Just shoot it. No game change is needed because you're too lazy to spend an hour to secure your moon.

Just shoot it. No game change is needed because you're too lazy to spend an hour to secure your moon.

I have found 10 abandoned POS's in just 2 systems - some have been there for over a year (cause I checked the corps wardec history). It would be nice if a) we could unanchor them and make a profit after they have been abandoned for a period of time - b) if like a container that has seen no activity, they vanish after being in space after a pre-determined time - c) we can destroy them without concord killing us.
If a moon has a POS on it than no-one else can put a POS on it correct ??

been suggested numerous times.

the best idea is to make it a hacking mini game. if a tower goes offline and is down for a certain amount of time, we can hack it, change ownership, insert fuel and bring it up as our own. or unanchor and sell.

Shoot the tower, steal the mods, sell the moon.

Bam, now you're profiting from clearing moons.

Me, I say that if someone is too lazy and/or incompetent to keep their tower fueled or protected while it's offline, then they don't deserve to keep that tower.

That's nice. Why don't you go ahead and war dec them, attack their high sec tower, and see if they are too lazy to defend it?

If they don't defend it? Bash tower, take moon.

If they do? You either win, and take the moon anyway, or you lose, and the moon was never going to be yours to begin with.

How long do you think it takes to remove an undefended large tower in high sec ?
Assume a small corp. 20 people in it at most. Be sure to consider what they want a high sec POS for, and what that implies about their trained skills.

How do you plan to keep the attacking pilots paying enough attention during the attack that they can respond to the defenders showing up ?

How much do high sec merc groups charge for removing an offline large tower ?

If they can't be bothered to do it themselves, they can pay someone to do it for them, find an empty moon, or buy a moon from someone.

"CCP should magic our enemies towers away because we might risk our ships by not being at the keyboard while shooting our enemies towers ourselves."

Ask them.

How long do you think it takes to remove an undefended large tower in high sec ?
Assume a small corp. 20 people in it at most. Be sure to consider what they want a high sec POS for, and what that implies about their trained skills.

How do you plan to keep the attacking pilots paying enough attention during the attack that they can respond to the defenders showing up ?

How much do high sec merc groups charge for removing an offline large tower ?

Why should someone who is unwilling, or unable, to fuel a POS be able to claim a moon and stop someone who is willing and able to fuel a POS from setting up their own ?

Or, in the extreme case: Why should someone who is not even subscribed to Eve be able to claim moons for himself ?

If you don't answer my question, I'll just assume you realize that giving an honest answer would be devastating for your argument.

Are you saying you think that people should be able to earn ISK with no risk, and no input on their part ?

Because that's what offline high sec towers are. You just plant the tower, then wait for someone to want the moon enough to pay for it. Worst case, you just recover the tower and sell it to get your ISK back. Should someone war dec you, and actually start attacking the POS you can wait till boredom has defeated them, then swing by in a single ship and start popping attackers.

Are there any high sec merc groups willing to take out a high sec POS ?

Does it make a difference if you can convince the mercs that everyone in the corp that owns the POS isn't subscribed ?

... Or, in the extreme case: Why should someone who is not even subscribed to Eve be able to claim moons for himself?

Why should someone who is unwilling or unable to shoot down a structure that can do nothing to fight back be able to take real estate from someone who claimed it first?

Exactly as long as it takes anywhere else.

been suggested numerous times.

the best idea is to make it a hacking mini game. if a tower goes offline and is down for a certain amount of time, we can hack it, change ownership, insert fuel and bring it up as our own. or unanchor and sell.

Just shoot it. No game change is needed because you're too lazy to spend an hour to secure your moon.

Assuming 20 people in BS's doing 1k dps, it would take them 40+ minutes to take down the POS.

It'd be much more interesting if abandoned POS's were salvageable somehow rather than being forced to bash them (something that is the opposite of interesting)

This. IMHO after a tower has had no fuel for a week it should lose the ability to go into reinforce and lose its bubble and everything.

Ideally, hack tower, remove everything, salvage tower for salvage, profit.

Shoot tower, remove everything hanging from it, profit.

Shoot tower, remove everything hanging from it, profit.

Why are some people so resistant to alternatives to structure bashing? It's strange...

been suggested numerous times.

the best idea is to make it a hacking mini game. if a tower goes offline and is down for a certain amount of time, we can hack it, change ownership, insert fuel and bring it up as our own. or unanchor and sell.

Why are some people so resistant to alternatives to structure bashing? It's strange...

