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xaioguai
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Posted - 2006.01.27 02:55:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Tarminic
1. Reduce Speed and Agility (WCS draws power from engines)
3. Significant increase in signature radius (Extra energy expended lights up your ship like a christmas tree)
5. Reduction in shield/armor resistances (Draws energy from shield emitters/armor energizing systems)
instant lock/instant pop indy faster than ever   
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.01.27 03:08:00 -
[32]
Originally by: xaioguai
Originally by: Tarminic
1. Reduce Speed and Agility (WCS draws power from engines)
3. Significant increase in signature radius (Extra energy expended lights up your ship like a christmas tree)
5. Reduction in shield/armor resistances (Draws energy from shield emitters/armor energizing systems)
instant lock/instant pop indy faster than ever
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Tarminic
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Posted - 2006.01.27 03:21:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: xaioguai
Originally by: Tarminic
1. Reduce Speed and Agility (WCS draws power from engines)
3. Significant increase in signature radius (Extra energy expended lights up your ship like a christmas tree)
5. Reduction in shield/armor resistances (Draws energy from shield emitters/armor energizing systems)
instant lock/instant pop indy faster than ever
I wouldn't stick around long enough for that to happen, lol. On one hand though, Transports/Blockade Runners might be excepted from the above rules.
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Breed Love
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Posted - 2006.01.27 04:05:00 -
[34]
WCS are a defensive combat module, like many others. It is not a travelling mod. Thus they are fine and should not be changed.
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xaioguai
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Posted - 2006.01.27 04:15:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Breed Love
WCS are a defensive combat module, like many others. It is not a travelling mod. Thus they are fine and should not be changed.
WCS + raven or WCS + 1400pest with bm = uber
and according to EVE law, anything uber is bounded to nerfage, so instead nerfing raven or pest to IBIS, i'd rather have WCS nerf a bit
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Breed Love
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Posted - 2006.01.27 04:18:00 -
[36]
I'd rather nerf raven
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.01.27 04:53:00 -
[37]
People just need to fit for the fight. Stop *****ing about something you wont go out of your way to counter. If my ass gets damps then I get damped. I shouldn't be upset if my ass didn't fit a sensor booster to counter it. If I get target jammed then I get target jammed. My ass shouldn't ***** because my ass didn't fit the correct modules to counter it.
Tactics, Experience, Skill, and Setup win.
Nerfing my WCS is cool. I will adapt but it is needed. I'm not a pussie who flies with 10 other pilots. I don't gank. I need away to be solo. Being I can't straight shoot pilots in the head of there ship. Realisticly speaking.
-Famine, hates all alliances and all sheep in this game including you.
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.01.27 08:09:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri
If I get target jammed then I get target jammed. My ass shouldn't ***** because my ass didn't fit the correct modules to counter it.
Tactics, Experience, Skill, and Setup win.
so can you enlighten me why a frigate with 1 module can totally jam a geddon that has 8 tech2 backup arrays in lowslots?
and yes me and a buddie tested this and the ecm was totally unbalanced versus the backup arrays.
we tested with 2 backup arrays first, then 4 and finally 8 and it was the same result.
versus ECM there is only one setup that wins , ECM and stabs
its weird isnt it. it has nothing to do with experience or skill, just use ECM and stabs.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.01.27 08:33:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Clavius XIV
For those that want to change stabs, the biggest issue seems to be the issue with the amount of freedom they give PvP fittings to pick their fights, with minimal fitting penalty. To counter them often requires a large force or overwhelming firepower.
A few suggestions have to make them more balanced have included simpley increasing their fitting, or giving them combat penalty such as scan resolution. There was also a very in depth proposal involving warp cores having to recharge over time.
Consider this proposal:
Warp core stabilizers have no effect if you have an agression timer in effect that would prevent you from docking or jumping.
If you are in a travel or hauling fitting they work the same as they currently do.
If you are gurella PvPing and they enemy tries to blob you, you are free to warp off and your stabs will save you, so you can still pick your fights.
However one will no longer have the option of warping in and getting kills till things look bad and then disengating immideatly.
