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Wafflehead Hurricane Research 31	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:00:00 - [1] - Quote Contents 1. Bond Terms & Conditions 2. Explanation of Terms & Conditions 3. Public Information 4. Bond Purpose 5. Bond Risks 6. Exit Strategy 7. Investor Information 8. Investor List 9. Previous Completed Loans 10. Previous Investors 1. Bond Terms & Conditions Total Bond Size: 15B (15 Billion) Rate: 10% Bonds: 1B (1 Billion) ISK each (no max purchase) Collateral: None Start Date: 24 October, 2013* End Date: 24 November, 2013* Dates may change according to ISK receipt date 2. Explanation of Terms & Conditions* 15B ISK bond with 10% interest paid per month. 15 bonds at 1B each No collateral: It simply is not feasible for me to provide a sizable portion of the principle without seriously disrupting my trading and, therefore, this is something that I will not be offering. Audit: I have no intention to arrange one, however if this proves essential for investors confidence then we can discuss contacting a reputable auditor and having one performed. Interest: Will be paid at the end of the term within 24 hours of the end date. Pull-Out: If you wish to pull-out then the interest earned will be calculated on a daily basis and you will not receieve the full 10%. You must give 48 hours notice. 3. Public Information I would like to stay as transparent as possible. Alts: Dai007 (Main), Mattikus Saken (Production), Rex Anguine (Production), Doctor Salcazzis (Production) 4. Bond Purpose I am currently station trading with a NAV of around 40B, the bond funds will be injected straight into my trading operations and will allow me to expand into more buy orders & higher quanities which in return will lead to more profits. Buy low/sell high strategy with fast turnarounds. 5. Bond Risks Scam: This is something that will always popup, and there has been countless discussions about it. There is nothing I can do to absolutely assure you that this will not happen, all I can tell you is I am not interested in any scam attempt or rep grinding or anything of these sorts. Wardec: I will not be leaving the station to do anything. Public courier contracts are used to move any items. 6. Exit Strategy If anything was to go wrong then all buy orders will be cancelled and sell orders will be priority. All principal and interest will be returned as if the bond had completed. 7. Investor Information Investors may invest as much as they want, but with a minimum investment of 100M. Public investors please post here and declare your interest. Any silent investors please contact me via eve-mail 8. Investor List None 9. Previous Completed Loans: G£ö 12B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 8B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 4B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 2B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 2B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 1B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 1B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 1B @ 10% - 30 Days G£ö 1B @ 15% - 1 Month 10. Previous Investors GÇó Pinnel GÇó Kraillach GÇó Michelle P1H9A8N1 GÇó okoolos rimmer GÇó I Was There GÇó Plato Idari
Wafflehead Hurricane Research 31	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:01:00 - [2] - Quote Reserved.
X ATM092 Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 107	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:21:00 - [3] - Quote lol
Uppsy Daisy Perkone Caldari State 557	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:36:00 - [4] - Quote I take your lol and raise it two lols. - No clear strategy apart from 'station trading' - tick - No audit - tick - Ever increasing bonds used to finance previous bonds interest payments - tick Maybe investors will get lucky this time, but this ones gonna go 'boom' soon.
Wafflehead Hurricane Research 31	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:47:00 - [5] - Quote Uppsy Daisy wrote: I take your lol and raise it two lols. - No clear strategy apart from 'station trading' - tick - No audit - tick - Ever increasing bonds used to finance previous bonds interest payments - tick Maybe investors will get lucky this time, but this ones gonna go 'boom' soon. Strategy is clear - Buy low, sell high - Tick (Station trading is not complex and there is nothing more to a station trading strategy) Audit - What would an audit accomplish? You would be able to tell that I am actually a trader and discover what items I trade with?. I don't quite understand your last point, the previous loan has been completed & all principals & interest were paid out BEFORE this bond was offered. If any investor is genuinely interested then I can provide a report from Eve-Mogul.
Uppsy Daisy Perkone Caldari State 557	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:59:00 - [6] - Quote I forgot. No collateral - tick I place this post merely so that when this one runs off with your hard earned money I can come back, point my finger and say "I warned you!"...
