| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
61
   |
Posted - 2013.10.18 09:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Neave LaFontaine wrote:Anyone else notice the high level of goon tears in this thread?
You know, it never ceases to amaze me that with GSF up over 10,000 people, to say nothing of the rest of the CFC, people see a half-dozen goons pointing out blatantly obvious flaws in mechanics (and/or trolling the people who inevitably crop up to defend anything purely because the goons say it's not a good idea) and decide that's a 'high level of goon tears'.
Really? One of the largest, most active groups in the game, with a history of delving into the mechanics of the game looking for the loopholes and problems CCP refuses to see until GSF goes ahead and rubs someone's nose in it, has multiple people posting in a thread about mechanics - the very same people who post on all of these mechanics threads, no less - and you think that's somehow significant? |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
61
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 10:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Turfrider wrote:This is awesome. Good job CCP. About time.
All the people crying about this calling it "horribly unbalanced" lol @ you. Moons are inheriently horribly unbalanced, worried about your SRP? I'm just happy more of you will be forced into the belts to earn a crust so I can kill you :)
Ill be putting 100's of these things up as soon as physically possible, good game.
So you'll be spending billions on things that will just get blown up? If that's how PL wants to waste their money, man, go for it. I think we all know whose moons you'll be looking at. Who knows, maybe we'll get bounties for blowing them up. |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
61
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 10:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Let me put this bluntly, in terms of Sov war the CFC is the elite of Eve.
Aww... Don't say that, you'll upset N3 and PL.
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Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
61
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 10:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:To the people complaining this won't create conflict, the siphons will never generate conflict as long as the POS owner can use the guns to destroy them. APIs and notifications wouldn't increase conflict, only make it easier for people who don't monitor their space to maximize their profit.
I don't think the issue is 'they are bad because they won't create conflict', so much as it is 'hey, CCP, you're claiming these will create conflict, and they blatantly won't.' Which is a subtle thing, but it's not the lack of content being the source of irritation, but the blatant failure of CCP to see the blindingly obvious way this plays out. |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zappity wrote:
Tell me, what would the public goon response be to a change that was good for smaller groups but bad for CFC?
Good question. Got an example of a change that a group of 50, 100, 500, or 1,000 can make use of that a group of 30,000 can't make use of more effectively?
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Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Helicity Boson wrote:ITT: Goons trying to prevent a tool being released in a form which will allow them to endlessly grief others. Others write it off as Goon tears in their ignorance.
This is a peculiar thread indeed.
Looks pretty normal to me. |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Johnny Marzetti wrote:Wow, it's like you're Alan Greenspan! And by that I mean, "the guy who got everything totally wrong in the worst way imaginable."
...
Dammit, now I need to clean up the tea all over my desk. |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Zakhin Desver wrote:Trying to get enough nerfs to the module so you don't lose your moongoo superiority? Oh you....
Wastage must exists, destroying resources from the game is a good sink for money printers. Without waste factor, only small alliances with not enough numbers will be harmed. This expansion is supposed to empower the weak, not to settle the superiority of the powerful.
I see you missed the part where waste increases the longer you wait to empty it... so if all you want to do is grief, just leave it for the pos owner to empty daily. If you're a little guy who's active and looking to make bank off of this, you empty your siphons as often as you can.
About the only change I'd make is explicitly saying that the amount put back into the silos when the siphon gets destroyed is subject to the same scaling waste issue that emptying the siphon is. That way you reward the more alert and active defenders, too. |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Arrendis wrote:Zappity wrote:
Tell me, what would the public goon response be to a change that was good for smaller groups but bad for CFC?
Good question. Got an example of a change that a group of 50, 100, 500, or 1,000 can make use of that a group of 30,000 can't make use of more effectively? There's really nothing that accomplishes this except giving ships in a fleet stacking penalties to EHP and damage, which would be completely insane and dumb.
Exactly. Larger, more organized groups will always enjoy significant advantages purely because they have more human resources to devote to solving any problem. If CCP were to put in something like fleet stacking penalties (for example), we'd just form up a larger number of smaller fleets, making us of having things like shared communications and control infrastructure outside of the actual game, having a larger number of FCs between all of the CFC member alliances, etc etc. It might not be easy, but a workaround would be found. |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zakhin Desver wrote:Arrendis wrote:Zappity wrote:
Tell me, what would the public goon response be to a change that was good for smaller groups but bad for CFC?
