMs) and Rattlesnake (same bonus for cruises/torps).
But no DPS or real application bonus, and a low number of launchers. No, that's not a missile boat set up. It's a "let's pretend they have missiles" set up.
|
Aramil Neogi
Applied Creations
The Fendahlian Collective
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 16:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
Sansha: Amarr-Min + Gun Damage + Tracking + Shield
Think you meant Amarr-Caldari there. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
395
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 20:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:My suspicion is that Guristas might be made into pure missile slingers when the DEVs get around to rebalancing the pirate faction ships.
Honestly, I really like this. Split weapons, with one being drones, is... Well, a little awkward. Especially because lol drones.
I'd really like to see the Gila remain exceptionally tanky but turn into a really solid multipurpose pure missile ship, same with the Worm and Rattler.
Though then you'd have two Scorpion variants with huge tank and missiles... |
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 23:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
just got a small idea on a caldari-minmatar mix the hull is bonused on ecm and projectiles and minmatar speed (maybe shield maybe armor). Else i cant find a hole anymore in the pirate mixture for this combination. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
391
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 23:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
You could just have Serpentis or Angels change from Gal-Min to Min-Cal.
Lore explanation would be they have found that they can make their ships easier to operate/cheaper to build/whatever by changing some of the technologies in their ships, so are revamping their fleets. Sponsored by hard liners in Caldari, whatever.
Give a couple of months notice and people have time to train a new BS V if the guns stay similar. And with the new change incoming for gun training a new gun spec wouldn't be that long a train either if the gun types changed.
It'd be a lot more of a dramatic rebalance than most ships, probably more on level with what is currently being done to Marauders, but they could do this without having to introduce a new group to the game. & possibly without even introducing new ships, just some changes to which race gives what skills. |
Serithin
Rage Against Machine
10
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 01:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
Okay so after reading all the ideas so far I can say this.
1. serpentis and angels are kind of redundant it more like one is a hybrid version for gallente and the other is projectiles for minmatar.
2. Fast high damage Missile Hit and run skirmish boat
3. instead of tanking it just make it a high resist ship with more guns less tanking
4. we all know there are ships out the that are like these but that can be said about any pirate faction.
5. where does it fit in the niche spot / what is it special pirate bonus
6. also this is to try and make a model for a minmatar/caldari cross ship through the community not to bash on it and say "Its been done we need moar this" so please constructive thoughts so we can come to a conclusion of an awesome hybrid cross.
7. to any of the nay sayers I also believe all pirate factions should be made playable I.E. EoM Caldari/amarr railgun boats |
STush T
Capital Sin
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 02:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
I think for lore reason the SoE ships should have to train all 4 empire ship lines. Ridicules you say, but it would be a lore appropriate decision. To balance that out, make the ships more powerful. Give the ships bonuses to projectile fired, drone guided, laser shooting missiles. Seriously though, maybe give them a bonus to things unrelated to dps, after all SoE isnt an aggressive faction. Maybe no turret or missile slots but bonuses to ewar. Course that makes them useless unless they're in a fleet. . . |
Pbatt
Pelican.
Cult of War
11
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 07:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'm actually quite suprised no one considered a shield resistance bonus combined with a tracking bonus.
Tie into that a role bonus of 25% damage for projectile turrets and I could see a 5/6/4 pirate cruiser with a similar BS shiptype which instead of a shield resistance bonus trades in for a missile ROF bonus alongside a missile explosion radius bonus. The role bonus for this shiptype would be a 25% reduced signature radius at all times whether under MWD or not. That is something uniquely minmatar imo. Small signature radius shield tanking projectile boats is minny and high resist shield tanking missile boats is caldari.
Of course I could just be totally wrong! :P |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
876
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 08:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:My suspicion is that Guristas might be made into pure missile slingers when the DEVs get around to rebalancing the pirate faction ships.
Maybe, but there's already a perfectly good line of faction missile ships. Introducing another would have to have some special feature about it, otherwise it's just pointless duplication. |
Silenciel
French Kiss Singularity
Astromechanica Federatis
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 08:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
No.
SOE is not pirate faction.
Does any pirate faction have stations in hi and low-sec ? No.
SOE yes.
SOE is full Gallente friend : +8 standing. It's more than between Amarr and Caldari.
And if you do combat mission for SOE, you get the same as Gallente. Shooting Caldaris and Amarrs are commons.
SOE is more like Khanids or Thukkers wich have actually their own ships and own technology. They are respectively Amarr and Minmatar skills revelant.
So, talking about SOE ships with Amarr/Gallente skills is irrevelant. |
HiddenPorpoise
BG-1
The Craniac
76
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 09:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Silenciel wrote:So, talking about SOE ships with Amarr/Gallente skills is irrevelant.
Someone didn't watch the announcement. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
791
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 09:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Amarr/Gallente does not compute, will be more like GALLENTE/amarr (note the capitalization) as they have no idea what to do with or to Amarr .. the Amarr tiericide changes have been all over the map with very little consistency other than being seemingly random.
Won't make a lick of difference though as SoE are peaceniks and the ships will probably be geared towards cloaking exploration with whopper cargo hold and a semi-effective RR capability,
Quote:..designed to support extended, discreet travel in hostile areas of deep space.
doesn't exactly scream "OMG, wicked!"  |
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