Do you people not get the idea?
STABS DO NOT NEED TO BE ALTERED. WE DO NOT NEED A 'SOLUTION' TO THEM ON COMBAT SHIPS BECAUSE THERE IS NO PROBLEM.
OK, Im cranky and hungover, and cant be bothered backing my point up with a real argument (again).
The Eve Guild Wars Project! |
Terradoct
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Posted - 2006.01.27 09:25:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Originally by: Clavius XIV
For those that want to change stabs, the biggest issue seems to be the issue with the amount of freedom they give PvP fittings to pick their fights, with minimal fitting penalty. To counter them often requires a large force or overwhelming firepower.
A few suggestions have to make them more balanced have included simpley increasing their fitting, or giving them combat penalty such as scan resolution. There was also a very in depth proposal involving warp cores having to recharge over time.
Consider this proposal:
Warp core stabilizers have no effect if you have an agression timer in effect that would prevent you from docking or jumping.
If you are in a travel or hauling fitting they work the same as they currently do.
If you are gurella PvPing and they enemy tries to blob you, you are free to warp off and your stabs will save you, so you can still pick your fights.
However one will no longer have the option of warping in and getting kills till things look bad and then disengating immideatly.
Do you people not get the idea?
STABS DO NOT NEED TO BE ALTERED. WE DO NOT NEED A 'SOLUTION' TO THEM ON COMBAT SHIPS BECAUSE THERE IS NO PROBLEM.
OK, Im cranky and hungover, and cant be bothered backing my point up with a real argument (again).
Yep they are fine, but don't moan when you face raven or any other ship that hase plenty of lows with 4+ WCS . Have fun kill it solo. Oh and how about Bombageddon (8SB+8WCS)? have fun psot then result plz.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.01.27 09:31:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Testy Mctest on 27/01/2006 09:30:53
Originally by: kessah
Tonight for example not my proudest moment but my gang engaging 4 hac's each one fitting at least 4+ wcs on there ship, to me it is not the argument of "these ships are expensive so why not" but its hurting the fact that the current mass popularity of pvp based set-up are ruining what ur ships are designed to do
Your entire gang couldnt muster 5 points of scrambling strength?
I suggest this link for setup help.
Now that we're in 'the era of the stab', you simply have to change to compensate. So everyone in your gang fits even simply a 1 point scram. Lets say you had 5 gang members. Thats 5 midslots wasted. All 4 HACs had 4+ lows filled with stabs. That's 16 low slots, at least. Would you rather waste 5 mids, or 16 lows?
I know which I'd rather have.
The Eve Guild Wars Project! |
Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.01.27 09:32:00 -
[42]
the idea from the op is the greatest ive heard so far.
itll stop, ravens as example, filled with stabs killing a frig and then warping off with 2 other frigs sctramming.
great idea!
-
Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Ahop Yol
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Posted - 2006.01.27 09:43:00 -
[43]
Drop the WCS whining already. They are fine. Perhaps you should employ the use of more tacklers in PVP (perhaps even some noobs in T1 frigs and cruisers so that everyone gets a go at some pvp).
Taking out WCS or nerfing them will just remove the need for tacklers (read: newer pilots with less cash).
Doing this would just be WRONG. Stop whining and engage your brains. A heavily stabbed ship should be VERY easy to take out if you can pin it down - which you CAN - TACKLERS!!! FFS.
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elFarto
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Posted - 2006.01.27 09:48:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
STABS DO NOT NEED TO BE ALTERED. WE DO NOT NEED A 'SOLUTION' TO THEM ON COMBAT SHIPS BECAUSE THERE IS NO PROBLEM.
QFT. Just because other people want to not get scrambled (or at least, lower the chance), don't whing that you can't lock them down. Fit more scramblers, get more people, use interdictors/warp bubbles if your in 0.0. They do not need changing.
Regards
elFarto
npc.elfarto.com > Ingame NPC database |
TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2006.01.27 11:04:00 -
[45]
I like stabs just the way they are.
But the easiest way to change them is to change the way Warp stability works.
