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General Jack Cosmo
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
1
   |
Posted - 2013.10.19 10:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
It takes away from bs roles and it makes it too easy to gank for less in high sec space !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With lord Xanex by my side I can do anything (Atleast with a smile)-á!!!! |
Kane Fenris
NWP
96
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 10:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
it would be better if tornado just moves from AC/Arty to Cruise/torps this would remove highsec suicide ganking tornados and give the tempest atleast a little role (back) as Arty alpha ship of choice. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
800
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 10:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
I have this crazy notion that OP very recently found himself on the business end of a tornado gank. |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
3612
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 11:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Horribly written and argumented proposal with several exclamation marks- on normal forums, OP would receive a ban for badposting.
Notify-á-á You cannot do that while warping. |
Kate stark
666
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 11:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
you've expressed that you think it is an issue. yet you've failed to express why it's an issue, and why it needs fixing.
b-, can do better.
Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
Advent of Fate
202
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 11:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
General Jack Cosmo wrote:It takes away from bs roles and it makes it too easy to gank for less in high sec space !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind.
Source
http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/index.php/Multiple_exclamation_marks |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
647
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 11:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
more exclamation marks you use more your arguments get stronger. Also increase the chance to convince other forum users and CCP to listen to your requests. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
356
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 11:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tier 3's are glass cannons. Only the Tornado is really good for ganking, so I imagine if you changed that out for missiles we'd see the third Jita Riots...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
General Jack Cosmo
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 12:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
exclamation marks are the only weapon i have in forums :)
seriously, I think it was a bad idea is ccp willing to **** off a big part of their revenue stream (miners and missioners)
by making it too easy too gank and collect the mods ect w/o a greater penalty like using battle ships instead ! bam ! bam ! bam
BTW I do have spell check I just choose to be different !!!
With lord Xanex by my side I can do anything (Atleast with a smile)-á!!!! |
Kate stark
671
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 12:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
nobody is going to waste a t3 ganking your 20m retriever.
Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
dexter xio
TURN LEFT
13
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 13:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
People use Tier 3 BC's now?
Dexter xio - That cool guy |
Dalto Bane
Knights of the Posing Meat
The Obsidian Front
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 13:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
General Jack Cosmo wrote:exclamation marks are the only weapon i have in forums :)
seriously, I think it was a bad idea is ccp willing to **** off a big part of their revenue stream (miners and missioners)
by making it too easy too gank and collect the mods ect w/o a greater penalty like using battle ships instead ! bam ! bam ! bam
BTW I do have spell check I just choose to be different !!!
I mine and run missions with my alts on a very regular basis and I have rarely had issue with ganking whether it be from Destroyers, Tier 3 BC, or anything else of that nature, but then again, I properly fit my mining ships, constant eyes on local, and typically friendly and courteous to the locals, and gankers alike. I never autopilot, and most of all, I don't use a fit worth more than the hull. When that time comes, and it has before, and myself or one of my alts, or a mate is ganked. Give the gankers a salute, and don't feed them tears, in space or in the forums. Perhaps, my friend, you are doing it wrong if the reason for your grief is because T3 BC's ganked you. I can, with near certainty, tell you that is exactly what happened. You were running Level 4 missions in a.... let me guess... CNR... and Faction Mods??
No matter, Tier 3's are here to stay, and I hope you are too. Good luck and fly safe. o7
"Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep." |
General Jack Cosmo
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 13:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
i know some one that lost his 2.6bil golem to tornados
but you're right on the miner gank i saw some one get blown up by a bunch of destroyers!
With lord Xanex by my side I can do anything (Atleast with a smile)-á!!!! |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
576
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 15:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
ABC's should be made T2 which would solve the cheap ganking issue nicely and would recognise that they are clearly a specialisation and would open up space for proper Attack bc's that actually use medium weapons.
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name
AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings
125
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
So you are going to screw over the people who fly them for other purposes? If you take away Tier3s people will just use Catalysts and Arty thrashers.
And how exactly is Glass Cannon, Or Kiting a BS role? |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources
Tactical Narcotics Team
1832
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
And if they were removed or made T2, what would you do to:
The ships that exist
The blueprints that exist
The niche they fill
The fleet doctrines
The people who can fly them now (If they go T2)
How would all of the costs, in ISK, materials, time and skills be reimbursed?
