I don't know about you but I thought this update was spot-on on the upcoming expansion. Sheesh. What have I been paying for with my subscription money?

Relax, I'm sure if anything is OP it will be adjuste...












In 5 years (CCP years)

Regarding Game Design:

Passive Income Streams should be the mopst at-risk income stream to active player intervention. The more active you (the owner) are, the less at-risk your income stream should be. Fully active income streams in EVE are actually the most dangerous/risky way to isk, as death from other pilots is always a concern outside High-Sec.

So while I think people appreciate that POS management is hard, POS owners should also realize that it's a mostly passive activity. Unlike Plex'ing, Ratting, Exploration of PvP, POS Operation does not require a direct one-for-one injection of time/effort -> isk.

In my view, POS's and Planetary Interaction should be the most easy isk-streams to interupt, steal from, disturb, disrupt, etc. The counter is that game design should create elements where additional active work on that stream meaningfully reduces the risk posed to it if it was left purely passive.

I believe this design meets that challenge.

If you want full income from your POS, a Corporate/Alliance level asset, you'll need to monitor it yourself more actively, or encourage your Corp/Alliance to actively police the space in which it lives/operates POS's.

Clearly, the most at-risk POS's here will be those of AFK Empires and AFK players who pop in once to fuel, then pop out again. And thats as it should be.

All of these factors should result in smaller empires and more policed Nullsec Space, opening opportunitires for renters/new nullsec holder, and promoting more PvP conflict as Alliances work to defend their lived-in space from raiders.

Funny how certain entities are upset they will have to watch their POS, where they will actually have to worry about their profits now. I for one think it's a pleasant idea. Will be fun to deploy them just to mess with people. Cloaky ships, small m3... nice. Now it's the small corps chance to grief the larger entities in game

Given that we have a Like button, can we also have a 'This is just stupid' button as well?

Goons keep trying to say that this hurts them less than other small corps/alliances, I don't see how since the larger alliances are the biggest target for this they're the ones with moon goo and mining ops.. now that everyone can drop a siphon it's become a threat to.. well everyone.

Honestly I wouldn't worry about your cadmium or caesium moons. Running the numbers as they currently are, it would take 2+ days of operation just for a single siphon to break even. No one's going to bother, at least not after the initial rush to try the new Rubicon features wears off.

Siphoning dyspro moons, on the other hand, becomes profitable after a matter of hours. And that's on a per siphon basis, you can make a pretty considerable bank from siphoning a few dyspro moons for just under a day. With a handful of siphons on the right moons, you could easily clear a few hundred mil a day, and that assumes regular loss of siphon units.

It's been explained to you at least a dozen times that Goonswarm Federation and other very large entities have the manpower and the timezone coverage to both deploy siphons on enemy moons and monitor their own moons effectively for siphon activity, while smaller groups do not.

Please explain which part you don't understand yet.

And more like a patch than an expansion. They should have called it

EvE: Sorry We Are Working on other Projects.

Because you have plenty of empty conquered systems even now, larger alliances in null make them a much more rich target for siphons and disrupting low sec operations won't cause the prices to rise as much as disrupting the larger ones in null

i don't think anybody realistically thinks anything can dislodge the largest entities rusted into their blue donut, but tiny groups, even solo pilots will be able to mess with much larger organisations.
Tumultuous radical change is attractive to people without ideas, being able to pick a few holes in nullsec by interrupting stuff is a great idea. The fact that any idea can be abused and always benefits the already rich is incidental and not worth posting about.

Yeah okay I see why you don't understand now

[quote=Chopper Rollins]
So disrupting low operations raises prices more than disrupting larger, more profitable operations?

It's been explained to you at least a dozen times that Goonswarm Federation and other very large entities have the manpower and the timezone coverage to both deploy siphons on enemy moons and monitor their own moons effectively for siphon activity, while smaller groups do not.

Please explain which part you don't understand yet.

Actually, large alliances that get stolen from have their moongoo become more valuable by the fact that less moongoo can reach the market.

Surely no one would take advantage of that, though. Surely.

It's been explained to you at least a dozen times that Goonswarm Federation and other very large entities have the manpower and the timezone coverage to both deploy siphons on enemy moons and monitor their own moons effectively for siphon activity, while smaller groups do not.