Make Different ship sizes require diffent WCS in order to get the +1 Warp core stability.
Just like we have 100mn, 10mn, 1mn Propulsion upgrades, make WCS exactly the same. 100mn,10mn,1mn WCS then the fittin requirements are higher, making it harder to use you normal ship setup if you want Warp core stability.
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weedmasta
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Posted - 2006.01.27 11:07:00 -
[46]
Referring to the first post, i think stabilizers are good the way they are. Fittings are vital in PvP and plenty, there are different ways of countering them too however. A guy with 2 or 3 warp core stabilizers won't be able to fit other mods in those slots. That is, he will be less combat effective, which is already a disadvantage. Then there is the risk of the opposing party to have more warp jam strength. I don't see a problem at all with warp core stabilizers. Looking at the top post i think it is just a bad excuse to kill players easier. If u can't catch whomever, fit more jammers and you are sorted...
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Hickock
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Posted - 2006.01.27 12:51:00 -
[47]
mommy mommy the boy next door wont stand still while me and the gang beat the crap out of him. Please take the wheels off his bike@
Absurdity, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.01.27 12:58:00 -
[48]
mommy mommy the boy next door is so much better then me, please help me with a module thats overpowerd so i dont have to learn to catch up
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Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Agnar Koladrov
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Posted - 2006.01.27 14:05:00 -
[49]
They ought to drop warp jammers and WCS`s and introduce Warp Scrambling Missiles. Defenders can take out these missiles, and the introduction of Close Proximity Cannons could also help defend against those missiles.
Just a though, cause I liked the way it worked in Freelancer.
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kessah
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Posted - 2006.01.27 14:19:00 -
[50]
Dont you guys find it funny the people that are tierd of these threads and are posting abusive and Sarcastic posts are the ones that fit the usual 4+ wcs and the annoyance smack talkers in local when it doesnt go there way *more towards the abusive\sarcastic posters*
can i ask u this guys would you not prefer to put an extra dmg mod in there? or perhaps a hardeners against a certain dmg type? hmmmm?
Why would you, i dont blame you i know its more effective to fit 4 wcs in low on a bs or hac.
But thats the point, most people dont want to do that, most people like to utilise there ship for more inventive set-ups and longer pvp battles.
ECM based system would be better idea for the warp scramblers. No defence or minor at least, You'll havta stick on a beefer tank to last longer for that 'gap' to warp.
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Hickock
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Posted - 2006.01.27 15:28:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Hickock on 27/01/2006 15:33:00
Originally by: kessah
Dont you guys find it funny the people that are tierd of these threads and are posting abusive and Sarcastic posts are the ones that fit the usual 4+ wcs and the annoyance smack talkers in local when it doesnt go there way *more towards the abusive\sarcastic posters*
can i ask u this guys would you not prefer to put an extra dmg mod in there? or perhaps a hardeners against a certain dmg type? hmmmm?
Why would you, i dont blame you i know its more effective to fit 4 wcs in low on a bs or hac.
But thats the point, most people dont want to do that, most people like to utilise there ship for more inventive set-ups and longer pvp battles.
Perhaps you consider my post sarcastic - I was only trying to cummunicate metaphorically the idea that -
EVE is a game for people with many different interests and not everyone wants to pvp, especially on the terms of those with a significant numerical advantage.
It is no fun for me to have no chance of winning. Fair fight, reasonable odds I fight, gang gank or just when I want to get from A to B I run away. Discretion is after all the better part of valour.
Absurdity, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.01.27 15:37:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Agnar Koladrov
They ought to drop warp jammers and WCS`s and introduce Warp Scrambling Missiles. Defenders can take out these missiles, and the introduction of Close Proximity Cannons could also help defend against those missiles.
Just a though, cause I liked the way it worked in Freelancer.
Then they'd have to introduce warp scrambling lasers and hybrids.
No warp scrambling projectiles though, since it's against policy to make Minmatar as good as anyone else.
