|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1355
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 16:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:GÇóSiphon units also have a waste factor (assumed to be lost in transit). This wastes (destroys) a portion of what is stolen. The waste factor for the Small Mobile Siphon Unit is 20%.
any chance we can get a skill for siphon unit efficiancy... what it would do is reduce the waste factor by 3% per level. so that way at level V the waste would only be 5%.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1355
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:20m3 does seem tiny compared to how big the actual unit will be when deployed... how can you make something shrink that much into a cargo-bay ... surely it should be more cargo-ship sized like 1200m3 if it is going too be able to store that much surely it should have to be that size to begin with .. especially with cov-op frigs or inties they could easily exploit these things going from POS to POS without be catch-able it seems a little unbalanced to me.
ask dr who is size matters There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1355
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Alright:
this is a MASSIVE pain in the arse for corporations that do not span multiple timezones. everyone who is in a non-english speaking corporation has some serious organisation to do to get towers watched. Not cool. This is manageable for us (100% german corp) since we also speak english and can easily coordinate with other english speaking groups. The russians that often don't really speak english have a problem. a big one.
instead of introducing some interesting timer mechanic that could actually lead to some fights you made something that is going to be a massive pain in the arse for people in leadership positions. typical :CCP:
i was excited for this, mainly because i really hoped that it could lead to some interesting small scale pvp actions. but with the current implementation there is absolutely NO reason to interact with these things with anything that is not a T2 industrial with a covert ops cloak or a POS gun.
hmmm in a MMO that is live 23/7 heaven forbit you might have to make friends with those darn americans and Australians... There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1355
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Legion wrote:Once this is out we will be keeping an eye on how players use it, both via feedback here and metrics that we gather. We can then rebalance it accordingly to make sure it is not completely unbalanced or if it is used as a pure griefing tool for example. There are a lot of values which we can tweak relatively easily as required.
this one mod is the single greatest anti-blue donut mechanic i have ever seen.
the fact that the large pos alliances are extreamly upset that they will actually have to monitor thier isk faucet makes me very happy. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1355
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:MeBiatch wrote:this one mod is the single greatest anti-blue donut mechanic i have ever seen.
the fact that the large pos alliances are extreamly upset that they will actually have to monitor thier isk faucet makes me very happy. Sadly, we're also the ones that will benefit the most on the 'free isk' faucet of the increased cost of goo. And the reactions that will go up in price too. You'll just get higher t2 costs down the road. So sure, if you want to pay more for t2 stuff with no benefit, it's awesome for you.
how so?
i intend of setting up shop in a region near you... i will directly bene from increased moon min value because i will be selling your moon mins.
face it... the days of owning 9 regions are comming to an end... no longer will greater number eq. greater isk income without activly defending all your space. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1360
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
IrJosy wrote: It's the opposite actually.
Jabber leak:
(11:16:23 AM) aryth: this isn't going to crush us. it will crush everyone who doesn't rent (11:16:31 AM) aryth: which means everyone will rent. which means everyone will donut up (11:16:34 AM) aryth: which kills eve
This mechanic is the single greatest pro-blue donut mechanic.
not sure why this will increase renters?
will you give a discount to renters who activly monitor your poses in a constilation?
like defend out poses from shyphon and you get to rent for 50% discount? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1360
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Gilbaron wrote:Alright:
this is a MASSIVE pain in the arse for corporations that do not span multiple timezones. everyone who is in a non-english speaking corporation has some serious organisation to do to get towers watched. Not cool. This is manageable for us (100% german corp) since we also speak english and can easily coordinate with other english speaking groups. The russians that often don't really speak english have a problem. a big one.
instead of introducing some interesting timer mechanic that could actually lead to some fights you made something that is going to be a massive pain in the arse for people in leadership positions. typical :CCP:
i was excited for this, mainly because i really hoped that it could lead to some interesting small scale pvp actions. but with the current implementation there is absolutely NO reason to interact with these things with anything that is not a T2 industrial with a covert ops cloak or a POS gun.
hmmm in a MMO that is live 23/7 heaven forbit you might have to make friends with those darn americans and Australians... We did, not that much of a problem. but our friends are going to hate having to mini structure grind for us because they can't man our POS guns without having alts in our corp.
well if its 50k ehp that what like 5 nadoes roaming around? its not a problem if you actively monitor all your space... its just entities like you and goons happen to own huge swaths of space... and there is where the annoyance comes from. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1360
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:Funny how certain entities are upset they will have to watch their POS, where they will actually have to worry about their profits now. I for one think it's a pleasant idea. Will be fun to deploy them just to mess with people. Cloaky ships, small m3... nice. Now it's the small corps chance to grief the larger entities in game. This says everything I was going to.
