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Factional Warfare : Doomed from the beginning? Am I wasting my time?

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Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution 65	Posted - 2011.11.02 22:38:00 - [31] - Quote ^^ This. ARETR has lost a significant amount of dedicated pilots, either to 0.0 or totally from Eve. So congratulations CCP. You managed to get some people out of low sec into 0.0 at the cost of losing some subs. When people who did FW for as long as some of these players did leave, it is time to sit up and take notice and ask why... Just to give people a help along - chasing mission SB that 9/10 you can't catch on a gate was the cloak and warp IS NOT FUN... Same as sitting on a button for 30 minutes IS NOT FUN. Fix Faction Warfare CCP!!!
Cearain The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION 70	Posted - 2011.11.03 02:52:00 - [32] - Quote Hans Im sure ccp is aware that FW has the potential to double their subscription numbers - if it is done right. It can offer small scale pvp in a way that currently does not exist in new eden. In a way that is sorely lacking. However fixing it is not as easy as tweaking some numbers in the database - like fixing hybrids. This one requires thought. Yes there have been a few (very few) fixes all agree would improve fw. These are typically of 2 varieties. Those that aim to make fw more enjoyable and those that just make it so you get more gains for doing faction war even if it is not in itself more enjoyable. Examples of the first would include making it so plexes don't spawn only after downtime and fixing various bugs. Examples of the second would be the cries to make occupancy "mean something" and to pay pilots for doing plexes etc. But none of the changes that players have all agreed on will really make FW what it should be. These fixes might increase the number of people who do plexing from 20 people to 80 people. But I'm sure CCP is aiming higher hopefully at least 100 xs higher. This is something that they need to think through. They probably should have a few plan bs and even plan cs if things don't go as expected. (you can't plan everything in a player driven sandbox game.) Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 430	Posted - 2011.11.03 03:24:00 - [33] - Quote Cearain wrote: But none of the changes that players have all agreed on will really make FW what it should be. These fixes might increase the number of people who do plexing from 20 people to 80 people. But I'm sure CCP is aiming higher hopefully at least 100 xs higher. This is something that they need to think through. They probably should have a few plan bs and even plan cs if things don't go as expected. (you can't plan everything in a player driven sandbox game.) I totally agree. I'm even fine with waiting till summer expansion (not like I have a choice) if it means a more fully fledged, well thought out expansion of the feature. At this point, my frustration isn't really about how far along developers are in the process, its about how they communicate about their progress. Hence, my seperation of this thread from the actual discussion about Faction Warfare fixes. If Faction Warfare fixes are all far too reaching to be implemented in time for Winter Expansion, than all they have to do is say so. With zero clue as to if and any fixes are even being considered, the conversation is going to keep going in circles over and over again, instead of focusing the feedback on the features they actually can implement. That was my whole point of starting that thread. As I've stated before, Soundwave's single idea, which was unrelated to any of the other ideas brought forth by the community, could have been dropped into the thread without even reading what is there. The lack of response to the most common ideas being floated combined with the single unrelated "fix", indicates that CCP really has nothing concrete in mind for this current expansion. Thats fine if thats the case, I understand there is a backlog of other stuff to work on. My objection is that they stated that FW would be a part of the expansion, than fell silent like they have for years now. Please CCP, just tell us the truth. Either you're working on fixes and listening to feedback, and just can't reveal details yet, or you've decided to postpone FW till next expansion. Or, you've decided to never revist FW. Regardless of which of the three it is, we deserve to know if we are being taken seriously, or if our efforts are better placed elsewhere.
Cearain The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION 70	Posted - 2011.11.03 03:43:00 - [34] - Quote Well before "ccp" can communicate what "they" are thinking they probably have to discuss the matter. And its quite possible that they are in just as much disagreement about the matter as the players are. I'm not sure of that though. Someone from ccp said something along the lines of the plans had to harden up or something. But maybe those plans are on the chopping block. But if they give us a post along the lines of "well we had an idea but now we are not so sure" I don't think that will solve more problems than it will cause. But i don't know. I really don't think they are leading us on. Anyone can see the potential this game could have to explode subscription numbers if they can implement a decent small scale pvp mechanic for more casual players. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution 70	Posted - 2011.11.03 05:19:00 - [35] - Quote Cearain - Soundwave said that the deadline for features in the winter expansion was coming due and he was trying to work out what could be put into this expansion. Fix Faction Warfare CCP!!!
