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PMolkenthin	Posted - 2006.02.09 04:09:00 - [31] These kind of scams happen all the time. A couple of weeks ago, a noob corper flew down to 9CG (querious) in a Tristan, and announced his presence in local. Naturally I undocked and killed him, but after a brief convo, it turned out that he was on a player made courier mission and didnt know about the rules of 0.0 space. I felt bad and fixed up his wallet.
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.09 05:00:00 - [32] Originally by: Kamui Shiro Hell, the point is so clear to people who live in 0.0, that it's so obvious noobs like you will never understand. Noobs like ME? Hehe, buddy, I'M not the one still in RIN. Don't talk to me about alliances, you're only allied with NOOBS. And don't give me the "this is an alt" BS either, have the stones to post with your main if you've got a point to make. "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
Korant	Posted - 2006.02.09 08:41:00 - [33] speaking as one who is still a bit behind the learning curve, i definately do appreciate the helpful posts like this. frankly, anyone who believes they can fly freely in in alliance spce just cuz they are neutral is a n00b in the sense that they have not yet learned enough about how things work to stay out of trouble that is easily avoided with just a little freely available knowledge. perhaps the troll is behind such a scam and this warning cuts into his cash cow's belly. jus sayin...
Wotar	Posted - 2006.02.09 10:07:00 - [34] Quote: But they honestly don't care - they aren't posting this warning out of the kindness of their hearts or their concern for fellow players, they're posturing. They're marking their territory and barking loud, but it's not with anyone else's interests in mind. One of the most clueless things I've ever read on this forum, and that's really saying something.
Butter Dog	Posted - 2006.02.09 11:01:00 - [35] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Originally by: Butter Dog Everyone knows their territory though, so why would they do that? Well, if "everyone" knows, then this thread is just pointless posturing, now isn't it? Quote: New players dont though, so this well-intended warning is just that - a well intended warning. I'd hardly call anyone who can afford to invest 25 MILLION in collateral for a 1M return a "new player". Newbies don't venture 25 million and they sure don't make long trade runs into 0.0 - anyone who does such things is no "newbie" in my book. Given those things, the only purpose the original post CAN serve is posturing. To be honest with you, you're just a pointless forum troll who has contributed nothing to this thread. If you have a problem with ASCN or "posturing" as you put it, put a fleet together and claim their space for yourself. You can then impose whatever access rights you wish. Until then, its painfully obvious you don't have a clue how 0.0 actually works, so your best course of action to save yourself looking supremely inept would be to STFU. ------------------ The viewpoints expressed are my own, not necessarily those of my Corporation or Alliance.
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.09 13:47:00 - [36] You're still missing the point - so don't lecture me on intellectual aptitude. I don't want to take them out or even dictate how they run their affairs - but if you think they're doing this to "help" noobs, ask yourself how... blowing up noobs with 25M collateral in their holds doesn't help them. "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
Dark Shikari	Posted - 2006.02.09 13:55:00 - [37] Originally by: Corunna ElMan You're still missing the point - so don't lecture me on intellectual aptitude. I don't want to take them out or even dictate how they run their affairs - but if you think they're doing this to "help" noobs, ask yourself how... blowing up noobs with 25M collateral in their holds doesn't help them. They don't have 25 million collateral. They have something worth a few ISK. The noobs can't dock at the station, and thus it is impossible to regain the ISK in the first place. -- Proud member of the [23]. The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video. <3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron
Butter Dog	Posted - 2006.02.09 14:09:00 - [38] Originally by: Corunna ElMan I don't want to take them out or even dictate how they run their affairs - but if you think they're doing this to "help" noobs, ask yourself how... blowing up noobs with 25M collateral in their holds doesn't help them. Apart from the fact almost everything you have said here is based on ignorance and incorrect assumptions, it is meant to help new players by warning them not to fall for the scam in the first place. And, as some have already posted, they have heard the warning and are thankful for it. End of. ------------------ The viewpoints expressed are my own, not necessarily those of my Corporation or Alliance.