Also, OP, post your lossmail.
Also also, the Talos is one of the best looking hips in EVE. if you want it removed, I will pod you. Repeatedly.  |
Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
1734
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
OP -- good news! CCP has done away with tiers, so you no longer have "Tier 3" battlecruisers to worry about!
On the other hand ... those Attack Battlecruisers can really **** up your day.
Dscan and being ATK will help you here.
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Jasmine Assasin
State War Academy
Caldari State
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 16:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:ABC's should be made T2 which would solve the cheap ganking issue nicely and would recognise that they are clearly a specialisation and would open up space for proper Attack bc's that actually use medium weapons.
Aside from the OP and his many exclamation points, I have to agree with this statement. T3 BCs should have been made tech II.
Added requirements:
New Racial "Advanced BC" skill I
Racial BC V
Large Laser/Hybrid/Projectile Weapon V
Weapon Upgrades V
Energy Grid Upgrades V
Although CCP makes it a point to say "If you could fly it before, you can fly it now." so I'm not sure what this would solve aside from helping prevent easily created future gank alts. But there are already more than enough anyway. Of course they could use BC V as the break, as long as you have that they will give you the "ABC I" skill "for free". Then give people say 3-6 months warning so that those that wanted to retain the ability or want to create a char w/ the ability can do it now. There are still lots of people that have BC V b/c of the Odyssey changes so I imagine now would be the best time to start in on it.
My .02 ISK anyway. |
Octoven
Phoenix Productions
Headshot Gaming
206
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 17:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
In its current state the Tier 3 BCs add more to the game then they take away. Also, removing them will take away more than adding. It stands to reason the wiser choice would be to leave them in. Ive been popped by nados and still support having them in. I also do not see much structure with your proposal. It is more like a rant than a solution. You wish to remove something from the game and give a reason, but no solution to compensate. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
806
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 19:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Where is my Destroyer that can mount eight Cruiser-sized guns?
Let's add those too. |
Kate stark
680
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 21:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
General Jack Cosmo wrote:i know some one that lost his 2.6bil golem to tornados
but you're right on the miner gank i saw some one get blown up by a bunch of destroyers!
and? if you put enough shiny **** on your ships some one will gank you. it's not the tier 3 battlecruiser ship's fault he turned his golem in to a loot pinata.
Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2013.10.19 23:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Additional player interaction is "exact;y" what CCP intended and things are WAI.
Just because you are not in the profession that uses this tool does not mean the tool is bad or needs to leave the game. |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
22
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 00:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
I've never seen or heard of a T3 cruiser ganking in high-sec, outside of wars. I've taken a few rounds from them in low-sec, but even when I was running badgers through low-sec pipes it was never the lone thrashers that worried me, it was these guys and these guys. Not once did a Thrasher ever do more than 40% shield damage before I warped out & cloaked up. (The fit is the same on both kills, one doesn't seem to show it for some reason.) |
HardRockLife
War Decs Inc
10
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 00:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sarah Stallman wrote:I've never seen or heard of a T3 cruiser ganking in high-sec, outside of wars. I've taken a few rounds from them in low-sec, but even when I was running badgers through low-sec pipes it was never the lone thrashers that worried me, it was these guys and these guys. Not once did a Thrasher ever do more than 40% shield damage before I warped out & cloaked up. (The fit is the same on both kills, one doesn't seem to show it for some reason.)
Ive seen several in fact I think I have some on my kb
Aside from arty loki, they kinda suck at it really
Also I agree that abcs should be made t2, they to me, fall in the too good for to cheap category.
Especially now that we have reached the point of reps work or your dead, host ehp doesnt matter. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
464
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 00:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:General Jack Cosmo wrote:i know some one that lost his 2.6bil golem to tornados
but you're right on the miner gank i saw some one get blown up by a bunch of destroyers! and? if you put enough shiny **** on your ships some one will gank you. it's not the tier 3 battlecruiser ship's fault he turned his golem in to a loot pinata.
