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Serin Nadiir
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:45:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: smallgreenblur
Just a quickie, not got time to read the entire post sadly. I love nos on BS and cruisers, but i've found that DOT > nos on frigates. There is not much chance of draining eg a taranis or even a rifter with one nos before he overwhelmes your one armor repairer and kills you. With a bigger plate and maybe another nos, now you might be talking...
sgb
I'm getting tired of hearing malka say it so here we go: The posted setup isnt for fighting frigates. Thank you and goodnight...
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Ernest Graefenberg
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Posted - 2006.02.08 20:31:00 -
[62]
Holy crap on a fickle stick is your math off for the AC comparison. Even assuming I do what you did, a 200mm AC deals more than a 150mm at an arbitrary cutoff, unless you pick a point like 70 seconds, where the 200mm has just completed a reload.
Note that this isn't good practice though - for starters, lets take out the ammo type, because multiplying our results by 11 serves no practical purpose. Then, we take the time it takes each weapon to reach reload, find a common factor of the 2 different times (ie when both weapons would reload simultaneously), subtract the time taken for reloads from the figure for each weapon and divide that by the RoF and multiply it by the appropriate damage mod.
That gets us :
200mm 1.733
150mm 1.558
Or in other words, a sizeable 10% cleft in damage outputs.
(All of the above is likely to contain a typo or honest mistake or two, I'm in somewhat of a hurry. But it definitely represents an improvement over the absurd initial statement.)
Also, your ship fitting is great. But I would like to complain that it neither makes me coffee, takes down dreadnoughts or incorporates 3 extra midslots to jam, webify and disrupt without any tradeoffs. Shame on you, rookie.
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OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.02.08 20:34:00 -
[63]
Edited by: OrangeAfroMan on 08/02/2006 20:36:28
Originally by: Laythun
mate, any frig with decent skills can tank heavy missiles. so thats not at all a valid point, try testing against a turret based ship and you'll see the carnage.
The job sounds goond on paper but i just dont really believe this setup could tank say an omen with one med nos and pulse lasers.
im quite happy to test but i just think this is a suicide run against pilots who are skilled and a decennt fight against the unskilled
Did you even read? If it werent for missles and drones this setup WOULDNT EVEN NEED AT TANK! Its DESIGNED to fight against gun ships, the tanking is to counter the only thing taht CAN hit, missles and drones, so a pure turret ship is cake. He also set it up so his cap can tank one medium nos aswell.
And the idea behind putting a nos on a frig typically is to keep your own sh*t running, not to drain anything, especially not a cruiser+.
Originally by: person above
Holy crap on a fickle stick is your math off for the AC comparison. Even assuming I do what you did, a 200mm AC deals more than a 150mm at an arbitrary cutoff, unless you pick a point like 70 seconds, where the 200mm has just completed a reload.
You do realize that it usually takes at least 2 or more reloads to kill a cruiser/BC in a frigate especially w/o damage bonuses on the ship. This time span is far from arbitrary, in fact the fight is more likely to last over 2 minutes, further increasing the rift in damage between 150s and 200s in the 150s favor.
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.02.08 20:37:00 -
[64]
Originally by: idiot 1
I pointed out in my first post:
Works well against inexperinced players.
Won't work at all against pilots that know what to do.
A cruiser with web, will give almost any frig a hard time.
And fitting your ship for a specific task is beeing tactical. But you cant fit for all circumstances i know that. But you can try and minimise the risks of beeing killed. So try and read my first post before you flame me you moron. Have a nice day.
How would you fit it better? You get webbed you die. You go long range you gimp your DPS. You tank better you die later than sooner. There is nothing you can do. There is no point in your posts other than flaming him. Why are you still posting I have no clue. Yes we know "experience" players in anti-frig style ships can kill this setup AS ANY OTHER Setup with this ship, so why are you flamming him. So go away?
