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Clavius XIV
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Posted - 2006.01.26 19:12:00 -
[1]
For those that want to change stabs, the biggest issue seems to be the issue with the amount of freedom they give PvP fittings to pick their fights, with minimal fitting penalty. To counter them often requires a large force or overwhelming firepower.
A few suggestions have to make them more balanced have included simpley increasing their fitting, or giving them combat penalty such as scan resolution. There was also a very in depth proposal involving warp cores having to recharge over time.
Consider this proposal: Warp core stabilizers have no effect if you have an agression timer in effect that would prevent you from docking or jumping.
If you are in a travel or hauling fitting they work the same as they currently do.
If you are gurella PvPing and they enemy tries to blob you, you are free to warp off and your stabs will save you, so you can still pick your fights. However one will no longer have the option of warping in and getting kills till things look bad and then disengating immideatly.
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Cypherous
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Posted - 2006.01.26 19:15:00 -
[2]
While the idea of making stabs have a negative effect is not new yours is a slight variation on what has been proposed, while i would like to see them have some sort of effect i don't think this is the one, best solution by far is the making them an active module idea that was posted imho.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.26 19:24:00 -
[3]
Great, Clavius.
You know what that means? Yes, less fights. Because unless they're sure they can win they won't fight. And if they're using WCS in the first place, they're unlikely to be the "get stuck in" sort.
Less fights, less fun. Pass.
--------------------------------------------------------------- Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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R31D
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Posted - 2006.01.26 19:31:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Maya Rkell Great, Clavius.
You know what that means? Yes, less fights. Because unless they're sure they can win they won't fight. And if they're using WCS in the first place, they're unlikely to be the "get stuck in" sort.
Less fights, less fun. Pass.
I'd prefer not to fight than to have my target warp off when I'm just about to get a kill. It would make more people decide whether they're going to PvP or not and most people will choose to PvP without stabs. Those that don't will quit EVE. You'll get a few less fights but they will be fights worth taking part in.
Free bumpage for all |
Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.01.26 19:41:00 -
[5]
Make em highslots; Simple.
Either you fight or you travel, with stabs in highslots you can no longer do both. -------------
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Phoenix Jones
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Posted - 2006.01.26 19:46:00 -
[6]
If they want to be a coward and run... let them run.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2006.01.26 19:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: R31D
Originally by: Maya Rkell Great, Clavius.
You know what that means? Yes, less fights. Because unless they're sure they can win they won't fight. And if they're using WCS in the first place, they're unlikely to be the "get stuck in" sort.
Less fights, less fun. Pass.
I'd prefer not to fight than to have my target warp off when I'm just about to get a kill. It would make more people decide whether they're going to PvP or not and most people will choose to PvP without stabs. Those that don't will quit EVE. You'll get a few less fights but they will be fights worth taking part in.
Well said, 100% agreed.
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Make em highslots; Simple.
Either you fight or you travel, with stabs in highslots you can no longer do both.
That + vastly increased cpu use (to prevent scorps from jam stabbing). ________________________________________________________
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Filan
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Posted - 2006.01.26 19:49:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Make em highslots; Simple.
Either you fight or you travel, with stabs in highslots you can no longer do both.
then haulers would need more then two high slots or it would have to be impossible to put more then +2 jam on any one ship at a time.
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2006.01.26 19:50:00 -
[9]
They just need to ******* make them like every other ECM module.
Note: Each ship already has a listed Propulsion Strength. This strength is then pitted against a new variety of warp scramblers, Including: Multispectral Scrambler: -2 to all (close range 7500) [Race] Scrambler: -3 or 4 to the specific race to which it applies, -1 to the rest. Long range (20km)
We then take these, and use the same formula that is used to decide whether or not the target is scrambled.
Bump it back up to a 10-15 second duration, that shuts off when the damn ship is blown up.
Shuttles and pods wouuld have a strength of 1, allowing all scramblers to get them, and Freighters, would have a strength of 4, needing hte racial to effectively hold it in place, else it gives it a slight chance of escaping.
Now, this also opens the option for Tech2 Warp core stabs AND warp scramblers, along with a skill that increases the strength of these modules. Stabs would also become a +xx% to strength, with a slight stacking penalty... ---
I Post on the forums for Fate. Im cool. Fate. Recruitment Thread |
Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.01.26 19:55:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 26/01/2006 19:55:26
Originally by: Filan
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Make em highslots; Simple.
Either you fight or you travel, with stabs in highslots you can no longer do both.
then haulers would need more then two high slots
True adding 2-3 Util highslots to indys would work.
Originally by: Hamatitio They just need to ******* make them like every other ECM module.
Ugh, i really HATE all the chance based crap especially because im never lucky... -------------
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2006.01.26 20:00:00 -
[11]
Indies: 5 WCS with 5 Nanos or 5 Cargo Expanders. Battleships: 8 WCS with 7 Nanofibers.
Have fun never killing either of them again.
High slots FTL ---
I Post on the forums for Fate. Im cool. Fate. Recruitment Thread |
Darpz
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Posted - 2006.01.26 20:19:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Make em highslots; Simple.
