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Mercade	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:01:00 - [1] I feel morally obligated to share this, on account that it is absolutely attrocious behavior from one of the supposedly reputable business corporations of this game. I came to M.Corp on the basis of their reputation, to find an all encompassing BPC package that would provide me the ability to build as much large ammunition, equipment and as a bonus Battleships if possible. IT seemed evident from the forums that they were the people to talk to. Two days ago in the morning I found the chat on their website was wrong, but discovered the proper in game chat via the WTS forum after digging around. Even informed them that the advertised chat was wrong to help them out. Present my situation to Kert___ (don't know full name off top of my head) that I need all Large and medium ammo and guns excluding missiles, cruisers and battleships also as a bonus. After waiting 30 minutes for a reply I wasn't able to get a decent answer, so I asked for an evemail offer of anything that M.Corp could do, to help me out. I was told I would get that. That evening no evemail arrived. No one was available in their chat. So the next morning I spoke to Kert___ again. I was told packages were the best thing for me. And looking on their bio I saw: Minmatar Freedom Package - 12 Million isk 2x TEMPEST BPC 1x TYPHOON BPC ALL MINMATAR CRUISER BPC's ALL LARGE PROJECTILE TURRET BPC's LARGE AMMO BPC's THRASHER BPC MAMMOTH BPC So I asked for 4 racial packages to be escrowed to Roue an alt of mine who was in empire. I asked for a deal, was offered 4 for price of 3. Seemed it would do decently what I wanted so I accepted the deal, asking it be done ASAP. I was told it would take 4 hours. That evening I fly 30 jumps to location, find no escrow. So I try and contact Velios in channel, he doesn't respond and after 30 minutes of convo and chat in their sales channel I leave it for the next morning again. Now Velios next morning tells me not sure why but will come help make packages before work. I stay 5 minutes later then I should, and am late for work to get the trade done. I notice however that there are only 2 PRojectile BPC and 3 Hybrid. Velios says there is trade lag, so I assumed, honorable corporation wouldn't cheat me. They just aren't showing up, the rest of the ammo. And after all this work it seems he is who I should have talked to. So I trade in good faith. Only 5 bpc's is what I was given. Why? Because that post ambigiously doesn't say ALL large AMMO. They give what is in stock, though I had originally asked for soemthing that would cover this. Frustrated, angry and feeling like I wasted 72 hours I have to leave abruptly for work. This evening I convo Velios and the following insues. You judge for yourself. But personally I don't think any one in a business setting should ever tell someone shut up. IF you think I'm wrong.. Great. If you think I'm right, great also. I just don't like being told my business is inconsequential. After this log I was ejected from their sales corporation channel without comment. Freedom of speech, this is what was said. I hope Velios decides to learn a little about salesmanship and makes an appology. Log to follow Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
Aiya Adoria	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:02:00 - [2] Velios > hello Mercade > Do you have a minute to talk? Velios > yeah Velios > whats up? Mercade > I want to know if I can return these bpc's for a refund Velios > why??? Velios > they took over half an hout to prepare? Velios > you are the guy that picked them up as well arent you Velios > whats wrong with the bpc's? Velios > no on ein over 2 years has EVER retuened them, Mercade > I waited 3 days for service that wasn't rendered. I was patient and trusted in M.Corp's reputation. I haven't gotten what I ask the K person for or what you offered. Velios > you ordered package deals, racial Velios > and thats what you got Mercade > When I came to Mcorp sales channel I explained my situation. I needed large turrets and ammo of all types. The BS were not necessary. Velios > + more Mercade > I was told that the racial would give me that.. ti didn't Mercade > I received less then 1/3 of all large ammo Mercade > that is the WHOLE purpose I did business with you, for a package. a COMPLETE package Velios > so you are just unhappy that you didnt get some ammo? Velios > these take what... an hour to make Mercade > I want what I asked for. Velios > and you are returning 100+ bpc's because of that? Mercade > I'm returning 100+ BPC's because I was ignored, and not served for 3 days only to have what I wanted not given after it was an agreement. Mercade > Now... if you have the other ammo in large run BPC's and wish to give them, and finish out the packages fine. Mercade > I want a business deal with you. I think your corp has worked hard to make a good reputation at what it does. But I also paid 36mil for what? several BS bpc's and a little equipment and 5 ammo bpc's? Mercade > Maybe I'm wrong. But I asked for help, I explained what I needed, and I was lead to believe I would recieve that. No where does it say "ammo subject to availability". I even was fine with no DOminix BPC's when that is the KEY ship I needed Mercade > which is why I think it's easier just to return them all and I'll go back to trying to find what I need. Velios > i had to relog Velios > so... Mercade > NP. Velios > i am stunned