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Sticky:[Rubicon] Warp Speed and Acceleration

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 18 post(s)

CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 7588	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:59:00 - [1] - Quote Before we start, here's the correct music to accompany this thread. Hello everyone! We're ready now to start posting feedback threads about some Rubicon balance changes, in preparation for the first public version of Rubicon hitting SISI next week! This thread is going to cover our changes to warp speeds and warp acceleration, which have been rightfully getting a lot of buzz since we unveiled them in the Rubicon announcement live stream. Previously, in EVE Online: For anyone that's not aware, at the moment each ship has an attribute called warpSpeedMultiplier that affects its max speed in warp. It is affected by a set of rigs and some Strategic Cruiser subsystems. In practice this attribute is almost entirely useless because the amount of time you spend accelerating to and decelerating from your max warp speed is currently fixed. At most normal warp distances, ships spend very little (often no) time at max warp speed. This sucks in a lot of ways. It makes those aforementioned rigs and subsystems useless, it prevents meaningful differentiation between sizes of ships, and it puts hard minimums on how fast we can make any ship warp. We've wanted to redo this system for a long time, and a failed attempt was actually made back in the leadup to Retribution. For Rubicon, CCP Masterplan has finally freed us from the shackles of a crappy warp acceleration backend, and together we're going to be revamping the balance around warp speeds. Details! After the Winter expansion, the same attribute that sets max warp speed will also modify the acceleration and deceleration of the ship at warp, so that a ship that warps fast will actually warp fast. The current design has the fulcrum set on T1 Cruisers. If you're flying a T1 Cruiser with no modifications to your warp speed you will not notice any difference warping after the patch. Every ship that warps faster than a cruiser will see their acceleration speed up (and therefore see significant reductions in overall time warping) and every ship larger than a cruiser will see their acceleration slow down (and therefore spend more time in warp). The small ships are being sped up by a larger degree than the big ships are being slowed down, so the average warp speed of an EVE ship is going to be getting faster. It's important to note that this change does not affect align time. This only changes the amount of time a ship spends from when they enter warp (when they become unlockable) until they exit. We're also creating more distinct levels of warp speed between ship groups (at the moment destroyers, cruiser, BCs and BS all warp the same speed). Most T2 ships will be slightly faster than their T1 versions (more if their role demands it) to reflect their more advanced construction. The result of these changes will be that gangs of small ships will be able to travel across large areas of space much more quickly to find fights, people will have better decisions available to them when picking the ship to bring to a fight, and clever wings of interceptors or interdictors will be able to loop around ahead of hostile battleship fleets to cut them off. We're strongly considering adding more ways to affect your warp speed at some point in the future, but nothing has been decided on that yet. Numbers! Here's a chart of how long it takes for different ships to make warps of different lengths now. And here's the same chart showing the current design for Rubicon. You'll notice that we've actually compressed the far sides, so freighters will have a much higher max warp speed and some interceptors are actually losing some max warp speed. In practice though every interceptor will be going much much faster for every normal length warp and we wanted to keep the travel time for freighters in a reasonable range so we're quite confident that both those changes are the right call. Small ships will be making warps much much faster than before, and larger ships will move with speeds more befitting their massive bulk and power. The best way to get your heads around these changes is to try them out, so thankfully these changes will be on Singularity with the first public version scheduled for next week. We're always interested in your feedback, but we'll be especially interested in hearing what people think once they've had a chance to try the new warp system for themselves on Sisi. We're really excited to be able to make these changes and we think they are going to be a very significant positive step for EVE. Let us know what you think in this thread, and look to Sisi next week for your first chance to try them out for yourselves! Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/


CCP Masterplan C C P C C P Alliance 1220	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:03:00 - [2] - Quote ENGAGE! "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á\| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 7591	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:11:00 - [3] - Quote Tubrug1 wrote: Why are Freighters becoming faster? They're getting faster for long warps, slower for short warps. We didn't want to have speeds too low with the new system, as it would have been easy for the slowest ships to become prohibitive. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 7591	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:12:00 - [4] - Quote Kismeteer wrote: How painful is it going to be to fit a cyno to an inty? Because I found a new favorite cyno ship. claw - Bubble immunity, 2 wcs, 4k mwd speed, 2.8 align, 30m sig, enough for one light with current cargohold at cyno 4. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/


CCP Masterplan C C P C C P Alliance 1223	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:21:00 - [5] - Quote DJ FunkyBacon wrote: These changes are incredible. Obviously this is CCP Masterplan's doing. This has been something that has bugged me for a while about the warp code. 8 pages of math later, and we have something that I think is going to be much more fun all around. "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á\| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law