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 1086	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:00:00 - [7] - Quote I don't know if somebody has asked this in any of your previous threads (I apologize if so) but could you tell us a few words about Hurricane Research? It doesn't seem to be a freshly created alt corp and I am a little curious how you ended up in control of it.
X ATM092 Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 107	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:02:00 - [8] - Quote His large point was referring to the fact that repaying 1.2b in interest a day before announcing that you want an additional 3b in investment is not actually indicative of trustworthiness. A cynical man might think that you repaid the 1.2b in interest as an expense to be offset against the 3b you wished to loan. Had you requested another 12b loan then you would have been taking a loss by being honourable and not stealing it. However if you successfully fill this 15b loan then the repayment will have not cost you 1.2b but rather gained you 1.8b.
Wafflehead Hurricane Research 31	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:08:00 - [9] - Quote Vera Algaert wrote: I don't know if somebody has asked this in any of your previous threads (I apologize if so) but could you tell us a few words about Hurricane Research? It doesn't seem to be a freshly created alt corp and I am a little curious how you ended up in control of it. Apologies I will update the Public Information section now. Hurricane Research was bought back on 21st September from the Sell Orders - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3631500 Grendell was used as a 3rd Party. All but Dai007 are members of that corp X ATM092 wrote: His large point was referring to the fact that repaying 1.2b in interest a day before announcing that you want an additional 3b in investment is not actually indicative of trustworthiness. A cynical man might think that you repaid the 1.2b in interest as an expense to be offset against the 3b you wished to loan. Had you requested another 12b loan then you would have been taking a loss by being honourable and not stealing it. However if you successfully fill this 15b loan then the repayment will have not cost you 1.2b but rather gained you 1.8b. 1.22B was paid out in interest. So with your logic I am taking a loss of 20M?. There is no loss, I made over 26B this month so 1.22B interest was taken out of the profits. Do you not understand this?. Uppsy Daisy wrote: I forgot. No collateral - tick I place this post merely so that when this one runs off with your hard earned money I can come back, point my finger and say "I warned you!"... As detailed in the bond offering, it would be stupid to offer collateral on a station trading operation. If i had 15B collateral I would just simply sell it. Common Sense - Not ticked
Silvetica Dian Manson Family Advent of Fate 230	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:29:00 - [10] - Quote apart from the pirate thread MD has the best stories. i am enjoying this one. The tengu guy was awesome and that guy that came back to the game after 9 months or so to repay his loan was amazing. i am keen to see the next episode of this story whoever turns out to be correct Marriage: The reason we build bars Galen Tyrol

X ATM092 Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 107	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:38:00 - [11] - Quote Waffle, you're not understanding. Try reading it again.
Wafflehead Hurricane Research 31	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:11:00 - [12] - Quote X ATM092 wrote: Waffle, you're not understanding. Try reading it again. I totally understand, the point is invalid. Why would I look to offset the interest paid-out in another loan/bond? It makes no sense. Again, the comments that have been raised by yourself and Uppsy Daisy have no weight or backing on your theories. My previous loans have always successfully finished with good profits and interest/principal has always been returned. I keep hearing the same comments - "XXX scammed so you will too". Also, why bother commenting if you don't get involved with investments?. What previous records do you have in market investments that gives you the ability to determine what is a 'safe' risk or not?
X ATM092 Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension 107	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:31:00 - [13] - Quote Consider yourself in the position where you're about to repay the 12b loan. You could keep the isk or you could be honourable. Keeping the isk is worth 13.2b (12+10%), being honourable is worth 0. There is a 13.2b difference here. However if the honourable decision of repaying the 13.2b leads to you being given a loan of 15b, which you could then steal, you could do it profitably for dishonourable motives. Imagine if you did no trading and this were all a giant rep grinding attempt. If you were to pay out 1.2b in interest then that would be a 1.2b loss, you would have 1.2b less in your wallet than you started with. However as long as you increased the size of the loan by more than that amount then you could offset the 1.2b you lost with the increased size of the eventual theft. Interestly enough every loan you have requested has increased in size by an amount greater than your interest amount. What this means is that while a loan is running the amount you are being trusted with is always greater than the amount you have paid out in interest to date. With this in mind I don't think your previous history in any way implies an honourable character, you could equally be motivated by profit. Consider the following. I promise to send someone 20m back if they first send me 10m. We do this, I am now down 10m from my starting isk. However the decision to do this can still be rationalised beyond keeping my promise if I believe that by doing it he will trust me with sums greater than 10m. If we then repeat it with 50m, for example, and I choose to keep the 50m then that 10m I lost by honouring my promise was actually an investment which repaid itself four times only. How might we distinguish your service, whereby we send you isk with no assurances and you return it +10%, from the many other gentlemen who offer a similar service in Jita local? If anything your rates are actually really low. I hear one gentleman will turn my 500m into 5b.
