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Meeko Gloom	Posted - 2006.01.29 16:25:00 - [1] we need a mod to drop flares or chaff at incoming missiles, Like a tracking disruptor. cuz i dont care how adv. the calidra are, 110% of the missiles fired should not hit their target!! this is not a whine thread i just what the game more real
Rawthorm	Posted - 2006.01.29 16:27:00 - [2] Edited by: Rawthorm on 29/01/2006 16:28:42 Originally by: Meeko Gloom we need a mod to drop flares or chaff at incoming missiles, Like a tracking disruptor. cuz i dont care how adv. the calidra are, 110% of the missiles fired should not hit their target!! this is not a whine thread i just what the game more real Defender missiles my good man. Wont work up close but at range and with the right skills they are very effective. (if you bother to train the missile skills to go with it)
Koori	Posted - 2006.01.29 16:27:00 - [3] There are Defender missiles. Using them you can prevent missile from hitting you. I've heard defenders are bugged atm, so you can try it and file a bug report if they donesn't work. - ------------------------------------------- Helios enterprises is recruiting. 0% tax, 100% fun.
Meeko Gloom	Posted - 2006.01.29 16:29:00 - [4] Originally by: Koori There are Defender missiles. Using them you can prevent missile from hitting you. I've heard defenders are bugged atm, so you can try it and file a bug report if they donesn't work. o yea defenders work
Rawthorm	Posted - 2006.01.29 16:31:00 - [5] Originally by: Meeko Gloom Originally by: Koori There are Defender missiles. Using them you can prevent missile from hitting you. I've heard defenders are bugged atm, so you can try it and file a bug report if they donesn't work. o yea defenders work Let me guess you sit at 5km, a range so close the missile has hit you before your defender even knows its there and wonder why you get hit? They are the oposit of tracking disruptors in terms of range to effectiveness. The further you are from target the better defenders work. The closer you are the better tracking disruptors work.
Meeko Gloom	Posted - 2006.01.29 16:32:00 - [6] Originally by: Rawthorm Edited by: Rawthorm on 29/01/2006 16:28:42 Originally by: Meeko Gloom we need a mod to drop flares or chaff at incoming missiles, Like a tracking disruptor. cuz i dont care how adv. the calidra are, 110% of the missiles fired should not hit their target!! this is not a whine thread i just what the game more real Defender missiles my good man. Wont work up close but at range and with the right skills they are very effective. (if you bother to train the missile skills to go with it) besides you have to ruin a great hi slot on defenders when they can use a med and keep thier attack and like said at close ranges defenders work like **** and i would like be able to counter a volley of missiles wouldnt you?
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.01.29 16:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Rawthorm Let me guess you sit at 5km, a range so close the missile has hit you before your defender even knows its there and wonder why you get hit? They are the oposit of tracking disruptors in terms of range to effectiveness. The further you are from target the better defenders work. The closer you are the better tracking disruptors work. Not really. Tracking Disruptors work at 70k aswell as at 5k. Defenders just generally suck. Like it or not Raw, missiles have no counters right now. Let's not bring up the fact tech2 missiles pretty much made any missile changes done in the past to balance missiles against smaller targets obsolete, eh?
Rawthorm	Posted - 2006.01.29 16:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Meeko Gloom Originally by: Rawthorm Edited by: Rawthorm on 29/01/2006 16:28:42 Originally by: Meeko Gloom we need a mod to drop flares or chaff at incoming missiles, Like a tracking disruptor. cuz i dont care how adv. the calidra are, 110% of the missiles fired should not hit their target!! this is not a whine thread i just what the game more real Defender missiles my good man. Wont work up close but at range and with the right skills they are very effective. (if you bother to train the missile skills to go with it) besides you have to ruin a great hi slot on defenders when they can use a med and keep thier attack and like said at close ranges defenders work like **** and i would like be able to counter a volley of missiles wouldnt you? Defenders requier you to sacrifice a little offensive power, Tracking disruptors make you sacrifice a slot for tank or cap. This isnt a game of little grey boxes, everything has minor diferances. Now instead of trying to change defenders how about you change from blasters to rails and attack from range if you want defenders to work that baddly. Don't complain because you are using them in a completly wrong situation, its your job to adapt to the game not the game to adapt to you.
Rawthorm	Posted - 2006.01.29 16:39:00 - [9] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Originally by: Rawthorm Let me guess you sit at 5km, a range so close the missile has hit you before your defender even knows its there and wonder why you get hit? They are the oposit of tracking disruptors in terms of range to effectiveness. The further you are from target the better defenders work. The closer you are the better tracking disruptors work. Not really. Tracking Disruptors work at 70k aswell as at 5k. Defenders just generally suck. Like it or not Raw, missiles have no counters right now. Let's not bring up the fact tech2 missiles pretty much made any missile changes done in the past to balance missiles against smaller targets obsolete, eh? And Defenders work from about 35km up to any range you like, well beyond tracking disruptor range. (and they do work if you train missile skills up cos i've faced well trained people who've plucked most of my missiles out of the air before) As for tech 2 missiles, as I said in another thread all Tech 2 ammo was invented while on a massive crack binge so lets not even get into that.
