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arutha
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:19:00 -
[1]
anyone else feel that implant loss in pvp holds back the game . i mean i bet there are many highly skilled pilots who basicly only ever npc in empire . instead of using there 40 million skill point character in a true test against other players ? .
now i know people say there should be consquences . but really how many pilots are out there that you will never meet in pvp . people who are quite rightly protecting there investment in there rather expensive implants .
i know player skill is a huge factor in a player combat scenerio . but good character skill helps alot too . and its seems too me that we never see the very best characters out on the field due to a loss system . which ensures we never see them outside empire .
industrial characters reach there full potential quickly and efficientley simply by there nature . very rarely does a player with rank 5 refineing etc get into real trouble unless stupid . where as the player who loves too fight gets held back . id love love too see 42 million skill point characters out there in battle . but i dought it will happen often with the current clone rules .jump clones helped abit . but as soon as u jump your skill training is decreased . soo again your character gets held back .
just my thoughts on the matter . pvp ers arent allowe too reach there full potential the way a industrial one does in there choosen career path . ic it as unfair and holding back an important part off the game .
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Crook
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:22:00 -
[2]
Life is choices......
Rules are rules......
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Sendraks
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:25:00 -
[3]
I believe the phrase is "don't fly what you can't afford to lose."
If people don't want to go into low sec and risk losing their implants due to combat with other players, then so be it. I really don't think the solution to this is make impants cheaper or more affordable or in any way easier to replace.
Maybe those 42million SP characters are not going out to fight other players because they don't want to?
Maybe they don't want to fight because they don't want to lose ISK due to ship loss, item loss, clone replacements and reinsurance costs.
Maybe they are not going out to fight because they just don't want to lose?
Maybe they don't care?
I think your point about industrials reaching their full potential over PvPers is a flawed argument. Ok, maybe PvPers won't have the skill training times an in industrialist in empire space has, but no one ever won a battle by being able to train skills faster during a fight.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:25:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 25/01/2006 15:26:05
Nah, still have to be podded for the first time in combat, and I do sue this char in combat every so often.
My otehr fighting char was podded once, sitting afk at a safe in venal.
Of course, neither uses much in teh way of implants, implants suck if you like clonejumping as an alternative to travelling 
So, I don't have 40m skillpoints, or feven more then 30m. As if I care ? After 25m it's all fluff anyway unless you get into capital ships.
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Righteous Fury
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:26:00 -
[5]
Not really. I have a full set of implants, I still pvp on a daily basis.
People who pvp regularly fall into two groups: those who can afford to replace sets of implants, or those who don't use implants at all.
Project rebirth might help with this a bit, but I don't really see the problem of 'holding back' people who don't want to fight.
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Mudkest
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:26:00 -
[6]
not everyone wants to pvp, sure, some of them might not want to becuse of risk loosing implants, but that does not apply to everyone.
-Would you attack a lion with a brooch-pin?
Why would a lion have a brooch-pin? |
Waldo Barnstormer
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:29:00 -
[7]
i have a full set of +1 implants (whoop-dee-doo huh?) and even with those im far more cautious than i was without em. quite frankly when i lose them (hoping saying that wont make fellow players want to 'help' me along) i'll never fit another implant, because it holds back the game for me
loose = "not rigidly fastened or securely attached" | lose = "fail to win" |
Avon
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:30:00 -
[8]
Nah, never hold me back.
In fact recently BL gave a call to arms to be in a certain station within 20minutes.
I was 37 jumps away.
I bought a shuttle, undocked, and clone jumped.
110mil in implants, poof.
No second thoughts.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Jamius
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:34:00 -
[9]
Im my experience any player truly interested in PvP (especially in 0.0) does not use implants. Apart from pod jumping being extremely usefull in 0.0 (I used to do it all the time) PvP just isn't viable if you want to use implants all the time. You can do it but you better be rich and ready to replace those implants often.
So if any players are sitting on a 40mill SP character set for PvP but scared to use em because of a full set of +5 implants then they are not PvP players and are never likely to be.
It's not really a valid question as such a player is just not a PvPer.
You could use implants to create a great PvP character as quickly as possible but to become a PvP character you would need to forget about those implants to become the PvP character.
I think it's called being liberated from your implants - happened to me a long time ago.
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Max Teranous
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:37:00 -
[10]
The jump clone feature is handy to have now. I have a jump clone body with a full set of +3 implants in, for if/when I know I won't be online for a couple of days. The rest of the time I go without implants, as I'd rather spend isk on other things than replacing implants should I be podded, and clone jumping the old fashioned way is damn handy at times.