frankly Velios > you order 4 racial packs, get ONE free! Velios > and still arent happy Mercade > HOnestly, look at it from my position, the customer's position. Velios > i am Velios > and the guy onyx got exactly the same and is very happy Mercade > I came to M.Corp with a mission. to get all ammo, turrets, cruisers, battleships if possible but optional. I said I had all missiles, and frigates and small ammo. K said well we only do packages. Mercade > I said I don't need battleships but I'll take them IF IT GETS ME ALL THE AMMO and turrets anmd cruisers etc. I need to build a full market cover, not battleships. Velios > so what are you missing that you didnt get Mercade > I was told that the racial packages would do that. Velios > so just a few ammo bpc's Mercade > Between large projectile and large hybrid I have 5bpc's Mercade > between them Velios > so just ammo Velios > and you want to return the lot Mercade > Yes.. and you know it might just be ammo. But again look at it from my position Velios > how about asking me if i can do the rest? Mercade > K didn't send me the evemail promised... didn't put up the escrow promised. 2 days of no progress for no apparent reason. Mercade > scroll up Velios > if you looked at my bio (and kerts) it says racial packs give ammo bpc's not all of them Mercade > Mercade > Now... if you have the other ammo in large run BPC's and wish to give them, and finish out the packages fine. Velios > she couldnt put so many items on escrow Mercade > then why didn't kert tell me that WHEN I said that's what I want Mercade > I work in sales.. I run a small business.. If someone comes in and tells me what they want, and I just point at a no clearly posted sign instead of helping them out, then I am wrong..
Mercade	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:03:00 - [3] alt mistake, we all make them. cont. Velios > i am annoyed at your attitude over a few incidental bpc's when you walked away with the deal of the century this morning Velios > trade it back to kert now Mercade > This is not something I expect... which is why I accepted the trade of 36million even though I didn't see all the BPC's Mercade > I trusted MCorp that they weren't showing Velios > trust? Velios > i didnt cheat you Mercade > I know.. which is what I just said. Velios > i worked damn hard today getting that ready Velios > ok enough talk Velios > get ready to trade all bpc back Velios > you wont find anything like what i sold you anywhere in eve Mercade > How is that the deal of the centry Mercade > i didn't get what I asked MCORP to help me get Velios > the 36m isk is inconsiquential to us, i would rather sell to someone else Mercade > THat's like saying someone who gets a ferrari cheap got the best when they wanted a pickup truck Velios > shut up Mercade > Fine.. if my business means that little to you.. I wnat my money back. Velios > your business is fine, your attitude is ridiculous Velios > give them back Mercade > You have 1 last chance to not talk to me that way Velios > give them back Mercade > put the money in the trade Velios > i dont play this game to deal with people like you Velios > in 2 years i have never met anyone like you Mercade > they are all in the trade, put the money in the trade. Velios > thanks for your time Velios > thansk for wasting mine I was then kicked. take it for what it's worth. But I don't like being kicked to the curb. Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
thoth foc	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:09:00 - [4] i know a tear had reached my eye by the second paragraph.. so cruel.. so heartless.. --thoth [5], ex-Curse Alliance ex-DSMA
Mercade	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:10:00 - [5] Edited by: Mercade on 22/01/2006 04:10:40 In business all you have is your word and how you treat your customers. I could careless what anyone thinks, but I think that issue should be shared. EDIT: Hence the creation of the better business Bureau. Some people like to know what they are dealing with. Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
autoexec	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:11:00 - [6] Originally by: Mercade Velios > thanks for your time Velios > thansk for wasting mine Quoted for truth! You got issues Mercade. They can't be fixed in-game. -- autoexec.eve "If your enemy defeats you by deceiving you, you were conquered by your own ignorance"
Mercade	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:12:00 - [7] Originally by: autoexec Originally by: Mercade Velios > thanks for your time Velios > thansk for wasting mine Quoted for truth! You got issues Mercade. They can't be fixed in-game. How? By expecting a fair and upfront business discussion from one of the most respected business corporations in the game? I think Velios should go take lessons from the guys at NAGA. THEY KNOW what it means to deal with your customers. Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
MrSpock	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:20:00 - [8] Thank God for a free market, in addition to the joy I attain from laughing at people like you. The one and only Operation Infinite Justice