Cpt Fina The Tuskers 70	Posted - 2011.11.03 05:26:00 - [36] - Quote Har Harrison wrote: So you are against CCP creating alliances as well, since they were added to the game by CCP? Or maybe missions. Or incursions??? CCP provide the players with TOOLS (of which, FW is one of them, albeit a little bit broken) to make our content with... Alliances seem to add content to the player driven universe in the sense as they allow player interaction on a deeper level. And yes, missions and incusrions (PvE in general) is NOT Eve's forte and NOT something that makes this game the unique gem in the mmo jungle that it is. So yes, I would not shed a tear if CCP had a long term goal of phasing out alot of the PvE content (missions, incursions and factional warfare in the sense that it is artificiall to a high degree) and replacing it with meaningful PvP content.
Ris Dnalor Fleet of Doom Ushra'Khan 9	Posted - 2011.11.03 06:59:00 - [37] - Quote http://massively.joystiq.com/2009/12/06/eve-evolved-the-faction-warfare-mission-debacle/ here's a good article about the history of FW. More directly to the OP's point, here's a quote from Noah where he was supporting the idea of FW ( at least at some point ) Quote: WarCry: Is the graphics upgrade still on schedule for Revelations Chapter 2 and what's a conservative estimate of when that will be reaching the players? Noah Ward: The graphics upgrade was slated for Chapter 3. Factional Warfare was supposed to be the big feature of Chapter 2 but unfortunately it's being pushed back to Chapter 3 to make way for the underlying improvements that lay the groundwork for Factional Warfare. I was really disappointed to hear FW was getting pushed back because I feel it's going to be a really fun addition for the casual gamer. Constellation Sovereignty, Medals and Rewards, War Victory Conditions and Starbase Improvements are all features that are part of Factional Warfare but will be coming in Chapter 2. Chapter 2 is slated for some time around June with Chapter 3 coming in before the end of the year. (Subject to change of course) source
praznimrak Level Up 0	Posted - 2011.11.03 09:15:00 - [38] - Quote After all this years...... FW SUCKS QUIT IT My youtube chanell: http://www.youtube.com/user/EveOnlineGameplay
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront 113	Posted - 2011.11.03 11:08:00 - [39] - Quote Yeah, the initial vision that was presented while FW was still in the planning stages was pure :awesome: .. unfortunately it ran into the exact same problem that the sovereignty overhaul did .. lack of funds/manpower/bwaiiinz!. So they started crossing "expensive" items of the list which led to many "inexpensive" things being axed as they depended on them and so on, result was broken FW and a null that is in many ways even worse than what came before. Is it any wonder that it is on the eternal to-do list when the ball was whittled down to the size of a pea before being dropped .. they can't even find the blasted thing any more!
Cearain The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION 71	Posted - 2011.11.03 12:30:00 - [40] - Quote Har Harrison wrote: Cearain - Soundwave said that the deadline for features in the winter expansion was coming due and he was trying to work out what could be put into this expansion. I'm pretty sure when they "work out" what faction war changes will happen when they will let us know. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 435	Posted - 2011.11.03 14:02:00 - [41] - Quote Cearain wrote: Har Harrison wrote: Cearain - Soundwave said that the deadline for features in the winter expansion was coming due and he was trying to work out what could be put into this expansion. I'm pretty sure when they "work out" what faction war changes will happen when they will let us know. I certainly hope so, and I'm looking forward to it if they do!
Wendi Wu ZERO HEAVY INDUSTRIES 3	Posted - 2011.11.03 14:14:00 - [42] - Quote I have to admit, I've been wondering the same things as Hans. The silence from CCP is a bad sign. It's frustrating because so many people in FW want nothing more than to help. When Soundwave dropped his one-line comment about removing NPCs, Shalee did a series of opinion polls where she asked practically everyone in the militias what they thought of it: http://sovereigntywars.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/gallente-opinion-poll-removing-faction-npcs-in-enemy-highsec-2/ http://sovereigntywars.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/amarr-opinion-poll-removing-faction-npcs-in-enemy-highsec/ http://sovereigntywars.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/caldari-opinion-poll-removing-faction-npcs-in-enemy-highsec/ http://sovereigntywars.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/minmatar-opinion-poll-removing-faction-npcs-in-enemy-highsec/ There have been literally hundreds of posts from active FW players about how to improve FW. There's a fair amount of agreement among them too. Hans, Shalee, and a bunch of others are doing a huge amount of work on collecting feedback and presenting it so as to make it as easy as possible to pick out the important bits. And CCP's response to all of this has been . . . nothing. Do they think they can't do the changes? Do they not want to do the changes? Is it that they don't agree on what changes should be made? Are they actually planning some changes but aren't telling us? Have they decided that it's not worth the trouble and they're going to give up on it? Are they even reading these threads? We don't know.
Garbad theWeak 27	Posted - 2011.11.03 14:20:00 - [43] - Quote I want to hear a CCP response on this.
