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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4148
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 09:05:00 -
[271] - Quote
I see arguments both for and against the multi-boxer "having no life".
But that is indeed subjective. If you can clear an ice belt in 20 minutes, you probably have time to do other things, and hence are more likely to have a life than other players.
But I also wonder if the "no life" aspect has less to do with time, and more to do with the "min maxer" compulsion we see, sometimes to a level where we question mental health.
That is, is this someone with $$ who is simply up to the challenge and wants to max out ice mining just because? Or is there something more to this? Perhaps this is somebody who does this just to see if it can be done. Or maybe this is RMT or run by someone on an alliance level?
We'll probably never know.
All mining should become a mini-game. |

Dave Stark
4220
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 09:07:00 -
[272] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:All mining should become a mini-game.
yes because making the lowest paid, tedious, and dull activity even more tedious and dull is a brilliant idea. |

Angelica Dreamstar
Epic Boo Bees
191
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 09:07:00 -
[273] - Quote
And I thought the 30ish procurers, all locking me, with their drones deployed, was scary... Create a new, pretty, female character! Make the name count! Join the epic boo bees! (RP,PvE/PvP,wardecs,new players!) You're at it from day 0! |

Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
36
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 09:09:00 -
[274] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Diamond Zerg wrote:HAHA, It's The Wis!
Good to know he's still playing EVE.
I have nothing against The Wis, or his like, but CCP please nerf hisec so ISBOXERS can't affect the EVE economy like this. i'll agree with you if you tell me how 96 accounts owned by 1 player is damaging the economy more than 96 individual players controlling all of those accounts.
Because if 96 players were playing, they'd all get a share of the profit.
In this case, only one person gains an advantage (to the detriment of non multiboxing miners). |

Dave Stark
4220
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 09:15:00 -
[275] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Diamond Zerg wrote:HAHA, It's The Wis!
Good to know he's still playing EVE.
I have nothing against The Wis, or his like, but CCP please nerf hisec so ISBOXERS can't affect the EVE economy like this. i'll agree with you if you tell me how 96 accounts owned by 1 player is damaging the economy more than 96 individual players controlling all of those accounts. Because if 96 players were playing, they'd all get a share of the profit. In this case, only one person gains an advantage (to the detriment of non multiboxing miners).
that's nice, but that's not damaging the economy. |

SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2349
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 09:25:00 -
[276] - Quote
Diamond Zerg wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Diamond Zerg wrote:HAHA, It's The Wis!
Good to know he's still playing EVE.
I have nothing against The Wis, or his like, but CCP please nerf hisec so ISBOXERS can't affect the EVE economy like this. i'll agree with you if you tell me how 96 accounts owned by 1 player is damaging the economy more than 96 individual players controlling all of those accounts. Because if 96 players were playing, they'd all get a share of the profit. In this case, only one person gains an advantage (to the detriment of non multiboxing miners).
That's not really economy damaging. As an isolated incident I doubt he's affecting the cost of minerals to any large degree unless he is selling them in some random constellation in the middle of nowhere where he is buying them. If he's shipping to Jita, and it's likely he is, he and most of the other "I ISBOX 20+ MINERS FOR FUN" crowd are likely not even a blip on the statistics sheet of ice costs.
EDIT: Not to mention that since we're doing the whole 96 real to 1 with 96 accounts argument, nothing really changes. He still has to outfit 96 characters, so the isk still gets spread around them unless he's simply trying to achieve homeostasis with those characters.
I mean honestly market bots being run by a just a few single accounts would cause far more trouble.
Just because I like anecdotes: At a smaller scale we have a really good market in our home system of VFK, to the point where you can buy just about any ship hull you want and fit it out on our market, and we generally have a large enough selection of the "Best" of the deadspace/faction loot should you care to pimp it out. A few years ago we had some ******* manage to get docked with a neutral market bot and he absolutely ****** the market beyond belief, and this was just one dude.
I'd wager there are probably 20-30 market bots in Jita spinning right now, doing damage. |

thetwilitehour
GoonWaffe
211
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 10:10:00 -
[277] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote: I'd wager there are probably 20-30 market bots in Jita spinning right now, doing damage.
How do you damage the economy with market bots? What does it even mean to damage the economy? |