Originally by: idiot 2
I'll go attack someone with miner IIs and use 'tactics', or how about attacking a frigate with 1400s at 5km? Neutral. Tactics means applying the correct setup and resources in the appropriate situation. Therefore people do win because of thier setups.
Or were you one of those kids that kept trying to fit the square peg in the round hole?
Yes mocking me will help your reply. Will tacics help you hit with 1400's at 5km vs a Frig? Yes... If you know that your 1400's wont hit the target then you must use your brain and decide how you can kill the target in that current situtation. It's not your setup it's your tactics and experience. Otherwise you end up like the wombats and die because you sat there with your 1400's saying "Damn I give up I can't hit the target".
Tactics means everything to a setup. It's not the setup that wins the fights. It's the player. If you havn't learned that then don't post on pvp or on setups with tactic usages. Only you put yourself in a position to be ganked. Only you put yourself in a position as a frig 5km away from your big guns. It's your stupidity if you die not theres. Quit talking, I crush you with my wallet.
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Psycarne
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Posted - 2006.02.08 20:54:00 -
[65]
You just reiterated what I said you complete clown. You can't hit them at 5km with 1400s because you have the wrong setup for that situation.
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Order of the Wombles: Recycling those untidy modules on your ship.
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Nazzerin
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Posted - 2006.02.08 21:00:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri
Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 08/02/2006 20:40:18
Originally by: idiot 1
I pointed out in my first post:
Works well against inexperinced players.
Won't work at all against pilots that know what to do.
A cruiser with web, will give almost any frig a hard time.
And fitting your ship for a specific task is beeing tactical. But you cant fit for all circumstances i know that. But you can try and minimise the risks of beeing killed. So try and read my first post before you flame me you moron. Have a nice day.
How would you fit it better? You get webbed you die. You go long range you gimp your DPS. You tank better you die later than sooner. There is nothing you can do. There is no point in your posts other than flaming him. Why are you still posting I have no clue. Yes we know "experience" players in anti-frig style ships can kill this setup AS ANY OTHER Setup with this ship, so why are you flamming him. So go away?
Originally by: idiot 2
I'll go attack someone with miner IIs and use 'tactics', or how about attacking a frigate with 1400s at 5km? Neutral. Tactics means applying the correct setup and resources in the appropriate situation. Therefore people do win because of thier setups.
Or were you one of those kids that kept trying to fit the square peg in the round hole?
Yes mocking me will help your reply. Will tacics help you hit with 1400's at 5km vs a Frig? Yes... If you know that your 1400's wont hit the target then you must use your brain and decide how you can kill the target in that current situtation. It's not your setup it's your tactics and experience. Otherwise you end up like the wombles and die because you sat there with your 1400's saying "Damn I give up I can't hit the target".
Tactics means everything to a setup. It's not the setup that wins the fights. It's the player. If you havn't learned that then don't post on pvp or on setups with tactic usages. Only you put yourself in a position to be ganked. Only you put yourself in a position as a frig 5km away from your big guns. It's your stupidity if you die not theres. Quit talking, I crush you with my wallet.
Do you actually play this game, or are you as clueless as you seems to be? Any way, i said that an experienced player would kill him. Never said setup against frigs, i said experienced player. And again the setup you use is a large part of the tactic involved in killing another ship. But i guess you can kill another pilot by jumping in to a shuttle and go up to the persons ship and say i got tactics die please, and they do. If you can do that i salute you. If not well i guess i was right and you were wrong.
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.02.08 21:01:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 08/02/2006 21:02:41
Originally by: Psycarne
You just reiterated what I said you complete clown. You can't hit them at 5km with 1400s because you have the wrong setup for that situation.
My dear god how can people be this slow. Let me break it down for you simple one.
If you put yourself in a position to have a frigate 5km away from your 1400's which you obviously shown is very bad. Then it's your tactics that are weak. You put yourself in a position to not hit the target. Yes we know your SETUP wont hit the target. YES that is obvious. But your tactics lead you to the point you're in. It's your fault if you get put in the position to make your SETUP NOT HIT THE TARGET.
