Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Eyana Starstruck
Samostalna Zanatska Radnja Devil Divided By Zero
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 18:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
This thing has been explain over and over and over again, sadly until people learn how to use search function of both forums and google or bing or yahoo or w/e your pref search engine is these topics will still get started over again...
To get back to the topic, changes are welcome in my opinion and require people to be present and active, lets not forget the old days where cap stable double rep domies would just go into the mission, pop drones out and go eat lunch or something to return to all npc's dead and mission completed. Similar to afk mining... Anyhow the changes that have been made affect only elite npc's and only they are affected by agro changing ability. What that means is that normal npc's will not ever change agro from you to your drones. Learn the names of elite type npcs and deal with them 1st or use the very simple tactic of poping drones out, wait for agro shift, bring them back in, wait for the agro to come back to you and then resend your drones and you have around 2-3 mins before they change agro back again... And where did you get that idea that sentries arent affected by agro shifts? I have had my sentries targeted numerous times in some missions by elite destroyers and cruisers...
People have suggested using sentries for the number of reasons and the most important one is they dont have to fly and orbit their target to be able to do damage. Sending drones to 50-70km away is just plain dumb because of time lost and infectiveness. You came here for advice then accept what people are telling you. If you want to be afk and do stuff in eve then reroll to a miner.
And why in this golden age of domi mission running boats with mjd's would you still be using a myrm... But it's your choice, you can do w/e you like to do with your toons. |
Froggy Storm
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
108
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 00:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
I must dispute the claim that the agro mechanics have really made that much difference to the afk drone boat ideals. It just moved them out of L4s and into anoms. Add that to the fact that null anoms have always been more valuable than L4's I don't see where it was such a bad thing. Now those who afk are putting there ships at risk to be in space where they can be found and shot instead of 'safe' hisec.
Also, something to keep in mind for drone survivability and DPS is boosting the drone speed. With the bonus from the Ishtar and a drone nav heavies blap elite frigs (and nearly the elite cruisers) from anoms. I can't recall anything except the occasional spider drone being faster or tougher than those in L4s. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
128
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 01:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
Vincent Wright wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Vincent Wright wrote:as i said, pulling back from 50-20km once u see a drone get a dent in its shield does not save it in a L4 combat situation, most of the times. I think I see the problem. please describe what you see I see someone trying to use a close range weapon system at long range. |
Thaddeus Eggeras
TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
55
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 01:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
You can still do L4s with a drone boat. I use a RS, I just use sentries till they get within 10km then I change to scouts or med drones depending on what is attacking me within 10km. As long as you use them within 10km you can always get them in before they pop (if you are watching what is going on) I get side tracked kinda easy in PvE so sometimes loose them because I'm watching Netflixs or osmething else on my other screen haha. Drone boats aren't dead, just need to be more aware of what is going on. Good lock and keep the drone boats alive! |
Meyr
SiN Corp
75
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 05:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
Level 4's with a standard T2 tank/Meta guns-fit Myrmidon or Dominix are completely doable, no faction-fit stuff necessary. Heck, I've run some in a Vexor, just to prove it could be done. Your ship choice and fit choice, up to a certain level of efficiency (and a rather high one, at that, to be honest), really makes not much of a difference. Thus endeth the 'my fit ++ber!' portion of this discussion.
NPC aggro on drones has become a major issue, to the point where Sentry Drones V is now considered almost mandatory. That said, 4 (Myrm) or 5 (the rest) T1 sentries are completely viable at SD IV. The only time I use heavies any more is during Angel missions, due to their explosive weakness and tendency to orbit at close range. Everything else is killed either with Garde's, Wardens (they seem to have received a stealth tracking buff somewhere, they work great down to about 25 KM now), and mediums or lights, but only inside 10 KM. Anything further out, and even with Gal Cruiser/BC/BS V, and Drone Durability V, your drones will die before you can recall them. Even non-webbing rats will web your drones, and, when that happens, I hope you brought spares.
I use target painters on all of my mission ships, as well as guns, I have just over 16.5 million skill points in Drones, all of the Gal ship skills to V, and I STILL can't keep Hobgoblin II's alive @ 15 KM reliably, much less Hammerheads or Ogres. For now, and the foreseeable future, until the long-promised revamp of Drones occurs (probably in 2015, I'd imagine), sentries will be the weapon of choice for any range past 15 KM. |
WcS SaRRiN
Hoplites
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 06:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
Hey
I also run lvl 4's and only use drone boats these days as I get such high DPS. I use mainly Ishtar's and Gila's. They give me around 900 DPS with Garde 2's @ around 55k for the gila and 65k Ishtar. The bonuses on the Ishtar are great for heavy drones and sentry for both tracking and damage
And sitting at 50k from the closest target and popping them as they get closer is easy enough. I sit stationary with the drones 1000m away and use a Shield rep on each drone as it takes agro. If they start taking too much damage and risk loss I scoop it and release another. With both ships having 375-400 m3 drone bays there is no shortage of room. I use Hammer head 2 also for close in frigs etc if I need to but if they take damage just abandon them. they stop getting agro and again release another. use turrets or light t2 missiles. once you are back in control reconnect to lost drones and recall. Also try using a shield drone. Shield/armour/salvage etc dont get incoming agro.