Kamui Shiro	Posted - 2006.02.09 15:20:00 - [39] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Originally by: Kamui Shiro Hell, the point is so clear to people who live in 0.0, that it's so obvious noobs like you will never understand. Noobs like ME? Hehe, buddy, I'M not the one still in RIN. Don't talk to me about alliances, you're only allied with NOOBS. And don't give me the "this is an alt" BS either, have the stones to post with your main if you've got a point to make. You are right I am posting with an alt, simply because our alliance has strict rules against posting in these forums and your ignorance isn't worth me posting with my main. Everyone else here who has lived and played in 0.0 space for at least a month knows the only real ignorant noob here is you. Got a problem with ASCN or any other 0.0 alliance, then come down to their space and have a chat with them. Im sure alot of them who have read this thread and seen your ignorant replies are dieing to pod you hehe
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.10 02:51:00 - [40] Originally by: Kamui Shiro Everyone else here who has lived and played in 0.0 space for at least a month knows the only real ignorant noob here is you. Whatever, Mister RIN. All I know is what can be proven - that being, you're in RIN, a noob corp and not part of any alliance. Feel free to prove me wrong, but until then I have to laugh at you calling anyone else a noob. "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.10 02:55:00 - [41] Originally by: Butter Dog Apart from the fact almost everything you have said here is based on ignorance and incorrect assumptions, it is meant to help new players by warning them not to fall for the scam in the first place. My conclusions are sound: 1) Blowing up noobs doesn't help them. 2) Noobs don't have 25 Million ISK to invest in a 40-jump trade run into 0.0 space. Given those facts, the people they claim to be warning and looking out for would never find themselves in such a situation. The only people who would be in that situation are fools who aren't going to heed the warning, either. Don't tell me for a moment that any of the people who were thankful for the warning had actually even considered doing such a run - and if they did, maybe you should be directing your ridicule to them. End of, indeed. "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
Aquas	Posted - 2006.02.10 03:25:00 - [42] I really wish CCP would take a more active stance on these scams. I mean as a new player I find it pretty silly that I cannot even take a player courier mission out of fear that it'll be a scam. It's pretty sad when the basic advice given by everyone is, "Don't take any courier missions from escrow." Basically you have a game feature that the majority of your player base, or at least your new player base is afraid to use. As it stands I don't see myself ever doing any of those missions simply b/c it would be worth the risk of beind duped by some clown and from what I can tell CCP doesn't even care. I've never seen the slightest mention that they do anything about people who scam via the escrow missions. Even the mods in-game just tell you it's better to not do them, what's that crap.
Bast Meskhenet	Posted - 2006.02.10 03:35:00 - [43] To speak the honest truth, I had no idea 0.0 was K.O.S. to people not in an alliance before reading these warning threads. Or that a neutral party can't dock at owned stations. If anything came of these posts, one newbie was partially enlightened on the workings of the game -- which I something I'm always thankful for. Not that I'd be the one silly enough to pony up 25 million for a 1 million reward located beyond a rediculous gauntlet of pirate-infested space, but still.
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.10 04:10:00 - [44] Originally by: Aquas I really wish CCP would take a more active stance on these scams. It's not that CCP doesn't care - it's that they expect you to educate yourself and read up a little. Much like escrow scammers - yes, they are scum, but nothing prevents the buyer from examining the item before paying. People who are inclined to buy sight unseen should be parted from their money anyhow, as they are clearly not responsible enough to use it properly... "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.10 04:19:00 - [45] Originally by: Korant perhaps the troll is behind such a scam and this warning cuts into his cash cow's belly. Were you referring to me? Ask yourself - who would stand to gain the most from such a scam - the people who blow up the courier, or the guy who has constantly been saying "maybe you need to stop attacking the couriers and go after the people generating the missions"? You're right, you are still a bit behind the learning curve, if you can't put that together in your head. A "helpful" post would have been simply to state the facts: Neutrals in alliance space are KOS; it's a bad idea to take a courier mission with such a high collateral for such a low payout, over such a long trip in any lowsec space, etc. The previous thread on this was locked, and the moderator made it clear that the tone of the original poster was the reason the message was poorly recieved. So the OP created a new thread and said the same damn thing again. "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
Kamui Shiro	Posted - 2006.02.10 06:12:00 - [46] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Ask yourself - who would stand to gain the most from such a scam - the people who blow up the courier, or the guy who has constantly been saying "maybe you need to stop attacking the couriers and go after the people generating the missions"? OMG another ignorant remark from, THE NOOB! Keep em coming now. The alliance pilots have nothing to gain from blowing up the couriers simply because they get nothing out of them but wasted ammo. The only one that makes money is the scammer/s who makes these missions. And alliances have better things to do than play cop and hunt down scammers, but since you don't have any idea on what happens in 0.0 space then you wouldn't know that now would you. You can mouth all you want about catching the scammer and everything but since you are the one advocating it, then why not accept one of those courier missions and see if you can catch the scammer then? All you do is criticize the OP of this thread and other 0.0 alliances with an NBSI policy. The author of this thread did a good thing by warning newbies about this kind of scams in eve. Now its up to the newbs to heed the warning. If they don't, then there's gonna be one happy scammer around.