Either you fight or you travel, with stabs in highslots you can no longer do both.
armor tanked stabed domi 4tw
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Darpz
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi CCP will nerf this probably, but hey, worth a try
so your saying I should of kept my mouth shut?
Yup.
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Joshua Keeling
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Posted - 2006.01.26 21:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Clavius XIV For those that want to change stabs, the biggest issue seems to be the issue with the amount of freedom they give PvP fittings to pick their fights, with minimal fitting penalty. To counter them often requires a large force or overwhelming firepower.
A few suggestions have to make them more balanced have included simpley increasing their fitting, or giving them combat penalty such as scan resolution. There was also a very in depth proposal involving warp cores having to recharge over time.
Consider this proposal: Warp core stabilizers have no effect if you have an agression timer in effect that would prevent you from docking or jumping.
If you are in a travel or hauling fitting they work the same as they currently do.
If you are gurella PvPing and they enemy tries to blob you, you are free to warp off and your stabs will save you, so you can still pick your fights. However one will no longer have the option of warping in and getting kills till things look bad and then disengating immideatly.
I dont think ive met a CVA that doesn't fir stabs umm k? 24kb filesize and 400w x 120h are the maximum dimensions for signature images. --Jorauk |
Gabby05
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Posted - 2006.01.26 22:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Make em highslots; Simple.
Either you fight or you travel, with stabs in highslots you can no longer do both.
Stabbed industrial using several local hull expanders
In your other post, how many highslots should an industrial have??? make it equal to lowslots or just put any random number???
Sure you've said this in other threads but you never give the slot layouts for civilian ships that wouldnt cause an inbalance.
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.01.26 23:17:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Ras Blumin on 26/01/2006 23:17:20 Good suggestion imo. Won't stop npc'ers from warping off with points on 'em but I can (barely) live with that.
p - l - u - r
My first vid |
Weirda
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Posted - 2006.01.26 23:32:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Weirda on 26/01/2006 23:32:58
Originally by: Darpz
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Make em highslots; Simple.
Either you fight or you travel, with stabs in highslots you can no longer do both.
armor tanked stabed domi 4tw
domi make an interesting problem though. highslots don't work for so many reasons.
basically if you have it as active high slot (or hell active any slot for that matter), it should have activation timer and no other modules can be activated (including tank) when activated...
starts to get too complicated...
OP idea is really best to build on iwho - because it deals most directly with the problem of ppl using their 'genius' tactics of running in and out and having wcs as part of their combat strategy. it is the only one that deals with 'ew scorps'/'armor domis'/etc equally.
regardless: when engaging warp there should be a 'shot in the back while running like ninny' penalty where every hit as you are getting up to speed is wrecking)... so travel setups will have to take the chance of getting a slew of wreckings on their way out into account on their setup... __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More! The pumps don't work... |
xaioguai
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Posted - 2006.01.26 23:34:00 -
[17]
Why go through all these trouble, just increase the CPU requirement to 100, last i check, all indies have huge CPU to spare and i seriously doubt RAVEN can come up with 500CPU and yet able to fit anything.
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Chinsor
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Posted - 2006.01.26 23:37:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Make em highslots; Simple.
Either you fight or you travel, with stabs in highslots you can no longer do both.
here here
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Weirda
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Posted - 2006.01.26 23:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Chinsor
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Make em highslots; Simple.
Either you fight or you travel, with stabs in highslots you can no longer do both.
here here
please see posts about domi's and scorps... well... basically any ship that doesn't HAVE to rely on high slot to fill it's role... only half baked tbh... __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More! The pumps don't work... |
Weirda
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Posted - 2006.01.26 23:40:00 -
[20]
Originally by: xaioguai Why go through all these trouble, just increase the CPU requirement to 100, last i check, all indies have huge CPU to spare and i seriously doubt RAVEN can come up with 500CPU and yet able to fit anything.
this is cool too - especially if we can still do the 'shot in the back while running like ninny' penalty... __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More! The pumps don't work... |
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.26 23:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Make em highslots; Simple.
Either you fight or you travel, with stabs in highslots you can no longer do both.
Ships with 6 large guns and 8 highslots disagree with you. You just let them mount 3 damage mods, 3 tracking enhancers, AND 2 WCS. Er... sniper more?
Pass.
--------------------------------------------------------------- Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Logan West
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Posted - 2006.01.26 23:52:00 -
[22]
Please use the Features and Ideas forum, I'm sick of seeing this crap in here.
"I solemnly swear never to camp a spawn, to twink a mule, to farm a mob. I will not beg for nerfs, or macro for money. I am a gamer, and I swear to have fun."
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LordZer00
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Posted - 2006.01.26 23:53:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Make em highslots; Simple.
Either you fight or you travel, with stabs in highslots you can no longer do both.