10 bucks says that now afk cloakers are going to put a real dent in cfc income it will be nerfed in less then 6 months. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1360
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
IrJosy wrote:If goons siphon all of your moon income. How do you pay for your alliance? With renters!
well yes it seems this will shift the paragim from passive income to active... which i like... more targets is a good thing...
like 2006 all over again before jump frighters. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1360
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vatek wrote: Renters will pay us x amount of isk per month to mine specific R64 moons in their rented space, they are then responsible for dealing with siphons on their towers. If they end up losing money because their moons are being siphoned heavily, that's their problem.
so you are saying that 0.0 will have to be populated to be profitable? and this is somehow a bad thing?
i think its great...
you guys can be like the mob providing protection against actual pos attacks for a montly fee.
its a win win for everyone involved...
space gets filled people make isk and i get to kill people ratting.
dont see the problem really. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1360
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:MeBiatch wrote:IrJosy wrote:If goons siphon all of your moon income. How do you pay for your alliance? With renters! well yes it seems this will shift the paragim from passive income to active... which i like... more targets is a good thing... like 2006 all over again before jump frighters. renters are way more passive than moons
i have shot poses and shot renters...
renters are more active and provide good tears in local. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1361
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
June Ting wrote:MeBiatch wrote:IrJosy wrote:If goons siphon all of your moon income. How do you pay for your alliance? With renters! well yes it seems this will shift the paragim from passive income to active... which i like... more targets is a good thing... like 2006 all over again before jump frighters. I question whether this meaningfully improves target selection. Said renters will just blap the siphons using POS guns, and since those alts won't actually be in PVP ships but will just be pos gunning in noobships directly from inside their forcefields... This certainly improves the harassment potential of small gangs, for sure. But it doesn't directly increase the likelihood of small fleet combat since almost nobody will bring an actual fleet of pvp ships to contest an objective of that type.
they should fix that... you should not be able to man a pos gun inside of the shield. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1361
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:MeBiatch wrote:IrJosy wrote:If goons siphon all of your moon income. How do you pay for your alliance? With renters! well yes it seems this will shift the paragim from passive income to active... which i like... more targets is a good thing... like 2006 all over again before jump frighters. No, it's a shift from income based on PvP to income based on grinding and wasting time.
i see it as as a shift to more pvp... for small gangs and roaming gangs...
unless you see shooting renters as grinding? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1364
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:MeBiatch wrote:i see it as as a shift to more pvp... for small gangs and roaming gangs...
unless you see shooting renters as grinding? ...explain which part of the process is meaningful PvP? POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off. POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off. POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off. POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off. POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off. POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off. POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off. POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off. Cloaky hauler enters system, drops siphon, cloaks. POS alt logs in, sees siphon, blaps it with POS guns, logs off. POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off. POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off. POS alt logs in, sees nothing, logs off. you forgot POS alt flys to siphon, picks up stuff and flys back to POS he at least has to leave the POS shields, one could call this a PVP opportunity
how many poses do you have 100's? you are litterally going to spend every day doing this?
you will burn out pretty darn fast... why not do what goons are going to do and shift the defence to local renters?
seems much more managable...
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1366
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
IrJosy wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Vatek wrote: Renters will pay us x amount of isk per month to mine specific R64 moons in their rented space, they are then responsible for dealing with siphons on their towers. If they end up losing money because their moons are being siphoned heavily, that's their problem.
so you are saying that 0.0 will have to be populated to be profitable? and this is somehow a bad thing? i think its great... you guys can be like the mob providing protection against actual pos attacks for a montly fee. its a win win for everyone involved... space gets filled people make isk and i get to kill people ratting. dont see the problem really. How many New York Times articles have brought new players to the game with the headline: "Eve Online: An online spaceship game where you pay space protection money to live in a world completely devoid of conflict" ?
how will this be devoid of conflict? from my perspective it will increase the conflics. i wonder what would happen if you found out that one of your allies are the ones who are using thier alts to steel your moon mins... that could lead to some epic drama and that is where conflict drivers come from... human interaction.
granted that sov needs to be reworked much like they did with FW...
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1366
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:MeBiatch wrote: how many poses do you have 100's? you are litterally going to spend every day doing this?
you will burn out pretty darn fast... why not do what goons are going to do and shift the defence to local renters?
seems much more managable...
still not any sort of pvp, it's "notice structure, pop structure"
if you have renters in each contilation they will spend the majority of said time you know doing what null bears do and that is rat.
more people = more targets = more regular pvp...
though our definition of pvp is different does pvp to you means only giant sov blob grinds? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1367
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:MeBiatch wrote:if you have renters in each contilation they will spend the majority of said time you know doing what null bears do and that is rat.
more people = more targets = more regular pvp...
though our definition of pvp is different does pvp to you means only giant sov blob grinds? Yeah, shooting ratters, quality pvp there.