Please explain which part you don't understand yet.

Outside of WiS lolcarna I've never seen such a negative response from the established entities in eve. Goons crying about siphons, PL crying about warp mechanics, this expansion is going to be grand.

Certainly makes it more attractive to siphon the more valuable and less abundant moon goo.

Have fun siphoning all the moons in eve.

There are what, thousands of null and lowsec systems with dozens of planets, most with multiple moons. There's a reason dyspro, neo, and prom are expensive, and the other dozen and a half are dirt cheap by comparison. You start siphoning cobalt, no one will give a rats ass because unoccupied cobalt moons are a dime a dozen. Have fun siphoning them all. Also, it will take days for your siphons just to break even. And you'll have to visit each and every single one every single day and replace them every so often. Not even Goons hate themselves that much, although please feel free to prove me wrong.

No one is going to do that, certainly not for cobalt moons and the like.

On the other hand, you make bank siphoning dyspro, neo, and prom in a a matter of hours.

Geee, I wonder which entities fought a war in a region with truckloads of dyspro moons recently, and which entity keeps shiptoasting in every single siphon thread. :tinfoil:

Certainly no one has accurate maps of every moon in Eve after the latest changes. Certainly not. That would be ridiculous.

Hold on. Let me check my Box of Care. Oh damn. Yeah it looks like it is empty. Sorry about that.

Goons: "We'll steal all your dirt!"
Everyone Else: "K mate, we'll just help ourselves to some of your gold."

Like I said, you can siphon all of the other moons in the game, as long as I can siphon your dispro, neo, and prom.

Which will not happen, I mean you can say it over and over again but fact is you wont.

You're wrong, as usual.

You're wrong, as usual.

I agree that Rubicon would be called a patch in any other mmo, only in EVE is called expansion for some weird reason.

But also I have to ask.. what's wrong in taking stuff from the rich and give it to people in need?! I thought that BoB attitude was bad. Anyway, many Brave people will be very happy in a couple of weeks....nom, nom.... shinnnnnyyyy!!1!

Like I said before.. the impact of these unit on any null sec alliance with a decent TZ coverage will be minimal.

Learn to read..

There will be no taking from the rich.

There will only be the rich getting richer and the small getting kicked in the balls

Yes, every alliance will have a 24/7/365 moon patrol that will watch each and every single one of their moons. Constant vigilance in every corner of the null bloc's space will be the word of the day.

Which will not happen, I mean you can say it over and over again but fact is it wont.

I think you should leave the question of "what's going to happen to moon mineral prices if the supply is disrupted by x amount" to the people who understand how moon minerals actually work. People like Mynnna and Aryth, for example.

oki, systems need to be traveled and mapped out, what makes you think its already not been done ?, most null systems ewen with valuable assets, IS empty, simply couse the big ones, if attacked, gets warning, muster fleet and respond... Now we face a new situation, these people need to activly , check their assets and the moons, they need to be patroled, checked, it will be hours upon hours of dread, i kind of piety those that have to do this, while people that have no assets can take a cloaked ship and just leave and check in once in awhile and see traffick, and when calm drop a siphon, the difrence is i know when i move, while those having to defend against it, have to make people do hours upon hours of boring work in empty space, the silence is a killer, so ya if its done, well then those people alot aint doing anything else, excpept patroling empty space, im sure they will be thrilled, and people like me in CAS, i have absolutly nothing to loose, we have no assets, and ewen if cought, with hand in sweet jar, well, so what, fun fight and a scrap bucket lost, its not like it cant be repalced anyway... BUT

what i dont get is, some of null and low sec people been crying to get more people out in null and low, isent this exactly what it does ?

Yes, every alliance will have a 24/7/365 moon patrol that will watch each and every single one of their moons. Constant vigilance in every corner of the null bloc's space will be the word of the day.

Which will not happen, I mean you can say it over and over again but fact is it wont.

Any chance of a few paragraphs?

I think you should leave the question of "what's going to happen to moon mineral prices if the supply is disrupted by x amount" to the people who understand how moon minerals actually work. People like Mynnna and Aryth, for example.

Christ a couple of guys in each TZ is going to be enough.

Yes, a couple of guys will keep track of all the moons in fountain alone. Yup. Mhmmm. I think we're done here.

Where are these fabled gold mines?

