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Schnuur	Posted - 2006.02.01 21:34:00 - [1] Edited by: Schnuur on 01/02/2006 21:36:45 This topic has been raised so many times. Drones hump on their way back to ship Drones attack targets far away from ship Drones fly like 10 KMs an hour when attacking next target Drones stops just before entering Drone bay Drones dosn't attack aggressive targets, but buildings And so on Drones DOES hump, if they have the same route back to your ship. Just like any other vessel in EOL does. Try undocking and warp to the same target as another undocking ship. No, drones attack targets closest to them, not what appears to look closest to you, on your overview. Yes, they do sometimes. So do you when you are near large objects, like Asteroids. The closer to drone bay, the more similar their route will be - look above. And remember to decrease ship velocity before - that is simply obvious. Drones are Drones, targets painted as hostile are regarded as hostile. In many situations this seems stupid but in some missions, where the objective is to destroy hostile, but non aggressive targets, this makes sense. And so on... Drones are like any other flying object in this game, not killers with direct links to our brain - they need guidance - a few mouseclicks will settle all. I, for one would love that direct link, but that would not be fair. Comments are very welcome
SpaceCleaver	Posted - 2006.02.01 21:44:00 - [2] Edited by: SpaceCleaver on 01/02/2006 21:44:35 Edited by: SpaceCleaver on 01/02/2006 21:44:23 Originally by: Schnuur The closer to drone bay, the more similar their route will be - look above. And remember to decrease ship velocity before - that is simply obvious. This dosn't explain why one single drone stops 2000m away from you. EDIT: BTW the simple solution is to be in a gang. Drones behave somewhat normaly when you're in a gang.
X'Shark	Posted - 2006.02.01 21:49:00 - [3] Originally by: Schnuur Edited by: Schnuur on 01/02/2006 21:36:45 This topic has been raised so many times. Drones hump on their way back to ship Drones attack targets far away from ship Drones fly like 10 KMs an hour when attacking next target Drones stops just before entering Drone bay Drones dosn't attack aggressive targets, but buildings And so on Drones DOES hump, if they have the same route back to your ship. Just like any other vessel in EOL does. Try undocking and warp to the same target as another undocking ship. No, drones attack targets closest to them, not what appears to look closest to you, on your overview. Yes, they do sometimes. So do you when you are near large objects, like Asteroids. The closer to drone bay, the more similar their route will be - look above. And remember to decrease ship velocity before - that is simply obvious. Drones are Drones, targets painted as hostile are regarded as hostile. In many situations this seems stupid but in some missions, where the objective is to destroy hostile, but non aggressive targets, this makes sense. And so on... Drones are like any other flying object in this game, not killers with direct links to our brain - they need guidance - a few mouseclicks will settle all. I, for one would love that direct link, but that would not be fair. Comments are very welcome go away
Hobbledehoy	Posted - 2006.02.01 21:51:00 - [4] I disagree with this post, I think they are messed up (only with slow attack on a new target, not other issues). I've tried forming a gang and giving them a different order (like return to orbit) and then another attack order when they go slow but it doesn't fix it. They go fast back to the ship but continue to go very slow when engaging enemies.
Bbllaarrgg	Posted - 2006.02.01 21:52:00 - [5] Your wrong. I could post a well thought out reply as to why, but i'll just link you to this thread which points out whats wrong far more eloquently than i can, if you think these are not problems then i refer you to my 1st paragraph :P _________________________ Insert fnord here.
Arte	Posted - 2006.02.01 22:13:00 - [6] Originally by: Schnuur ......The closer to drone bay, the more similar their route will be - look above. And remember to decrease ship velocity before - that is simply obvious........ ......Comments are very welcome I did missions earlier today, and mining with an alt and in both occasions I used drones. In both circumstances, I selected 'return to drone bay'. In both circumstances, the drones got to approx 2km from me and stopped in space. I was stationary when this happened. (was mining static on one occasion; and stopped to allow drones to get to me before going through a gate on the other occasion). In both circumstances I had to reselect 'return and orbit' to get them to move again, and then called them into my drone bay one by one. You're wrong to dismiss all the problems as 'easily explainable'. Some of your explanations totally make sense but that doesn't make it alright. Drone AI is bugged and needs fixing.