Keno Skir
forward unt0 dawn
638
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 10:38:00 -
[278] - Quote
I only see 50 of his fleet in that picture.. Where are the other 47?
Someone should just repeatedly wardec him so he constantly has to change corp on every one of his many alts.. BUDDY TRIALS - 21days + ISK bonus + Starting Assistance : https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=77facad8-d941-45ad-95bc-c1ec90919b6b&action=buddy Feel free to contact me with questions :) |

Dave Stark
4224
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 10:39:00 -
[279] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:I only see 50 of his fleet in that picture.. Where are the other 47?
Someone should just repeatedly wardec him so he constantly has to change corp on every one of his many alts..
npc corp, good luck with that. |

Keno Skir
forward unt0 dawn
638
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 11:03:00 -
[280] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Keno Skir wrote:I only see 50 of his fleet in that picture.. Where are the other 47?
Someone should just repeatedly wardec him so he constantly has to change corp on every one of his many alts.. npc corp, good luck with that.
Ah pants i did wonder, didn't recognise the corp tag..
In that case..
I'll throw a couple disco boats at this if anyone else will? BUDDY TRIALS - 21days + ISK bonus + Starting Assistance : https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=77facad8-d941-45ad-95bc-c1ec90919b6b&action=buddy Feel free to contact me with questions :) |

Rhatar Khurin
Happy Asteroid Ltd
487
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 11:08:00 -
[281] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote: EDIT: Not to mention that since we're doing the whole 96 real to 1 with 96 accounts argument, nothing really changes. He still has to outfit 96 characters, so the isk still gets spread around them unless he's simply trying to achieve homeostasis with those characters.
Well said, it might be one person who is very organised.. but it[s not really different than the same amount of actual players doing the same thing.
(they must make a fortune though to pay for all those plexs) |

Dave Stark
4224
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 11:17:00 -
[282] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Keno Skir wrote:I only see 50 of his fleet in that picture.. Where are the other 47?
Someone should just repeatedly wardec him so he constantly has to change corp on every one of his many alts.. npc corp, good luck with that. Ah pants i did wonder, didn't recognise the corp tag.. In that case.. I'll throw a couple disco boats at this if anyone else will?
even if he isn't in one now, one wardec and he will be. |

Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
203
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 12:07:00 -
[283] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:That's not really economy damaging. As an isolated incident I doubt he's affecting the cost of minerals to any large degree unless he is selling them in some random constellation in the middle of nowhere where he is buying them. If he's shipping to Jita, and it's likely he is, he and most of the other "I ISBOX 20+ MINERS FOR FUN" crowd are likely not even a blip on the statistics sheet of ice costs.
EDIT: Not to mention that since we're doing the whole 96 real to 1 with 96 accounts argument, nothing really changes. He still has to outfit 96 characters, so the isk still gets spread around them unless he's simply trying to achieve homeostasis with those characters.
If you don't understand how producing 96n objects for the price of 1 "hurts" the economy, then you don't understand economics. It's pretty basic. As you introduce more of n, n becomes less scarce. As n becomes less scarce, it's "value" decreases. As its value decreases, there is less and less motivation to produce it and people move on to finding other things to "produce".
Ok, ice is cheaper and people don't want to mine ice. So what? Well, so that is one activity that people are disincentivized from doing. EVE is essentially a finite collection of activities that we can do and objects we can produce in exchange for the things that we find to be valuable. I trade the value that I create for the value that I want that may have been created by someone else (or I just create the value that I want for myself). So, if you take that one activity (ice harvesting) and that one object (ice ore) out of the system, you are devaluing the system. If he is producing what it should take 96 people to produce, several things happen. 1) The 95 other people who would have produced that ice now have 1 less (attractive) option for interfacing with the economy. 2) Those 95 people will go one to produce some other object or action (presumably, or they may just not play), thus devaluing that next object or action by introducing more of it into the economy. 3) The multiboxer will likely sell that ice for less than the collection of 96 actual players would have, because to him/her, ice is theoretically 96 times less valuable. 4) That multiboxer will be a net extractor of value from the economy, because actual players introduce other value into the economy beyond just the ice that they mine i.e. they "play" the game, with others. The multiboxer on the other hand cannot carry on 96 conversations, cannot innovate at the same rate as 96 players would, cannot organize or analyze the way that 96 human beings can. He can just produce his ice and trade it for whatever it is he wants, presumably ISK. There is an antiseptic nature to that conversion that ultimately leads to deficiencies in the system.
It's easy to understand if you take the scenario to it's ultimate expression and just have one guy pay CCP enough money such that he becomes the only producer of ice, such that he can field enough characters to mine all the ice in the game. Now, put all those other ice miners somewhere else, lets say in the asteroid belts. Now, in addition to ice harvesting being a non-activity (because you'll get no little to no value from doing it), ore mining is now taking a huge hit, because with all the new miners, the value of ore plummets. Then, the value of minerals plummets. Then, the value of things created with minerals plummets. With production yielding very low value for the amount of work put in, people must turn to doing other things. Some won't, because they don't want to use EVE as a glorified chat room. They want to have an effect on the game that they play. Some won't turn to destruction because it's just not in their nature. There's only so many things a given person will want to do in the game. When the things they want to do are devalued the pointlessness, they will cease to play. (Or they might throw a tantrum and start ganking noobs in Uitra. Who knows?)
We can't really know exactly how much damage a multiboxer might be doing to the game, because it is difficult to quantify what any person puts in or takes out of the game and it is difficult to understand how the result of "putting in" and "taking out" affects them going forward. It should be enough to understand that ice harvesting would be a more rewarding activity for more people if he/she wasn't doing what he/she is doing. |