So that is how tactics plays a part in your setup. That's why people with bought elite characters of 20million skillpoint and a mimiced setup from the forums will still die to the hands of 10million skillpoints, experience, and tactics.
That is why my cheetah still kills interceptors. Tactics. Straight up fights I die. Yet tactics helps me do something much more with that ship. Think, it helps. Stop posting please. It shows your ignorance.
Quote:
Do you actually play this game, or are you as clueless as you seems to be? Any way, i said that an experienced player would kill him. Never said setup against frigs, i said experienced player. And again the setup you use is a large part of the tactic involved in killing another ship. But i guess you can kill another pilot by jumping in to a shuttle and go up to the persons ship and say i got tactics die please, and they do. If you can do that i salute you. If not well i guess i was right and you were wrong.
Ok experience player will kill any setup? Ok... Why are you telling him that. I believe he knows that. How is that helping the post at all? Any experience player will pop any of your frig setups. Should I remind you? Idiots I swear
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Psycarne
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Posted - 2006.02.08 21:07:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri
Edited by: Famine Aligher''ri on 08/02/2006 21:02:41
Originally by: Psycarne
You just reiterated what I said you complete clown. You can't hit them at 5km with 1400s because you have the wrong setup for that situation.
My dear god how can people be this slow. Let me break it down for you simple one.
If you put yourself in a position to have a frigate 5km away from your 1400's which you obviously shown is very bad. Then it's your tactics that are weak. You put yourself in a position to not hit the target. Yes we know your SETUP wont hit the target. YES that is obvious. But your tactics lead you to the point you're in. It's your fault if you get put in the position to make your SETUP NOT HIT THE TARGET.
So that is how tactics plays a part in your setup. That's why people with bought elite characters of 20million skillpoint and a mimiced setup from the forums will still die to the hands of 10million skillpoints, experience, and tactics.
That is why my cheetah still kills interceptors. Tactics. Straight up fights I die. Yet tactics helps me do something much more with that ship. Think, it helps. Stop posting please. It shows your ignorance.
Quote:
Do you actually play this game, or are you as clueless as you seems to be? Any way, i said that an experienced player would kill him. Never said setup against frigs, i said experienced player. And again the setup you use is a large part of the tactic involved in killing another ship. But i guess you can kill another pilot by jumping in to a shuttle and go up to the persons ship and say i got tactics die please, and they do. If you can do that i salute you. If not well i guess i was right and you were wrong.
Ok experience player will kill any setup? Ok... Why are you telling him that. I believe he knows that. How is that helping the post at all? Any experience player will pop any of your frig setups. Should I remind you? Idiots I swear
No **** you complete jackass, that's why I said you have to use the correct setup for the right situation. Are you ******* blind?
That's why having the right setup for the correct situation is an important tactical dicision.
Utter utter bafoon.
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Order of the Wombles: Recycling those untidy modules on your ship.
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OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.02.08 21:08:00 -
[69]
Edited by: OrangeAfroMan on 08/02/2006 21:10:01
Look at what famine is saying and then imagine that coming from my mouth because it is but my fingers ran out of cap, unlike this punisher setup.
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.02.08 21:12:00 -
[70]
Quote:
No **** you complete jackass, that's why I said you have to use the correct setup for the right situation. Are you ******* blind?
That's why having the right setup for the correct situation is an important tactical dicision.
Utter utter bafoon.
You can use the correct setup and still lose because of your tactics. Explained this already. Why is it to hard to understand this.
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Psycarne
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Posted - 2006.02.08 21:41:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Psycarne on 08/02/2006 21:42:31
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri
Quote:
No **** you complete jackass, that's why I said you have to use the correct setup for the right situation. Are you ******* blind?