Max 
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Alex Kynes
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:39:00 -
[11]
Well. If you are an industrialist and implants hold you back from a fight you do not realize the full potential of your profession. If I was tossed out into 0.0 and told to solo an alliance, and I could choose to take along an industrialist or a fight I'd choose an industrialist, hands down!
To put it short: "Build me a ship and I'll fight your battles!"
If you are a wannabe fighter and implants are holding you back, well, perhaps it is time to consider a different profession.
/AK
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:41:00 -
[12]
I swear, it's like I'm stuck in some kind of stupid Star Trek causality loop, where the same threads keep appearing, over and over again.
Maybe this time around I'll have the helm turn left instead of right. Unless... I did that last time and that led us to the loop.
Maybe I'll have LaForge use his tachyon browser to post a thread in the past, warning us of the danger.
Warp Drive Active | Nature Vraie |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:42:00 -
[13]
If somebody isn't willing to PvP because they might lose their implants, then they'd probably still find a reason to avoid combat even if their implants weren't at risk.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:46:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: Winterblink
I swear, it's like I'm stuck in some kind of stupid Star Trek causality loop, where the same threads keep appearing, over and over again.
Maybe this time around I'll have the helm turn left instead of right. Unless... I did that last time and that led us to the loop.
Maybe I'll have LaForge use his tachyon browser to post a thread in the past, warning us of the danger.
Is it me or is that corpname under your name rather newish ?
I might have to get laforge to reverse that with that thinghy of his you mentioned.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sendraks
I believe the phrase is "don't fly what you can't afford to lose."
And for many players, this is "anything". So they never venture into dangerous space.
We need a new paradime.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Chai N'Dorr
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Winterblink
I swear, it's like I'm stuck in some kind of stupid Star Trek causality loop, where the same threads keep appearing, over and over again.
Maybe this time around I'll have the helm turn left instead of right. Unless... I did that last time and that led us to the loop.
Maybe I'll have LaForge use his tachyon browser to post a thread in the past, warning us of the danger.
Nah, just shows your Forum/Eve age, mate
_
Short Story: Planetside |
Andy Bartfeldt
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:56:00 -
[17]
I think implants should be an investment and a luxury and if you die in combat you should lose them, but I'd like to see pod-killing harder to do. What's the point of having an escape pod if you only have a 5% chance of escaping?
Factor in the session change lag and you might aswell pod-kill yourself before hand, because the only ways you won't get pod-killed in pvp is if you're only fighting battleship opponents, your opponent is laggy/clumsy, happens to ransom you instead of just collecting a corpse, or you're fighting with fleets and the enemy is too busy doing other things.
I think if there was a better chance of keeping your implants, people would be a little less afraid to fight with them. Perhaps it's time for ccp to implement those new pods that have more hp/wcs abilities. Maybe lower the sig radius(or whatever determines the locking time) on pods so they can't be nearly insta-locked by smaller ships.
Just my thoughts on the subject, though.
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Skogen Gump
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Posted - 2006.01.25 16:11:00 -
[18]
Seems pretty straight forward to me really - Implants are cool when you're learning, but once you get to a manageable level of SPs all they do is hold you back.
I'm at a point now where I don't need anymore skills to survive and be effective, so saving 2 days on a level 5 skill isn't a primary objective for me now.
However, it's your game - play it how you like.
Tell you what though, being able to undock, explode and wakeup in a system that would have taken you two hours of travelling otherwise is a beautiful thing 
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2006.01.25 16:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Is it me or is that corpname under your name rather newish ?
I might have to get laforge to reverse that with that thinghy of his you mentioned.
Oh? Why? :)
Warp Drive Active | Nature Vraie |
Yulag
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Posted - 2006.01.25 16:15:00 -
[20]
My main (yes, unfortunately it would be stupid to reveal my main) has a full set of Slave implants, Akemon's and the CX2 in his head. It's really great, especially on the dread he flies, but I stopped flying smaller ships like interceptors and assault frigates.
Interceptors and AF's attract other frigs and since these, together with smartbombs, form the biggest threat to pods, I stopped flying those.
But my implants not only affect the type of ship I choose. Even in my dread I'm starting to wonder if it's worth it. Dreads are only engaged with a decent fleet and EVE, in it's current state, is anything but lag-free in fleet combat. The introduction of Interdictors only increase the risks, not just to my dread but any ship I fly.