Your other questions are irrelevant; I don't care how many of them there are, or what they want it for; their financial issues are not mine. If they can't make a return on bashing someone else's POS, then obviously they shouldn't be bashing it. Their skill training, or lack thereof, is also not my issue.

3.) If there is stront in the stront bay (i.e. the tower was online and went offline), then successfully hacking the tower causes it to go through an RF period based on the amount of stront in the bay. Hence, a 1.5 day wait to claim the tower against someone who's prepared (in any sec status).

40+ MINUTES?!?! BUT MY ISK/HOUR!!!! THE HUMANITY!!!!!

Why are some people so resistant to alternatives to structure bashing? It's strange...

If you want something that someone else has, why aren't you willing to fight for it?

I have found 10 abandoned POS's in just 2 systems - some have been there for over a year (cause I checked the corps wardec history)

Shooting a POS that has been abandoned is not fighting.

Sure it is. If they decide to let the POS die and not to take the fight, that's their business.

Declare war and fight for the real estate you want to claim, just like everywhere else in EVE.

Oh, and who says it's been abandoned just because it's not being fueled?

Your logic is totally backwards. How about they actually fuel up their damn POS or lose it without a fight? I mean they have claimed that moon, so it should be their responsibility to maintain it. If they don't they should lose it. The game shouldn't force others to wardec them or send them any notice when the POS they can't be bothered with maintaining is hacked (which should totally be doable with any offline POS). That's just rewarding laziness and/or incompetency in my opinion.

Outside of HS, you can easily kill an offline POS before anyone is likely to show up to defend it.

If you'd like to avail yourselves of the protections of HS, you have to accept that other people will avail themselves of those same protections. That means you need to declare war or accept CONCORD's justice for any aggression.

If you can't be bothered to take what you want, why should you get it?

Outside of HS, you can easily kill an offline POS before anyone is likely to show up to defend it.

If you'd like to avail yourselves of the protections of HS, you have to accept that other people will avail themselves of those same protections. That means you need to declare war or accept CONCORD's justice for any aggression.

If you can't be bothered to take what you want, why should you get it?

POSs are to be defended by fleets, not CONCORD.

If a corp is too lazy to fuel their POS so that it reinforces they deserve to lose that POS without warning.

Having a mechanic whereby anchored POSs naturally decay or can be removed (this is EVE, stealing is not only allowed, but encouraged) for profit is a logical step.

So declare war, and it won't be. If you dislike CONCORD as a whole, it's a simple enough mechanic to escape.



If you're unwilling to attack someone's property, why should you expect to be able to take their land?



You're free to steal any hanging modules once you tear down the tower.

If players won't defend their tower (and leave it to CONCORD, or aren't willing to fuel it) they should lose it. Thats just a fact.

If everyone left the ISS and never returned, it would fall into the Earth in a multi-billion dollar crater. Same logic applies to EVE, if you won't maintain your stuff, you lose your stuff.

Your entire argument hinges on "I'm not willing to defend something, but you won't fight me for it." If you won't fight for it (fuel it so it RFs) why can't I steal it?

Theft is very EVE, there's no denying that.

So where's your post calling for the ability to steal from

I'm not sure you're familiar with the meaning of that word. The word "should" is very rarely found in an actual statement of fact.

I'm still looking for a reason why you should be able to claim someone else's real estate without risk of a fight.

.
I'm still looking for a reason why you should be able to claim someone else's real estate without risk of a fight.

And I'm still waiting for you to explain why being lazy and/or incompetent should be rewarded by arbitrary game mechanics.

Fine, let me rephrase: If someone can't be bothered to defend their tower by fueling it and insuring a stront timer, they will lose it.

Reason to claim someone's stuff without a fight: there doesn't need to be one. If someone leaves a couch by the side of the road its a free for all, first to the couch can keep it. The owner of the dead tower no longer wants it (as was evidenced by their abandoning it) so why should I fight for something nobody else wants?

I think the better question is why should players be forced to shoot a structure that nobody cares about? Its like grinding regions of Sov after the war is over, its completely unnecessary.

You're confused about who needs to answer that question. Why should people too lazy and/or incompetent to destroy a "undefended" tower be rewarded with the arbitrary and unique ability to commit aggressive action in HS without CONCORD oversight or intervention?

This question has already been answered. If a group chooses to not refuel their POS they relinquish their claim to it in my eyes.

Beyond that, we don't all have capital fleets to vaporize POS's in a blink, especially in wormholes. Being able to salvage dead sticks rather than being forced to bash them for hours to remove them is so obviously superior gameplay-wise I don't even know what to say to your inability to see it.

How much ISK per hour would that be ?