Actually a 2.6 bil Golem is not particularly blingy. Nearly half that cost is in the pure hull.
In terms of isk lost, you can gank a brick fitted Golem (or any Marauder) and win all day long on your isk boards. Since the hull itself costs far more to buy than the Tornados to gank it do.
You might not make a profit, but I'd be highly surprised if they made a profit on a 2.6 Bil Golem also. They would have had to get better than average loot drops to do that. Slim profit if they did.
My complaint with the ABC's is that they put out the same DPS/Alpha as a BS. And strongly feel they would be more balanced at only 6 base turret slots rather than the 8 they do have. So you get the same ranges as a BS. Same sort of weapons. But slightly less DPS per ship. This would help BS keep relevant roles in the game outside of the mega blob, as often BS are getting overshadowed & edged out. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
15591
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 03:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:General Jack Cosmo wrote:i know some one that lost his 2.6bil golem to tornados
but you're right on the miner gank i saw some one get blown up by a bunch of destroyers! and? if you put enough shiny **** on your ships some one will gank you. it's not the tier 3 battlecruiser ship's fault he turned his golem in to a loot pinata. This.
The price of that pilots ship is completely irrelevant, as to if it should be allowed to be ganked. But it may be relevant is to whether it may or may not be. As always, don't fly what you cannot afford to lose.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
360
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 03:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ah, let's just make every ship the same. We abhor choices...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Qaidan Alenko
Eezo-Lution Inc.
8146
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 04:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Exclamation marks... the new Caps Lock.
Go ahead... Get your-áWham on!!! |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Forsak3n.
635
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 04:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
I think that if the Attack Battlecruisers were built to use medium guns instead of large, with powergrid and CPU reduction adjusted to make fitting otherwise identical, that would balance them perfectly without the need for any other changes.
And tell me seriously, would you not fly an Oracle with 310 beam laser DPS at 60km? (aurora ammo, tech 2 heavy beam lasers, 2x heat sink II) It's honestly not a bad setup at all. Compare to a Harbinger dealing 279 beam laser DPS at 60km while also being much less mobile, though being able to use drones and having a significantly better tank, I'd say it makes the two fairly even and both would be seen a lot on the field.
But having large weapons on the attack battlecruisers is just way too much: with Tachyon Beam Lasers, that Oracle deals 446 DPS at 120km. Why, then, would you ever bother flying a Harbinger, except to save some ISK on the hull, or because you need the superior tracking of medium beam lasers?
Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. |
Kate stark
681
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 07:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Kate stark wrote:General Jack Cosmo wrote:i know some one that lost his 2.6bil golem to tornados
but you're right on the miner gank i saw some one get blown up by a bunch of destroyers! and? if you put enough shiny **** on your ships some one will gank you. it's not the tier 3 battlecruiser ship's fault he turned his golem in to a loot pinata. Actually a 2.6 bil Golem is not particularly blingy. Nearly half that cost is in the pure hull. In terms of isk lost, you can gank a brick fitted Golem (or any Marauder) and win all day long on your isk boards. Since the hull itself costs far more to buy than the Tornados to gank it do. You might not make a profit, but I'd be highly surprised if they made a profit on a 2.6 Bil Golem also. They would have had to get better than average loot drops to do that. Slim profit if they did. My complaint with the ABC's is that they put out the same DPS/Alpha as a BS. And strongly feel they would be more balanced at only 6 base turret slots rather than the 8 they do have. So you get the same ranges as a BS. Same sort of weapons. But slightly less DPS per ship. This would help BS keep relevant roles in the game outside of the mega blob, as often BS are getting overshadowed & edged out.
actually, the hull is about a third, not a half.
that means you've got 1.7bn isk of loot on that ship. consider the rule of thumb for freighters being "don't carry more than 1bn isk of cargo" and you can easily see why he was ganked.
850m would be the expected loot drops, which would easily pay to gank a marauder which is going to be active tanked for missions and have a lower buffer than something like an incursion ship fit for passive tank.
BS still have a relevant role because they're not made from paper. have you seen the EHP on a gank fit talos or tornado? it's laughably low. not all ships have to be good at suicide ganking in the same way not all ships have to be good at exploration.
Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
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