1 interdictor present while I pop results in a 3 billion loss.
CCP should really come up with something, or else I won't dare to undock at all anymore :P
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Psychic Sue
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Posted - 2006.01.25 16:19:00 -
[21]
jump clones - leave your polished hugged and whatever implants behind.
Seriously, you have all the abilities to PvP without the fear of a loss if you really care about those pathetic implants, and still you whine.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.01.25 16:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Is it me or is that corpname under your name rather newish ?
I might have to get laforge to reverse that with that thinghy of his you mentioned.
Oh? Why? :)
Oh, never mind 
You are a potential enemy now (well, technically not since Seleene is still Blacklights alt of course), so I can't reveal these sekrits no more.
/me beams himself up looking for coffee
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Li'ann
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Posted - 2006.01.25 16:21:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Li''ann on 25/01/2006 16:21:23
wrong thread
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Yulag
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Posted - 2006.01.25 16:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Psychic Sue
jump clones - leave your polished hugged and whatever implants behind.
Seriously, you have all the abilities to PvP without the fear of a loss if you really care about those pathetic implants, and still you whine.
Whine? Pathetic implants? 
I wouldn't call +60% armor bonus and +5%-10% damage useless.
Do jumpclones transfer the bonus of my main body to the jumpclone?
I doubt it's CCP's intention to create great PVP implants but make it pointless/too risky to use them. With the introduction of interdictors the risks vs rewards of implants is not balanced anymore.
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Drunk Driver
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Posted - 2006.01.25 16:34:00 -
[25]
Implants taste like chicken.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2006.01.25 16:40:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 25/01/2006 16:41:28
Originally by: Yulag
Originally by: Psychic Sue
jump clones - leave your polished hugged and whatever implants behind.
Seriously, you have all the abilities to PvP without the fear of a loss if you really care about those pathetic implants, and still you whine.
Whine? Pathetic implants?
I wouldn't call +60% armor bonus and +5%-10% damage useless.
Do jumpclones transfer the bonus of my main body to the jumpclone?
I doubt it's CCP's intention to create great PVP implants but make it pointless/too risky to use them. With the introduction of interdictors the risks vs rewards of implants is not balanced anymore.
The good side of pvp implants is that they can make your character much more effective in combat.
The bad side is that they are an isk investment that can be lost.
This is one of the best examples of risk vs reward and doesn't need changed. Loss in pvp is reduced enough as it is right now, interdictors do not change things that much as they are very expensive and fragile ships to risk in combat.
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Psychic Sue
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Posted - 2006.01.25 16:43:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Yulag
Originally by: Psychic Sue
jump clones - leave your polished hugged and whatever implants behind.
Seriously, you have all the abilities to PvP without the fear of a loss if you really care about those pathetic implants, and still you whine.
Whine? Pathetic implants?
I wouldn't call +60% armor bonus and +5%-10% damage useless.
Do jumpclones transfer the bonus of my main body to the jumpclone?
I doubt it's CCP's intention to create great PVP implants but make it pointless/too risky to use them. With the introduction of interdictors the risks vs rewards of implants is not balanced anymore.
the main whine about implants it he skilling bonus lost, you can leave that behind safely in a jumpclone, if you take pvp implants in your brain and not use it in pvp anyway, why did you invest in those in the first place.
and for a final, what does interdictors, a mobile mobile warpscrambler have to do with implants risk?
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Yulag
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Posted - 2006.01.25 16:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Wild Rho
The good side of pvp implants is that they can make your character much more effective in combat.
The bad side is that they are an isk investment that can be lost.
This is one of the best examples of risk vs reward and doesn't need changed. Loss in pvp is reduced enough as it is right now.
You describe what I meant with risk vs reward.
Now the risk has increased, and it will increase even more in a few months.
The new situation then will be much bigger risk vs same reward. See my point?
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Yulag
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Posted - 2006.01.25 16:45:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Psychic Sue
and for a final, what does interdictors, a mobile mobile warpscrambler have to do with implants risk?
Are you serious?
Warpscrambled = 100% dead pod
Bubble and interdictors = 100% warpscrambled
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Psychic Sue
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Posted - 2006.01.25 16:47:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Yulag
Originally by: Psychic Sue
and for a final, what does interdictors, a mobile mobile warpscrambler have to do with implants risk?
Are you serious?
Warpscrambled = 100% dead pod
Bubble and interdictors = 100% warpscrambled
and this is is how much different from the not ship-based bubble we had for over a year now ?
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