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 1086	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:23:00 - [14] - Quote You naughty person pretended to buy a ticket in your own lottery For the record could you confirm/deny whether Medgeth is just a friend or an alt?
Nanatoa 366	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:50:00 - [15] - Quote Wafflehead wrote: Audit - What would an audit accomplish? You would be able to tell that I am actually a trader and discover what items I trade with?. An audit would establish that you are actually trading, instead of just paying out interest to get bigger loans (until one is big enough). An audit would not prove that this is not a scam, it would simply prove that you're putting in proper effort. "Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011
okoolos rimmer Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 28	Posted - 2013.10.24 04:05:00 - [16] - Quote I have to say that I'm quite suprised that you run a scam lottery. This puts this loan in an entirely different light.
Wafflehead Hurricane Research 31	Posted - 2013.10.24 04:10:00 - [17] - Quote Medgeth is a RL friend, doesn't play a lot anymore. Haha from what i can recall the ticket buying was a mere bump for the lottery. As it was secured then I had no way to scam it. Eve-Mogul report would confirm that I am actually trading. I dont know who does audits that is still active enough to request one. Plus as you say it does nothing to prove its not a scam - which is what most players have a problem with.
Thoraemond Far Ranger 111	Posted - 2013.10.24 04:14:00 - [18] - Quote Wafflehead wrote: There is no loss, I made over 26B this month so 1.22B interest was taken out of the profits. So last month, you started with a NAV of about 23 billion and borrowed 12.2 billion (total about 35 billion) and made 26 billion with that, a return of roughly 70-odd % over a month. Seems okay. You claim your NAV is now about 40 billion. So this suggests that, even without borrowing, you get a return of something like 28 billion over the next month, if you maintain a similar rate of return from last month to this. So at this point, borrowing 15 billion ISK for a month advances your operation to a size it will reach anyhow in a couple of weeks. A two-week difference like that can be quite meaningful at the start of a trading career when the cost of a PLEX or two for your accounts is eating up a lot of your gross, but at this point, it's not clear why this is important. It seems like a bit of a hassle to borrow that ISK from the public when you'll likely hit the same point in your own NAV in a fortnight anyhow. Wafflehead wrote: Common Sense - Not ticked Agreed, though perhaps not in the way you mean.
Wafflehead Hurricane Research 31	Posted - 2013.10.24 04:21:00 - [19] - Quote Thoraemond wrote: Wafflehead wrote: There is no loss, I made over 26B this month so 1.22B interest was taken out of the profits. So last month, you started with a NAV of about 23 billion and borrowed 12.2 billion (total about 35 billion) and made 26 billion with that, a return of roughly 70-odd % over a month. Seems okay. You claim your NAV is now about 40 billion. So this suggests that, even without borrowing, you get a return of something like 28 billion over the next month, if you maintain a similar rate of return from last month to this. So at this point, borrowing 15 billion ISK for a month advances your operation to a size it will reach anyhow in a couple of weeks. A two-week difference like that can be quite meaningful at the start of a trading career when the cost of a PLEX or two for your accounts is eating up a lot of your gross, but at this point, it's not clear why this is important. It seems like a bit of a hassle to borrow that ISK from the public when you'll likely hit the same point in your own NAV in a fortnight Agreed and correct the investment would put me forward a couple of weeks. It just helps with adding more ISK to my current buy orders. With the 15B I will earn my profits faster, without it as you say I will still turn a decent profit. I need ISK to simply pump into my trade orders and for that I am offering a decent interest payout.