I use the same if I need to warp out in a hurry. abandon and reconnect when you return.
Of course if you only have room for 3 or 4 drones then this wont work really for you but you can abandon before loss. Mark/save position. warp out then warp back to 0m scoop and run if your that worried about losing them. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
622
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 11:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ogre II's are all you need for even elite frigs. Pop them out l, wait till frigs target them, pull them in and wait till you're retargetted. Pop Ogres out again as long as you don't get additional spawns you can AFK at this point.
My Ogres pop elite frigs in seconds even when orbiting. In unbonused ships it still works but takes a little longer. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
330
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 11:58:00 -
[38] - Quote
Eyana Starstruck wrote:This thing has been explain over and over and over again, sadly until people learn how to use search function of both forums and google or bing or yahoo or w/e your pref search engine is these topics will still get started over again...
To get back to the topic, changes are welcome in my opinion and require people to be present and active, lets not forget the old days where cap stable double rep domies would just go into the mission, pop drones out and go eat lunch or something to return to all npc's dead and mission completed. Similar to afk mining... Anyhow the changes that have been made affect only elite npc's and only they are affected by agro changing ability. What that means is that normal npc's will not ever change agro from you to your drones. Learn the names of elite type npcs and deal with them 1st or use the very simple tactic of poping drones out, wait for agro shift, bring them back in, wait for the agro to come back to you and then resend your drones and you have around 2-3 mins before they change agro back again... And where did you get that idea that sentries arent affected by agro shifts? I have had my sentries targeted numerous times in some missions by elite destroyers and cruisers...
People have suggested using sentries for the number of reasons and the most important one is they dont have to fly and orbit their target to be able to do damage. Sending drones to 50-70km away is just plain dumb because of time lost and infectiveness. You came here for advice then accept what people are telling you. If you want to be afk and do stuff in eve then reroll to a miner.
And why in this golden age of domi mission running boats with mjd's would you still be using a myrm... But it's your choice, you can do w/e you like to do with your toons.
They really haven't addressed the issues with Sentries that much. Recall, redeploy. Very easy to use when you park on them.
Using mobile drones means they are out there moving around and need to return when recalled so they get popped a lot easier but there are no small nor medium sentry drones for most smaller hulls.
Perhaps if they added a deploy delay - 1 minute stuck in space before you could recall them - add a downside to sentry use. That might address them but the rage quit threads would soar if they did that. Everything from carrier pilots on down would get hacked off if they didn't have a fast recovery method. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
425
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 13:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
It's not just the instant recall of sentries, it's that they can actually take some hits and they dont MWD back thereby adding sig bloom and taking even MORE damage.
Sentries, for PvE, are about right. Downsides, upsides: basically balanced. Other drones are thoroughly lackluster. It's a shame, I like them. |
Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
100
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 13:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:I see someone trying to use a close range weapon system at long range. Why should drones be a system used exclusively at short ranges? It makes sense when you talk about blasters and so for the simple reason they'll stop hitting past a certain point.
For drones this is a pretty bold statement to make considering they can fly out to 100km+ and shoot stuff there just as well as they would do 1km away. This 'weapon' system is effective at any range really. |
|
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
352
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 14:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
Vincent Wright wrote:
as i said, pulling back from 50-20km once u see a drone get a dent in its shield does not save it in a L4 combat situation, most of the times.
You shouldn't be sending drones that far away. If the target is 50km away, sentries can hit it easily. Mobile drones are for killing things close up. Lights are for killing frigates that close range before you can shoot them, mediums are for burning down cruisers, destroyers and bc's that try to fight close, and heavies are for those rare missions like AE that have close orbiting battleships.
Your failure to assess the situation properly and adapt is not CCPs fault. In the extraordinarily unlikely event that everything turns to shoot the same drone, and they all manage to get lucky and hit it, yes it will be destroyed. Tough. There is always an element of risk, even in something as easy and mind numbing as level 4 missions. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
425
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 14:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
No but the **** poor drone interface, **** poor and unreliable information available to the drone commander IS the responsibility of CCP.