That's why having the right setup for the correct situation is an important tactical dicision.
Utter utter bafoon.
You can use the correct setup and still lose because of your tactics. Explained this already. Why is it to hard to understand this.
I don't disagree.
I was just saying that using the correct setup for a situation, or you could say putting your setup in the correct situation - is the most important tactical decision. It dosen't matter how much experiance you have you can't kill someone with miner IIs. This is pretty what tactics means if you read the Art of War, applying the correct amount of force in the correct place.
If you attack someone close range with a long range setup and they are setup for close range, unless you are also setup to counter them at close range, or setup to run away you will die 100% of the time (providing your opponent isn't an idiot).
But I never said that you can't implement the correct setup for a situation badly and still lose. Why do you get so defensive?
EDIT: And I am not an "inexperianced pilot" I have been playing since July 2003.
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Order of the Wombles: Recycling those untidy modules on your ship.
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Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2006.02.08 21:57:00 -
[72]
You can't use miner II's as an example of why your tactical exp wont play a part in your overall win. It's not the same and I have no clue why you're using it other than the fact it's just wrong.
Just don't know why you guys are saying simple stuff like "this loses to experience players". Yeah cool, you might as well throw that in every setup thread. So whatever beef you have with the OP leave it out the thread. I believe that falls under common sense.
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Kitty O'Shay
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Posted - 2006.02.08 21:58:00 -
[73]
It's a ship setup thread, don't flame. The end result of all this has caused a player to leave the game. All because someone couldn't keep in-game matters in-game.
Sad.
Here's Malka's statement:
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My drones are about as smart as a smartbomb. |
Serin Nadiir
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Posted - 2006.02.08 22:21:00 -
[74]
Psy, what famine is trying to say is that if you are ever actually 5km away from a frig with 1400s it's the result of a tactical blunder rather than a mistake on setup... The 1400 setup is probably just fine for big ships so the setup is good but the fact that you didn't warp away when you saw the frig or have antifrig support with you is a tacical error. You see what he's saying?
There's no need for all this hostility.
I see nothing wrong with this setup for it's proposed role. Obviously an experienced pilot will take it out, but the same could be said of any other frig I can think of in the same fight. This makes me question Malka's choice of ship rather than how it was set-up which I find little problem with.
Ok people?
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Psycarne
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Posted - 2006.02.08 22:25:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri
You can't use miner II's as an example of why your tactical exp wont play a part in your overall win. It's not the same and I have no clue why you're using it other than the fact it's just wrong.
Just don't know why you guys are saying simple stuff like "this loses to experience players". Yeah cool, you might as well throw that in every setup thread. So whatever beef you have with the OP leave it out the thread. I believe that falls under common sense.
Using miner IIs in pvp is analogous to how using the completely wrong setup for a situation - like the long range/short range example I gave will always fail. Which is why I used it as an example, I wasn't being entirely literal. Don't blow things out of proportion.
As for Malka. If she was more concerned about what people thought about her setups, and whether people flamed her on the forum, than actually playing the game then she clearly was more interested in being a forum warrior than anything. Who gives a damn what people think about you if can blow things up? 
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Order of the Wombles: Recycling those untidy modules on your ship.
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OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.02.09 00:34:00 -
[76]
Originally by: jackass
As for Malka. If she was more concerned about what people thought about her setups, and whether people flamed her on the forum, than actually playing the game then she clearly was more interested in being a forum warrior than anything. Who gives a damn what people think about you if can blow things up?
Apparently you failed to read yet again, the reason Malka quit is someone CALLED HER HOUSE from these forums to continue the flaming and make threats.
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Ernest Graefenberg
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Posted - 2006.02.09 01:19:00 -
[77]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
You do realize that it usually takes at least 2 or more reloads to kill a cruiser/BC in a frigate especially w/o damage bonuses on the ship. This time span is far from arbitrary, in fact the fight is more likely to last over 2 minutes, further increasing the rift in damage between 150s and 200s in the 150s favor.