Xascor	Posted - 2006.02.01 22:15:00 - [7] Originally by: Schnuur No, drones attack targets closest to them, not what appears to look closest to you, on your overview. Comments are very welcome Hmmm...I'm surrounded by 12 frigates orbiting at 4-9km. I tell my drones to attack one of those frigates. They kill the frigate and then some move to a structure that is over 30km away. No math that I can figure would cause the structure to be closer to the drones than the 11 frigates orbiting me. Solutions: There should be no auto attacking of structures Drones should have settings of Aggressive, Defensive and Passive Drones should return to orbit after destroying their target Originally by: Schnuur Drones hump on their way back to ship Drones fly like 10 KMs an hour when attacking next target Drones stops just before entering Drone bay Solutions: Drones should continue attempting to MWD until they complete docking Drones should continue attempting to MWD until they reach optimal range Drones should engage MWD each time a command is given even if the command is repeated ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Still working on
Hait	Posted - 2006.02.01 22:23:00 - [8] Quote: Drones DOES hump, if they have the same route back to your ship. Just like any other vessel in EOL does. Try undocking and warp to the same target as another undocking ship. ummhmm ... yeah I kinda get bumped off at a couple of km/s not 10's of m/s Quote: No, drones attack targets closest to them, not what appears to look closest to you, on your overview. nope - mine will quite happily charge off to go kill something 30km away from them (preferably a wall or something) when there's another target much closer to them. Not to mention that they'll probably split up into 2 or 3 groups/individuals in the process and go for separate targets. Quote: Yes, they do sometimes. So do you when you are near large objects, like Asteroids. riiiight ... and this happens in open space all the time
Schnuur	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:25:00 - [9] Really expected this - people don't bother and stuff like that. Elaborate or dissipate. Drones have survived since the start of this game. Hate them, that is fair and everyones privilege, but please be specific - why does my drones stop 2000 Ms from my ship - I don't know - is anything prohibiting them - are you moving - did you give contraorders and so on? This is not to pick on you - but drone operators really often expect the drones to be an extra limp. Bet my skills on drones from the start, never had a reason to complain - apart from complaints that comply to all computer game logics.
Schnuur	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:31:00 - [10] Originally by: Xascor Originally by: Schnuur No, drones attack targets closest to them, not what appears to look closest to you, on your overview. Comments are very welcome Hmmm...I'm surrounded by 12 frigates orbiting at 4-9km. I tell my drones to attack one of those frigates. They kill the frigate and then some move to a structure that is over 30km away. No math that I can figure would cause the structure to be closer to the drones than the 11 frigates orbiting me. Solutions: There should be no auto attacking of structures Drones should have settings of Aggressive, Defensive and Passive Drones should return to orbit after destroying their target Originally by: Schnuur Drones hump on their way back to ship Drones fly like 10 KMs an hour when attacking next target Drones stops just before entering Drone bay Solutions: Drones should continue attempting to MWD until they complete docking Drones should continue attempting to MWD until they reach optimal range Drones should engage MWD each time a command is given even if the command is repeated Here you say it: Maybe you layout of drone behaviour is better than mine, don't care - but I know how they behave - so do you apparently. Why not adapt. 90 % of all posts are about why things don't do the way I would like them to do - I suggest you do like you know they already do. Used them for two years and still happy.
Schnuur	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:38:00 - [11] Xascor Was this in a belt ? Getting away from large items. i.e. Asteroids moves your drones to a point where new targets will be closer, than originally? Most problems are in belts - but then again that is where most gangs fail.