Mercade	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:25:00 - [9] Originally by: MrSpock Thank God for a free market, in addition to the joy I attain from laughing at people like you. Freemarket exactly. Which is why I asked for my money back. Lot of sister corp support here. Can't you just admit it was bad business. No response. evemails offered never sent Escrows promised never made Questions asked not truthfully answered (Evasively worded) and then when I ask simply to just for a refun. Customer insulted and my business is told to be insubstantial. Let every other corp out there who wants to buy 4 racial packages know that they aren't worth it to M.Corp. Velios said it right there. 36mil isn't worth his time, you aren't worth his time. That is bad business. The forum image I was presented did not match what I received, so I'm offering my point, I'm even including the storry and log for you to make your own conclusions. What more could you want as prospective M.Corp customer who might be concerned about their reputation? Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
Alu'rise	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:28:00 - [10] I don't see why you are all being so hard on Mercade. If I was treated the same way he was, I would be here venting too. Rude customer service is rude customer service. M.Corp doesn't appear to care about customers. I mean... "shut up"?? If a salesperson ever said that to me no matter how I was acting I would have them fired. And you know what? They would be. You just don't treat people like that. Mercade was obviously agitated and and good salesperson would try to solve the problem instead of belittling it. I agree, Mercade. Bad business.
k starwind	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Mercade Minmatar Freedom Package - 12 Million isk 2x TEMPEST BPC 1x TYPHOON BPC ALL MINMATAR CRUISER BPC's ALL LARGE PROJECTILE TURRET BPC's LARGE AMMO BPC's THRASHER BPC MAMMOTH BPC No where in there does it say all large ammo BPC it just says you will gett some of the ammo bpc. you turned down a good deal Signature removed - File size too large.Laurelin
thoth foc	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:35:00 - [12] Whiney customers just arent worth the hassle.. Give them and good deal and they whine they still want more.. --thoth [5], ex-Curse Alliance ex-DSMA
Mercade	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:35:00 - [13] Originally by: k starwind Originally by: Mercade Minmatar Freedom Package - 12 Million isk 2x TEMPEST BPC 1x TYPHOON BPC ALL MINMATAR CRUISER BPC's ALL LARGE PROJECTILE TURRET BPC's LARGE AMMO BPC's THRASHER BPC MAMMOTH BPC No where in there does it say all large ammo BPC it just says you will gett some of the ammo bpc. you turned down a good deal You're right it doesn't. SO why wasn't I told that when that's what I asked for? If you sell icecream and someone comes in saying they want sugar cones with lil sprinkles in the sugar cone oh and vanilla. And you give them vanilla icecream in a paper cup for a cone and point to a sign that says but it says vanilla in a cone. Are you right? No. They told you what they wanted, and you should have let them know. I would have just said thank you very much and left. Not spent 3 days and all my and their time on this. And then when the person comes back and says but this isn't a sugar cone this is paper. You say I'm sorry can I give you a sugar cone. and if they say I want my money back, then you either say no refunds, or here's your money back. Not, shut up. Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
Mercade	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:39:00 - [14] Originally by: thoth foc Whiney customers just arent worth the hassle.. Give them and good deal and they whine they still want more.. It's up to the customer to decide if the deal is worth it. I would have said no if straight up I read "Ammo subject to availability" I was told that they were out of dominix BPC's and got to chose a replacement. That degree of "conscious" knowledge of lacking product could go 5mm further and say. Hey I realise you ASKED FOR ALL THE AMMO, like it's important to you. We only have these 5 BPC's of the 15 that you want, is that ok? Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
k starwind	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:42:00 - [15] why dont you go out and buy all the large ammo BPO. they are not that expensive, then you can make your own BPC packages and sell them. Signature removed - File size too large.Laurelin <- now i cant find my sig to make it smaller grrrr
Mercade	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:44:00 - [16] Originally by: k starwind why dont you go out and buy all the large ammo BPO. they are not that expensive, then you can make your own BPC packages and sell them. I need to produce all the items within 30 days. The time to research for all hybrid large ammo, guns, projectile ammo, guns plus the cruisers and BS I was optionally considering doing also, is huge. And not that much to you. But I am not rich. This was potentially based on what they advertised the best solution IF I could get all the ammo/Guns so I didn't have to hunt them all down, or buy the BPO and research them. Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
The Clash	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:45:00 - [17] You ever considerd they might have been busy fighting or RL etc , i used their deals a few times on an alt and i was pretty much amazed at how i got served altho they didnt know me at all . No bs around just what they offerd and when around i got it asap . Even deliverd . Ofc due reasons unknown they might have a problem to do it ASAP but hey M Corp ha a very good rep , not just here but also 99% of the guys i know using them or who i recomend them . _________________ You can suck my battleship.