Oh yeah, of course, perfect Idea.... you know, since the only type of gameplay that should be allowed for is PVP. So, Lets nerf anyone that is, say, hunting NPC's in low sec, or in essence, Buffing the Pirates. Making WCS highslot modules would mean that anyone that wanted to go to low sec (0.4 to 0.1) to hunt rats would have to leave themselves wide open to being jumped and scrambled by Pirates. But then again they should probably just remove Npc's all together, because hunting them is not PVP, and is therefore, obviously, not a valid thing to do in Eve. Right?
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.01.26 23:58:00 -
[24]
Make them a mid or high-slot remote module, so you can increase the warp-strength of someone else but not yourself. Hell, to make things more interesting, they could boost the warp strength of your target while reducing yours by the same amount.
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Ebedar
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Posted - 2006.01.27 00:02:00 -
[25]
Stabs are such a pain on 'combat' ships.
I'd like to see the CPU on them doubled and for them to have an activation cost equivalent to a Warp Disruptor. Possibly add a further penalty that would affect 'combat' ships more than, say, a hauler (maybe a decrease in scan resolution or increase in sig radius).
One Step Further |
Malken
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Posted - 2006.01.27 00:18:00 -
[26]
my opinion is that it is to expensive for people to loose their ships so they make sure they can run instead.
up insurance on T2 ships and increase availability several hundred % also increase availability on all tech2 gear also wich would make it not cost them 100mill just to fit a ship ontop of the shipcost. if the cost of pvp comes down then more people will find it fun and do it more.
afterall it is a game and is supposed to be fun first and foremost. and to put it frankly, mining and mission whoring just isnt fun in the long run.
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JA RULER
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Posted - 2006.01.27 01:36:00 -
[27]
I like the racial ideal with 7500 and 20km scrams the best as each race would naturally use different technologys of warping. Using stabs should yes be a little more on the cpu side or PG side. either u should use them for traveling or not in which case it stops the ganking of haulers and then running off like a little girl amd logging. U could also make it that they make it longer for u to warp also, so to increase the time u can be under attack as they will naturally effect any warp bubble you have. Which in these case making your warp bubble stronger should mean it takes longer to form a bubble to overcome the scrambing. more stabs = longer warp waiting time. its possible that they should also use cap but i would not say a huge amount. do keep them on lows though as this will mean tanking or running is still a choice. If you for-go tanking and put a stab on then your enemy will get in more shots in on you as you take longer to warp out and becuase u have no tank u may go down sooner than u think.
anyway just my 2 cents.
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Flash Landsraad
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Posted - 2006.01.27 01:42:00 -
[28]
I was thinking maybe stabs could nerf your agility?
If you fit them you have a higher warp strength like you do now, however you would have to decide whether a higher agility (faster warping) is more beneficial or whether being resistant to scrambling is more beneficial.
This would mean that the more stabs someone carries the greater chance of killing them before they warp off. The less they fit the more chance of scrambling them but the lesser chance of killing them before they warp if they're not in scramble range.
Good or bad idea?
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Tarminic
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Posted - 2006.01.27 02:39:00 -
[29]
Let's think about what would make the most sense here. Warp Core Stabilizers increase the strength of your propulsion system so it can't be disrupted, right? Well, there are several effective and justifiable ways one could balance this out: 1. Reduce Speed and Agility (WCS draws power from engines) 2. Reduction in Cap/Cap Recharge (WCS draws power from the capaciter) 3. Significant increase in signature radius (Extra energy expended lights up your ship like a christmas tree) 4. Significant reduction in targeting range/scan resolution/sensor strength (Interference from them disrupts targeting) 5. Reduction in shield/armor resistances (Draws energy from shield emitters/armor energizing systems)
Each of these significantly affects PvP players without putting haulers at a horrible disadvantage...why wouldn't one of these options work?
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kessah
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Posted - 2006.01.27 02:49:00 -
[30]
My thoughts are changing on this suject - people do seem to have a rather hostile attitude about people that complain about them and atm im starting to side with the whiners.
Tonight for example not my proudest moment but my gang engaging 4 hac's each one fitting at least 4+ wcs on there ship, to me it is not the argument of "these ships are expensive so why not" but its hurting the fact that the current mass popularity of pvp based set-up are ruining what ur ships are designed to do.
What would u fit if there was no fear of scrambling?
I feel a more compromising approach to this problem is the Jamming base idea. Like ECM is now there is that chance u cannot be jammed for a cycle. Or even the more popular highslot idea, but this still overpowers the scrambler.
Or perhaps only industrials are the only ship permitted to use wcs?
I only make my opinions on this now as it really is ruining the way ships such as the zealot or other hacs battleships and whatnot are fitted for.
The end result of 2nite escapade was that all my gang were scrambled becus we did not fit wcs and in fact held are tanks for a good long time before there battleship support eventually came in and took us down slowly.
It was fun watching my apoc tank like that, even with 3 Hac's and 2\3 Battleship shooting & Jamming me the poc lasted several 'long' minutes. But with that in mind it was just delaying the enevitable.
Why bother tanking when i could have simply stuck on a load of WCS and got away. Its a shame really.
I dont know what should be done but i believe something does need to be done.
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