Hoshi	Posted - 2006.02.01 23:56:00 - [12] Originally by: Schnuur Why not adapt. Why should people have to adapt to a behavior that shouldn't exist in the first place. Just because you can work around a bug doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Nimicus	Posted - 2006.02.02 00:20:00 - [13] Originally by: Schnuur Edited by: Schnuur on 01/02/2006 21:36:45 This topic has been raised so many times. Drones hump on their way back to ship Drones attack targets far away from ship Drones fly like 10 KMs an hour when attacking next target Drones stops just before entering Drone bay Drones dosn't attack aggressive targets, but buildings And so on Drones DOES hump, if they have the same route back to your ship. Just like any other vessel in EOL does. Try undocking and warp to the same target as another undocking ship. No, drones attack targets closest to them, not what appears to look closest to you, on your overview. Yes, they do sometimes. So do you when you are near large objects, like Asteroids. The closer to drone bay, the more similar their route will be - look above. And remember to decrease ship velocity before - that is simply obvious. Drones are Drones, targets painted as hostile are regarded as hostile. In many situations this seems stupid but in some missions, where the objective is to destroy hostile, but non aggressive targets, this makes sense. And so on... Drones are like any other flying object in this game, not killers with direct links to our brain - they need guidance - a few mouseclicks will settle all. I, for one would love that direct link, but that would not be fair. Comments are very welcome You're wrong, I'd respond to all your points, but Babelfish is having a hard time decoding your gibberish.
Xascor	Posted - 2006.02.02 00:29:00 - [14] Originally by: Schnuur Xascor Was this in a belt ? Getting away from large items. i.e. Asteroids moves your drones to a point where new targets will be closer, than originally? Most problems are in belts - but then again that is where most gangs fail. It was in Deadspace missions. I paid close attention to 3 missions to see what target the drones would take next. There could have been some asteroids in them. Bottom line is if the AI chooses a non-combat structure that is over 30km away from me after orbiting a target that is no more than 9km away there is something wrong. Bad wrong. They seem to have an affection for structures over combat targets. You shouldn't have to worry about your drones agroing all groups of enemies in a mission designed to have multiple agro groups. It's different if you make the mistake to send your drones out close enough to agro another group. That's a tactical error. But to have an entire mission agro because your drones decided that an evil supply depot or depleted station battery is a more important target than the mass of frigates swarming you is frustrating. As for adapting, well I have. Everyone has to adapt to the poor drone AI or forget using them completely. The problem is their target selection is horrible. It needs to be changed or eliminated. They don't perform as they are designed to. Simple fixes to the AI, even making it simpler, would make drones perform just fine. Just because you can keep a problem from happening doesn't mean there is not problem to begin with. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Still working on
Altavius Pilot	Posted - 2006.02.02 01:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Schnuur Edited by: Schnuur on 01/02/2006 21:36:45 This topic has been raised so many times. Drones hump on their way back to ship Drones attack targets far away from ship Drones fly like 10 KMs an hour when attacking next target Drones stops just before entering Drone bay Drones dosn't attack aggressive targets, but buildings And so on Drones DOES hump, if they have the same route back to your ship. Just like any other vessel in EOL does. Try undocking and warp to the same target as another undocking ship. No, drones attack targets closest to them, not what appears to look closest to you, on your overview. Yes, they do sometimes. So do you when you are near large objects, like Asteroids. The closer to drone bay, the more similar their route will be - look above. And remember to decrease ship velocity before - that is simply obvious. Drones are Drones, targets painted as hostile are regarded as hostile. In many situations this seems stupid but in some missions, where the objective is to destroy hostile, but non aggressive targets, this makes sense. And so on... Drones are like any other flying object in this game, not killers with direct links to our brain - they need guidance - a few mouseclicks will settle all. I, for one would love that direct link, but that would not be fair. Comments are very welcome Are you a dev? Is that you tomB?
Schnuur	Posted - 2006.02.02 02:06:00 - [16] No I am not a Dev. Again - Drones behave just like any airborne player controlled object in this game: They are subject to all limitatations you and I are. Getting away from, Asteroids, cans, buildings etc takes time. If you do have the opinion, that this should not apply to drones, that is OK - but that does not make the AI faulty. Personally, as I am sure you have recognised by now, I wouldn't like that to happen - I regard them as normal EOL objects. And why are people so obsessed by this - if you don't like them - drop them. It is not because you have trained skills and they have gone worse - the complaints (same) have been there from the start - sorry for repeating - but so are you.
Don Elmus	Posted - 2006.02.02 02:07:00 - [17] Nimicus BAbelfish -resolved gibberish - you didn't
Rumse	Posted - 2006.02.02 02:12:00 - [18] Ha - I would like to say Schnuur you are an old fashion player. Everything in this game should do just like I wanted it to do - no matter it coincides with what all the other players think - don't waste time on - they will cry - everytime they loose ISk
Schnuur	Posted - 2006.02.02 02:24:00 - [19] Xshark - just saw your comment - this is so intelligent - thiswill really do something for this public available forum. Very productive.