Good question. Got an example of a change that a group of 50, 100, 500, or 1,000 can make use of that a group of 30,000 can't make use of more effectively? There's a little misunderstanding here. Maybe goons (or any other big alliance) can spam these syphons on posses of little alliances and all that. But the real little group of players usually don't own a territory, much less a POS (unless it is in wormhole space) Whatever the case, patrolling a single POS or one single system is much easier than doing the same all over a nullsec region. Can they lose moon materials or polymers like the big alliances? Yes and no. Yes, because there will be times when they are not watching (ie, at work, sleeping...), but it will be much easier for them to watch their only POS Small alliances count as medium size group of players.
Except now your small group is stuck watching their POS. It's like living in a wormhole, except instead of 'make sure you always leave a scanner at home', you wind up with 'make sure you always leave a monitor on the POS. Logged in.'
Want to go on a roam? Great, just don't be gone too long, you might be losing money. Or maybe Bob can't go. Or maybe Bob just has to keep an alt on a second account logged in to watch the one POS. Let's assume that - let's assume you're looking at 1 pilot out of 50* having to be watching the POS at any time, on an alt. Assume 50% attention for the sake of relatively rapid detection, and because it makes the numbers nice and neat, and it's just easier to work with nice, neat numbers.
You are now devoting 1% of your corp's efforts to watching a single POS.
Note: Not 1% of your corp's gameplay, because someone has to be watching this POS all the time. 1% of your players' lives, taken in aggregate. Now, assuming like most people our hypothetical players get (low-balling) 6 hrs sleep, devote half an hour to getting ready for work, half an hour for dinner, and have a 30-minute commute, and spend 8 hrs at work, that's 1% of your available 1/3 of your life. So 3%.
Do you think a small group absorbs that more easily than the CFC absorbs some monetary losses? Who do you think has an easier time swinging into a system in a scanner-fit covops and dropping combat probes to look for these siphons? (D-scan? Sure, if all the moons are within 15au of one another. Otherwise, screw it, decent skills and knowing what planets friendly towers are on lets me cover all of them in a fraction of the time.)
* - We're being generous here, because a lot of those solo towers run by small groups in low-sec aren't even that big. At 25 players, it's 2% of the corp's actual, RL lives (or 6% of their free time). At 10 players, it's 5% (15%). Are you the guy willing to give up almost 1/6 of your life to babysitting a POS? ONE POS? Is 1/6 of your life worth that little ISK? Is 1/33rd (3%) of your life so valueless to you?
I mean, sure, you're already working a second job playing EVE, but... |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
67
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Johny Tyler wrote:How are you planning to collect from these things? What ship has a 1200 m/3 cargo hold that you want to put within 50km of a POS?
A Probe (T1 exploration frig) can get a 1200m3 cargo hold. With the warp speed mechanics, it's the perfect ship for zipping around low-sec emptying these things. Especially since you can just dock up after each one and dump the goo to your hauler-alt in his blockade runner.
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Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
67
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zakhin Desver wrote:
BTW, pretending that leaving 1 guy watching your poses while the rest are in PVP is too much for you, must be a joke. Are you telling me you have hundreds of players but leaving a few watching your poses is too much
I knew it, nullsec alliances are kids even compared with highsec dwellers. Grow a pair.
So, wait, which is it? Is this easier for the little guy because he only has one tower to watch, or is it easier for the massive coalitions because we can marshal more manpower and distribute work over a wider base?
Because, you know, you've now argued for both of those. |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
67
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Falkor1984 wrote:It seems you dont like Goons, which is something one might agree to  . But this thing is not gonna hurt Goons or their friends: they are able to provide 24/7 checks on their towers. The problem lies with the posses of the smaller entities: they cannot provide round the clock coverage and will be subject to siphoning by multiple siphons for extended periods. So basically if you support this idea, you are actually supporting Goons and other bigass powerblocks.
It's also going to drive up the prices - especially short-term speculation when these things first hit.
This is gonna make bank for the CFC. |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
67
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
TimNeilson wrote:I'm also honestly amazed that more people aren't freaking out about this, as if you can't trust the data you're getting from the api you might as well not even have the api in the first place
Personally, I'd have thought 'hey, let's make the API lie to you' being a bad idea would be amazingly self-evident, given CCP just dealt with another little shi*tstorm over transparency and the information affecting the in-game value of resources being untrustworthy.
If you want to make the API give incorrect projections of future production, awesome. Having it say 'Boss, we should have 50,000 units of X in 24 days' is a plus. Having it say that and having those projections wrong because your POS can't tell it's being siphoned is actually pretty freaking cool. If anything, that would let you go 'hey, we were projected to have X, why do we have 60% of X?' and actually be a damned handy little API move that you'd probably see people be happy about.
But telling the players 'this is a trustworthy resource for data on what you already have. We are making it untrustworthy' is never, never cool.
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Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
68
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Falkor1984 wrote:But seriously, you are 100% right. Why have an API that provides data if the data is known to be inaccurate on purpose.
::CCP::
In other news, I just got my boxed set. Gonna give Danger Game a try tonight. If I find any horribly broken rules that require you to keep playing the game 23.5/7 just to keep from losing, I'll let folks know.
(Also: the 'do not just throw electronics in the trash' notice w/the rifter is in like... 29 different languages. I am halfway convinced my nerd friends are going to think that's the coolest thing in the box.) |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
68
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zakhin Desver wrote:Did i hear a Goon threatening to leave the game? Did I?
Goons quite EVE all the time, man...
... and then resub for the next sov war. |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
69
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:or the Mk 1 Eyeball
Oh my god...
... NOW WE KNOW WHAT THE MONACLE IS FOR! I bet it'll make these things show up on the in-space system scanner like anomalies do! |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
69
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:
Yeah, thanks for restating exactly what I said in the original post you quoted and then calling me bad. What an effective tactic; I'm sure it will rapidly convince the entire population of EVEO that I'm bad at EVE.
But isn't that our motto in the first place? "The CFC: We're Bad at EVE." |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
72
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 03:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Southern Kros wrote: lemmings are not the brightest lamp in the street
And yet, clearly lemmings are smarter than the people who talk about them like they're stupid little creatures. You do know that whole 'lemmings running off of a cliff to drown' thing was staged, right? That the Disney producers had the scene filmed from below the edge of the cliff because the lemmings wouldn't suicide, so they were throwing them over the cliff?
Honestly, people getting basic facts wrong while trying to insult someone's intelligence... it's like the internet is full of morons!
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Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 04:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Arrendis wrote:it's like the internet is full of morons!
It, uh, is.
Don't you go spoiling my idealistic visions of a vast world-spanning network where intelligent people can communicate in erudite, carefully-written exchanges of well-thought-out ideas, leading to productive conversations that actually advance mutual understa-...
... ok, I can't even finish that thought without cracking up. I'm'a go back to reading Poptart's 'Let's All Play Battletech and Re-Write the History of the Inner Sphere' LP. |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 04:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'm back now. Only 3 new posts. |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 04:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Arrendis wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Arrendis wrote:it's like the internet is full of morons!
It, uh, is. Don't you go spoiling my idealistic visions of a vast world-spanning network where intelligent people can communicate in erudite, carefully-written exchanges of well-thought-out ideas, leading to productive conversations that actually advance mutual understa-... ... ok, I can't even finish that thought without cracking up. I'm'a go back to reading Poptart's 'Let's All Play Battletech and Re-Write the History of the Inner Sphere' LP. our secret goonfleetdotcom forums screw around anywhere important and deadtear will show you out
Nah, the LP's over on SA, in predictably enough, the LP forum. |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal
Tactical Narcotics Team
74
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:Fact is the API tool is useful for helping people do stuff out of game with the tools designed by players. These tools should NOT give an in game advantage, which is what some player designed 'syphon alert' system would do if POS syphoning appeared via the API.
And the fact is that the API's purpose is to give accurate, useful information. If it shouldn't be giving certain information, the correct response is to not give out that information, not to give out inaccurate information. If you're giving players a tool and saying 'you can trust this', and then you make it lie, you're only demonstrating that your players can trust neither your tool, nor you. |
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