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John McCreedy	Posted - 2006.02.06 21:52:00 - [1] Okey dokey, seeing as the forum police saw fit to lock the previous thread and seeing as this is still going on, I'm going to try this again There is a Courier Mission being set from Jita to K-9UG4. This mission carries a collaterol of 25 Mil ISK. Problem is, K-9UG4 is deep inside 0.0 and specifically Ascendant Frontier space. As with all 0.0 Alliances, ASCN space is closed to people who do not have a +5.0 standing with us or have arranged a travel pass. Furthermore, you have to have a +10.0 standing to dock. So what does this mean? Well let us assume for a moment you make it through the 40 odd jumps of 0.0 space, dodging the numerous Pirate Corps and Alliances, and also assuming you dodge the ASCN pilots who are under orders to shoot anyone without the above standings, you'll not be able to dock and will loose your 25 million ISK. You can see it listed here. You cannot complete this mission. It's a scam. Please avoid it, spread the word and do not give the greifer the satisfaction of relieving you of your hard earned cash. Disclaimer: I do not make the rules, so do not shoot the messenger. Make a Difference
Aidar Magnus	Posted - 2006.02.06 22:05:00 - [2] Sigh... This mission just happened to one of our corp members... poor guy went 58 jumps to be robbed of his 10 mil, and get blown up by ASCN patrol... ( this was resolved and deemed a mistake :) ) ASCN nice enough to refund him of the lost ISK, and escort out of 0.0 space. respect
Kylania	Posted - 2006.02.06 22:45:00 - [3] Why don't you just accept the mission yourself? Problem solved and no need to keep reposting locked threads. -- Lil Miner
Ras Blumin	Posted - 2006.02.06 23:18:00 - [4] Originally by: Kylania Why don't you just accept the mission yourself? Problem solved and no need to keep reposting locked threads. Coz the scammer will just make a new mission. p - l - u - r My first vid
Colette Reynard	Posted - 2006.02.07 01:19:00 - [5] Forgive my n00bish ignorance, please, but...two questions. Do you have any warning upon entering such space? Any chance to retreat un-obliterated? Is all or almost all 0.0 space under the control of such alliances?
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.07 01:25:00 - [6] Originally by: Colette Reynard Forgive my n00bish ignorance, please, but...two questions. Do you have any warning upon entering such space? Any chance to retreat un-obliterated? Is all or almost all 0.0 space under the control of such alliances? 1. Alliance Map 2. Of course you have warning--all 0.0 systems are unnamed and have names like PF-346. Your map can show sec statuses also. -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video. <3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.07 03:29:00 - [7] Of course, it wouldn't be a scam if the courier wasn't denied entry into your space and blown up by you... but let's not worry about those little details. "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
John McCreedy	Posted - 2006.02.07 23:14:00 - [8] Bump. Don't want you new guys loosing your 25 mill Make a Difference
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.07 23:25:00 - [9] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Of course, it wouldn't be a scam if the courier wasn't denied entry into your space and blown up by you... but let's not worry about those little details. Sure it would. They still would be unable to dock at the station. And don't expect them to let their enemies dock at their stations willy-nilly to resupply. -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video. <3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.08 03:45:00 - [10] I did mention the "denied entry" part, that kind of goes for the station, too. I don't expect them to allow their enemies to dock - I simply expect that people won't have this overly paranoid "everyone's my enemy!" attitude. Sure must be hard to keep a POS going if no one can use it... "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
Kamui Shiro	Posted - 2006.02.08 05:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Corunna ElMan I did mention the "denied entry" part, that kind of goes for the station, too. I don't expect them to allow their enemies to dock - I simply expect that people won't have this overly paranoid "everyone's my enemy!" attitude. Sure must be hard to keep a POS going if no one can use it... Spoken like a true newb on how things work in 0.0 space. Player owned POS's and stations are only to be used by the alliance or corp who built them and only those close trusted friends can be granted access. Only ISS and the neutral alliances will allow non-alligned and NPC corp member pilots dock in their stations. The general rule with most alliances is still NBSI(Not Blue Shoot It).