Koranht	Posted - 2006.02.10 06:22:00 - [47] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Originally by: Korant perhaps the troll is behind such a scam and this warning cuts into his cash cow's belly. Were you referring to me? (#1)Ask yourself - who would stand to gain the most from such a scam - the people who blow up the courier, or the guy who has constantly been saying "maybe you need to stop attacking the couriers and go after the people generating the missions"? (#2)You're right, you are still a bit behind the learning curve, if you can't put that together in your head. A "helpful" post would have been simply to state the facts: Neutrals in alliance space are KOS; it's a bad idea to take a courier mission with such a high collateral for such a low payout, over such a long trip in any lowsec space, etc. The previous thread on this was locked, and the moderator made it clear that the tone of the original poster was the reason the message was poorly recieved. So the OP created a new thread and said the same damn thing again. as to (#1) i believe the mission creator would have the most to gain. the collateral is what is turned over to the mission creator to keep in case you cannot complete the mission on time or run off with the goods. you do know what collateral is, right. it is not what the mission taker carries around in his/her cargo hold. as to (#2) i say that i am behind the curve because i have not fully caught up on the ever changing political things going on in alliance space. what i have done is: 1) regularly check the alliance and corp forums to see what the chatter is about regarding hostilities, war zones, and alliance characteristics; 2) checked out the alliance url's that are avail to see how they run things in their territories (like, who will be shot on sight, etc.); 3) started checking out corp url's for those corps in major alliances to see what their individual poilicies are. some of what i have learned: not all 0.0 space is alliance territory; 0.0 space that is not alliance controlled is likely to have a lot of pirate activity - expect to be fired upon; alliances that have NBSI policies do not take kindly to uninvited guests - expect to be podded; scam artists are out there, so 'pilot beware'; before going to some unknown destination or travelling along some unknown route, check ship and pod kills on the map, whose territory you will be travelling thru, etc., to know what you're getting into; just because someone is in a starter corp, that is no reason to conclude that they know nothing about the game - i have met experts who simply choose to stay in their starter corp; you are a n00b in the sense that you know not of what you speak regarding the helpfulness of this and other threads like it where the experienced players provide tips and advice for those who do not know, but have enough going on upstairs to check the game forums for help before getting podded due to ignorance. cheers... btw, i unintentionally posted with Korant previously instead of Koranht since my forum setting seem to have not been saved correctly last time. ================== Koranht
Tom Tarn	Posted - 2006.02.10 08:13:00 - [48] Having read all the posts on this thread and others that are similar, I have been somewhat educated on 0.0 space and CCP policy regarding scams and shady practices ingame. As far as I can gather, ingame, anything goes. The scammer is just role playing the Con Artist really - tricking the unwary into handing over lots of ISK for little or no return - making ISK off other peoples ignorance. In a case like this, for such a great deal of collateral would it not be better for the person taking the mission to find out exactly where they are going and what they will be carrying? Is the thing they are carrying worth 25M ISK? If it is not remotely worth this then why such a large collateral? Smell something fishy yet! I thank the OP for the warning and personally will look at courier missions very carefully before parting with my hard earned ISK. - This time next year we'll be billionaires.
Eternal Fury	Posted - 2006.02.10 09:27:00 - [49] Well, I can say this folks. I am a noob, and just today I was looking at one of those delivery missions. So at the very least, i thank you for letting me know. it may not have gone to your area, but it would have been to someones and most likely it would have been killed. I doubt my little destroyer can hold up to much. Least I should have my Cruiser by tommorrow. :) And that map of the 0.0 zones and who controls them was very helpful. thanks to whoever posted it. Also, I've learned a bit more about the setup. I didn't realise it was a shootfirst/ask questions later in the 0.0 zones. I assumed that if you guys who've been playing for a year or two saw a small ship(frigate or my little destroyer) that you might ask if I was lost or somethign. Didn't know you'd shoot on sight. Now I do. i'll cower for a month or 3 till i can take a hit or two while I run :) -------------------------------- -I hope that's an exhaust port and not a weapons port. -Uhm dude, I dont' think it'll make a difference either way.