Setsune Rin Bite Me inc Bitten. 99	Posted - 2013.10.24 08:42:00 - [20] - Quote just get an audit and be done with it, saves you so much hassle i sincerely hope this blows up, a lessons needs to be taught to some people apparently.

Wafflehead Hurricane Research 31	Posted - 2013.10.24 08:46:00 - [21] - Quote Setsune Rin wrote: just get an audit and be done with it, saves you so much hassle i sincerely hope this blows up, a lessons needs to be taught to some people apparently. I have searched the forums and I cannot find any active audit services. Do you know of any? Edit: I have sent an email to Vaerah Vahrokha, as she did an audit on one of Rykker's bonds. An audit may be a waste of time, it is just going to confirm what you already know, I am a trader and some of my previous investors have noticed buying items off me from the market. I am happy to complete an audit if the price & terms are good, although I don't see it assuring anyone.
flakeys Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans 1552	Posted - 2013.10.24 15:32:00 - [22] - Quote Setsune Rin wrote: just get an audit and be done with it, saves you so much hassle i sincerely hope this blows up, a lessons needs to be taught to some people apparently. I agree , OP i will fill the remaining 13 B . Tell me when to send the isk. We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Wafflehead Hurricane Research 31	Posted - 2013.10.24 15:55:00 - [23] - Quote flakeys wrote: Setsune Rin wrote: just get an audit and be done with it, saves you so much hassle i sincerely hope this blows up, a lessons needs to be taught to some people apparently. I agree , OP i will fill the remaining 13 B . Tell me when to send the isk. Confirming 13B investment from flakeys. That makes the bond closed and started. Dates will stay the same - 24th November to finish
I Was There Scorpion Invest 98	Posted - 2013.10.24 17:02:00 - [24] - Quote It's all about riding a wave. Ride it when it's going, but don't be on it when it's cash-out time.
flakeys Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans 1552	Posted - 2013.10.24 17:10:00 - [25] - Quote I Was There wrote: It's all about riding a wave. Ride it when it's going, but don't be on it when it's cash-out time. Makes me think of that time my wife said the same thing then i cashed out before she was off the ride .... ahh good times those where ... these days i don't even get a chance to cash out We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Uppsy Daisy Perkone Caldari State 557	Posted - 2013.10.24 19:52:00 - [26] - Quote flakeys wrote: I Was There wrote: It's all about riding a wave. Ride it when it's going, but don't be on it when it's cash-out time. Makes me think of that time my wife said the same thing then i cashed out before she was off the ride .... ahh good times those where ... these days i don't even get a chance to cash out Brightened my day..
I Was There Scorpion Invest xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx 98	Posted - 2013.10.25 09:56:00 - [27] - Quote During the 12,2b loan you were all blaming him for rep-grinding. I was scared that he'd decide to cash-out on that on.
Wafflehead Hurricane Research 31	Posted - 2013.10.25 10:48:00 - [28] - Quote I Was There wrote: During the 12,2b loan you were all blaming him for rep-grinding. I was scared that he'd decide to cash-out on that on. I know its hard to believe but i have no intention to 'cash-out'. If i had collateral that I wasn't using then I would offer it, but all my ISK is liquid involved in trading.
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 4455	Posted - 2013.10.25 13:20:00 - [29] - Quote Wafflehead wrote: I know its hard to believe but i have no intention to 'cash-out'. If i had collateral that I wasn't using then I would offer it, but all my ISK is liquid involved in trading. I did not want to influence the bond funds gathering outcome, now that it's started I may confirm that I got asked for an audit so there has been some goodwill involved. I can't perform audits at the moment, I will be absurdly busy IRL till March 2014. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Lord Wickham Cult of War University Cult of War 17	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:10:00 - [30] - Quote i ran 20bil no collateral bonds for months on end sometimes people just need a cash boost until they can self sustain 10-20bil cashflows in and out without worrying about selling assets to cover it. its hard to gain trust nowadays isk means so little to so many people.



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