It is for me... kill enough of them and they start forming defense fleets. .. so there is potential for increased small scale pvp... plus I thought goons loved killing miners and frieghters snd such so is this not right up your alley?
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1368
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:- Big nullsec alliances crying...check - Small entities joying...check
Feature is good to go :D
as good as a litmus test for a feature if i ever heard of one. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1368
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
so anyone know if the market for pos guns has gone up?
perhaps its time for me to sell of those true sansha small beam platforms now...
correct me if i am wrong but most 0.0 poses are not death stars and the majority dont even have guns on them for pos mining...
they from what i remember use the pg/cpu for resists mods and moon mining equipment.
so this could create a rush to get guns on all the poses... There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1370
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 19:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
IrJosy wrote:CCP 'balancing' t2 ships with ccp rise.
While ccp whoever over here blaps the prices of t2 ships into the sky.
Must be an interesting office dynamic.
Dev A: I'm gonna make players want to use these ships! Dev B: No you aren't I'm gonna make them more expensive! Someone edit a derogatory term under his name again!
perhaps they will let us have back scanable mining sites which contain minerals gases and tech II minerals toboot... you know take away insentive to do passive income and provide an alternative for active income. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1376
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Saya Loyd wrote:if you done GÇïGÇïit, you lose ~ 10 accounts Goodbye eve ...
you are a pos manager right?
lemme guess you actually have one main and the rest are for pos management...
i am fine with you rage quiting.
chao There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1376
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kyt Thrace wrote:CCP really do not know what they could be unleashing.
The next Goon interdiction will be two-fold.
1st - Capture every Highsec POCO they can & set absurd taxes.
2nd - Drop siphons on every money moon they can find outside of CFC space.
You all talk about Goon tears in this thread, you just wait. If will be everyone else's tears that flow on the forums after this new release.
Then for sh!ts & giggles they will gank freighters & miners in higsec while burning Jita.
Most you you truly do not understand the ways that the Mittani & Goons have helped this game over the years.
This game would be more screwed up if it wasn't for their desire to take advantage of all the wholes that CCP introduces into the game with new releases. They even tell CCP that certain new additions are wrong & then when CCP does not listen, they set out to prove it.
I am not hear to kiss the Goons A$$'s, actually they can kiss mine just because I have such a sweet one.
so pretty much all goons will be drones... cuss defending all those high sec poco's while deploying the shyphons on every non cfc pos and eliminating all the hostile ones in goon space and defending agaisnt any groups who will try to take advantage of the ADHD by attacking your space will be a gigantic task...
honestly if you pull if off good for you... There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1380
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
this is what i can gather goons will do...
they have a huge stock pile of moon mins
they know that even if the collect 0 of the mins there is going to be an automatic 20% loss just off the bat.
so that means they are going to try and reduce the moon mins by 20% which means that demand will go up and they have the supply...
so that is the only way i can see goons making loads of isk from this There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1381
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:MeBiatch wrote:this is what i can gather goons will do...
they have a huge stock pile of moon mins
they know that even if the collect 0 of the mins there is going to be an automatic 20% loss just off the bat.
so that means they are going to try and reduce the moon mins by 20% which means that demand will go up and they have the supply...
so that is the only way i can see goons making loads of isk from this Thanks for restating everything Aryth and Mynnna are already telling everyone. If we mercilessly siphon every R64 moon in the universe that isn't ours, and we lose some R64s to enemy siphon, all while toying with the R64 markets since months ago, there's no way we aren't making trillions and annihilating affordable T2 prices.
well if they get rid of the 20% loss then that would put a dent into your nefarious plans.
moreover alchamy poses will increase invalue because you cant shyper them...
i plan on getting stupid rich with you guys... cheers! There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1383
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:Drone Assist and now Siphons. Why so serious Goonies? You used to be such fun loving bees. Now you're the guy in the suit and tie who drinks dark coffee every morning and complains about "kids these days". So sad
well not only did they kill bob they became bob...
they are even bragging how they will through thier renters under the bus with shyphon alts... There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1383
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
mynnna wrote: Contrary to all the whining from the poors about how moons are some hugely valuable and completely AFK wealth generator, they are in fact a wealth generator that would make a newbie in highsec laugh. A moon generates 100 units per hour. Right now, Dysprosium is the most valuable mineral in the game, at about 50k per unit. Go ahead, do the math on the hourly income, then calculate 60% of that. I'll wait. When you find that number, that's your take for dropping one.
Basically, I'm saying you ain't getting rich on these, kid.
yes one moon is worth not that much but many are... and from what i understand you guys have 100's of moon mining poses. so it does add up. though not as much as it used to be.
1. from what i understand you will tsf most of the moon poses to renters and leaving the defence in thier hands but increasing thier rent to offset. (a win win in your eyes)
2. I personally plan on syphoning your renters poses as i am making an assumption not all of them will protect thier poses. something goons said are fine with aslong as the bills are paid.