Regularly I'll pull a drone in, it has a sliver of shield left. I relaunch later and all the armor is gone. The drone dropped off UI at full armor but somewhere it lost the lot.
Non sentry drones are terrible for PVE next to every other weapon system in terms of return over effort or reward over risk. Certainly one can adapt, simply don't use anything but sentries/point blank lights. I don't think a weapon system gathering dust is a good thing though. I direct you to my earlier point - that this character, as a mission toon, has all but abandoned drones because they're not worth the massive hassle for their DPS should speak volumes. Nobody, nobody min/maxes like mission bears and they are just NOT worth it.
I'd rather shoot lasers at angels. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
128
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 17:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
Aivo Dresden wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:I see someone trying to use a close range weapon system at long range. Why should drones be a system used exclusively at short ranges? It makes sense when you talk about blasters and so for the simple reason they'll stop hitting past a certain point. For drones this is a pretty bold statement to make considering they can fly out to 100km+ and shoot stuff there just as well as they would do 1km away. This 'weapon' system is effective at any range really. Because with the exception of sentries drones are designed to be a short range weapon system. Just because you "can" get scout drones out to 100km doesn't mean that you should. That's what sentry drones are for. Stop trying to use the wrong kind of drone for the situation.
If scout drones were truly effective at any range you wouldn't be complaining about them. Q.E.D. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
426
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 17:30:00 -
[44] - Quote
Sorry to point it out, but 15-30kms isnt exactly what I consider "long" range.
The 10-15km effective range of mobile drones is overly short. And scout drones are effective at any range, 10-15km/s warriors can cover distances fast (if you want an extreme), but they simply die to fast, too easily and without sufficient warning to the drone pilot to do anything about it, save not use them at all - which is hardly a solution. 100km is a bit silly yes - but it's just as silly as not being able to deploy a medium drone passed 10km unless you dont want it back.
The "go sentry or go home" approach is a bit disappointing. |
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
18
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 21:58:00 -
[45] - Quote
I have often thought a range increase is warranted for drones, while sticking to current orbit range. That coupled with a real speed increase would make for some balance. Of course drones could use a little more options as a weapon system.
Like: Setting them to attack the next target before current target is destroyed, so you don't lose dps to 1 sec server ticks. So 2 targets, first and follow up.
Sentries I've always felt need to be retractable form a further range. |
Drake Doe
Flatulaction
295
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 22:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Vincent Wright wrote:Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Vincent Wright wrote:as i said, pulling back from 50-20km once u see a drone get a dent in its shield does not save it in a L4 combat situation, most of the times. I think I see the problem. please describe what you see I see someone trying to use a close range weapon system at long range. That explains why they get the short range of 40km with basic skills. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |
Kosetzu
S1lver Flame
82
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 22:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
Soo... Because you refuse to watch your drones you think the game mechanics are bad?
I have not lost a single drone in missions after the change, because I watch for when they stop shooting ME, and pull drones back in and relaunch them once the aggro is back on me again. Even with ships that relies on drones alone for damage and uses to EWAR I have no real difficulty with this.
If you send your drones out 70km to pick off a target then of course it may die on the return trip, but that is a piloting error, not bad mechanics. Light drones will almost never get targeted by cruisers and up, so make them chew through the closest frigates and then swap them with mediums and repeat that for cruisers if they are still alive. I have no problems with sending drones to 50km and out without loosing them, but all the small ships you want to kill will come flying straight at you and orbit within 10km so your drones doesn't need to travel all over the place to kill them, or return to the dronebay.
I agree the delay in drone actions and health displays should be worked on, but I still think that if you can't manage your drones now, why would it be all that different if it reacted quicker? Just go use Auto-Target missiles if you find it too much work to manage what you send your drones after, and have smartbombs against frigates. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
426
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 11:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
Betting you're using sentries.
If you're not, then well played (though I have a hard time believing you as I tried to make them work and watched them with enough OCD I was basically twitch gaming and when a pack of elites webbed one, there's nothing can save it. But maybe you're the luckiest player in New Eden, or hardly use them.). You can't disagree non sentries are remotely worth the trouble I don't think.
I'm well aware of when I lose drones because not paying attention (usually drunk/marketeering) and when I lose drones because there was nothing I can do. I know this because when I deploy, sorry, deployED non sentries I watched them like a hawk.
These days it's sentries/precision cruises/blap at range. Less hassle, less drama more cost efficient. I can quite honestly day they could remove the drone bay on my CNR/Mach and I'd not notice. |
Kaelnor Heidan
Supermassive Singularity
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 12:10:00 -
[49] - Quote
Yes, drones are somewhat useable. That doesn't mean they are not a pita.
Elite frigates ? Hope you have 125m3 drone bay of hobgoblins.