thoth foc	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:46:00 - [18] Originally by: Mercade It's up to the customer to decide if the deal is worth it. a sales man who doesnt know the value of his product is a fool.. tbh u got more than what u paid for.. and still cried.. --thoth [5], ex-Curse Alliance ex-DSMA
Mercade	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:48:00 - [19] Originally by: The Clash You ever considerd they might have been busy fighting or RL etc , i used their deals a few times on an alt and i was pretty much amazed at how i got served altho they didnt know me at all . No bs around just what they offerd and when around i got it asap . Even deliverd . Ofc due reasons unknown they might have a problem to do it ASAP but hey M Corp ha a very good rep , not just here but also 99% of the guys i know using them or who i recomend them . Exactly why I went straight to them for the rep I heard and had seen. So why wasn't I just told, you want AMMO BPC's we don't do that, we do BS? Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
The Clash	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Mercade Originally by: The Clash You ever considerd they might have been busy fighting or RL etc , i used their deals a few times on an alt and i was pretty much amazed at how i got served altho they didnt know me at all . No bs around just what they offerd and when around i got it asap . Even deliverd . Ofc due reasons unknown they might have a problem to do it ASAP but hey M Corp ha a very good rep , not just here but also 99% of the guys i know using them or who i recomend them . Exactly why I went straight to them for the rep I heard and had seen. So why wasn't I just told, you want AMMO BPC's we don't do that, we do BS? They also do ammo im sure , thenagainits been long ago for me as im inactive . But still i have problems to believe M Corp would mess up , ofc it always can happen a problem occurs why not live with that ? Posting a complaint on here usually makes it worse tbh , take it up with M Corp rep's , im sure they will serve you _________________ You can suck my battleship.
Mercade	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:53:00 - [21] Originally by: thoth foc Originally by: Mercade It's up to the customer to decide if the deal is worth it. a sales man who doesnt know the value of his product is a fool.. tbh u got more than what u paid for.. and still cried.. A good sales person knows the value of their product. A good sales person knows the value of a customer IN THEIR STORE. You don't throw away customers, and you don't treat them bad. I should have been worth an honest answer. I should not have been told I wasn't worth his time. That alone you don't do. If someone walks in my store and wants to return something that cost 5 dollars and they are a hassle, I don't kick them out and tell them they aren't worth my time, shut up I'm banning you from the store. Let me ask you all one question. Why shouldn't I share this and let people read it? We pride ourselves in the world we create, the politics and the economy. It's up to us to decide what kind of military is fair and what kind of business is right. CCP won't police it for us. All I want is an appology. I want Velios to say I am sorry for telling you to shut up. Kert didn't fit what you wanted with what we had and that's their or my responsibility and I hope you find whatever you're looking for elsewhere. I want to see this reputation I was told I should expect. Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
Stratosfear	Posted - 2006.01.22 04:53:00 - [22] You found your way to the forums, typed up several paragraphs and posted a chatlog over some low value BPCs in a computer game. You sir need a life, and nobody wants a custemer like that, keep your isk. Velios more than gave you his fair share of attention and this in no way reflects badly on M.Corp. Besides, posting convos is not permitted in forums. Go whine in your corp channel.