Dave Stark
4224
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 12:09:00 -
[284] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:If you don't understand how producing 96n objects for the price of 1 "hurts" the economy,
when that happens, we'll let you know. as yet, it hasn't. |

RAIN Arthie
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
193
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 13:17:00 -
[285] - Quote
I am at work giving that miner and his wallet a standing ovation. Just WOW. Convo me dude, we need you.  |

RAIN Arthie
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
193
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 13:19:00 -
[286] - Quote
That one miner has the economy in his hand. As I have said before Miners run EVE. |

alchemist8
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 15:39:00 -
[287] - Quote
RAIN Arthie wrote:That one miner has the economy in his hand. As I have said before Miners run EVE.
Miners are fast food employees of eve. Miners don't run eve, they work in the slums of eve.
This is what happens when you multibox 90 accounts. I encourage all of you to do the same.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlhlwuf4qjs&feature=youtu.be
As you can see there are major downsides. There are much easier and less costly ways to make fortunes in eve.
|

Mr Blah Blahson
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 15:44:00 -
[288] - Quote
Look at the price of White Glaze. You guys realize most of the hi-sec White Glaze is mined by massive multibox bot fleets, right?
Of course it hurts the economy. Look at ore prices over time. The supply is too massive, mainly due to stupid things like 95 person bot fleets.
alchemist8 wrote:RAIN Arthie wrote:That one miner has the economy in his hand. As I have said before Miners run EVE. Miners are fast food employees of eve. Miners don't run eve, they work in the slums of eve. This is what happens when you multibox 90 accounts. I encourage all of you to do the same. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlhlwuf4qjs&feature=youtu.beAs you can see there are major downsides. There are much easier and less costly ways to make fortunes in eve. Yeah, Mackinaws.
If those were all Skiffs, with DCII, good luck pulling that off. |

Dave Stark
4228
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 15:48:00 -
[289] - Quote
Mr Blah Blahson wrote:Look at the price of White Glaze. You guys realize most of the hi-sec White Glaze is mined by massive multibox bot fleets, right?
Of course it hurts the economy. Look at ore prices over time. The supply is too massive, mainly due to stupid things like 95 person bot fleets.
white glaze. 283m/unit clear icicle. 213m/unit.
so i'm guessing clear icicle is mined by EVEN MORE MASSIVE MULTIBOX FLEETS right? |

Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
329
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 16:47:00 -
[290] - Quote
Louise Beethoven wrote:These no life losers ruin the game for everyone
Confirming that no life loser ruined my game so I quit. Wahh! 
 DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
|