With all these threads about drones, CCP is aware that drones need a serious overhaul but it would take an entire "expansion" worth of content. |
Skeln Thargensen
Alpha Sperglords
257
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 14:00:00 -
[50] - Quote
As said previously, faction sentries are viable until you can afford T2.
and since you're in a myrmidon, you're on the way to dominix already, the entry level BS drone platform. slap a MJD and all the drone mods on it (omnis may not be crucial anymore, i heard) and you can blap everything from 100km away. keep lights to kill any frigates or spider drones that get close. if things get to hot MJD away and repeat.
that's the way. freelance space bum |
|
Vincent Wright
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 14:04:00 -
[51] - Quote
There is nothing new to add here, everything has been said, all the info and logic is there... For those actually addressing the subject: Thx for adding to the subject :)
P.S.: I was never asking for advice, thank you |
Desudes
The Scope Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 14:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
Wrong ship/fit for the job at hand, simple as that. Drone aggro changes was needed, even if I don't like them... It makes drone boats have to pay attention without making them unviable, like other weapon systems.
I use lights and sentries constantly,perfectly viable. Stop sucking :/ Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu? |
Vincent Wright
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 15:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
Desudes wrote:Wrong ship/fit for the job at hand, simple as that. Drone aggro changes was needed, even if I don't like them... It makes drone boats have to pay attention without making them unviable, like other weapon systems.
I use lights and sentries constantly,perfectly viable. Stop sucking :/
Thank you for one more totaly unqualified,unrelated and unnecessary comment. Please interwebs gief moAr. |
Maxx Phobos
3
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 06:38:00 -
[54] - Quote
I think the drone changes are more annoying than anything , I run Guristas missions mostly with Golem/CNR so maybe its because my drones are un bonused but I notice after killing all BS, BC's and Cruisers and let the drones out to finish off the small stuff half the time I lose one or nearly do before they can even reach a frig within 5-6k of me.. My drone skills are near max except ( Sentry , mining , ewar and gallente / caldari / Minni drone specializations at 4 )
Now I haven't flown a drone boat lately but I can imagine if they are having similar issues its about time they gave all elite frigs Defenders , damps and Jammers to give equal challenge to other weapons systems... I guess saying that i'm glad i don't use drones that often because I never liked the interface.. well and with distractions like Wife aggro and rampant kids running around my house I could never fully divert my attention to them. ( Uber tanked missile boats FTW ) . |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
951
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 06:57:00 -
[55] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Vincent Wright wrote:Consequences for me in PvE (solo L4s in Myrm) because of the NPC drone aggro changes:
Never use Scout Drones for what they are actually for: Frigs (Instead kill all the frigs with guns first and lose dps) Never use Medium Drones for what they are actually for: Cruisers and BCs (instead use scout drones and lose dps) Only use Heavy Drones when there are around 3 BS left and be careful. (use mediums instead, lose dps)
Sudden Drone aggro switches from ranges 50km-20km result in a lost drone and there is nothing you can do about that.
The People you wanted to hurt (afk mission runners/bots) use Centries and those are completely unaffected by the changes because they effin pop stuff from 100km away...
I will be in a Centry/Gun boat the next days, i just thought ill be nice to the other newer players that have to rely on everything but Centries and tell you what i experience.
It adds 0 to the gameplay, its basically just a giant nerf for pre centry pve droneboats. Wich wasnt nessesary since non droneboats in the same brackets dish out equal dps without drone transit times.
For null sec pvp gozus: Please i know you dont L4, you dont need it, dont comment on it. For "make the game harder" people: there is no workaround that isnt cutting dps. its not a difficulty issue. wtf is a centry
A hundred verses in Nostradamus' prophecies.
Vincent Wright wrote:Desudes wrote:Wrong ship/fit for the job at hand, simple as that. Drone aggro changes was needed, even if I don't like them... It makes drone boats have to pay attention without making them unviable, like other weapon systems.
I use lights and sentries constantly,perfectly viable. Stop sucking :/ Thank you for one more totaly unqualified,unrelated and unnecessary comment. Please interwebs gief moAr.
I use light drones and sentry drones all the time. Mediums and heavies generally suck but I can use them also. Train your support skills and pay attention. Drones are totally viable in PvE in their current state. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á |
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
476
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 17:23:00 -
[56] - Quote
Fit an ECM Burst II (or meta equivalent) to your ship, activate it as soon as you land in the mission.
Presto, like magic AI aggro suddenly works exactly how it used to before the changes.
Confirmed and tested to death a hundred thousand times.
Could cause bad things to happen in highsec .. dunno, I only pve in lowsec and i get an aggression timer if a burst the beacon so could maybe make concord do their thing? |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |