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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
5991
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 09:08:00 -
[91] - Quote
Technically the way you represent your constituents is by actually sticking to the principles you were elected on.
Of course since nobody asked "would you support another T20" this kind of got overlooked. -áFavoritism is good - CCP 2013 |

Kate stark
332
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 09:18:00 -
[92] - Quote
it's not even about battleships, or blueprints, or 1 unit of trit.
the issue here is that if we don't question this decision our inaction will simply send the message that we're fine with CCP handing one they want, anything they want, without a word about it. that is why it's being compared to the t20 stuff, because that kind of thing is both stupid and dangerous.
does any one begrudge the people at blink getting a thank you for their efforts? maybe one or two, but that's not important.
are there people that are more deserving and should be higher up the list of people to be rewarded? almost certainly.
would we have been remotely upset if CCP said "we're issuing a bunch of scorpions to people we think have done something noteworthy relating to eve starting with the people at blink and soon after others who have also made notable contributions"? we'd probably a bit uneasy about essentially dumping isk in people's accounts but we'd certainly not disagree with the spirit of the gesture.
somer isn't relevant, scorpions aren't relevant. what is relevant is the god awful precedent this sets with regards to devs handing things to players out of thin air.
for what it's worth personally i have no issue with rewarding people who go above and beyond, however i don't think ingame items that affect the sandbox are the way to do it. the free gametime, and tickets to fanfest or whatever are how we should show our appreciation to those people. not by saying "here, have a fist full of isk courtesy of your favourite dev".
now i've just woken up so that could all be complete bollocks or i could have articulated my point well and i have no idea which so i'm going to just hit post and edit the stupidity out of it later. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or i's account, if you're reading this. |

Bronco Platz
Intercosmic Fruit Company
80
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 09:22:00 -
[93] - Quote
Mabelaba wrote:The CSM is nothing but a CCP marketing tool. Think that's obvious by now.
Fun fact: Ripard said the same in his own words:
Quote:Mara, that analogy makes no sense whatsoever. You seem to think that the CSM can make CCP do something or not do something. I assure you this is not the case. We can influence here and there, sometimes, when CCP is in the mood to be influenced. And sometimes, we're not even told something is happening when it happens, which includes BOTH cases involving SOMER.
Malcanis wrote:Most of them are NDA'd, alas.
This three letters are the favourit letters of CSM, right? NDA here, NDA there, "I can-¦t tell you because of the NDA. Haha!".
I wonder what the CSM is really for. Some guys get free trips to Iceland? (Okay, this is not really a prize;)) Getting free accounts? Get an "eyes only" insindeview to the future developement of Eve?
At the current state, the CSM is really nothing more than a PR-Gag of CCP. |

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
339
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 09:22:00 -
[94] - Quote
Some right morons here.
"A CSM is supposed to represent his voters opinions..."
Wrong.
You vote for a CSM based on their opinions and ideas at time of election - after they become a CSM they are entitled to their own opinions and are no longer accountable to those who elected them. But rather they are normally cozying up to CCP to put in a job application, or get as much as possible from their free holidays to Iceland.
The CSM have no authority, are not accountable and other than advise CCP and legitimise CCP actions in the eyes of many players - the CSM are redundant and detrimental to actual player feedback by means of applying an additional layer of bureaucracy for any good player ideas to now reach CCP.
I know I'm in a minority with my view on it, but I say scrap the CSM - The game is better off without the pretense that they do anything useful any motivated player couldn't do. CCP just need to get their act together and listen to a wider base of players - like how often does the F&I actually get any dev comments/input anymore. Communication is still poor from CCP.
Flame on. o/ |

Kialopreyst
Hole Exploitation Inc. Goonswarm Federation
29
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 09:28:00 -
[95] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Malcanis:
Suppose CCP gave every director of Goonswarm Federation about 10 PLEX each for their contributions to the sandbox. This comes out to, very roughly, 300 billion ISK worth of PLEX being given directly to the command staff of the largest alliance in the game. Since PLEX doesn't refine to anything, has no intrinsic value aside from what players assign to it, and since our leadership is already ridiculously wealthy, you should have no problem with this, right? After all CCP has a right to reward its content creators.
Can we include FC's in this aswell? I'd love to receive theoretical PLEX for being awesome. |

wowyouareacow
Ordo Drakonis Nulli Secunda
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 09:34:00 -
[96] - Quote
The bottom line about the Ishukone scorpions is that they can be resold in game for a lot of money. SOMER Blink also got a ton of ISK from the recent prizes. In doing so, CCP swing the in game economy in SOMER's favour. And I'm not sure why, seeing as SOMER are already ridiculously rich. |

Kuni Oichi
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
93
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 09:42:00 -
[97] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:Malcanis wrote:What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?
It boils down to: why does CCP think it's ok to hand out billions of isk to a select few and does so in secrecy. We're not talking about 2 years up ahead when almost everybody has that gifted ship making it by then far less worth then it was at the moment of hand out. We're talking about the here and now, not if when then. As I understand it, the receipients themselves asked for the gift not to be publicised. Which is I think their right.
So you're happy that they and CCP can collude to defraud anyone who bought the ships off them then? Purchasers would have believed they were getting one of eighty odd ships, not one of over a hundred. It's a small difference but it evidently adds up to several billion given how the price on them has dropped since the news got out.
And given you think it's okay for CCP to give secret gifts worth hundreds of billions of isk to the same corporation they've enriched to the tune of X $$$ and again hundreds of billions of isk, where exactly does that leave the CSM then given you think it's okay and Ripard was desperately shilling for ccp?
|

Flamespar
Woof Club
809
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 09:42:00 -
[98] - Quote
Christ EVE players are a bunch of whiny brats at times.
CCP has a long history of rewarding players for improving the game. From the PLEX individual players can get from the buddy system to these golden scorpions.
These people work to improve your game. And you want them to do it for free.
Idiots.
Can I haz my golden scorpion now CCP? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |

Kate stark
334
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 09:44:00 -
[99] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Christ EVE players are a bunch of whiny brats at times.
CCP has a long history of rewarding players for improving the game. From the PLEX individual players can get from the buddy system to these golden scorpions.
These people work to improve your game. And you want them to do it for free.
Idiots.
Can I haz my golden scorpion now CCP?
calls people idiots.
completely misses the point.
is that irony? Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or i's account, if you're reading this. |

Frying Doom
2559
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 09:51:00 -
[100] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Why is it for the last few years every time CCP screws up, all you ever see is the CSM saying they disapprove of CCPs actions followed by the CSM actively defending CCP? Because of your gigantic confirmation bias, which only allows you to see the evidence that suits your preconceptions. Like for instance they way you've dishonestly ignored the CSM's communication about CCP's proposal to give Somer actual unique ships. Would this be a communication where you disapprove of CCPs actions before you started to actively defend them?
Like I said
disapprove -> actively defend. So you can say "But we didn't just act like a PR arm of CCP" but it is all the CSM seems to do for the last few years. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11997
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 09:51:00 -
[101] - Quote
Kuni Oichi wrote:Malcanis wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:Malcanis wrote:What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?
It boils down to: why does CCP think it's ok to hand out billions of isk to a select few and does so in secrecy. We're not talking about 2 years up ahead when almost everybody has that gifted ship making it by then far less worth then it was at the moment of hand out. We're talking about the here and now, not if when then. As I understand it, the receipients themselves asked for the gift not to be publicised. Which is I think their right. So you're happy that they and CCP can collude to defraud anyone who bought the ships off them then? Purchasers would have believed they were getting one of eighty odd ships, not one of over a hundred. It's a small difference but it evidently adds up to several billion given how the price on them has dropped since the news got out. And given you think it's okay for CCP to give secret gifts worth hundreds of billions of isk to the same corporation they've enriched to the tune of X $$$ and again hundreds of billions of isk, where exactly does that leave the CSM then given you think it's okay and Ripard was desperately shilling for ccp?
Where did CCP say that no more Ishscorps would be given out?
1 Kings 12:11
|

Frying Doom
2559
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 09:58:00 -
[102] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Kuni Oichi wrote:Malcanis wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:Malcanis wrote:What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?
It boils down to: why does CCP think it's ok to hand out billions of isk to a select few and does so in secrecy. We're not talking about 2 years up ahead when almost everybody has that gifted ship making it by then far less worth then it was at the moment of hand out. We're talking about the here and now, not if when then. As I understand it, the receipients themselves asked for the gift not to be publicised. Which is I think their right. So you're happy that they and CCP can collude to defraud anyone who bought the ships off them then? Purchasers would have believed they were getting one of eighty odd ships, not one of over a hundred. It's a small difference but it evidently adds up to several billion given how the price on them has dropped since the news got out. And given you think it's okay for CCP to give secret gifts worth hundreds of billions of isk to the same corporation they've enriched to the tune of X $$$ and again hundreds of billions of isk, where exactly does that leave the CSM then given you think it's okay and Ripard was desperately shilling for ccp? Where did CCP say that no more Ishscorps would be given out? Just out of curiosity, do you secretly get given hundreds of billions of isk in ships for being a CCP PR rep? Oh sorry that would be NDA, and I am sure you would find acceptable for all that the CSM does for the players and of course you are all fairly rich so the amount would not matter. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1252
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 10:10:00 -
[103] - Quote
So, in the end this is all about jelly people about less-than-rare pixels and virtual currency in an MMO ??
Jesus... *removed inappropriate ASCII art signature* - CCP Eterne |

Kuni Oichi
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
94
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 10:13:00 -
[104] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: Where did CCP say that no more Ishscorps would be given out?
I know the eve-o forums is rife with rhetorical fallacies, but if your best answer to the question is to ask your own question as a deflection and one which doesn't answer the point given then it's pretty clear you're not very good at this.
So is it the trips to Iceland, the insider information or that feeling of being important on the internet that you're protecting?
The CSM was founded because of CCP developer bias. When CCP got it terribly wrong with $60 monocles and walking in stations instead of flying in space the CSM didn't spend their time making disingenuous mealy-mouthed comments in support of CCP, instead they held their feet to the fire, and carried on doing so after the emergency summit.
So what do we have now? CSM members who defend CCP no matter what, whether changing the terms of service, giving trillions to Somer to auction off or outright personal freebies to them for doing their very well paid jobs.
Evidently you care more about your relationship with CCP and wanting to defend them than you do about the bias and favouritism CCP is showing. |

Kate stark
335
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 10:18:00 -
[105] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:So, in the end this is all about jelly people about less-than-rare pixels and virtual currency in an MMO ??
no, not even close. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or i's account, if you're reading this. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6000
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 10:21:00 -
[106] - Quote
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:So, in the end this is all about jelly people about less-than-rare pixels and virtual currency in an MMO ??
Jesus...
EDIT: This global reaction about this "thing" for a couple days now, shows the part of or how childish and idiot this community can be in some regards. Shameless comparisons and so much jealousy just stinks. You sound exactly like the type that would say, in response to the revelation that the government reads your emails and listens to your phone calls, that everyone should be fine with it as long as they're not doing anything wrong. -áFavoritism is good - CCP 2013 |

Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1559
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:17:00 -
[107] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Mabelaba wrote:Malcanis wrote: And for all those people jumping on Jester for pointing this out, remember he's also the one that got us the warp speed changes that are going to make a massive difference to the way the game is actually played and will continue to do so until long after this teacup-based storm has been utterly forgotten (ie: Next month)
Yeah like we have forgotten the T20 - T2 BPO scandal ... That actually was a scandal. It was scandalous. This is merely people making hay out of a legit, generous but somewhat clumsily executed gesture.
So, what is CCP gifting you and the rest of the CSM with for this fine....fine example of community service? Don't ban me, bro! |