thoth foc	Posted - 2006.01.22 05:00:00 - [23] Originally by: Mercade A good sales person knows the value of a customer IN THEIR STORE. yip.. and whiney customers are never worth whatever they are paying.. being realistic and evaluating a customer is a very important role of a saleman.. u seemed to be evaluted very well.. tbh --thoth [5], ex-Curse Alliance ex-DSMA
Mercade	Posted - 2006.01.22 05:00:00 - [24] Originally by: The Clash Originally by: Mercade Originally by: The Clash You ever considerd they might have been busy fighting or RL etc , i used their deals a few times on an alt and i was pretty much amazed at how i got served altho they didnt know me at all . No bs around just what they offerd and when around i got it asap . Even deliverd . Ofc due reasons unknown they might have a problem to do it ASAP but hey M Corp ha a very good rep , not just here but also 99% of the guys i know using them or who i recomend them . Exactly why I went straight to them for the rep I heard and had seen. So why wasn't I just told, you want AMMO BPC's we don't do that, we do BS? They also do ammo im sure , thenagainits been long ago for me as im inactive . But still i have problems to believe M Corp would mess up , ofc it always can happen a problem occurs why not live with that ? Posting a complaint on here usually makes it worse tbh , take it up with M Corp rep's , im sure they will serve you I was banned from the channel before I even said anything in their "public channel" which I wasn't going to. Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
Mercade	Posted - 2006.01.22 05:02:00 - [25] Originally by: Stratosfear You found your way to the forums, typed up several paragraphs and posted a chatlog over some low value BPCs in a computer game. You sir need a life, and nobody wants a custemer like that, keep your isk. Velios more than gave you his fair share of attention and this in no way reflects badly on M.Corp. Besides, posting convos is not permitted in forums. Go whine in your corp channel. I have a life. Good friends. Several hobbies and a stable job as well as a small business on the side. I also have my word. You are entitled your opinion. I'm entitled to not accept "shut up" as a reply in a business conversation. I'm also entitled an expression of it. The choice was either biasly state my opinion, or offer the convo and let others decide. I even prefaced the post. It's up to you. Just offering the info. Just like on ebay someone with 400 positive comments isn't impervious to one person feeling wronged being able to say they felt they were and how. Do you disagree ? Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
Mercade	Posted - 2006.01.22 05:04:00 - [26] Originally by: thoth foc Originally by: Mercade A good sales person knows the value of a customer IN THEIR STORE. yip.. and whiney customers are never worth whatever they are paying.. being realistic and evaluating a customer is a very important role of a saleman.. u seemed to be evaluted very well.. tbh He took my money. So that would mean he evaluated me as a worthwhile customer. I personally take pride in knowing my customers are both sold and happy. Customer content is a big part of repeat business and free advertisement. Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
shadyfox99	Posted - 2006.01.22 05:05:00 - [27] Thoth, why do you post on the forums? You post nothing constructive and only flame or bash other people. Please stop it. On topic: it seems to me that it was a miscommunication, at a few points in the chat log i saw where both parties tried to mend the situation, but they just never came together on it. Originally by: HostageTaker Use your brain and use your main! OMFG I just rhymed!
Mercade	Posted - 2006.01.22 05:11:00 - [28] Originally by: shadyfox99 Thoth, why do you post on the forums? You post nothing constructive and only flame or bash other people. Please stop it. On topic: it seems to me that it was a miscommunication, at a few points in the chat log i saw where both parties tried to mend the situation, but they just never came together on it. I noticed that. I even qouted myself when he pointed out all I wanted for resolution was what I had originally came for and had been lead to believe I would receive. I have no idea why people can't just say. I have good history with M.Corp, this suprises me. I'm sure it was a misunderstanding and they will appologize for kicking you to the curb and telling you to shut up. Instead I get people who try to undermine the value of my statement by attacking my person. Guess what that doesn't work. Originally by: kieron ...possible causes for an extended downtime, I think playing WoW would be close to the bottom of the list, probably between shaving cats and having dental work done w/o anethesia.
thoth foc	Posted - 2006.01.22 05:13:00 - [29] Originally by: shadyfox99 Thoth, why do you post on the forums? You post nothing constructive and only flame or bash other people. Please stop it. umm yes sir... Originally by: Mercade He took my money. So that would mean he evaluated me as a worthwhile customer. and u got the deal u paid for.. --thoth [5], ex-Curse Alliance ex-DSMA
thoth foc	Posted - 2006.01.22 05:20:00 - [30] Edited by: thoth foc on 22/01/2006 05:19:45 Originally by: Mercade Originally by: thoth foc Originally by: Mercade He took my money. So that would mean he evaluated me as a worthwhile customer. and u got the deal u paid for.. How? I went to them and asked how I could get all the turrets and large ammo in the game. I fail to see where what you think is a good deal, and what I asked for have any relevance with my business. u bought racial packs x, y and z.. and u got them.. as specified.. --thoth [5], ex-Curse Alliance ex-DSMA

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