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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
6
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Posted - 2011.11.02 05:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
raney ilara wrote: leave my domi drone boat alone.. even with the speed boost it will still be slower than my grandma with out her walker.
If it makes your feel any better its still faster than a Maelstrom...and about twice as agile. |
Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 08:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
luZk wrote:Tbh web bonus AND bs sized guns sounds a little overpowered to me. We dont want a bc that makes all the other obsolete now do we?
That that tank it would get whompped one on one against a Mrym. |
Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 09:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
luZk wrote:Onictus wrote:luZk wrote:Tbh web bonus AND bs sized guns sounds a little overpowered to me. We dont want a bc that makes all the other obsolete now do we? That that tank it would get whompped one on one against a Mrym. We dont know yet, but i kinda hope you're right.
Look at that hull stats, its like a diemost with worse resists......and Ironically with this pass LESS tank than the Tornado that can hit from out past 50km with ease (less shield /same armor)
Sans dones
Sans web bonus.
Pretty sure I could beat myself in a Talos (assuming no neut) with a Comet and I KNOW I could do with with an assault frigate.
Because now you have to go into scram range, with no tank, and no way to definitively in anything down without using two webs or just shield tanking and trying to melt the thing you scram.
Even cutting a gun and tossing on a neut is kinda meh, because you still be easy picking for fleet ceptors and anything with a scram.
Or use rails...with the added aggravation of **** poor tacking, not enough slots to give it good tracking and being WORSE at that roll than a Tornado.
Basically the ship went from pretty cool to meh...
Brutix will do the job better cheaper.
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Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 10:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Stop trying to theory craft the talos as a solopwnmobile and you will start to get better results.
I never did, I rarely fly blasters solo above the frigate class, mainly for all of the reasons I listed above.
425s Rails are going to be pretty crappy because the optimal on 425s is something like what 48km? Bases tracking is 0.009! x2.5 damage modifier. So plus 45% tracking for the "boost" and hull bonus and you have a whopping 0.013 tracking before pilot skills, I'll tell you from experience that you won't be able to hit a nano-drake at 35km that has ANY transversal going
To get ANY real damage out of it you have to basically forget any tank (remember Tornado has more tank) fit a SeBo and two TC's if you can get away with it plus MWD, three magstabs and suitecase in the lows.
....so great, you have accomplished a Vexor with a hell of a long range. Talk about drake bait.
Fit blasters and you have largely the same issue, you have to tank and you have to armor tank, because now you need MWD scram a TC because changing scripts is a HELL of a lot faster than changing ammo and a cap booster unless I miss my guess.
Oh yeah, and 1600mm plate, EANM and suite case are mandatory, so a pair of mag-stabs and you are done....all for less DPS than nano-cane as well as less tank.
I guess swarming caps is one thing, but you can use a BS for that without being a one trick pony. |
Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 11:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
luZk wrote:Okay how about this idea. Lets turn it around.
After many years of stuggle and factions seeing their own weapons turned against them they all invent a ship that counters just that.
Minmatar builds the bc that has a bonus against webbing.
Amarr invents a bc that has a bonus against neuts and nos.
Caldari builds a bc that has a bonus against ecm.
Gallente builds a bc that has a bonus against sensor damps.
Would that work?
Damps? Really?
I don't recall the last time I was sensor damped.
Webbed, nueted, NOS'd and jammed sure. |
Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 14:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:In case of the Talos, the initial web strength bonus was unfortunately contradictory with the previous goals, because when combined with its dronebay and blasters, it gave this ship the unique capability to dispatch smaller ship hulls significantly more easily than it should have been able to. It also lead to other issues, like acting as a cheap, effective tackle, put it in a dangerous spot to compete with Serpentis faction ships, or limiting this ship weapon systems to blasters only. For being EVE players ourselves we know the concept of pinning anything in web range to a dead halt with 90% webs before melting faces down with 8 Neutron Blaster Cannons II to be incredibly fun (had a lot of joy with tier 3 battlecruiser first stats myself during the internal play tests  ).However, as designers, we cannot in good conscience release a ship whose bonuses obviously go against the role goals it is supposed to follow. We understand that in this case it unfortunately created a lot of disappointment, but sadly these things are bound to happen when taking first pass data as granted.