CCP Masterplan C C P C C P Alliance 1223	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:32:00 - [6] - Quote Green Gambit wrote: Presumably groups will still continue to warp at the speed of the slowest ship in the group? Yes, that will still work the same way "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á\| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 7611	Posted - 2013.10.02 17:09:00 - [7] - Quote Arec Bardwin wrote: Will there be any changes to the warp speed rigs? Plan is to keep them the same, as the bonuses they provide are pretty awesome under the new system. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/


CCP Masterplan C C P C C P Alliance 1239	Posted - 2013.10.02 19:18:00 - [8] - Quote Liam Inkuras wrote: So are you saying, that I can actually intercept in my interceptor now? I know, crazy isn't it? :) "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á\| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law


CCP Masterplan C C P C C P Alliance 1241	Posted - 2013.10.02 19:37:00 - [9] - Quote Berluth Luthian wrote: Will agility affect warp acceleration? Will my low grade nomad implants have a higher demand? No. Agility only factors in to sub-warp mobilty. (They will help you hit the 75% alignment slightly quicker, but once the warp kicks in, you need something else like a rig) "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á\| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 7684	Posted - 2013.10.03 01:59:00 - [10] - Quote Hey guys, I'm not going to be posting a lot in these threads between now and Monday, when these changes hit sisi. Just want to reassure you all that I'm still going to be reading every post in this thread and that I appreciate the feedback. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/



CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 7768	Posted - 2013.10.07 13:43:00 - [11] - Quote Hey guys, I'm back from vacation and am now fully caught up on this thread. I'm gonna reply to a bunch of questions now, and we're not far off from these changes getting onto Sisi so you can all test them out for yourselves! Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 7768	Posted - 2013.10.07 13:43:00 - [12] - Quote Terje Teinturier wrote: Is it possible that the session timer becomes a problem for faster ships traversing relatively small systems? Players may run into it in small systems if they warp very very fast after jumping, but since you can easily get around it in the same way as when you want to burn back (just wait a few seconds while under gatecloak) we don't really see a problem. FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote: How do accelerator gates work with this? Will the speeds still be from ship attributes? So a frig can beat a cruiser if activating at the same time? Yup. Acceleration gates just start a normal warp behind the scenes, so they will get the same changes. Wolf Kyosuke wrote: Is it correct for me to presume that, despite these changes, it is still considered an exploit to avoid concord by warping either on or off grid after ganking a miner in a destroyer even though it would be easier to do now? Yes, avoiding CONCORD's response is always an exploit no matter how you do it. Cage Man wrote: Is this going to impact fleet warp mechanics, ie if a fleet warps at the same time, fleet warp and everyone is full speed aligned, will the whole fleet still come out of warp together or will the smaller ships land first ? Fleet warps will continue to lock the whole fleet into the slowest warp speed of any ship catching the warp. When a group uses fleet/wing/squad warps everyone that warped together will still arrive at the same time. Debir Achen wrote: I note shuttles, pods, and noobships aren't listed. Currently, shuttles are 2/6 (same as frig), noobships 1/3 (same as cruiser, etc) and I believe pods are 1/3 also. What happens to these post-retribution? Shuttles will remain equal with T1 frigates, Rookie ships and Capsules will remain the same as T1 Cruisers. ZoraTestra wrote: Are you taking into account the Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' Warp Drive Speed series implants? Those will continue to work in the same way as before, but will now be useful since the attribute they affect will also affect acceleration. Altrue wrote: First, thanks for finally changing this mechanic ! You rock ! Now about the changes themselves, they are pretty good... EXCEPT ! 1- Attack BC should warp faster than other BCs imo. 2- Where is the orca on your chart ? Capital ship ? (If yes, this is a very bad idea imo :D) 3- You killed my rigged 20Au/sec travel rapooooor :-( (because his base warp speed will now be 10 au /sec if I read the chart correctly) 1 - We don't feel that a warp speed increase on the Attack BCs is warranted, just as the attack frigs and cruisers don't get warp speed increases. 2 - Orca warps at battleship speeds 3 - Your raptor will actually make virtually any practical warp faster after these changes than before. The increase in acceleration rate more than counteracts the decrease in max warp speed. Marian Devers wrote: Question: In Rubicon, the "WarpSpeedMultiplier" will now affect warp speed acceleration. Why was this parameter chosen, instead of making SHIP MASS affect acceleration? We're very hesitant to attach even more things to the mass attribute right now. Doing it this way gave us better control over the balance we wanted to achieve. Warde Guildencrantz wrote: can we get a low slot module that increases warp speed? like a nano. This kind of thing is very possible, we're playing around with a bunch of options now. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 7768	Posted - 2013.10.07 14:08:00 - [13] - Quote And now a quick note on freighters. We knew that we wanted to expand the spread between the slowest warping ships and the fastest, and we didn't want to take the tempting but potentially damaging route of just buffing everything and making the galaxy smaller for every ship. Obviously there's a fine line to walk here, but I think we found a strong compromise with the amount that we raised the freighter and JF warp speeds. It is definitely an increase in their average warp times, which is intentional. But it's not back breaking and I believe that it's quite well balanced in relation to their massive cargoholds. For trips where faster warp speeds are needed, people always have the choice of taking smaller volumes in something like an industrial or DST. Options like adding rigs to freighters could very well happen someday, as we're fairly open that that idea and have been giving it some thought. However we're not going to commit to anything along those lines at this time. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 8135	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:06:00 - [14] - Quote I've got a few updates to bring to you all today. We've been making some tweaks to the numbers, moderating the changes to the far ends of the spectrum and adjusting the stats of the warp speed rigs and the warp speed T3 subsystems. Firstly, we have done another pass on the warp speeds by class. The default advantage for T2 ships is being reduced slightly from 12.5% to 10%. We're also increasing the speeds of a few of the slower classes (freighters, titans, battlecruisers and command ships) a tad and reducing the speed advantage of the faster ships a bit as well (bringing the top end to 8au/s instead of the previous 10au/s). It's important to note that even with this extra reduction, all interceptors will see gigantic improvements to their warp speeds for virtually all warp distances after Rubicon. Finally, we are also putting a cap on the deceleration speed that can be obtained for now. This cap is currently set to 2au/s (the declaration speed that a 6au/s warper hits by default, and twice the current hardcoded deceleration speed). This means that as ships start to travel faster than 6au/s they will start to hit diminishing returns. This cap is being put in place for a few reasons, mainly related to the appearance of ships as they arrive. Having ships appear to blink into place as they exit warp is not ideal as it breaks immersion and prevents players on the destination grid from seeing where the new ship came from. It also significantly reduces the benefits of skilled play (alignment, vigilance) and severely weakens one of the planned natural counters to the new interceptors (smartbombing tactics). At the max deceleration ships will still appear very quickly on grid, but it will always be visible which direction they came from and there will always be one second between their arrival on grid and the completion of the warp. The new post-Rubicon warp chart can be seen here, including the base warp speed changes and the deceleration cap. We are also tweaking the warp speed rigs (Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizers) to give them a penalty to ship CPU output (same penalty as drone rigs) instead of their current penalty to armor amount, to even the playing field for different types of tanking. And finally we are making a slight adjustment to the Gravitational Capacitor subsystems on the Tengu and Proteus. We are reducing their bonus to ship warp speed from 15% to 12.5%. This places a fully skilled Gravitation Capacitor T3 at 4.875au/s, or between the new warp speeds of Destroyers and Frigates. This may prove to be a bit too powerful, so we'll be watching it carefully after release and re-evaluating. Thanks for the feedback and testing so far everyone!