La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1441
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 17:11:00 -
[291] - Quote
This is the disservice the barge EHP buff has done to the EVE community. Notice how all of the mackinaws are alive and stealing all of that ice from the poor newbie ice miners. Think of the newbies, its time to revert the barge EHP buff. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |

trader joes Ichinumi
Waltaratzor Corporation
27
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 17:16:00 -
[292] - Quote
Iudicium Vastus wrote:Gee, where's this new order when they're almost actually needed?
Do you know if he has mining permits? It appears he is actually at his keyboard for this. |

trader joes Ichinumi
Waltaratzor Corporation
27
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 17:18:00 -
[293] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:The New Order is currently accepting applications for 388 catalyst pilots. When we reach that number of pilots who can be online at the same time with catalysts in the appropriate staging system, we will launch on those macks. If you're not willing to be one of the 388 pilots it would take to do the job, please don't ask for the New Order to handle it. The New Order is made up of pilots, heroes everyone of them, that undock to make a difference every day. Join the cause.
We could probably do it with 20 smart bombers if we catch him offguard. |

The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1807
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 17:19:00 -
[294] - Quote
Who are we to say if he is a loser or not.
He is just following his passion by playing EVE (albeit at a different level than most of the players).
Who are we to judge?
|

RAIN Arthie
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
193
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 17:31:00 -
[295] - Quote
alchemist8 wrote:RAIN Arthie wrote:That one miner has the economy in his hand. As I have said before Miners run EVE. Miners are fast food employees of eve. Miners don't run eve, they work in the slums of eve. This is what happens when you multibox 90 accounts. I encourage all of you to do the same. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlhlwuf4qjs&feature=youtu.beAs you can see there are major downsides. There are much easier and less costly ways to make fortunes in eve.
That had nothing to do with my statement. Yeah you can blow them up however your little brain fails to realize he probably replaced all of that in an hour and made back 7 times as much mining. Guy who multibox like that have plenty to burn. So really all those guys got was a cheap thrill. Think before you speak. |

shimiku
Black VooDoo Asassins Cult of War
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 17:42:00 -
[296] - Quote
dat corp name [FISE] = [pus-sy] in danish |

Dave Stark
4233
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 17:44:00 -
[297] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:This is the disservice the barge EHP buff has done to the EVE community. Notice how all of the mackinaws are alive and stealing all of that ice from the poor newbie ice miners. Think of the newbies, its time to revert the barge EHP buff. I agree.
mining barges needed more cpu/pg to fit a tank, not an ehp buff with the same restrictive cpu/pg that leaves slots empty due to a lack of cpu/pg.
that way, those interested and willing to protect their assets can, and those that don't want to are left to the sharks. |

Ekkentros Mercari
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 18:10:00 -
[298] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:La Nariz wrote:This is the disservice the barge EHP buff has done to the EVE community. Notice how all of the mackinaws are alive and stealing all of that ice from the poor newbie ice miners. Think of the newbies, its time to revert the barge EHP buff. I agree. mining barges needed more cpu/pg to fit a tank, not an ehp buff with the same restrictive cpu/pg that leaves slots empty due to a lack of cpu/pg. that way, those interested and willing to protect their assets can, and those that don't want to are left to the sharks. It's like you don't believe the procurer even exists. TL;DR: Don't reply. |

Dave Stark
4235
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 18:33:00 -
[299] - Quote
Ekkentros Mercari wrote:Dave Stark wrote:La Nariz wrote:This is the disservice the barge EHP buff has done to the EVE community. Notice how all of the mackinaws are alive and stealing all of that ice from the poor newbie ice miners. Think of the newbies, its time to revert the barge EHP buff. I agree. mining barges needed more cpu/pg to fit a tank, not an ehp buff with the same restrictive cpu/pg that leaves slots empty due to a lack of cpu/pg. that way, those interested and willing to protect their assets can, and those that don't want to are left to the sharks. It's like you don't believe the procurer even exists.
it's like you've not actually read my posts.
once you've fit ice harvesting modules to a hulk, for example, you have less than 60 cpu remaining, and less than 12pg remaining. consider that a t2 invuln requires 44 cpu. even a meta invuln requires 34, which is over half of the available cpu. again; an arbitrary ehp increase is dumb when your ship will have empty slots due to it simply not having the pg/cpu to fit modules to it. |

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1982
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 18:40:00 -
[300] - Quote
An object lesson on why CCP will never ban ISOboxer, or other large scale multi-char software programs. There are enough people like this playing the game, that there would be a significant hit to the sub base, and CCP's bottom line, if these type of players were forced out of the game. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
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