Butter Dog	Posted - 2006.02.10 09:35:00 - [50] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Originally by: Butter Dog Apart from the fact almost everything you have said here is based on ignorance and incorrect assumptions, it is meant to help new players by warning them not to fall for the scam in the first place. My conclusions are sound: 1) Blowing up noobs doesn't help them. 2) Noobs don't have 25 Million ISK to invest in a 40-jump trade run into 0.0 space. 1) Warning them to prevent them getting blown up does. They are not going to change their Alliance policies because of an alt scammer. 2) Wrong - noobs can earn quite easily earn 2m an hour mining Omber in a basic cruiser in a 0.7. Does 13 hours of play time in 0.7 make them a hardy veteran? Hardly. ------------------ The viewpoints expressed are my own, not necessarily those of my Corporation or Alliance.
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.10 13:43:00 - [51] Quote: 1) Warning them to prevent them getting blown up does. They are not going to change their Alliance policies because of an alt scammer. They're not warning NOOBS, fool. Noobs aren't doing these missions! Quote: 2) Wrong - noobs can earn quite easily earn 2m an hour mining Omber in a basic cruiser in a 0.7. You can get lucky with loot drops, as I did when I was new. Does 13 hours of play time in 0.7 make them a hardy veteran? Of course not. Maybe 25m ISK is hard for you to come by, but then judging from your posts you don't have the first clue how the game really works. I'll tell you one thing - I didn't make all my mon ey by doing 40-jump trade runs into 0.0 space with 25M of collateral in my hold. I'm doing fine in the game - your stubborn refusal to understand what I'm saying doesn't change my level of enjoyment. You know what's really embarrassing? Your inability to understand the basic truth that this warning is not reaching its intended audience. I'm not the reason the original thread was locked, so you might want to ask yourself if I'm the only one who disagrees with the OP. "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.10 13:46:00 - [52] Originally by: Kamui Shiro The alliance pilots have nothing to gain from blowing up the couriers simply because they get nothing out of them but wasted ammo. The only one that makes money is the scammer/s who makes these missions. Who's to say it's not a member of their alliance? Great way to make money - bait people into your space and kill them, make 25M, repeat. Unlikely but surely more likely than trying to make it sound like the one who's criticizing the original post is behind it. I'm not even against their policy - I'm against their needless bluster. It's like a dog p!ssing on trees to mark his territory and barking at bypassers. "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
Kamui Shiro	Posted - 2006.02.10 14:28:00 - [53] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Originally by: Kamui Shiro The alliance pilots have nothing to gain from blowing up the couriers simply because they get nothing out of them but wasted ammo. The only one that makes money is the scammer/s who makes these missions. Who's to say it's not a member of their alliance? Great way to make money - bait people into your space and kill them, make 25M, repeat. Unlikely but surely more likely than trying to make it sound like the one who's criticizing the original post is behind it. I'm not even against their policy - I'm against their needless bluster. It's like a dog p!ssing on trees to mark his territory and barking at bypassers. /me will ignore THE NOOB that is named Corunna ElMan after this last post as he just doesn't understand at all. I shall leave you to play with all the fairy's and carebears while you sing songs in your own private world. Every alliance that has read your remarks doesn't agree with you, so that in itself proves you are blowing out nothing but hot air. So basically you want the group who made this thread to stop warning people and just shut up and do something about the scammer. You said the post wasn't reaching its intended target. WOW! what a great idea that is! So all people stop giving out warnings to newbs about scammers, etc. on these forums. I bet if alliances and other players stopped giving warnings then the scammer will really be happy. And didn't we already say that catching these scammers is too much work for alliances that have more important things to do? Oh wait, your head was to thick for the info to get through. When i was a newb that started playing this game i relied on more experienced players in the NPC corps and these forums to get a feel for the game. I'm sure a lot of other newbs now do the same thing. Any person who accepts a courier mission, escrow, etc. without investigating if its legit first, is a newb in my book. I have yet to fall victim to scammers in this game, and i have the kind players/groups who give out warnings about the scams to thank for it. It doesn't matter if a guy has 50 mill+ in isk. Hell, I had 130 mill in 1.5 months of playing this game and i was still a newb.