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.08 06:29:00 - [12] That's all well and good, but let's not for a moment pretend that these people have no choice, no part in the problem, and are trying to HELP noobies by blowing them up with a 25M collateral in the hold. Yes, the warning's good - but it doesn't solve the problem, and it sounds like a bunch of posturing to me. "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
Skidd Chung	Posted - 2006.02.08 07:56:00 - [13] Actually, posting a warning is the best they can do to be honest. And should be commended for it. Most people aren't even bothered by it, and will have no sorrow for you losing 25mil by being ignorant about the shady deal. If an alliance were to take these matters personnally and keeps claiming those 40 odd jumps routes to complete it to save the some newbie who doesn't know better the trouble of being scammed, the scammer would just keep making those scams available because it is so popular. For a 1mil cost as a reward and a possible 25mil profit if the courier gets blown up in 0.0 which is quite common, it's a good deal. So best is to inform others of it to educate them of the existance of such scams, and to totally avoid it. --------------------------------------------- War does not determine who is right, only who is left. - Russell Bertrand -
Talori'i	Posted - 2006.02.08 09:00:00 - [14] I wish there was a way to find the player(s) responsible for tricking new players or generally just players ignorant of this problem.
Chaoskeeper	Posted - 2006.02.08 13:26:00 - [15] well, just accept the mission and you'll see to whom the 25mil flow to
Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.02.08 14:32:00 - [16] Originally by: John McCreedy Bump. Don't want you new guys loosing your 25 mill I get 1 Million for doing it? Ah go on, let me accept it. Give me +10 standings and I'll split the 1 Million with you, and the scammer will be out of pocket.
Alexis DeTocqueville	Posted - 2006.02.08 14:37:00 - [17] Originally by: Kamui Shiro Only ISS and the neutral alliances will allow non-alligned and NPC corp member pilots dock in their stations. The general rule with most alliances is still NBSI(Not Blue Shoot It). And notice how well they're doing in terms of profits? You could take a hint, but that would be giving you too much credit intellectually.
Butter Dog	Posted - 2006.02.08 15:06:00 - [18] Originally by: Alexis DeTocqueville Originally by: Kamui Shiro Only ISS and the neutral alliances will allow non-alligned and NPC corp member pilots dock in their stations. The general rule with most alliances is still NBSI(Not Blue Shoot It). And notice how well they're doing in terms of profits? You could take a hint, but that would be giving you too much credit intellectually. They are perfectly entitled to run their space as they see fit. It is, after all, their space and they have gone to considerable lengths to secure it. When you and your corporation/alliance claim your own section of 0.0, you can also impose whatever access rights you see fit. Anyway, given that the OP is speaking from within an NBSI-driven alliance structure, there is little he can do apart from issue this friendly warning. He is not going to change the whole way his Alliance operates just because of a scam. ------------------ The viewpoints expressed are my own, not necessarily those of my Corporation or Alliance.
Malachon Draco	Posted - 2006.02.08 15:11:00 - [19] You can't expect an Alliance to change their policies for this. It could easily get exploited by other alliances for infiltration. Can't you make a blacklist somewhere for the worst offenders?