Ciar Meara Virtus Vindice 209	Posted - 2011.11.03 14:21:00 - [44] - Quote Before Faction Warfare existed there was a thriving war going on between Minmatar and Amarr players. Oracle, minmatar liberation front, amarr will eat itself, eventually Ushrakhan fought PIE, imperial dreams (CVA), backed up by other fighters like blacksheep squadron and Aegis Militia etc. There where internal politics, betrayals, dislikes, fall-outs and almost all out wars inside factions. The official wars fought between Amarr and Minmatar capsuleers was very high up to 28 or more for PIE alone. There was drama and the storyline progressed because of the players and their relationships toward eachother. This in cooperation with live events where CCP showed that it was interested in the dynamic that these players where developing made these wars the most interesting time I had in EVE. Within that conflict other entities fought alongside one or more factions like the Jericho Faction or certain pirates. It had a thriving RP and it got people to experience action in empire in wars that raged from Pator to Hek and Amarr prime itself. FW meddled with that conflict, it did so with the best intentions it wanted to provide a medium in which to poor all those actions could be poored and developed into something bigger. In doing so it also gave us a straightjacket. What is worse is they made something and then failed to provide the tools for the players so they could develop a framework. They gave us a pro-forma framework which received little or no development after. What the FW rethink should be doing is thinking on how to give more freedom and tools to the players. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Jenshae Chiroptera 95	Posted - 2011.11.03 15:04:00 - [45] - Quote "Greying" out the FW button would be an eloquent answer. CSM do you think? No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 444	Posted - 2011.11.04 17:32:00 - [46] - Quote I've written a letter to the CSM, providing them with links to these threads, and the Sov Wars blog where they can read up on the state of activities within the Faction Warfare scene. I encourage all of you to write them as well, the more voices they hear asking for a response on FW, the better. They may not see it as a signficant development issue, if no one is speaking up and asking for some love. Thanks for everyone's ongoing support! The FW has some of the classiest pilots around, I appreciate those on both sides of the war that have been advocates for improving the scene.
Damassys Kadesh Eternal Damnation of the Woken Mind 21	Posted - 2011.11.21 19:45:00 - [47] - Quote Hans is a f@cking hero for the time and effort he's put into bringing FW discussion to the forums. I have a hell of a time keeping up with forums, and maybe there has been an update that I've missed (please link here if so), but as far as I know, this is the most CCP has given us: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=338792#post338792 I don't need to repeat Hans, he's said it very well and clearly. I'm just adding my voice to the plea for communication from CCP. When the CEO says it needs fixing, your plums get a serious bluish hue while you wait... and wait.... and wait....... (I HOPE I'm just not up to date on this )
Ghoest 12	Posted - 2011.11.21 20:20:00 - [48] - Quote Until CCP returns the ability to publicly display your factional standing - factional warfare will remain a joke. Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Elanor Vega Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 54	Posted - 2011.11.21 20:22:00 - [49] - Quote Quote: Factional Warfare : Doomed from the beginning? Am I wasting my time? All FW players and all Miners are wasting their time in EVE... CCP don't give a damn about us!!!
Karl Planck Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos 55	Posted - 2011.11.21 20:58:00 - [50] - Quote Damassys Kadesh wrote: Hans is a f@cking hero for the time and effort he's put into bringing FW discussion to the forums. I have a hell of a time keeping up with forums, and maybe there has been an update that I've missed (please link here if so), but as far as I know, this is the most CCP has given us: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=338792#post338792 I don't need to repeat Hans, he's said it very well and clearly. I'm just adding my voice to the plea for communication from CCP. When the CEO says it needs fixing, your plums get a serious bluish hue while you wait... and wait.... and wait....... (I HOPE I'm just not up to date on this ) Your a little out of date, the last update (which i can't be arsed to quote) said that ONE thing will be getting a change in FW, but that change will be small and the details of which have yet to be revealed. Furthermore, they are discussing the future of FW at the December CSM summit, as many of the suggestions for fw fixes would require more time than dev's have had. Either way, the dessy buff will add some flavor to fw this winter.
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 517	Posted - 2011.11.21 21:25:00 - [51] - Quote Damassys Kadesh wrote: plums Hahaha. Nice.
Trainwreck McGee Ghost Ship Inc. 134	Posted - 2011.11.21 21:27:00 - [52] - Quote he's taking a stroll CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool
Manssell OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate 11	Posted - 2011.11.22 21:01:00 - [53] - Quote Just a bump, cause I'd say the man deserves an answer.
uredo ZERO HEAVY INDUSTRIES 1	Posted - 2011.11.22 21:37:00 - [54] - Quote And so the deadline for the expansion has come and gone, and Factional Warfare remains ignored. I am truly baffled how CCP can do such a great job at reconnecting with its audience, but at the same time ignore the repeated pleas from all FWers for something! There is even pretty good agreement on a core set of easy-to-fix features.... All we have had is a commitment for one (yes, just one!) FW feature from a CCP dev, and even that has now missed the shipment. Given that Faction Warfare was one of the CEO's promises for this expansion, I am very disappointed indeed.