Meeko Gloom	Posted - 2006.01.29 16:40:00 - [10] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Originally by: Rawthorm Let me guess you sit at 5km, a range so close the missile has hit you before your defender even knows its there and wonder why you get hit? They are the oposit of tracking disruptors in terms of range to effectiveness. The further you are from target the better defenders work. The closer you are the better tracking disruptors work. Not really. Tracking Disruptors work at 70k aswell as at 5k. Defenders just generally suck. Like it or not Raw, missiles have no counters right now. Let's not bring up the fact tech2 missiles pretty much made any missile changes done in the past to balance missiles against smaller targets obsolete, eh? thnx someone has their head on straight, a raven a 5km will hit everytime no matter what, try that with a mega plus read this treadLinkage
Meeko Gloom	Posted - 2006.01.29 16:46:00 - [11] Originally by: Rawthorm Originally by: Elve Sorrow Originally by: Rawthorm Let me guess you sit at 5km, a range so close the missile has hit you before your defender even knows its there and wonder why you get hit? They are the oposit of tracking disruptors in terms of range to effectiveness. The further you are from target the better defenders work. The closer you are the better tracking disruptors work. Not really. Tracking Disruptors work at 70k aswell as at 5k. Defenders just generally suck. Like it or not Raw, missiles have no counters right now. Let's not bring up the fact tech2 missiles pretty much made any missile changes done in the past to balance missiles against smaller targets obsolete, eh? And Defenders work from about 35km up to any range you like, well beyond tracking disruptor range. (and they do work if you train missile skills up cos i've faced well trained people who've plucked most of my missiles out of the air before) As for tech 2 missiles, as I said in another thread all Tech 2 ammo was invented while on a massive crack binge so lets not even get into that. o yea i forget if its a torp raven u'll waste more that one high slot, u have to fire several defeneders to take that thing down, but you better belive your neutron cannon wont hit the side of a barn with one tracking disurtor one you
Morgana Janan	Posted - 2006.01.29 17:22:00 - [12] Well, I do think one interesting thing they could put in Kali or something is some sort of CIWS type system for ships. Takes up a high slot just like defenders, but uses turrets instead of missiles. Also unlike missiles uses more cap. Give it very limited range, so while you might, say, take down a torpedo with the thing... you still risk getting hit with splash damage. Also, at least with hybrid and projectile defense guns, requires ammo. Probably a lot of CPU for a system that size, especially on a larger ship. Like, say, 5% or something. Gives a new level of play, in my opinion. You have to sacrifice a high slot, space, and a decent amount of CPU for a system that provides a level of defense against missiles. Not a magic shield of protection, but better than nothing. Also puts foward another possibility for fleet actions: point defense ship. Using a cruiser or frigate to cover larger ships, like battleships and dreadnauts, against massed missile attacks. It would help balance the Caldari some, as it seems to me odd that nobody, especially the Gallente, has developed a turret-based point defense system. Of all groups you'd think they would.
Meridius	Posted - 2006.01.29 17:28:00 - [13] Originally by: Rawthorm Defenders requier you to sacrifice a little offensive power...blah blah blah Please tell me how to fit defenders on all my ships that don't have launcher points? This list of ships is quite long so you better have a good solution... ________________________________________________________
Meeko Gloom	Posted - 2006.01.29 17:43:00 - [14] Edited by: Meeko Gloom on 29/01/2006 17:43:35 Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Rawthorm Defenders requier you to sacrifice a little offensive power...blah blah blah Please tell me how to fit defenders on all my ships that don't have launcher points? This list of ships is quite long so you better have a good solution... true i forgot about the gankageddon or domi, lol yea try to stop a volley in torp in that ship
Meridius	Posted - 2006.01.29 18:12:00 - [15] Originally by: Meeko Gloom Edited by: Meeko Gloom on 29/01/2006 17:43:35 Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Rawthorm Defenders requier you to sacrifice a little offensive power...blah blah blah Please tell me how to fit defenders on all my ships that don't have launcher points? This list of ships is quite long so you better have a good solution... true i forgot about the gankageddon or domi, lol yea try to stop a volley in torp in that ship Or the Zealot/Vexor/Thorax/Maller/Augoror/Punisher/Executioner/Incursus/Retribution/Ishkur and countless other ships Imagine if that many ships couldn't fit tracking disruptors heh. ________________________________________________________
Meeko Gloom	Posted - 2006.01.29 18:40:00 - [16] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Meeko Gloom Edited by: Meeko Gloom on 29/01/2006 17:43:35 Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Rawthorm Defenders requier you to sacrifice a little offensive power...blah blah blah Please tell me how to fit defenders on all my ships that don't have launcher points? This list of ships is quite long so you better have a good solution... true i forgot about the gankageddon or domi, lol yea try to stop a volley in torp in that ship Or the Zealot/Vexor/Thorax/Maller/Augoror/Punisher/Executioner/Incursus/Retribution/Ishkur and countless other ships Imagine if that many ships couldn't fit tracking disruptors heh. my point