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.08 16:57:00 - [20] Originally by: Skidd Chung Actually, posting a warning is the best they can do to be honest. Actually, it's not. If they really want to show how powerful they are and how much they "care", they'd root out the scammers and take them down instead. But they honestly don't care - they aren't posting this warning out of the kindness of their hearts or their concern for fellow players, they're posturing. They're marking their territory and barking loud, but it's not with anyone else's interests in mind. "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.08 17:00:00 - [21] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Originally by: Skidd Chung Actually, posting a warning is the best they can do to be honest. Actually, it's not. If they really want to show how powerful they are and how much they "care", they'd root out the scammers and take them down instead. How do you expect them to get rid of an alt who stays in a station? Yelling loudly? -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video. <3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron
Butter Dog	Posted - 2006.02.08 17:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Originally by: Skidd Chung Actually, posting a warning is the best they can do to be honest. Actually, it's not. If they really want to show how powerful they are and how much they "care", they'd root out the scammers and take them down instead. But they honestly don't care - they aren't posting this warning out of the kindness of their hearts or their concern for fellow players, they're posturing. They're marking their territory and barking loud, but it's not with anyone else's interests in mind. Everyone knows their territory though, so why would they do that? Its already public information. Look at the Alliance rankings in-game, you will find ASCN at the top. We all know what space they claim, and that they operate an NBSI policy. New players dont though, so this well-intended warning is just that - a well intended warning. As if ASCN need to posture toward new players! LOL They are not going to change the way their Alliance is run just because of scammer, and they are perfectly entitled to run their claimed space however they wish. Don't like it? Then stop trolling the thread, get a fleet together, and invade. Good luck :p ------------------ The viewpoints expressed are my own, not necessarily those of my Corporation or Alliance.
Gerbil Intaki	Posted - 2006.02.08 17:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Corunna ElMan But they honestly don't care - they aren't posting this warning out of the kindness of their hearts or their concern for fellow players, they're posturing. They're marking their territory and barking loud, but it's not with anyone else's interests in mind. If they didnt care then they wouldnt have posted the warning (several times now)
Buxaroo	Posted - 2006.02.08 17:38:00 - [24] What I don't get is if you can accumulate 25 million isk and give it up for collateral why in the hell would you do a courier mission for only a million payout? If you got that kind of isk then yuo can certainly have the skills and ship to take on rats in belts and get that 1 mil payout in no time flat. I was thinking of doing some courier missions when I started out but when I saw how much collateral it took and how many jumps it took....well with no BM to destination you are wasting a LOT of time that could be spent mining or rat hunting to make isk. Helll, now that I can tank and kill 2x lord admirals in under 5-7 minutes and get 1.5 mil each not to mention the loot.....even if the courier mission paid out 10 million it would not be worth the time to do. Only if it is for my corp or freindlies would I do the missions but not for something like that. . . . "No matter where you go, there you are."
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.08 18:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Butter Dog Everyone knows their territory though, so why would they do that? Well, if "everyone" knows, then this thread is just pointless posturing, now isn't it? Quote: New players dont though, so this well-intended warning is just that - a well intended warning. I'd hardly call anyone who can afford to invest 25 MILLION in collateral for a 1M return a "new player". Newbies don't venture 25 million and they sure don't make long trade runs into 0.0 - anyone who does such things is no "newbie" in my book. Given those things, the only purpose the original post CAN serve is posturing. "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
Simon Jax	Posted - 2006.02.08 18:23:00 - [26] Edited by: Simon Jax on 08/02/2006 18:23:49 Anyone who is willing to put up 25 million for a 1 million payoff for a 20+ jump Courier mission into 0.0 space ... ... is a ****ing n00b. No matter how many ISK or SP that person has. 25 mil isn't really that hard to make. And 1mil quick payout is actually fairly attractive. But unless that trip is a few short jumps, or in Empire space, or can be done in a small, fast, well equipped vessel ... one would have to be rather dense to take it. So, given that such a person obviously has nary a clue how EVE works ... and no clue how 0.0 space works ... and has such poor math skills that a 3-hour trip for a 1 mil payout after putting down 25 mil sounds "lucrative" yield ... they damn well should be reading up on this forum and therefore it is not posturing. Why would they waste time rooting out the scammer? How would they even do it if said scammer just sits in station, and alt, fed isk or items to post the escrows and such (which takes 0 sp to speak of)? How does destroying n00b's effect them negatively? So, they post a friendly warning of a scam that some people have obviously been duped by. The "everybody knows ASCN" space thing is BS. I did't know what was ASCN space until John posted his message the first time. However, I also don't expect to fly through any Alliance's territory without significant risk. --Wherever you go, there you are.