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 8143	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:06:00 - [15] - Quote BadAssMcKill wrote: Nice to see you admit you were wrong :3 My first post on this matter included: CCP Fozzie wrote: We'll be keeping a close eye on this both before launch and after. It's not my fault if you thought I was lying.


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 8151	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:49:00 - [16] - Quote Marlona Sky wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: And finally we are making a slight adjustment to the Gravitational Capacitor subsystems on the Tengu and Proteus. We are reducing their bonus to ship warp speed from 15% to 12.5%. This places a fully skilled Gravitation Capacitor T3 at 4.875au/s, or between the new warp speeds of Destroyers and Frigates. This may prove to be a bit too powerful, so we'll be watching it carefully after release and re-evaluating. People actually use those things? Not yet. But that has the potential to change for reasons that should be obvious considering the thread we're posting in.


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 8176	Posted - 2013.11.06 16:59:00 - [17] - Quote Gustav Mannfred wrote: question: if i fit 3x t1 warp rigs on a cruiser, and fitting a +15% implant, the cruiser reaches almost 6aus, will it also accelerate as fast as a frigate do? or will it just accelerate like frigs does it actually on tq? or overall: is the warpspeed acceleration depending on the max warpspeed or of the ship size? It's dependant on max warp speed. So in your example you'd accelerate and decelerate as fast as any other 6au/s ship.


CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance 8239	Posted - 2013.11.11 10:50:00 - [18] - Quote Kadesh Priestess wrote: What do numbers in accel/decel row mean? Are these numbers simply au/s^2, or some special coefficients? Would be glad to get some explanation. It's not in au/s^2, it's a dimensionless variable that plugs into the warp formula. I just chatted with CCP Masterplan about the question and he's going to write up some more details to go into an upcoming dev blog. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/

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