3. you guys stated that you will be setting up shyphon units in non cfc space to reduce output by 20%
4. you also said you have massive holding of said moon minerals and will be selling them for a healthy profit
5. i plan on slight margin trading that value from stolen pos mins thus taking advanatge of your plan and a healthy income.
6. personally i already have enough isk to sustain myself but will be more then happy to "chew the fat" and harass renters doing it. I mean renters can be babies and if they start loosing lots of isk they will want you guys to come and protect them... towhich you guys admit are reliant on renter income to continue your reinbursement policy. its going to be interesting how long the goon/renter dynamic lasts for before goons rage and purge said renters. Lather rinse repeat anyone?
7. if ccp just removed the 20% loss of units from the shyphon mechanic your plans would be eliminated. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1384
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:If you want siphons to promote PvP, and not terrible log-in-every-3-hours "gameplay", make them
a) invulnerable to POS guns (even manned) b) send a mail to POS owner when anchored.
That way you know when an enemy sets them up in your space, and you have to put together a response fleet to take them down or lose income. As an attacker you can use them to bait defenders into a fight they can't just avoid (or they lose moongoo). Nope If you want the Siphon Unit to generate Fights you need a timer mechanic, so that the game dictates the time when the package full of juicy stuff can be picked up a response fleet that just kills siphon units is nothing but smallscale structure grinding and incredibly boring. a much better implementation of the siphon idea would be something like this: 1: deploy siphon unit 2: invulnerable siphon unit steals from tower for X hours. X can be influenced by the POS owner 3: after X hours, the siphon unit turns into a package full of juicy stuff after that time 4.1: only tower owner shows up - kills the unit, loots the package and gets his stuff (minus the waste) back 4.2: only siphon unit owner shows up - he loots the package and successfully stole from the tower owner 4.3: both partys show up - fight is possible 4.4: all the above + eventual third partys - multitude of possible scenarios either way, the POS owner, the siphon owner and possible third parties all have strong incentives to actually show up.
man i hate timers... all they lead to is blob fights... please ccp do every thing you can to get rid of timers
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1384
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote: Ok I'll spell it out of the mentally deficient.
Renters cannot rebel. If they did, they would lose station access. Renter alliance executor corps are not some sort of democratic publord senate, they are a tyrannic council of main alliance alts. Renters have very few capital ships. They do not work with other renter corps. Even if there WAS a mass rebellion, after every death they would have to go to the nearest NPC station to reship. This is not very different from fighting a regular nullsec war, except the enemies are bad and tiny.
renters will not rebel they will simply leave the space and move back to high sec and farm lev iv. as the superintendent its the goons prerogative to keep thier renters happy. thier fun times depend on it. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1384
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aryth wrote: So you don't disagree with anything we have said. Great, now let me help you make the next leap of logic.
You could just skip all that and buy the r64s in Jita now and profit a lot more!
true. everything you said was logical. though if i did just buy all the r64 in jita, the isk would be going right into your hands... as i am sure the prices are still being manipulated due to your "stock pile"... i would rather take it from your hands by harrasing your renters. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1384
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:MeBiatch wrote:
man i hate timers... all they lead to is blob fights... please ccp do every thing you can to get rid of timers
yeah, because we are totally going to form 500 dudes to defend those few million ISK one could steal from our towers each day. we are not going to shrug of those millions, especially not in the long run BUT: we are also not be like :CTA: all the time. It's something that would generate buzz on corp or corp + close friends level
i just ment timers in general. not a fan of them. i understand they exist due to time zones but that does not mean i like them and would rather ccp figure out a way to remove them from the game... though i have no clue how they would achieve this so its a nessasary evil...
though i do not agree that a timer is needed for the shyphon unit. they are cheep enough that loosing one is a non factor...
the only problem with the shyphon unit is the direct loose of 20% of what it takes... There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1384
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
Deathwalley wrote:Okay, go on. But a lot of goons in this topic, many populist phrases like "We can double all the T2 ship prices", are telling that siphons can cause some problems for goons.
yes in the very very very long run... perhaps after two years.
but remember goons had a monoploy on high end minerals for a long long time... and they knew that thier tech would be nerfed so they more then likely bought up huge stockpiles of r64 that i would guess can last just alone for 1-2 years.
so yes in the long run this is bad for goons... but from thier stated plans... they will make enough money from this now to cover themselves for perhaps 2 more years on top of that... There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1384
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Deathwalley wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Deathwalley wrote:Okay, go on. But a lot of goons in this topic, many populist phrases like "We can double all the T2 ship prices", are telling that siphons can cause some problems for goons. yes in the very very very long run... perhaps after two years. but remember goons had a monoploy on high end minerals for a long long time... and they knew that thier tech would be nerfed so they more then likely bought up huge stockpiles of r64 that i would guess can last just alone for 1-2 years. so yes in the long run this is bad for goons... but from thier stated plans... they will make enough money from this now to cover themselves for perhaps 2 more years on top of that... But why in this topic, over 70% of all comments are by goons? And all of them, is about how bad siphons are, and how they will crush all of us.