So what is the Talos supposed to do against any BS that can field heavy drones and neuts?
It simply doesn't have the tank to hang out under the guns, and is neut vulnerable, so are we to understand its meant to be a rail ship, or just sub-par? |
Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 22:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Onictus wrote:
I never did, I rarely fly blasters solo above the frigate class, mainly for all of the reasons I listed above.
425s Rails are going to be pretty crappy because the optimal on 425s is something like what 48km? Bases tracking is 0.009! x2.5 damage modifier. So plus 45% tracking for the "boost" and hull bonus and you have a whopping 0.013 tracking before pilot skills, I'll tell you from experience that you won't be able to hit a nano-drake at 35km that has ANY transversal going
To get ANY real damage out of it you have to basically forget any tank (remember Tornado has more tank) fit a SeBo and two TC's if you can get away with it plus MWD, three magstabs and suitecase in the lows.
....so great, you have accomplished a Vexor with a hell of a long range. Talk about drake bait.
Fit blasters and you have largely the same issue, you have to tank and you have to armor tank, because now you need MWD scram a TC because changing scripts is a HELL of a lot faster than changing ammo and a cap booster unless I miss my guess.
Oh yeah, and 1600mm plate, EANM and suite case are mandatory, so a pair of mag-stabs and you are done....all for less DPS than nano-cane as well as less tank.
I guess swarming caps is one thing, but you can use a BS for that without being a one trick pony.
You were whining about not being able to take on a frigate. You are still whining about a ship none of us have been able to test yet. I am waiting to test this new toy to see what I can get out of it before I make my comments.
I'd didn't say anything about a frigate I said a nano-drake.
Go fit up a 425mm mega and try it. |
Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 11:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nyla Skin wrote:Soon Shin wrote:What do rails offer me that make them worth using over Beams and Artillery? The answer is simply none.
In this respect giving bonus to what the ship would actually be good at (range) makes sense. (as opposed to web bonus, which I already said doesnt fit in)
Which makes the Talo completely useless for anything other than gate camping and hisec antics.
Rail guns don't work in point range (so no small roaming gangs, and are of dubious value in larger fleets because without alpha it'll take a LOT of Taloses to knock down something and they have to do it from way out there. Against target that can't shoot back.
Blasters don't work on ships with no tank.
and large blasters are a poor choice if you are trying to kite.,,,Specially when you are looking at about 700dps of 800mm sexiness from a Tornado.
So what are we going to do with it again? |
Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
17
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 13:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Arrynoss wrote:
A 10% to the damage modifier along with the huge buffs to tracking, capacitance and so forth is going to make rail boats extremely competitive.
That huge buff to tracking had best bring it down to current 250mm rail levels on 425s, or my statement will hold, they simply won't work inside long point range, specially on a ship that only has room for a lunch box and two TEs. |
Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
26
|
Posted - 2011.11.15 09:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Saikron wrote:[
TL;DR - We made a gallente ship that was good, realized our error, and corrected it immediately.
More or less this, there is no reason to fly a Talos over a Tornado other than suicide ganking.
None. |
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Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
26
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Posted - 2011.11.15 09:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3919/nagav.png
.......Talos is now officially bottom of the barrel.
Unless you fancy operating a 30k eHP ship in scram range. |
Onictus
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.16 04:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Joe Skellington wrote:Game developers change things on a TEST server environment, and people scream like a kid whose candy was stolen. Get a freaking grip people.
Yeah well don't look now, but it looks distinctly like the expansion is gold. CCP is trumpeting that "all of the changes are on SiSi". |
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