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.01.29 18:47:00 - [17] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 29/01/2006 18:46:52 Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Rawthorm Defenders requier you to sacrifice a little offensive power...blah blah blah Please tell me how to fit defenders on all my ships that don't have launcher points? This list of ships is quite long so you better have a good solution... Yea, the soloution is they don't work so missile ships have been balanced ignoring them. --------------------------------------------------------------- Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
Erezeneb	Posted - 2006.01.29 18:55:00 - [18] Smartbombs
Meeko Gloom	Posted - 2006.01.29 18:57:00 - [19] Originally by: Erezeneb Smartbombs yea and die by the hands of concord
ErrorS	Posted - 2006.01.29 19:40:00 - [20] Edited by: ErrorS on 29/01/2006 19:40:31 they should add chaff.. low, mid AND high slot (comes in all flavors), lasts 10mins and messes up all incoming missiles. Uses 10CPU and 50Grid, ammunition is 0.001m3 and it has a refire rate of 30 seconds.. i'd also like turrets to get jammed, lasers to overheat, projectiles to explode in barrels .. occasionally of course.. but when it happens your gun is destroyed. drones should malfunction, attack targets you don't want them to attack, not attack targets you do want them to, stop for no apparent reason, move slowly towards the target, not return to your ship when you want them to.. err, wait.. nevermind the drone one (for those of you who don't get it..... im joking) ________ I'm strict Caldari "The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think? -ErrorS
madaluap	Posted - 2006.01.29 20:00:00 - [21] we'll this is all true, make a module that emits a forcefield thats disrupts missiles their guidance system, lets say by 30% . only works on 1 target @ the same time or you fit more than 1 offcourse. _________________________________________________
Reatu Krentor	Posted - 2006.01.29 20:17:00 - [22] just make a guidance disruptor, like tracking disruptor. You can even have accompanying guidance computer (eq. tracking computer) and guidance link problem solved imo (and get rid of defender) ------------------------------------------ The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr.
Shimas	Posted - 2006.01.29 20:17:00 - [23] you can also use a smartbomb to defeat missiles. Timing is everything.
Halleck Gurney	Posted - 2006.01.29 20:34:00 - [24] Or use ECM ... you break his lock and force him to use FoF ... if he bothered to bring them along.
Meeko Gloom	Posted - 2006.01.29 20:37:00 - [25] Originally by: Halleck Gurney Or use ECM ... you break his lock and force him to use FoF ... if he bothered to bring them along. have you ever tryed to jam a raven in a geddon... didnt think so i dont even think its possible
Meridius	Posted - 2006.01.29 20:40:00 - [26] Originally by: Maya Rkell Yea, the soloution is they don't work so missile ships have been balanced ignoring them. Yeah sure ________________________________________________________
Le Snoet	Posted - 2006.01.29 21:01:00 - [27] something like this ? Goalkeeper In that case, it would be a high slot module.
Morgana Janan	Posted - 2006.01.29 21:47:00 - [28] Originally by: Le Snoet something like this ? Goalkeeper In that case, it would be a high slot module. That's actually exactly what I had in mind in my post when I was talking about anti-missile turrets. The kind of guns found on just about every ship in a modern navy these days. You'd think in a world with stargates and cloned pod pilots they'd also remember the concept of how very difficult it is to miss when you throw a few thousand bullets at an object in two seconds. As both of us said, a definite high slot module and probably CPU demanding. Even if each turret had a 30% chance of shooting down incoming missiles, that'd help balance the situation. Actually, I can see a whole line of defenses like this. Anti-missile drones, and larger anti-missile systems for defending other ships. I think it would make an interesting strategy, sacrificing one ship's entire offensive potential to help shield a heavy hitter in a fleet action. Kind of like in real world naval actions and such. "Point Defense Link" or something, so one ship can use it's defensive weapons - like PD turrets, defender missiles, and such - to target missiles targeting the linked ship. Downside is that the defending ship can't as easily defend itself, as it's turrets and defense weapons are now targeting incoming missiles for both itself and the ship(s) it's escoring... maybe even only the escorted ship. As for those who say it nerfs missiles... it dosn't really. In the real world, guns like this can be dealt with either by overloading them with sheer number of targets, electronic warfare, whatever. They can still be affected by turret disruptors, can only target one missile at a time, and have limited range. I like this idea, myself. What do you guys think?
Rabbitgod	Posted - 2006.01.29 21:57:00 - [29] Quote: 110% of the missiles fired should not hit their target!! So missles should do no damage what so ever? Look missles work differently then guns read my post. Here these will help
High Sierra	Posted - 2006.01.29 22:06:00 - [30] and of course flares would work really well in a vacuum wouldnt they cos theres sooo much oxygen there to burn. use defenders and EW. problem solved.

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