they have a habbit of pointing out bad game mechanics by taking them to the extream. they are simply warning ccp what the problem is and how they are going to exploit it.
by removing the 20% base loss this will remove the bulk of the problem. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1384
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
Courthouse wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Laendra wrote: that we are going to use our vast infrastructure and playerbase to DECIMATE moon production everywhere in EVE....for everyone. Excellent, can't wait to see it happen..... and partake a bit myself. Content for everyone! If your idea of a good game is rampant price manipulation, barriers for entry for new pilots being much larger and the richest, most entrenched nullsec entities getting richer, then go hog wild. Personally I'd rather see bad ideas fixed before release, lower barriers for entry and some sort of existential threat to ourselves and some of the other nullsec old bloods. The sort of binary logic that anything someone in Goonswarm doesn't like must be good is problematic, not the least of reasons why being that we also pay subscriptions or PLEX for this game and it's in our vested interest that it not be overly boring or troublesome to play.
you know goons should stop putting thier alts in GSF... that way you can post with a npc alt so people will take you seriously...
so please dont post with your main. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1384
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:14:00 -
[34] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:I guess I'll just spam the hell out of them and see what happens/how much money I'll get/how much tears I'll get.
Happy times for everyone but the one who gets his stuff stolen.
so i heard TRI is reforming... you upset some of your brosefs are leaving? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1385
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
Klyith wrote:MeBiatch wrote: you know goons should stop putting thier alts in GSF... that way you can post with a npc alt so people will take you seriously...
so please dont post with your main.
We prefer to post with our real GS characters. We do it so that when we're right, we can be openly smug about how right we were. Especially when we post about things that are stupidly abusable, which we go on to abuse to the maximum extent possible, and everyone else complains grrr Goons. "We told you so" smug is the best smug.
touche. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1385
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:26:00 -
[36] - Quote
Aryth wrote:See, we are the Babe Ruth of EVE
interesting because everyone wishes you were lou gehrig... There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1385
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:27:00 -
[37] - Quote
Khoul Ay'd wrote:I can't believe I'm doing this but...I'm with the Goons on this! Sure, its easy for small time operators to go, "Ha-ha, Goons gonna lose iskies!" (In reality probably not) So, " Khoul," you say, " why so sad?" It's this post from CCP SoniClover that disturbs me. " ...One of which could go for alchemy..." This begs the question, what are the other other siphons going to target -- POS Fuels, invention components, blueprints, construction components, boosters? There are plenty of small time operators running a single to a few POSes. If the siphons I imagined come around the small time POS operator is history. I think we have our, 'first they came for the _____' moment. So there you have it, a carebear at heart has sided with the Goons. You have been warned.
i know i did it too... i feel like lady macbeth who cant get that damn spot out. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1385
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:MeBiatch wrote: by removing the 20% base loss this will remove the bulk of the problem.
That won't remove the problem. It may, MAY mitigate it somewhat, but even that isn't very likely. No, to fix this all you would need to do is limit the number of siphons per POS to just one. If that happens, it will revert back to its original purpose.. as a tool for the little guy to use against the big guy. Sure, the big guy can still use it, but the interaction would be a much more equal ground.
ok so then reduce to one (of each size) per pos and add my idea for the 3% reduction in the waste amount per level and we are ok? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1387
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 03:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Just had another brilliant idea you can do with these siphons... you can use an alt, and rob your corp/alliance with them while remaining in the corp/alliance. I am thinking you could achieve this by deploying them with covert ops, then returning with a blockade runner, and do drive by ( warp in cloaked to a bookmark, align to a point that will take you within distance of picking the product up from the siphon, uncloak quickly, pick the stuff up, warp off) pick ups while aligned to a warp out point. Will have to mess around with it on the Test server to see if this can be done.
does the full api show alts? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1387
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 03:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Siphon from CSAAs, steal titan bits.
and that son is where baby titans come from... There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
|
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1387
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 04:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
It just occurred to me but this shyphon unit in principle reminds me of people who ninja salvage wrecks in high sec. and the fact that people in null sec are somewhat upset about it just spews irony. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1394
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10%
b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
Let me know what you think.
sure thing that and trial characters cannot deploy the shiphon unit. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1394
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:48:00 -
[43] - Quote
XavierVE wrote:Quote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10% Terrible idea. The waste factor is a good way to grief an AFK Empire POS owner in deep space. Even if you can't come and empty the Siphon safely, you're still able to potentially destabilize the AFK Empire POS owners income just by wastage alone. 20% is a good mark to have it at. 25% would be even better.
read the thread... goons explained and so did i what waste is a bad bad idea...
though perhaps there could be tiers per sec status? or per type of moon...
so r8 waste like 30% r64 5%?
lower for 0.0 higher for high sec as high sec moons from what i understand are worth crap. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1394
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
ah crap i quoted instead of editing...
derp There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1394
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
Querns wrote:I am enjoying that the feedback adjustment for this feature actually removes utility from the theoretical small raider type and places the utility back into the large, entrenched power type without actually addressing the core problems with the device; namely, that two siphons completely shut down a moon harvester.
So, thanks CCP, for making it nicer for us and worse for everyone else.
a small corp with 30 people in it can shiphon up to 150 poses. now lets say all of the alt chars can also drop shiphon units so now that 150 is up to 450.
that is alot...
i see no problem with large groups who are more organised to take advantage of this mechanic. that is how eve works...
the main problem i could see is if trial accounts can drop these babies... that would just be terrible. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1394
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 13:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kat Ayclism wrote:These are obscenely overpowered.
No notifications? So now I have to literally ******* check every hour? Are you guys insane or just stupid?
The amount siphoned is ridiculous. And it doesn't scale if there's multiple?
You leave zero incentive to actually run a tower. The tedious task of having to manually check EVERY HOUR per tower is simply a horrid idea. Slap two of the things on? The tower owner is getting fuckall.
I'm all for the idea of cheap siphon units, but at the point where they completely negate the ability to run a tower without having to be a lifeless, sleepless tower checking zombie EVERY SINGLE HOUR? FFS, you can't seriously expect that- this is a game, not a job.
maybe you should stop owning 50% of the r64 towers which are scattered all around eve...
the idea is if you live in a system you will notice if a red or nuet comes into system and you can stop them from shiphon your stuff...
adapt or die. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1394
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:02:00 -
[47] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10%
b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
Let me know what you think. Both are bad ideas. The first make it even less worthwhile to siphon a low-value moon. You're not siphoning anything of real value and it takes a long time to recoup your 10 mill, but at least you're disrupting the owner's AFK mining operations. Halving the loss to 10% greatly diminishes the motivation for siphoning these typically less-watched moons. The second simply favours larger entities and alt creation.
so make it tired like i suggested... low end moons have a larger waste amount high end lower.
make it so trial accounts cannot drop shiphon units
and add a skill that allows an extra deployable item per level. 1 per level.
remember ccp said a small group should be able to distrupt another group... that does not mean shut them down completely... if you want to do that get organized. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1394
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:05:00 -
[48] - Quote
Querns wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Querns wrote:I am enjoying that the feedback adjustment for this feature actually removes utility from the theoretical small raider type and places the utility back into the large, entrenched power type without actually addressing the core problems with the device; namely, that two siphons completely shut down a moon harvester.
So, thanks CCP, for making it nicer for us and worse for everyone else. a small corp with 30 people in it can shiphon up to 150 poses. now lets say all of the alt chars can also drop shiphon units so now that 150 is up to 450. that is alot... i see no problem with large groups who are more organised to take advantage of this mechanic. that is how eve works... the main problem i could see is if trial accounts can drop these babies... that would just be terrible. No, you're absolutely right -- and, in fact, an alliance of 10987 people can siphon 54,935 moons. Plus, while your theoretical examples definitely don't have the organization to pull this sort of thing off, we do. So, y'know, it's nicer for us now that it's being artificially limited by character. Also, is your consistent misspelling of "siphon" as "shiphon" some sort of portmanteau of sh it and siphon, some sort of retar ded affectation, or just consistent inability to spell a thing
so you are telling me every person in goons is active all the time... honestly if you guys can get that many people to go around and do that... that would be great! i mean like news worthy great!
also about my spelling... meh. i suggest you get over it... though to answer the question it is option c. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1394
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:23:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kat Ayclism wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Kat Ayclism wrote:These are obscenely overpowered.
No notifications? So now I have to literally ******* check every hour? Are you guys insane or just stupid?
The amount siphoned is ridiculous. And it doesn't scale if there's multiple?
You leave zero incentive to actually run a tower. The tedious task of having to manually check EVERY HOUR per tower is simply a horrid idea. Slap two of the things on? The tower owner is getting fuckall.