The Eve Guild Wars Project! |
kessah
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Posted - 2006.01.27 15:38:00 -
[53]
Edited by: kessah on 27/01/2006 15:41:35
since u edited your post i shall do the same. Glad u relise being a smartass dun really get u anywhere.
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Rethor Badus
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Posted - 2006.01.27 16:00:00 -
[54]
Imo the sooner they change WCS the better, a sniping tempest with 150km BM around a station, with 4 stabs should not happen, im sick of burning to them getting 2 points and then watch the sob warp off to a deep ss and logg off :/, the idea about making 1mw 10mw and 100mw WCS was the best one imo, then a tempest will need to fit 4 100mw WCS = no guns :D.... even a domi would have to loose tonns of a tank, hell u could even make WCS nerf drones when fitted (the warp stabalization field interfears with the drones response arrays), u could make it scew up tracking for the same reason) personally i don think u should be able to log off in space at all, u logg off in space & ur ship will stay there until u log back on... simple really. Oh and make scan probs X5 more effective and fast.... that way "the oh so great and realistic logging off tactic" will no longer be useable.."..
And b4 all the ppl say "OMG I DONT WANT TO BE FORCED TO DOCK TO LOGG OFF, WHAT IF SOMETHINGS HAPPENS AND I HAVE TO GO OUT!!!!" well, plan ur trips, make sure u have enuff time to get back, otherwise u can loose ur ship....
Ohh and another thing, u could make it so when ppl logg off in space u can steal there ship, and if u do while there in there u can steal there juicy implants then kill em
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Tribunal
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Posted - 2006.01.27 16:20:00 -
[55]
So, let me get this right. The OP and others wish to make a WCS unusable in combat? Have you seriously sat down and thought of the mess that would cause? Turning scramblers into an insta win button is not the answer.
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.01.27 16:22:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Malken
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri
If I get target jammed then I get target jammed. My ass shouldn't ***** because my ass didn't fit the correct modules to counter it.
Tactics, Experience, Skill, and Setup win.
so can you enlighten me why a frigate with 1 module can totally jam a geddon that has 8 tech2 backup arrays in lowslots?
and yes me and a buddie tested this and the ecm was totally unbalanced versus the backup arrays.
we tested with 2 backup arrays first, then 4 and finally 8 and it was the same result.
versus ECM there is only one setup that wins , ECM and stabs
its weird isnt it. it has nothing to do with experience or skill, just use ECM and stabs.
Figures you would say something as stupid as this. You know it has a chance to jam. Anyone skilled in ECM now knows it's not about 1 target jam. It's about a full or almost full target jam every cycle. I fly a very expensive ECM setup now. On a non-bonus ECM jamming ship. I wouldn't be caught dead with just 1 ECM module. Because it is UNEFFECTIVE. Sure I might get 1 target jam. Properly the first cycle being it seems to be the magic time for ECM. 1 Target jam is not killing the person.
Soon as you fails = You Dead.
I'm sure in some cases in rare events 1 ECM jam is all you need. Just look at these stats
-1 ECM II or similar vs these ships-
Geddon - 35.29%
Geddon Boost - 30.00%
Apocalypse - 30.00%
Apocalypse Boost - 25.0%
Raven - 27.27%
Raven Boost - 23.00%
Scorpion - 25.00%
Scorpion Boost - 22.00%
More counters obviously lower it more and more. Still have that 1 chance to jam. But it's not about just getting 1. It's about getting it everytime. Thank you goodbye
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Justice Bringer
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Posted - 2006.01.27 16:42:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Phoenix Jones
If they want to be a coward and run... let them run.
Oh gate campers taking on a hauler or a lone pilot, and the pilot decides to run because he's fitted wcs!
Who's the coward?
Or the lone fighter pilot being ganked by more than 1 opponent is deemed a coward because he doesn't see the point in doing a kamikaze against his attackers?
Coward? 
Don't think so. It's smart that's what that is. Know your opponent and if needs be, retreat, regroup, re-engage.
If someone's punching you in your head will you just stand still and take it? Not if you're smart you won't.
You play your style, and let those who fit wcs play their style. You don't like the game they play so you simply call them cowards....!!
Justice 
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