For someone harping on reading comprehension so much, you sure have plenty of trouble with it. The example made by the OP assumes that the 150mm never has to reload - in which case it has an extremely marginally better dps than a 200mm. My point is once they both have to reload, the 200mm wins out with ease.
You could at least have gone through the trouble and pointed out the glaring flaw in the logic of the way I attempted to solve the problem before ejaculating over it with your awesome anecdotal experience, buddy.
(Which for the record was an oversight in accounting for decreased amounts of reloads on the 150mm - the real number for the 150mm is approx. 1.65 damage mod dealt per second over a prolonged period of time ending with an empty clip, still a good step below the 1.73 of the 200mm.)
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Serin Nadiir
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Posted - 2006.02.09 04:27:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Serin Nadiir on 09/02/2006 04:31:12
Edited by: Serin Nadiir on 09/02/2006 04:29:43
Originally by: Psycarne
Yes, it is a tactical error because it is the wrong setup to deal with frigates. That is what I have been trying to say.
I do not recall saying "There is such a thing as a magic setup with no weaknesses that you can take into any situation, and everyone will instantly explode and you win".
Now we are just talking about semantics yey. I will not engage any further in this circular debate.
Ok I'm glad we seem to have reached a sort of agreement. Now let's go ahead and extend what we've learned to this thread. If someone posted this lovely hypothetical 1400 setup on the forums as a large ship ganker, one wouldn't flame the poster because the guns don't hit frigs. Because fighting frigs in it would be a tactical error not a setup mistake. That's the point people were trying to make.
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OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.02.09 06:17:00 -
[79]
But they did here, and I've seen it done elsewhere.
And actually over time the 200 still has to reload twice as often as a 150, 150 wins.
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Serin Nadiir
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Posted - 2006.02.09 18:47:00 -
[80]
Yes, exactly. I think the problem is that the difference between tactical limitations and setup limitations for (the late) Malka's intended prey is very slim.
It's a T1 frigate designed to kill cruiser setups that a frigate can actually kill 1vs1. It's actually more probable to have 1400s hitting frigs (to use that handy example) than to have a frig beat a well piloted cruiser with all the good anti-frig gear. The difference between prey and "Run away!" isn't immeadiately distinguishable by ship type.
One more way of putting it... Cruisers for a frig go into two categories; Ones you can kill and Ones you can't. Ordinally the first category is fairly small for a T1 frig as even cruisers not kitted for anti frig still usually have enough frig defense to beat them (Med Nos being the common one). Malka's design here expands the Can Kill category farther than any frig setup I've seen before. The fact that a sizable portion of cruiser pilots could still kill it doesn't neccessarily mean it's bad.
Of course at the end of the day you're still rushing towards cruisers in a T1 frig... Not the best survival strategy, but whatever. Malka seemed to enjoy it. 
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Yggr
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Posted - 2006.02.10 16:55:00 -
[81]
Malka - I'm sorry to hear you left EvE, and I'm especially sorry about the circumstances surrounding your (hopefully temporary) departure.
I have a question about your experimental setup.
What about switching one of the 200mm AutoCannons with a Medium Pulse Laser? It seems to fit the powergrid... and it might be helpful with a microwave crystal to pick off pesky drones.
If you still read the forums, I'd love to hear your input!
Yours, until you return,
Yggr
-----
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
[TomB,] Were you true to the name [Tom Bombadil], dancing around the woods singing (and killing anything that moved) without a care in the world?
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2006.02.10 17:08:00 -
[82]
The problem with this setup is that it was designed and built to kill noobs and morons.
You design ships around killing smart people and you'll be able to easily handle noobs and morons. You design ships around killing noobs and morons and you wont even put up a fight against smart people.
Thats why this is a bad setup. It may be good at what it does, but that doesnt make it a good setup.