Yes, a couple of guys will keep track of all the moons worth siphoning in fountain alone. Yup. Mhmmm. I think we're done here.

Yes, a couple of guys will keep track of all the moons in fountain alone. Yup. Mhmmm. I think we're done here.

Quick question : what does the word " expansion " mean in Eve Online ?

It means every six months they change the log-in screen and music...


Oh wait, they stopped making log-in screens. I guess it was just too much effort.

I'm pretty sure it was like that every time since like 5 years ago already, don't see any reasons to act surprized.

It means every six months they change the log-in screen and music...


Oh wait, they stopped making log-in screens. I guess it was just too much effort.

Goons rumpflustered that they'll no longer be able to mine in peace in nullsec

story at 11

Goons rumpflustered that they'll no longer be able to mine in peace in nullsec

story at 11

Yet the goons will be the ones least effect by this change

That's just what goons want you to think

I hate the direction this game is going, Letme just mock it and invest more time into it and its forums.... Yeah that will solve everything.

Please explain why it will hurt the goons?

Quick question : what does the word " expansion " mean in Eve Online ?

Yet the goons will be the ones least effect by this change

Because we're saying it won't.

That's as far as plebian analysis goes - if a goon says 1+1=2, then it must be a lie, and involve Goon Tears and Goon Rage somehow.

iwe read carefully what you written, im a small player, i am just me, part of CAS, and fairly loosly organiced npc corporation thats bascially run like a player corporation, when i play, its rarely for maximum gain, or winning EvE, its about having FUN, i refine most ores and scrapmetal at 100%, and most scrap metal from highsec, gives me zydrine and megacyte, you probably laugh at this, but we are playing on totally difrent aspects and levels, i just contract all my minerals, and a few hours later, ill get a pay, i think last batch netted me around 700mil, peanuts for most of you null seccers, but in comparion to what we fly and what we loose, my isks pile up just fine

And this with siphons, give me the ability to go on a adventure to try steal some, it probably be very little, if id ewe succed, but it be something to do, and a mission in its own, ewen if i get blown up, it comes down to, like what most gankers does, its not about the isk, its about that i can, and this DO give me a way to harvest the tiny amounts we in CAS need of rare materials we cant otherwise get, that we have to buy, now we dont have to

If i am one of those that tinker like this, alot of other people will probably reason in the same way

Hey guys, See See Pee Random Goon here

Look, I may be in null sec but I do not have billions of isk.

Don't believe what a lot of people say on these forums that all people in null sec are rich because its all crap.

The siphon units will hurt people like you. People who are not trying to earn billions but a few hundred mill here and there.

Those small group of players who have a pos here and there in low sec will get hit hardest whilst those with pos's in null will just earn even more isk.

Sure you will go out and first and try and steal some moon goo, great, but after a while the novelty wears off and your just wasting isk you will stop, as will many other people.

All that will be left is those people who will fly around low sec griefing small corp pos owners.

These people will bring down there pos's but no new ones will go up as there will be no point.

That is my problem with the siphon units.

They do no damage to the null sec alliances and will only be used as griefing tool against the smaller corps in low sec.

The result will be less low sec moon mining pos's which in turns means more isk for the null sec alliances.

They hurt the small corps, the guys trying to make a few hundred mill here and there, not the big alliances which is what they seem to be aimed at.

I have a good friend who plays the game very much like you. He has a moon mining pos in low sec. He did the math and a couple of siphon units will completely destroy the small profit he makes from the tower.

Like he said, if he gets continuously hit he will just take it the pos down as it isn't worth the time and effort.

What do you think will happen to the high-value moons in lo-sec which are currently owned by 0.0 groups?

let me guess.... nothing?

What do you think will happen to the high-value moons in lo-sec which are currently owned by 0.0 groups?

Play the dam game, since you seem to have plenty of spare time, have fun and stop being negative.

They will possibly be siphoned all the time but lol doesn't matter anyway

Are they re-releasing Dam Busters? Awesome

it heavily depends of syphon price and how often POS owners (and all other low-sec dwellers) will kill it.

Accordingly to dev blog, CCP is aiming at 10 mil with their material cost, unless I'm reading the thing wrong.

i feel a little bit of sick in my mouth when i say this - but i am actually agreeing with a goon.. pass me the bucket..