Signal11th
DARKNESS.
1123
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:23:00 -
[108] - Quote
Anomaly One wrote:The Mittani for CSM!
Err no, not again thank you. It worked out so well last time. Powered by-áreaTh-áFilter V1.23 "All posts by this pilot are personal held views and not representitive of-áany-ácorp or alliance I am currently a member of. Like I'd give a-ásh*t anyway. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |

Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
2837
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:23:00 -
[109] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Malcanis wrote:Mabelaba wrote:Malcanis wrote: And for all those people jumping on Jester for pointing this out, remember he's also the one that got us the warp speed changes that are going to make a massive difference to the way the game is actually played and will continue to do so until long after this teacup-based storm has been utterly forgotten (ie: Next month)
Yeah like we have forgotten the T20 - T2 BPO scandal ... That actually was a scandal. It was scandalous. This is merely people making hay out of a legit, generous but somewhat clumsily executed gesture. So, what is CCP gifting you and the rest of the CSM with for this fine....fine example of community service?
Free trips to Iceland? Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6012
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:24:00 -
[110] - Quote
Signal11th wrote:Anomaly One wrote:The Mittani for CSM! Err no, not again thank you. It worked out so well last time. We got Crucible. I happen to think it did work out rather well. -áFavoritism is good - CCP 2013 |

Kaivar Lancer
Metropolis Acquisition Services
308
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:26:00 -
[111] - Quote
Hmmm, I wonder how many Ishukone Watch Scorpions he's got hiding in his hangar? Projection, anyone? |

Signal11th
DARKNESS.
1123
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:26:00 -
[112] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Signal11th wrote:Anomaly One wrote:The Mittani for CSM! Err no, not again thank you. It worked out so well last time. We got Crucible. I happen to think it did work out rather well.
The guy is to polar for too many people for him to be completely effective. There will always be the whiff of collusion/bias/alcohol around him.
Not saying he/team didn't make any good decisions etc but he is just too polarising. Powered by-áreaTh-áFilter V1.23 "All posts by this pilot are personal held views and not representitive of-áany-ácorp or alliance I am currently a member of. Like I'd give a-ásh*t anyway. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |

Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
2837
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:41:00 -
[113] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Signal11th wrote:Anomaly One wrote:The Mittani for CSM! Err no, not again thank you. It worked out so well last time. We got Crucible. I happen to think it did work out rather well.
Yes, and we got a insight into Mittens mental health as well at fanfest. Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on. |

Kate stark
339
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:42:00 -
[114] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Signal11th wrote:Anomaly One wrote:The Mittani for CSM! Err no, not again thank you. It worked out so well last time. We got Crucible. I happen to think it did work out rather well. Yes, and we got a insight into Mittens mental health as well at fanfest.
"drunk guy acts like mong" seems fairly normal to me. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or i's account, if you're reading this. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6013
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:43:00 -
[115] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Signal11th wrote:Anomaly One wrote:The Mittani for CSM! Err no, not again thank you. It worked out so well last time. We got Crucible. I happen to think it did work out rather well. Yes, and we got a insight into Mittens mental health as well at fanfest. I know, it's so unusual for drunk people to say stupid things. -áFavoritism is good - CCP 2013 |

corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
124
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:43:00 -
[116] - Quote
Le Petite More wrote:He is wrong and knowing CCP talks to players like him explains how they made such a big mistake.
Most posters don't want stuff, that is sarcasm. A form of communication everyone trying to protect Somer seems to be incapable of understanding. Here is why this is wrong:
A: Gifts given to a for profit site with competitors is CCP showing blatant favoritism
B: This is on top of them vouching for the trustworthiness of an organization in EVE which is a huge boost to their profits, undeserved, and against CCP's own EULA.
C: CCP Navigator use to work for blink and has now twice favored blink with rare bonus items over every other entity in the game with no transparency which makes people suspicious.
D: His only response to this criticism was to promote their free blinks on the forums which aren't actually free.
E: CCP Falcon said CCP would not support any event that was controlled by players if everyone in EVE could not participate. Blink bans players for arbitrary reasons and yet CCP gave them items to raffle off. They couldn't even keep this story straight for a month.
F: The very players elected to stop CCP from playing favorites and spawning ingame items for people is now defending them. If there was any good reason to provide Somer with all these free items CCP would have released their guide to who gets free stuff. There isn't because blink only got the stuff due to favoritism.
G: They have now twice been given billions, maybe trillions of isk in a row for "community service." Has anybody else gotten anything in the interim? No because CCP doesn't care about community service.
He and the rest of the CSM are starting to look like mushrooms; kept in the dark and fed bull****. Though thank you to the ones who stood up against this on twitter.
is C really true as if that the case, then theres a a HUGE confict of interests.
as for the "ooh they have no value or they already have loads of isk" What if raivi gave PL 30 of these scorps, which have no value but could be traded to get what 6 to 8 titans....i'm sure that would be affacting the sand box |

Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
2837
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:48:00 -
[117] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Alpheias wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Signal11th wrote:Anomaly One wrote:The Mittani for CSM! Err no, not again thank you. It worked out so well last time. We got Crucible. I happen to think it did work out rather well. Yes, and we got a insight into Mittens mental health as well at fanfest. I know, it's so unusual for drunk people to say stupid things.
Beside the point, if you know you can't handle alcohol, then you really shouldn't been drinking. Allow me to be frank. You will not like me. You will not like me now, and you will not like men++ a good deal less as we go on. |

Kate stark
339
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:50:00 -
[118] - Quote
Alpheias wrote: Beside the point, if you know you can't handle alcohol, then you really shouldn't been drinking.
it's not beside the point.
your entire statement was basically "look at mittens, he's not normal because of what happened at fanfest" when in fact, what happened at fanfest wasn't abnormal at all. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or i's account, if you're reading this. |

Khemax
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
93
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:51:00 -
[119] - Quote
The CSM members that have said this is an ok thing to do obviously need to actually stop kissing CCP arse, and listen to the people who voted you into the honoured position you are in at the moment.
The sheer fact that they gave out rare high value items to a group that has found a good way to line their own pockets is outrageous.
Would it still be ok if they gave James a couple of limited edition Titans for his work spamming the forums with self promoting crap? How about giving each member of TEST a super carrier for all the fighting/entertainment they have given folks!
This is like someone giving Bill gates a 50 Billion dollar present for inventing windows.
Stop defending what is blatantly a stupid thing do to and start representing the view of the massive amount of people YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT
I get the feeling that the CSM members arguing against the vast majorities view point, and the distinct lack of replies from all the others, that similar "presents" have been forthcoming in their direction for their fine work representing us....../sarcasm off I can see no other reason why they would take such an abnormal stance openly against the vast majority. |

Khemax
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
93
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 11:55:00 -
[120] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:Alpheias wrote: Beside the point, if you know you can't handle alcohol, then you really shouldn't been drinking.
it's not beside the point. your entire statement was basically "look at mittens, he's not normal because of what happened at fanfest" when in fact, what happened at fanfest wasn't abnormal at all.
Sorry do you actually believe that publicly encouraging a large group of people to deliberately go after someone so they will kill themselves is normal....wow are you one seriously warped weirdo.....go see a psychiatrist now before you make onto the 10 most wanted list.
I am sorry but doing crap like that is so not normal. Next you will be saying its ok to push people off tall buildings because your bored. |
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