Incident	Posted - 2006.02.10 14:45:00 - [54] Originally by: Corunna ElMan Originally by: Kamui Shiro The alliance pilots have nothing to gain from blowing up the couriers simply because they get nothing out of them but wasted ammo. The only one that makes money is the scammer/s who makes these missions. Who's to say it's not a member of their alliance? Great way to make money - bait people into your space and kill them, make 25M, repeat. Unlikely but surely more likely than trying to make it sound like the one who's criticizing the original post is behind it. I'm not even against their policy - I'm against their needless bluster. It's like a dog p!ssing on trees to mark his territory and barking at bypassers. Being here for only a month and don't claim to know anything about .0 but isnt that what borders are "territory" and for the "barking at bypassers" who is to say these "bypassers" are noobs they could alts trying to spy. There is only do or do not, there is no try.
AfterShock	Posted - 2006.02.10 19:37:00 - [55] Let's just simplify this to stop the troll(s) The OP is warning Eve players in general to not fall for this scam by accepting and attempting to deliver any courier mission originating outside of an alliance controlled region with a delivery point into an alliance controlled region.
Doctor Shady	Posted - 2006.02.11 01:58:00 - [56] HI MA, but in another locked Thread. GUYS SImple keep out, or get killed. now go back to WoW
Corunna ElMan	Posted - 2006.02.11 03:40:00 - [57] Originally by: Kamui Shiro /me will ignore THE NOOB that is named Corunna ElMan after this last post as he just doesn't understand at all. I shall leave you to play with all the fairy's and carebears while you sing songs in your own private world. Like your friends in RIN? Quote: And didn't we already say that catching these scammers is too much work for alliances that have more important things to do? Such as... killing noobs? Wow, that's really important work. Gotta pod those noobs, because we care about the community! Quote: When i was a newb that started playing this game i relied on more experienced players in the NPC corps and these forums to get a feel for the game. I'm sure a lot of other newbs now do the same thing. Hell, I had 130 mill in 1.5 months of playing this game and i was still a newb. You're still in RIN, you're STILL a newb. "Don't see much point getting involved in other people's troubles without an up-front price negotiation."
Death's Puppet	Posted - 2006.02.13 09:14:00 - [58] How do u no it wasnt a legit thing? maby someone wanted something out at there 0.0 base, and was hoping someone elce in the alliance would get and bring it,... not reasearching your mission / trade is stupid and going to 0.0 without knowing what the go with agression and acess is is also lame,.... i really think some people have to think outside the box, yeah it sounds like a scamm 25mill colateral for 1 mill reward, but if you were going that way anyway... and new u had acess its an ok thing isnt it?
Jaddor	Posted - 2006.02.13 14:50:00 - [59] Here is my question. Who is stupid enough to fall for these? Its game darwinism at its best. The ONLY way you do these kinda missions is if you... #1 Never read the forums. #2 Never read the player guide. #3 Never played a pvp game. #4 Have no idea that time = money, since the number of jumps vrs the pay out is insanely low. I know noobs are still doing this, and not all of them are 25 million collateral (some of the scams are running about 1 mill) but jebus, its not rocket science. Its one thing being a noob, but its another thing being stupid.
Buxaroo	Posted - 2006.02.13 19:26:00 - [60] Edited by: Buxaroo on 13/02/2006 19:26:21 Originally by: Jaddor Here is my question. Who is stupid enough to fall for these? Its game darwinism at its best. The ONLY way you do these kinda missions is if you... #1 Never read the forums. #2 Never read the player guide. #3 Never played a pvp game. #4 Have no idea that time = money, since the number of jumps vrs the pay out is insanely low. I know noobs are still doing this, and not all of them are 25 million collateral (some of the scams are running about 1 mill) but jebus, its not rocket science. Its one thing being a noob, but its another thing being stupid. Thank you. Exactly. Why should CCP waste its time trying to get rid of this problem when it is not a problem per game mechanic only stupidity of players? Darwinism at its best. This is an adult game played in the "corporation" mode gamestyle. Not carebear. Not EQ2. Not Final Fantasy @#$$!!. Just educate yourself and get a clue. If you cannot survive simple scams like this then you don't need to be playing this. Same thing about escrow....EXAMINE MERCHANDICE before buying it. If you don't.....then good riddance. . . . "No matter where you go, there you are."

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