Mekhana Spiritus Draconis 321	Posted - 2011.11.22 21:49:00 - [55] - Quote I'll be running for Governor by the time CCP fixes FW.
Apollo Gabriel Mercatoris Etherium Cartel 282	Posted - 2011.11.23 01:49:00 - [56] - Quote After the winter expansion is released CCP will pay attention to FW again, don't worry, they'll devote 10x the Fanfest resources from last year! It really was embarrassing that 3 guys in Atlanta were able to pwn Iceland. Let Atlanta fix FW! Let us eat cake! -áI mean open containers in corp hangers please ... Let us stack all modules (eliminate repackaging), except damaged ones, give them a red hue/icon. Let us see damaged drones in our drone bay!
Crystal Liche ACME Mineral and Gas 29	Posted - 2011.11.23 01:57:00 - [57] - Quote I think people expect too much from FW. If you go in, X up and pew pew it works ok. When I read the threads on FW features most of what people were looking for was mission related. When a GM suggested that CONCORD allow WTs into high sec everyone choked. Thought it was a PvP system
Har Harrison Amarrian Retribution 75	Posted - 2011.11.23 02:25:00 - [58] - Quote Crystal Liche wrote: I think people expect too much from FW. If you go in, X up and pew pew it works ok. When I read the threads on FW features most of what people were looking for was mission related. When a GM suggested that CONCORD allow WTs into high sec everyone choked. Thought it was a PvP system I suggest you learn WTF you are talking about BEFORE you post... Concord currently lets us into enemy high sec - I can speed through gal/minnine high sec without getting concorded. It is the NAVY that chase me. See the difference. Evading the navy = legal. Evafing concord = exploit and bannable. The reason we choked is that it broke RP since the empires SHOULD defend themselves from enemy combatants and that it would make the trade hubs a permanent station camp which would hurt the newer players. Currently the you CAN camp them, but have to tank the navy and the capsuleers... Fix Faction Warfare CCP!!!
Apollo Gabriel Mercatoris Etherium Cartel 282	Posted - 2011.11.23 04:54:00 - [59] - Quote Har Harrison wrote: Crystal Liche wrote: I think people expect too much from FW. If you go in, X up and pew pew it works ok. When I read the threads on FW features most of what people were looking for was mission related. When a GM suggested that CONCORD allow WTs into high sec everyone choked. Thought it was a PvP system I suggest you learn WTF you are talking about BEFORE you post... Concord currently lets us into enemy high sec - I can speed through gal/minnine high sec without getting concorded. It is the NAVY that chase me. See the difference. Evading the navy = legal. Evafing concord = exploit and bannable. The reason we choked is that it broke RP since the empires SHOULD defend themselves from enemy combatants and that it would make the trade hubs a permanent station camp which would hurt the newer players. Currently the you CAN camp them, but have to tank the navy and the capsuleers... I agree with you here, the poster you quote clearly has no effing idea what s/he is talking about and hasn't read ANYTHING about FW Let us eat cake! -áI mean open containers in corp hangers please ... Let us stack all modules (eliminate repackaging), except damaged ones, give them a red hue/icon. Let us see damaged drones in our drone bay!
Hans Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous 530	Posted - 2011.11.23 16:29:00 - [60] - Quote Crystal Liche wrote: I think people expect too much from FW. If you go in, X up and pew pew it works ok. When I read the threads on FW features most of what people were looking for was mission related. When a GM suggested that CONCORD allow WTs into high sec everyone choked. Thought it was a PvP system Actually, if you go into FW and just X up, you probably won't even get to the pew part, unless you're comfortable soloing long enough to convince the established corps you're not a spai. With broken plexes, there is little incentive for new players to form up on their own in cheap stuff like people used to and seize the lower level plexes and make a difference. Now, general militia chat is basically the front doorstep in that house where they make soap in fight club. You gotta wait out there and be trolled long enough to show people you really want in. Sad, but true. Most of the fixes that people are asking for DO revolve around the missions because, well, missions and plexes ARE FW. Thats the mechanics we got. Static wardec, and some plexes and missions, both of which are broken severely. So naturally, plexes and missions are the first place to work on fixes. Fix them, and you give people their PvP grounds again (instead of gates and stations and belts where they get hotdropped by bored nullsec alliances and pirate blobs). Educate yourself - the reasons the missions are Pew Pew is because they show up on overview and beg the enemy to engage you there. Problem is, missions are easily farmable in bombers, so the "pew pew" you speak of boils down to interceptors chasing bombers, and blue balls all around. It wasn't a GM, it was Soundwave, who is lead developer for all of EvE Online. The FW community is based around PvP, but the mechanics CCP developed and never iterated upon, sadly do little to support this.

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