I'm all for the idea of cheap siphon units, but at the point where they completely negate the ability to run a tower without having to be a lifeless, sleepless tower checking zombie EVERY SINGLE HOUR? FFS, you can't seriously expect that- this is a game, not a job. maybe you should stop owning 50% of the r64 towers which are scattered all around eve... the idea is if you live in a system you will notice if a red or nuet comes into system and you can stop them from shiphon your stuff... adapt or die. And be awake and on this game every motherfucking hour of the day? Go on a roam? WOOPS CAN'T CAUSE YOUR ******* TOWER WILL GET SIPHONED IF YOU AREN'T SITTING ON IT WATCHING IT CONSTANTLY. Hell, go to a market hub? WOOPS CAN'T GOTTA CHECK THE TOWER EVERY HOUR OF YOUR LIFE FOREVER. Even living in this one system you have to have an undue burden on the player to check every single hour. Hell even with plenty of alts or corp members to check your towers, it's still obscene purely from that. Zero freedom to actually have a life outside of the game, and then zero freedom to have a life in the game cause you can't go anyfuckingwhere for more than an hour?
start taking shifts i guess...
honestly as it stands pos income is mostly passive afk like...
what you are upset sounds like when domi pilots found out that they had to cycle thier drones because they would ge aggroed...
you mean i can sit there and make isk while watching top chef?!?!?!? that is terrible.
though i can see the pain in that the pos is always active and the shiphon unit cycles once per hour.... perhaps if it cycled 2-4 times a day but took the same amount that could be a solution for your prjected madness.
that way you only have to check the pos once every 3-6 hours... and if the spiphon unit is destroyed before its cycle is complete then zero moon goo is lost.
the unit would have a capsitor that starts to collect the goo but if it destroyed before cycle is complete then the goo is sent to the closest silo.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1394
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:25:00 -
[50] - Quote
Benjamin Hamburg wrote:Tippia wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Let me know what you think. I think I still want to know what the design goal behind making the API lie is. It's about making it harder to detect it while you aren't logged in the game. Want to secure your POS? Go, and actually play EVE Online.
indeed from a RP perspective the unit takes goo from the pos without the pos knowing it... so how would said pos relay that data that then gets sent out to the api system?
if the pos does not know its being robbed how is it supposed to let you know... There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
|
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1395
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:32:00 -
[51] - Quote
Miner Hottie wrote: Well I do play eve, when I am not working, sleeping, being with my family or wanking. Albeit CCP seems to think I should be online monitoring my towers 23.5/7 now.
not at all ccp thinks that you should only setup what you can afford to loose... just like a pimp mission ship.
when i used to be active in 0.0 space (non npc) we would have people from australia to america who were pretty much online all day.
they would be busy ratting/plexing/mining/scaning and would notice if a nuet/red came into system
all they would have to do now is after said red leaves the system to do a spot check on the moon poses in system... you can use d-scan for this purpose
perhaps you should get renters to occupy your moon system to monitor them for you...
make it rent free as an instentive. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1395
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:47:00 -
[52] - Quote
Abla Tive wrote:Limiting the number of siphons one character can drop is a bad idea unless only the dropper can empty the siphon.
At the very least, a character needs to be able to remotely destroy their remote siphons from the industry window to "free up siphon slots". Otherwise, after a few weeks of gameplay a character might not even know how many they have deployed and more importantly where the surviving ones still are.
Instead I suggest that the siphon display the name of the character who either deployed it, or last pulled stuff out of the siphon.
how about instead of max per character there is a max per pos?
small pos is max 2 medium 4 large 6? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1395
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 15:24:00 -
[53] - Quote
Miner Hottie wrote: Ah yes, my corp and alliance mates will save the day! Why didn't I realise that before! It must be, hmm, let me think. Oh yeah, any self respecting ratter rats in the systems with the best sec status and does that correlate with most tower farms are? Hmm.. maybe it doesn't. Also, most PVE players tend to POS up the moment a neutral comes in system and they wander off to do something else until the the neural gets blue balled. I am quite certain they will happily run around the 20 to 50 odd moons in the average system to find a small and ****** bit of EHP to grind for no money. Makes perfect sense.
you have heard of providence right? terrible true sec but filled with ratters.
and yes if you provide free rent to null bears they will be more then happy to patrol the system for you. (i know i would if i were a renter)
plus d-scan will help reduce the amount of posses you have to fly too. (though those pesky systems with 20 moons around one planet will be a ***** to partrol)
moreover good true sec is usually taken by the host alliance and not the renters. so its logical to just shift some renters to key systems that hold r64-r32 moons.
also you can let the renter know which moons to monitor. (afaik there are limited amount of r64 moons... are there any systems where you have multiple r64 moons? or is it more one r64 max per system?)
think of it as an oppurtunity to fill 0.0 with bears that then can be hunted and provide fun between strat ops. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1396
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 15:50:00 -
[54] - Quote
Miner Hottie wrote: Now I think I understand why you're in a NPC corp.
yes my jita price check and cyno alt is in a npc corp...
do you have a valid point to make or just stating it as an observation. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1396
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:12:00 -
[55] - Quote
Kat Ayclism wrote:You seem to be under the ridiculous delusion that
1) all moon owners own r64 2) only large groups own moons
All of that's flat out untrue. Small lowsec groups do happen to own moons, friend, and they are going to be far less able to absorb the way these can completely nullify that income. They also just so happen to be the types I referred to earlier that are far more timezone locked and thus unable to keep the coverage necessary to constantly patrol for these things.