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Derailing threads with logic since 1992 |
Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2006.02.10 17:23:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Guardian Alpha on 10/02/2006 17:23:21
Originally by: Blind Fear
The problem with this setup is that it was designed and built to kill noobs and morons.
And fly under cruiser-class guns, and tank heavy missiles, and tank a heavy nos, and tank light drones. Sounds a whole lot more like it's meant to kill combatants than miners. Quote:
Thats why this is a bad setup. It may be good at what it does, but that doesnt make it a good setup.
If something is good at the role it is meant to preform, then it's a good setup for that role. You need to remember your place.
This is an affordable tech 1 frigate that is capable of tanking multiple common threats to frigates and still being able to engage most of them. Will it fall apart to two medium nosses or one heavy nos? Of course. Will it fall apart to one webifier and close-range weapons? Of course. That is because it is still a tech 1 frigate and thus isn't meant to engage situations that a tech 2 or simply a larger class ship could survive against.
I've used this setup in the field and I'm amazed at the flexability it has. Many situations that would cream a normal frigate pilot (yes, against veteran PvPers) doesn't stop this one from entering the engagement. It's a sound setup that, as you stated, does the job it is meant to do well: Anti-cruiser/battlecruiser with medium nos/drone/missile/large-gun defensive measures.
If that works, then it isn't a bad setup. It's a setup you disagree with.
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"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."
- Charles Darwin |
Blind Fear
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Posted - 2006.02.10 17:29:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Blind Fear on 10/02/2006 17:29:32
Originally by: Guardian Alpha
Edited by: Guardian Alpha on 10/02/2006 17:23:21
Originally by: Blind Fear
The problem with this setup is that it was designed and built to kill noobs and morons.
And fly under cruiser-class guns, and tank heavy missiles, and tank a heavy nos, and tank light drones. Sounds a whole lot more like it's meant to kill combatants than miners.
Sounds like noobs and morons to me. Anyone with any experience whatsoever will crush it using standard NPC setups.
Yes, its a setup that kills noobs and morons. Just because its good at that doesnt mean its a good setup. My role can be 'go get shot in the face and die', and I can go fit something out to very successfully fufill that role. Does that make my 'shot in a face and died' setup good? Of course not.
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Derailing threads with logic since 1992 |
Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2006.02.10 17:33:00 -
[85]
Quote:
Sounds like noobs and morons to me. Anyone with any experience whatsoever will crush it using standard NPC setups.
Okay, tell you what.
Keep your theory of this frigates capability (which you haven't tested, just looked at) and everyone on this thread and ingame that has tested it, reporting it to work wonders, will disagree with you. Of course, everyone in the game must be a complete rookie in comparison to your piloting skills, right?
Disagree, but explain why you disagree. Otherwise you are just a troll and not something this forum needs.
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"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."
- Charles Darwin |
Ernest Graefenberg
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Posted - 2006.02.10 17:46:00 -
[86]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
But they did here, and I've seen it done elsewhere.
And actually over time the 200 still has to reload twice as often as a 150, 150 wins.
Why are you blissfully walking past my attempts (albeit the last 2 ones were rushed, this one is comprehensive and finally error free) to demonstrate DPS over extensive periods of time with reloads factored in? This entire sidebar is about reloading you twit. Also the 200mm reloads 1.8 times more than the 150mm, at least try to get that right before you waste my time yet again.
1.95 / 11 * 10 = 1.77 / 2.5 = 0.708
1.65 / 19 * 18 = 1.56 / 2.25 = 0.693
2.2% in favor of the 200mm. Coupled with the range bonus that makes it better for taking down large targets - whereas vs small ones it would be dependent on wether they have more or less than 4000 effective hitpoints (approximate damage of 3x 200mm AC in one clip with skills - with gyros and more skills the number could be around 5-6k) or not. So if you really want to find a niche where the 150mm could marginally outperform, its vs an Assault Frigate. Outside of that, in <4-6k hp engagements (other small ships) the 200mm owns the pants off the 150mm, and outperforms the 150mm just barely everywhere else.