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.02.02 02:27:00 - [20] "Drones DOES hump, if they have the same route back to your ship. Just like any other vessel in EOL does. Try undocking and warp to the same target as another undocking ship." Two players controlling their ships will normally have enough brains to spread apart enough to not get in way of each other. Drones don't have that common sense, they just keep humping. Thus, i don't see how this somehow debunks claim their AI sucks. If anything, this is confirmation the 'logic' controlling them is simplified to the point it causes problems.
Hait	Posted - 2006.02.02 02:39:00 - [21] The fact that these issues have been around for years dispite countless posts, bug reports, petitions etc surely only underlines the frustration felt. I'm new to drones, but I like them and happy to give the 1 on 1 support they appear to need. Just an additional factor in the multitasking of eve combat. However, if the current behaviour is how they are intented to be then some of the descriptions must to be changed. i.e. Max vel: Theoretically 1500m/s, but hard to duplicate. Orbital velocity: 1500m/s -> 400m/s depending if the mwd gets stuck. The drone skill description needs a rewrite to "1 extra drone controlled per level (by control we mean it will attempt to obey whilst giving the impression of not really wanting to)." And finally a warning "Drones are full of resentment towards their owners and if you take your eyes off them for a second they will do their best to get you killed."
Tribunal	Posted - 2006.02.02 04:27:00 - [22] This has to be a joke thread, right? Drones are so screwed up atm that it's not even slightly funny. Having to form a gang just to make drones act semi-stupid is ok? Seriously, put down the pipe.
Topodo	Posted - 2006.02.02 04:53:00 - [23] I hope this thread was a clever attempt to resurrect, yet again, the discussion of the continued problems with drones that we have yet to receive any word about, at all.
Tensa	Posted - 2006.02.02 05:51:00 - [24] Lol? Drones not bugged? I've had the problem when they get stuck coming back and (one time)went 3m/s!. There were no asteroids, no cans, no nothing....tell me why 2/5 get stuck like that when all the other 3 came back fine. Tell me why i can have 4 drones return to drone bay when commanded but then 1 drone slowly crawl right outside scoop range..so i stop and they still slowly crawl(this time alone with nothing else around) at 1-10m/s. Tell me why drones will start attacking a target 80km away, which is well out of their optimal. Sure this would be fine because they can't waste ammo, but for some reason they can't use mwd while they are firing. See, sure your argument would ALMOST make sense...if this happend to all my drones all the time, then it becomes normal behavior. But no, this happens to some of my drones most of the time. The AI is bugged. Period. ps. This is just a couple of the few drone problems.
Schnuur	Posted - 2006.02.02 08:11:00 - [25] So many different feedbacks. You, that do not share my viewpont are not crazy and I believe that I am not. Could drones be different in behaviour? I have always used Ogres (I & IIs) - not always smart (damagewise)- but I do.
Face Lifter	Posted - 2006.02.02 08:29:00 - [26] If CCP can't find any problems with drone AI, release the code and let us fix it :-)
kessah	Posted - 2006.02.02 08:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Bbllaarrgg Your wrong. I could post a well thought out reply as to why, but i'll just link you to this thread which points out whats wrong far more eloquently than i can, if you think these are not problems then i refer you to my 1st paragraph :P QFT --------------------------------------------------------
Schnuur	Posted - 2006.02.02 08:38:00 - [28] Originally by: Face Lifter If CCP can't find any problems with drone AI, release the code and let us fix it :-) If there is anything to be fixed - agree :O)
Schnuur	Posted - 2006.02.02 08:48:00 - [29] And the code for calculating/displaying drone stats - but that is another story.
Jarek Naumen	Posted - 2006.02.02 09:22:00 - [30] Originally by: Alex Harumichi So drones are fine, according to the OP? This probably explains why, when I tell my drones to return to drone bay, they crawl back to my ship (usually are ridiculously slow speed), and then stop 2km out. And I'm also told that getting stuck on each other is quite normal, and that we should not complain about it? Great, in that case why don't missiles get stuck on each other then and suddenly drop down to 200m/s speed? Idiot. /signed

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