Sapha	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:56:00 - [27] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Originally by: Butter Dog Everyone knows their territory though, so why would they do that? Well, if "everyone" knows, then this thread is just pointless posturing, now isn't it? Its not really posturing mate - In 0.0, because you can be shot by anyone at anytime it makes people less willing to trust anyone they dont know. When someone enters a system that is not "friendly" they need to be concidered hostile for one's own saftey and the safety of his mates. There are a lot of people who know this...these people are the ones who have been in 0.0 space before. People excepting the mission aren't noobs in that they are new to the game but new to 0.0 space and dont have the experience there. This post is to inform those who haven't the experience in that space. To put out a formal warning to all those who are thinking about accepting a mission that will more then likely end in their death and loss of cargo. S-A-P-H-A Oh God it burns!
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.08 19:56:00 - [28] Edited by: Corunna ElMan on 08/02/2006 19:57:12 Originally by: Simon Jax So, given that such a person obviously has nary a clue how EVE works ... and no clue how 0.0 space works ... and has such poor math skills that a 3-hour trip for a 1 mil payout after putting down 25 mil sounds "lucrative" yield ... they damn well should be reading up on this forum and therefore it is not posturing. If they're too effin' stupid to figure all that out, what makes you think they're going to read the forum or heed the message? Do you honestly think a post is going to sink into the brain of someone like that? "Some men, you jes' cain't reach..." "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
Kamui Shiro	Posted - 2006.02.09 02:41:00 - [29] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Originally by: Skidd Chung Actually, posting a warning is the best they can do to be honest. Actually, it's not. If they really want to show how powerful they are and how much they "care", they'd root out the scammers and take them down instead. But they honestly don't care - they aren't posting this warning out of the kindness of their hearts or their concern for fellow players, they're posturing. They're marking their territory and barking loud, but it's not with anyone else's interests in mind. Aww.. cmon go back to the noob bandwagon you came from. You have no idea on how things in 0.0 work. Or maybe you are the alt of the guy who makes these scam missions, that's why you are so hot about the issue. Come into the space of any other alliance be it BoB, G/IRON, RED, etc. and you will be shot on sight if you are not blue. After all you don't let just anybody into your territory. People claim space as their not to benefit anybody else but themselves and their alliance. You noobs can cry foul all you want but that fact still remains. Powerful alliances don't have the time to deal with coward scammers who don't really do any damage to alliance operations. Big alliances will focus on defending their area of space against all their enemies. As for the whole more profit issue for letting neutrals dock at player owned stations. That again is false. ISS does make money from people docking at their stations but do you see them building lots of stations and big powerful ships because of it? BoB, ASCN, Tribal souls, F-E, G/IRON, etc., can build all these stations and big ships faster than any neutral alliance can, because they have secure systems and devoted pilots. They don't need petty change from newbs that dock at stations. They make a lot more on their own.
Kamui Shiro	Posted - 2006.02.09 02:52:00 - [30] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Edited by: Corunna ElMan on 08/02/2006 19:57:12 Originally by: Simon Jax So, given that such a person obviously has nary a clue how EVE works ... and no clue how 0.0 space works ... and has such poor math skills that a 3-hour trip for a 1 mil payout after putting down 25 mil sounds "lucrative" yield ... they damn well should be reading up on this forum and therefore it is not posturing. If they're too effin' stupid to figure all that out, what makes you think they're going to read the forum or heed the message? Do you honestly think a post is going to sink into the brain of someone like that? "Some men, you jes' cain't reach..." Of coarse people don't think this post will solve the problem. Hell, the point is so clear to people who live in 0.0, that it's so obvious noobs like you will never understand, because your kind lives in an imaginary world where carebears collect flowers and sing songs all day. Instead of preaching like you can or know how to solve this problem, then try joining a 0.0 alliance and see for yourself how things are done there. I bet, you get podded and blown up within a week if you keep believing in your noobish views of the 0.0 side of the game.

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