20 mil to grief them out of a third-to-half a day's moon output assuming they're on the ball checking every day? And you think that's a good thing?
ah lowsec... yes. ok you have a point there as i do not spend that much time in that space.
when did i say that all moon owners own r64? i was looking at it from your perspective being in PL. so i was using r64 and r32 as examples of money moons. i was looking at the ability for groups like you to have full time coverage.
i know we only setup moon mining to cover the cost of the pos and typically dont make much profit from it.
moreover small groups like the one my main is in usually set up thier poses in system they live in. So as long as you have a good timezone coverage they should be fine. if anything this will make smaller entities team up with other time zone peeps to have full coverage.
I have stated options in previous posts that would enable a reduced amount of checking. like increasing siphon cycle time to 3 hours. this would reduce to checking only 8 times a day. vrs the 24 that would be required in the op.
so that would mean only 8 cycles would be siphoned and not 24 which would still make poses profitable... but when you start putting on more then one it would have to potential to reduce the profit.
personally i think the idea of the siphon unit is a great idea... totally it needs some work and polishing before november 19th but its worth it...
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1396
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:21:00 -
[56] - Quote
Miner Hottie wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Miner Hottie wrote: Now I think I understand why you're in a NPC corp.
yes my jita price check and cyno alt is in a npc corp... do you have a valid point to make or just stating it as an observation. Expressing my understanding of your point and position. Don't agree with it, but eh, CCP is determined to ignore us and implement this and then they will nerf it to oblivion once goons complete the cycle of deliberate abuse that has started now that they have warned CCP about it being OP.
you will notice i agree with the goons. though i am rather excited to see thier plan put into motion. its truely a great plan if they can pull it off.
correct me if i am wrong but i saw on twitter the other day a goon saying they just finished scanning 75k moons to figure out where all the new r64 are. if they can siphon half of them that would be a great achievement and they would deserve my respect for it. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1396
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
xttz wrote:If this is intended to drive conflict and have more players interacting, then people need to be fighting over siphons. As they stand they're nothing but a griefing tool that people can profit from if they can be bothered to. Players can be encouraged to interact like so:
- Remove waste as it currently works, a single siphon pulls 50% of material from a silo each tick. Up to 2 siphons can be anchored per 'end of chain' module on grid. They will automatically leech from the one that is physically nearest to them.
- When a siphon is destroyed, the full contents within are dropped back into the silo it originally came from.
- A siphon is emptied by a ship by clicking an 'empty' option while within 5km. This ejects any materials inside into a jetcan, but deducts a certain amount of waste first (much like POCOs). A nearly-empty siphon will have zero waste, a full siphon has 90% waste.
- The API reports the total contents of a silo plus any siphons leeching from it, meaning that it's only possible to detect loss if material is removed from the siphon.
The net effect of which is: 1) Siphon owners who are very proactive about their theft can steal the entire output of a tower, but are more likely to be discovered. 2) Siphon owners get diminishing returns by waiting, encouraging them to empty more often. This brings more opportunities to interdict them, and therefore more chances for PVP. If they wait too long, the starbase owner gets everything back without penalty. 3) Siphons cannot be spammed merciessly, resulting in situations where small reaction corps have to clear 50+ structures from their towers at a time.
i like this idea... i was also thinking what if the siphon unit was chance based? with a skill that increases chance for siphon.
starts off with 33% chance of siphon and goes up to 66% with skill at V.
this would make the unit unpredictable which IMO is a good thing.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1396
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:39:00 -
[58] - Quote
A Research Alt wrote:Goonswarm owns more than half the R64s in existence, so I don't see why they'd siphon their own belongings.
really this is goonswarm we are talking about... remember alts provide anonymity so how would the top goon brass know its one of thier line members chewing the fat? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1396
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:37:00 -
[59] - Quote
if the siphon unit is destroyed before the first tick is there any lost moon goo? or does the siphon only take after one cycle? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1396
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:54:00 -
[60] - Quote
Zakhin Desver wrote:MeBiatch wrote:if the siphon unit is destroyed before the first tick is there any lost moon goo? or does the siphon only take after one cycle? It will be fair to need at least 1 cycle
i would think so if you are on the ball then you can make sure there is no loss of goo. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1396
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 21:28:00 -
[61] - Quote
i am starting a new sevice... i call it siphon squad... i will personally monitor your poses for siphons. my only charge is erotic dancers, fedos and a nude photo of bea Arthur. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1401
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:00:00 -
[62] - Quote
Zakhin Desver wrote:Well, in fact, banning them from lowsec will make lowsec the training ground for pos owners. If you are in nullsec, you should be able to help yourself.
right and all those high value moons in low sec should then go to null right? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
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