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Mikha'il Pelegius
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Posted - 2006.02.10 17:55:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
Note that this isn't good practice though - for starters, lets take out the ammo type, because multiplying our results by 11 serves no practical purpose.
What are you talking about? The ammo is incredibly important since it represents a difference of DoT to RoF. Even with the higher damage output of the 200mm, due to it's slower refire rate and the more times it requires a reload, the 150mms are going to do similar damage (10% less) but at a much faster rate of fire. Quote:
to demonstrate DPS over extensive periods of time with reloads factored in? This entire sidebar is about reloading you twit.
That math was already solved in the first mathamatical checks by Malka. Your math isn't new, and it's lacking the damage factor to compare the damage per shot and the rate of fire over time. Quote:
Coupled with the range bonus that makes it better for taking down large targets
Range bonus? This is a short-range ship, not a medium-range ship. The fall off of both weaponry is very similar and isn't an issue because of the additional tracking of the 150mms.
Your math is correct, but it's following the wrong formula and doesn't apply here.
Admiral Mikha'il Pelegius
CEO Genesis Navy, 21st fleet of the Imperial Navy
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Weirda
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Posted - 2006.02.10 18:11:00 -
[88]
why everyone so hostile? it a ship setup?! 
for those who have such problem with it - don't use it. weirda think it crap - but that not the way weirda operate... so what! at least it not one of those cookie cutter setup that everyone flame until someone "famous" bless it... 
if you like a setup and it suit you style - use it... improve it... improve you abilities.
if you don't like it or it don't fit you style... use something that does. 
only a fool think they are 'uber'. 
__
Weirda
...balanced NOS change...
Fix Assault Ship 4th Bonus and More!
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Guardian Alpha
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Posted - 2006.02.10 18:19:00 -
[89]
Only a 24.2 damage difference in a five minute time period? Granted skills would make that larger (gyros don't count on this setup) but I wonder if that small of an amount is worth the additional powergrid? Some math on the 25% bonus to damage just from the projectiles skill alone.
1.925 + 25% = 2.40625 damage mod for the 200mms
1.65 + 25% = 2.0625 damage mod for the 150mms
2.40625 x 11 (emp s) = 26.46875 damage a shot for 200mms
1.65 x 11 (emp s) = 22.6875 damage a shot for 150mms
200mm = 26.46875 damage a shot
200mm = 24 shots in 60 seconds
200mm = 40 ammo clip
200mm = 100 seconds before the clip runs out
150mm = 22.6875 damage a shot
150mm = 27 shots in 60 seconds
150mm = 80 ammo clip
150mm = 180 seconds before the clip runs out
5 minute engagement = 300 seconds
300 / 110 (100 seconds of fire + 10 second reloading time) = 2.72 clips fired in 300 seconds for the 200mm
300 / 190 (180 seconds of fire + 10 second reloading time) = 1.57 clips fired in 300 seconds for the 150mm
40 x 2.72 = 108.8 rounds fired off in 300 seconds for the 200mm (reload times included already)
80 x 1.57 = 125.6 rounds fired off in 300 seconds for the 150mm (reload times included already)
108.8 x 26.46875 = 2879.8 damage in 300 seconds for the 200mm (reload times included already)
125.6 x 22.6875 = 2849.55 damage in 300 seconds for the 150mm (reload times included already)
Hm, even then it's still a damage difference of only 30.25 with projectile smalls to level 5. Guess it depends on if that tiny amount of damage difference is worth the less in tracking and powergrid.
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"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."
- Charles Darwin |
OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.02.10 18:21:00 -
[90]
Listen to Weirda, Weirda is smart
And about the 2.2% difference in damage - Meh. Thats not enough to justify the larger requirements and worse tracking IMO.
But that is of course just my opinion, flame away like you always do
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